The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Clay on February 24, 2007, 02:23:57 am



Title: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 24, 2007, 02:23:57 am
Before I start, I want to say I'm fully aware of previous attempts at both of the games in the subject.  Although I haven't seen links to any one in a year or two, I do know they exist and not trying to say they don't.

It's not a surprise that I love Star Control.  I think you don't frequent this forum unless you do.  I've tried to figure out for a very long time how I can contribute to this great game and its universe.

Some of you may remember me from the Graphic Enhancement threads.  *wave*  That was my first attempt at it.  I soon figured out that it was pretty pointless.  Enhanced graphics are far down the line, and even when they come, could be handled by people far better than me.

I left the forums for a while, came back and lurked once 6.0 came out, and it has entered my mind once again.

Then it hit me.  If you do a little probing, you'll find out I'm Clay Gardner.  I wrote and published OVA: The Open Versatile Anime RPG.  It has sold somewhere short of a thousand copies and has been regularly praised in the pen and paper RPG community.

I have the resources, and the business experience, to create and publish a Star Control RPG.  The more I think about it, the more it excites me.

However, publishing an RPG for money (which I would like to do to recover costs for printing and artwork) is obviously outside the TFB's generous "you can create whatever fan works you want" attitude.

My question is...what would be the best way to approach such a concept to TFB?  Or should I not even consider it at all?  And heck, is there even interest among the (admittedly small) SC2 community?

Congrats on 6.0 devteam.  It's nice to finally have netplay.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 24, 2007, 03:15:35 am
yay Clay isn't dead :D

Personally, I would love something like this. Like you said, though, it's kind of a niche game, so you might have some trouble getting it published.

Not sure how you could go about contacting TFB, are they even active on the internet anymore?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 24, 2007, 03:18:40 am
Publishing it would not be a problem.  I'd publish it myself. ^_^  Part of the reason making it a "freebie" project isn't completely plausible.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: meep-eep on February 24, 2007, 04:51:11 am
I have no experience in any of this, so keep that in mind when you read the below.

If you're going for a commercial game, I guess your goal will be an agreement on paper. Which probably means that eventually you'll need to get lawyers involved, which means costs for both of you. Even if you do not intend to make a profit, they will want to see their costs for this recovered.

Regardless of whether you'll be making any money, this license burdens their copyrights. Even for a non-exclusive agreement, this license being issued affects future license negotiations (what if someone else wants to make a game like this?). So count on paying some royalties, even if you donate any profits to charity.

They may also want to have some creative control. They may want to have some say in how you treat their universe. Though considering that SC3 is already out there, this may not be a big issue.
If it is, that's probably a good sign for SC fans, as that suggests a TFB-made sequel is in the making. In this case, there will be a whole new set of challenges and opportunities anyhow (involvement of Activision? Simultaneous marketing? Including new species in your game?).

As for how to approach them, I'd say just call them. You'll want to talk to Paul Reiche; he's in charge of the business side of TFB. Email or snail mail would work too, but telephone is more personal, and as they aren't very formal people, that seems like the way to go.
Tell them that you have prior experience with publishing a pen-and-paper RPG commercially, so they know you're not just some random fan with a wild idea wasting their time. That said, I don't think that there's any harm in mentioning that you're a fan. It makes your motive clear, and it suggests that you are dedicated to this project.
If they're open to the idea of you licensing their SC universe for a pen-and-paper RPG, you can then talk about royalties, the duration of the license, creative control, and whether or not you want exclusive rights. The details are probably best left for email. They will want to talk it over and/or think about it anyhow.

How would you be distributing the game? Order from a website?

As for interest among the SC community, I don't think your chances are good. Your audience isn't "SC2 fans", it's "SC2 fans who are interested in pen-and-paper RPGs and known enough other interested people in person". If TFB are actually working on a new SC, your chances are better.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 24, 2007, 06:34:20 pm
Thanks for weighing in, meep-eep!

I'm fully aware royalties would be involved.  Fetching lawyers to fetter the documentation would however be sufficient deterrent to apply my time elsewhere. haha.

Initial distribution would be through a website, PDF copies through RPGnow.com/drivethrurpg.com (the stores that carry OVA) and print copies through the one-up site lulu.com, as well as the previous sites.  If it didn't completely bomb, I would then make efforts to put it into distribution.  (ie. hobby/comic/RPG stores would carry it/can order it, again like OVA).

I don't have the funds or, let's be honest, the potential for sales, to produce an honest to goodness boardgame with pieces and a nice snazzy cardboard box.  Just a book, with maybe some cardstock templates for ships.  But if it did well as a book, there's always the possibility of interesting a fantasy/sci-fi boardgame manufacturer, like Fantasy Flight, to pick it up.  More legal wrangling, yay!

In the end, I realize this project will, if it's lucky, break even.  I hope the fact that I'm not trying to "cash-in" would help my case with Paul.  ;D  And I'd want to be as true to the franchise and source material as possible, so I'm hoping creative clashings will be nonexistent.  I'm still debating a full-fledged RPG at all.  SC has always been about ships and war, not derring do with blaster pistols.   If there is an RPG component, it will be severely dummied down with a focus on narrative.

But I'm also prone to flights of fancy.  I have existing projects to attend to (including supplements to OVA) so it's always possible I'll fizzle out on the whole idea.  I'll probably make a draft of the game before approaching TFB.  I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed a statement somewhere where TFB is directly against this sort of thing. :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on February 24, 2007, 07:06:56 pm
"Just off the top of my beak", as the Pkunk say - how about a collectable card game "Melee" as an add-on? :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 24, 2007, 07:56:52 pm
  I'm still debating a full-fledged RPG at all.  SC has always been about ships and war, not derring do with blaster pistols.   If there is an RPG component, it will be severely dummied down with a focus on narrative.
Yeah, SC doesn't really lend itself to running around on foot and blasting monsters like most RPGs. Like Spektrowski said, a card game (collectible or not) would be fun, and probably easier to make then a board game. Star Chamber (http://starchamber.station.sony.com/) sounds like a good example of what I'm talking about, although I haven't tried much of it myself.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on February 24, 2007, 08:33:09 pm
ZOMG, you got the Fwiffo card? You're so lucky!!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on February 24, 2007, 08:35:45 pm
And for RPG elements, I think a game may be based on starship crews and dedicated to space adventures mostly.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 24, 2007, 08:39:24 pm
CCGs have several marks against them.

1) They're expensive to produce, and a "Print it yourself" mentality doesn't work quite as well for card games (that require precisely trimmed "decks" to function authentically) as it does for game tokens. It's also common practice to give every card its unique illustration.  For a game with 100 cards or more...that becomes quite a bill quite fast.

2) More importantly, Wizards of the Coast (Magic: The Gathering, D&D) patented the CCG some time ago.  Although it's an ambiguous patent at best, I'm not willing to attract the ire of their lawyers, nor am I willing to look into what exorbitant fee they would charge for licensing the CCG mechanic.

But...if you leave the "collectable" component out, it's a potential idea.  But even at that, mechanics like "tapping" for "energy" is still in the legal grey area.  But there are many ways to approach the card game idea...perhaps even in conjuction with a board game.  It's something I haven't considered at all.  Thanks for the input!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on February 24, 2007, 08:48:09 pm
It's also common practice to give every card its unique illustration.  For a game with 100 cards or more...that becomes quite a bill quite fast.

I think it would be cool to illustrate the cards with the graphics from SC2, all pixelated and everything. ;)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: youBastrd on February 24, 2007, 11:12:24 pm
Do it.  Just do it.  Your game can only be successful if you try it.  If you don't try it, it can't be successful, right? 

Be your own best supporter.  Slap that little voice in your head that says, "No."  Do it before you can come up with a reason not to.  Don't worry about patents, stepping on someone's toes, being rejected by something or another.  If you go the commercial route, it becomes the next Monopoly, or maybe Richard Garfield will try to buy out your company.  If you go the open community approach, maybe you get thousands or tens of thousands more players and reconition than you had on your last game.  :)

(there are more elegant quotes to this effect but I don't remember them offhand)

It's in TFB's best interest to have Star Control stuff out there because it strengthens their brand.  When they finally release a game, someone's got to buy it.  The more buzz there is, the more copies it sells. 

Best of luck!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Neonlare on February 24, 2007, 11:13:45 pm
Same from me, Good Luck dude!

If you need any help with designs for Cards, etc, just PM me, or post, I can always lend a helping hand :D.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 25, 2007, 03:22:52 am
CCGs have several marks against them.

1) They're expensive to produce, and a "Print it yourself" mentality doesn't work quite as well for card games (that require precisely trimmed "decks" to function authentically) as it does for game tokens. It's also common practice to give every card its unique illustration.  For a game with 100 cards or more...that becomes quite a bill quite fast.

2) More importantly, Wizards of the Coast (Magic: The Gathering, D&D) patented the CCG some time ago.  Although it's an ambiguous patent at best, I'm not willing to attract the ire of their lawyers, nor am I willing to look into what exorbitant fee they would charge for licensing the CCG mechanic.

But...if you leave the "collectable" component out, it's a potential idea.  But even at that, mechanics like "tapping" for "energy" is still in the legal grey area.  But there are many ways to approach the card game idea...perhaps even in conjuction with a board game.  It's something I haven't considered at all.  Thanks for the input!
 
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan off CCGs anyway. A non-collectable card game could definatly work, though. Plus, it might be more accessible to new players, since unlike an RPG, you don't have to know the backstory behind the game to play.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 25, 2007, 05:11:04 am
Yeah, for now I'm focusing on a tactical boardgame, but unlike its peers (games like Battletech and Silent Death) I'm attempting to make it play as fast as possible and lose as little of the excitement of the melee game as possible.  I will expand on that with a strategic map game (reminiscent of Star Control I).  After all that, I may look again at RPG mechanics.

I've hit  a bit of a speed bump though.  While statting the ships (using much simpler numbers than the actual game.  An Ur-Quan Dreadnought has 10 CREW and BATTERY for instance) I've found it difficult to ascertain the fuel recharge rates.  A helpful FAQ over at gamefaqs has simplified determining relative speeds and turn rates, but covers fuel regeneration oddly.  It rates each ship based on how quickly the ship returns to full capacity.  This is pretty useless for my purposes.

Does anyone know how I can get figures for recharge rates without actually timing them myself in Super Melee?

Also: Any objections to using polyhedral dice?  I have a 5 step system I'm liking, but it requires a full range...a d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12.  (d# referring to the number of sides of the die).


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on February 25, 2007, 05:29:57 am
I've never played and RPG/Board game such as this, so I'm kinda confused as to how it would work?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 25, 2007, 06:17:56 am
Ever play Final Fantasy Tactics/Disgaea/Fire Emblem or similar titles? Those games are loosely inspired by the same boardgame genre.

If not, you basically have a map.  This map is divided into spaces, usually hexagons.  You place tokens/miniatures on the map to indicate units.  (in the case of this game, spaceships)  Depending on the rules, players take turns moving their ships around the map, and each turn may declare attacks (or other actions) on other units in range.  Last ship standing wins.

It's more complex than that, but I hope you'll give me the time to draft some rules for details. ^_^


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on February 25, 2007, 09:00:47 am
Maybe, this page (http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sc2/shipspecs/) can provide some help on ship specs?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: meep-eep on February 25, 2007, 09:09:17 am
I'm fully aware royalties would be involved.  Fetching lawyers to fetter the documentation would however be sufficient deterrent to apply my time elsewhere. haha.
Well, you could try writing the contract yourself. I'm sure you'll be able to find some examples online. As for TFB, well... worth a try. I think TFB wrote the original contract with the SC2 musicians themselves, including some humourously phrased clauses.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: meep-eep on February 25, 2007, 09:26:56 am
I've hit  a bit of a speed bump though.  While statting the ships (using much simpler numbers than the actual game.  An Ur-Quan Dreadnought has 10 CREW and BATTERY for instance) I've found it difficult to ascertain the fuel recharge rates.  A helpful FAQ over at gamefaqs has simplified determining relative speeds and turn rates, but covers fuel regeneration oddly.  It rates each ship based on how quickly the ship returns to full capacity.  This is pretty useless for my purposes.

Does anyone know how I can get figures for recharge rates without actually timing them myself in Super Melee?
There are actually two parameters of the fuel regeneration, how often energy is added, and the amount of energy that is added each time.

'energy_wait' is the number of frames in between recharges that nothing is added.
'energy_regeneration' is the number of units of energy added.

So on average, you've got '(energy_wait + 1) / energy_regeneration' energy per frame, and as there are 24 frames per second, that gives you '(energy_wait + 1) / (energy_regeneration * 24)' energy per second.

The numbers for the ships can be found in src/sc2code/ships/*/*.c. Look for 'ENERGY_WAIT' and 'ENERGY_REGENERATION'. It should be pretty self-exaplanatory, even for non-coders.



Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 25, 2007, 06:11:20 pm
Thanks, meep-eep! I never thought about checking the source.  I had no idea it'd be so readable, but it definitely helps you specifically stating the formula.  This should make it much easier.

Thanks for the Ship Specs page, too, Spek.  I already know of it but avoided it since it's just an approximated summary and not true figures.  It seems to be on an odd scale, too.  (either 8 or 9).

Once I have the ships statted up in my rules, I'll begin on an actual document so you guys can see where I'm heading.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Novus on February 25, 2007, 07:25:21 pm
So on average, you've got '(energy_wait + 1) / energy_regeneration' energy per frame, and as there are 24 frames per second, that gives you '(energy_wait + 1) / (energy_regeneration * 24)' energy per second.
Is it me or are your formulae for time/energy, not energy/time (dividend and divisor switched)?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: meep-eep on February 25, 2007, 08:13:27 pm
You are correct.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 25, 2007, 09:00:10 pm
I figured it out. ^_~  Now I'm statting all the attacks.  Unlike the movement/crew/battery, making game statistics for them is not quite pit-pat.  But it's also ten times more fun. ^_~  With any luck I may have all the ships done today.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on February 25, 2007, 09:25:10 pm
Good attack stats are available here (http://ledmeister.com/supmeler.htm). And in the source codes, of course :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Kazagistar on February 27, 2007, 12:34:23 am
First of all, I'm new hi, how's it going.
OK thats over with.
Now, If you want to create a cardgame (anyone), a good site might be http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/
It has a simple scripting language fo creating card templates, and it's very user friendly.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on February 27, 2007, 12:00:37 pm
Good attack stats are available here (http://ledmeister.com/supmeler.htm).
It doesn't list the hit-points of the shots. :P


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 04:39:37 am
Shot hit points are simplified in the boardgame anyway.

Only three more ships left!  Once I do that and write a basic rules overview, I'll paste it in this thread.

Some notes to keep in mind when I do.

Ranges are completely adlibed.  If in play any RANGE seems ill-representative of its computer game counterpart, let me know.

Although for the most part, CREW, BATTERY, DAMAGE, and COST are relative to their computer game counterparts, sometimes values have been modified to account for rate of fire, accuracy, and other variables.  (For example, the Ur-Quan fusion blast does more damage than it does in the game.  This is to account for its high rate of fire.  Likewise, the Orz Nemesis's BATTERY has been reduced in order to simplify its cannon usage.  The number of attacks it can perform on a full tank is similar to the game.)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 06:13:08 am
What follows is a basic overview of the rules and ship stats.  All of this is rough, and some things are missing.  (namely, proper tokens, templates, and rules for planets and asteroids.)  I'll refine a proper rulebook in time.

Gameplay takes place on a hex-map.  Steal one from your favorite game or print them with a program.  Try ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/doc/games/roleplay/programs/mapping/hexmap45.zip though I haven't used it myself.  It should be noted if any ship or token exits any edge of the map, it will reappear on the opposite side.

You'll also need tokens to represent the spaceships and some of their weapons (attacks that "stay on the field" like the Marauder's spinning mines.)  I plan to make some makeshift ones using the ship's graphics, but you'll need to improv for now.

You'll also need a set of polyhedral dice, specifically, one each of a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12.  If you don't have these dice and don't want to buy them, there is a variety of dice-rolling software on the internet.

Players each pick opposite sides of the map and place their ship anywhere within two hexes of the edge.  From this point on, the game will be divided into turns between the players.  Through whatever means (flip a coin, pick the youngest, whatever) one player goes first.

During his turn, a player may
A) Move the ship into the hex in front of it by spending 1 THRUST point and may continue to do so until THRUST points have been reduced to zero.
B) Turn the ship one side to the left or right by spending 1 TURN point and may continue to do so until TURN points have been reduced to zero.
C) Perform its Main action once as long as BATTERY points are available.
D) Perform its Special action once as long as BATTERY points are available.

Player can do these in any order.  (ie. a player can move two hexes, turn a hex, fire its main weapon, and then move two more hexes).

Once a player declares an attack, the Attack phase begins.

To declare an attack, the opponent must be within the attack's arc and range.

1- Start with the hex in front of the ship, then picture a cone shape by including all hexes diagonal from that hex.  So it'd be one hex, the two diagonal-forward hexes from that hex, the outside most diagonal-forward hexes from that hex, and so forth.  Range is calculated by moving hex to hex, counting each hex along the way.

3- same, except start with the ship itself.  However, don't start counting range with this hex.

6- Extends in any direction.

R- Go reverse instead of front-ways.

If the ship is, you may attack.  Roll your weapon's ATTACK die.  For every 5 points of range, reduce your ATTACK die by one level. Your opponent rolls their ship's PILOT die.  If the ATTACK roll beats or ties the PILOT die, you hit and you reduce their CREW by your attack's DAMAGE.  If the PILOT die is greatest, nothing happens.

After you have rolled your ATTACK roll, but before the opponent rolls their pilot die, they may state they want to use a reflex action.  They roll a d12 instead of their PILOT die.  If they beat your attack roll, their reflex ability is used.  Besides any effects as a result of that ability, your attack also misses.  If their reflex roll is lower than your ATTACK, they roll PILOT as normal.

AFTER the PILOT roll, if the opposing ship has not yet used a Reflex action, they may do so.  However, when used this way, they may only roll a d6.

Even if the REFLEX roll fails, BATTERY is still lost, and any effects from the reflex ability still happens.

NOTE: If any attack has the "Automatic Hit" descriptor, the player may still use the reflex action, but only as if they were rolling after the ATTACK roll.  (ie. a d6)

In every turn after each player's first, there is a special Inertia phase that takes place before everything else.  when you moved your ship, you need to keep track of how many hexes you moved in each direction.  Whichever direction you moved most, becomes your Inertia.  (ie. if you moved 2 hexes north, turned, and moved one square northwest, your inertia is 2 north.  If two directions tie, pick whichever was moved last.)  At the beginning of your turn, you must move as many hexes as your Inertia requires.  This does not cost THRUST points.

Also, during the Inertia phase, you may replenish your BATTERY with points equivalent to your REGEN rating.

Anyway, I apologize for the terrible roughness.  Just wanted to get you guys something as soon as possible!

Androsynth Guardian
CREW   5
BATTERY   6

THRUST   1
TURN    2
REGEN   1/2
PILOT   d4

MAIN: Bubbles
RANGE   1
ARC   3
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d6
Spray: Can be fired multiple times in one turn.  Attack roll must be made for each bubble.  Defense need only be rolled once.

SPECIAL: Blazer Form
RANGE   0
ARC   0
DAMAGE   *
PILOT   d10
COST   1 per Turn

Ships stats change as follows:

Blazer Form
THRUST   5
TURN   4
REGEN   0
ATTACK   d10
PILOT   d10
Inertialess: In Blazer Mode, the Guardian is unaffected by inertia.  It cannot gravity whip and does not need to make piloting rolls near a planet.
Full Throttle: In Blazer form, the Guardian must move its full alotted THRUST every turn.
Ramming: The Blazer attacks by entering another ship's hex.  If it successfully attacks, it does damage equal to the number of THRUST points it has remaining, including the one it used to enter the hex.  After damage has been calculated, it returns to the hex it came from with the same facing. 
Irreversable: The Guardian cannot disengage from Blazer form until its BATTERY is depleted.
Reflex: Blazer Form may be activated during the Reflex phase.
Full Stop: Once the Blazer form wears off, the Guardian comes to a full stop.  Any inertia it may have accrued is ignored.

Ariloulaleelay Skiff
CREW   1
BATTERY   5

THRUST   4
TURN   *
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10
Inertialess: The Skiff is unaffected by inertia and tractorbeams.  The skiff cannot gravity whip and does not need to make piloting rolls near a planet.
Nimble: Skiff may make unlimited turns.

MAIN: Tracking Laser
RANGE   1
ARC   6
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d12
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.
Rapid Fire: Skiff can fire its tracking laser multiple times in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.

SPECIAL: Jump
COST   1
Teleport: Skiff rolls a d6.  Each number represents a direction.  Roll a d12.  Move that many hexes in that direction.  If another object is in that hex, reroll.
Reflex: Skiff can Jump during the Reflex phase.


Chenjesu Broodhome
CREW   9
BATTERY   8

THRUST   2
TURN   1
REGEN   1
PILOT   d4


MAIN: Crystal Shard
RANGE   5*
ARC   1
DAMAGE   2
COST   2
ATTACK  d6
Token: Although shard has a range of 5, Player may instead create a token in any place in range.  This token will continue to move 5 hexes on each of the player's turns, in a straight line, until the player indicates otherwise.  Broodhome may not fire another shard until it does so. Should a ship collide with this token, through inertia or other means, it receives damage.  No Piloting roll required.
Scatter: Does damage to all surrounding squares.  For a broodhome, this can happen only to an attack that has been made a token, but may be done in the same round.  1 Damage is done to all surrounding squares of the token.  Shard will shatter even if destroyed by other means.

SPECIAL: DOGI
RANGE   1
ARC   1-Rear
DAMAGE   3*
COST   8
ATTACK   d8
THRUST   3
TURN   *
PILOT   d4
Token: A DOGI Token is placed in the rear facing hex.
Homing: DOGI will take most direct route to the nearest enemy ship.
Battery Drain: Instead of damaging CREW, a DOGI will drain BATTERY.
Nimble: DOGI may make unlimited turns.
Ramming: The DOGI attacks by entering another ship's hex.  If it successfully attacks, it does damage.  After damage has been calculated, it returns to the hex it came from with the same facing.


Chmmr Avatar
CREW   10
BATTERY   10

THRUST   4
TURN   3
REGEN   2
Pilot   d8
Zap-Sats: Avatar is surrounded by three Zap-Sats.  They effectively allow the Avatar to ignore all non-laser 1/2 damage attacks.  Any other successful non-laser attack will reduce the Zap-Sat count by 1 and not damage the Avatar.  Laser attacks will always damage the Avatar directly.  After one Zap-Sat is destroyed, future attacks are handled differently. 1 Zap-Sat destroyed, roll a d4. 1, damage affects Avatar directly. 2-4 calculate as if Avatar had 3 zap-sats.  2 Zap-Sats destroyed, roll a d4. 1-2 damage affects Avatar directly. 3-4 calculate normally.
Point Defense: For each hex adjacent to the Avatar an opponent enters, it receives 1/2 damage.  If the Avatar has lost a zap-sat, make opposed PILOT roll with a d10.  If it has lost two, a d4.  If the opposing ship has the highest PILOT roll, no damage is dealt.

MAIN: Laser
RANGE   2
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d12
Rapid Fire: Avatar may fire its Laser multiple times in one Attack phase.
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.

SPECIAL: Tractor Beam
RANGE   *
ARC   6
DAMAGE   0
COST   1
Tractor: Avatar chooses a ship.  That ship immediately moves 2 hexes closer to the Avatar.
Repeatable: Avatar may use its Tractor Beam multiple times in one turn.


Druuge Mauler
CREW   4
BATTERY   8

THRUST   1
TURN   2
REGEN   1/5
PILOT   d4

MAIN: Cannon
RANGE   10
ARC   1
DAMAGE   2
COST   1
ATTACK  d8
Kickback: Mauler moves immediately 3 squares in reverse.  If this ship collides with planets, asteroids, or tokens, it follows all rules as if it were being moved in the inertia phase.
Knockback: If hit, opponent is moved 2 squares opposite of side hit.  If this ship collides with planets, asteroids, or tokens, it follows all rules as if it were being moved in the inertia phase.
Reflex: Mauler may fire its cannon during the Reflex phase.  When used this way,  it cannot damage another ship, but immediately moves 2 hexes in reverse.

SPECIAL: Crew Conversion
Recharge: Regain 8 BATTERY
Crew Loss: Lose 1 CREW


Earthling Cruiser
CREW   5
BATTERY   5

THRUST   2
TURN   5
REGEN   1/2
PILOT   d8

MAIN: Missile
RANGE   15
ARC   1*
DAMAGE   1
COST   2
ATTACK   d8
Homing: Missiles will take most direct route to nearest enemy ship.  Missile can only travel 15 hexes, and may only make one turn every 3 hexes.  Range does not affect attack roll.

SPECIAL: Point Defense Lasers
RANGE   1
ARC   6
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d12
Interceptor: Attack can be used to destroy incoming attacks.
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.
Reflex: Cruiser may fire its Point Defense Lasers as a reflex action.


Ilwrath Avenger
CREW   5
BATTERY   4

THRUST   2
TURN   4
REGEN   2
PILOT   d6

MAIN: Hellfire
RANGE   1
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Rapid Fire: Avenger can fire its Hellfire multiple times in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.
Reflex: Hellfire may be used during the Reflex phase as long as the Avenger is facing the source of its attack.


SPECIAL: Cloaking
COST   1
Invisible: While cloaked, Avenger's pilot dice becomes d12 for the purpose of evading attacks.  Also, all homing attacks and tokens cease to function until the Avenger has uncloaked.  Uncloaking also costs 1 BATTERY.
Muzzled: While cloaked, Avenger cannot attack.  If the Avenger fires its Hellfire, cloaking is automatically disengaged.
Reflex: Cloaking may be used during the Reflex phase, but only against Homing weapons.

Kohr-ah Marauder
CREW   10
BATTERY   10

THRUST   3
TURN   2
REGEN   1
PILOT   d6

MAIN: Spinning Mine
RANGE   5*
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d6
Token: Although the mine has a range of 5, Player may instead create a token in any place in range.  This token will continue to move 5 hexes on each of the player's turns, in a straight line, until the player indicates otherwise.  Marauder may not fire another mine until it does so.  Should a ship collide with this token, through inertia or other means, it receives damage.  No Piloting roll required.
Mine: At any point after a token has been made, it can be frozen in place.  Marauder may now fire another mine if it desires. Should a ship collide with this token, through inertia or other means, it receives damage.  No Piloting roll required.
Limited Homing: If a ship is ever within 2 hexes of the mine, it will move one hex closer to that ship during the Marauder's turn.  If it ever enters the same square

SPECIAL: F.R.I.E.D.
RANGE   1
ARC   ALL
DAMAGE   3
COST   5
Interceptor: Attack can be used to destroy incoming attacks.
Reflex: Marauder may use F.R.I.E.D. during the Reflex phase.
Scatter: F.R.I.E.D. affects all hexes surrounding the Marauder.
Automatic Hit: Any ship in range is automatically hit.  No PILOT roll necessary.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 06:13:44 am
Melnorme Trader
CREW   5
BATTERY   10

THRUST   4
TURN   2
REGEN   1
PILOT   d8

MAIN: Plasma Ball
RANGE   10
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1-4
COST   1
ATTACK   d8
Charge: Instead of firing, Trader may charge up its blast.  At the beginning of each turn after the first, DAMAGE increases by 1, to a maximum of 4.  Once it has charged to the desired level, it may be fired and a normal attack roll made.
Automatic Hit: If a Menorme is charging its Plasma Ball, and a ship ever enters the Trader's front facing hex, it receives damage.  No PILOT roll necessary.  The Plasma Ball is in effect "shot" and if the Trader continues to charge, it must start over.

SPECIAL: EM Pulse
RANGE   10
ARC   1
DAMAGE   0
COST   5
ATTACK   d8
Confuse: When hit, an opposing ship must turn one facing every hex it moves, limited to its maximum TURN allowance.  Regardless of spaces moved, the ship must complete its TURN allotment by turning any remaining faces it has left at the end of its movement.  This affect wears off at the beginning of that ship's fourth turn.
Uninterruptable: EM Pulse is not affected by asteroids, planets, or tokens between it and the target.


Mmrnmhrm Transformer
CREW   5
BATTERY   3

THRUST   1
TURN   4
REGEN   1
PILOT   d4

MAIN: Laser
RANGE   2
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.
Rapid Fire: Transformer can fire its Laser for an extended time in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.

SPECIAL: Transform
COST   3

Ship Stats change as follows:

THRUST   5
TURN   1
REGEN   2
PILOT   d8   

MAIN: Missile
RANGE   15
ARC   3
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d6


Mycon Podship
CREW   5
BATTERY   10

THRUST   2
TURN   1
REGEN   1
PILOT   d4

MAIN: Homing Plasmoid
RANGE   1
ARC   1
DAMAGE   3
COST   5
Token: Once fired, Mycon places a token in its forward-facing hex.
Homing: Starting with the turn it was fired, Plasmoid will move four hexes in the direction of the closest ship.  Should the Plasmoid enter the hex of another ship, or another ship enters its hex, it will receive damage.  No PILOT roll is required.
Degrading: at the beginning of each of the Podship's turns, the Plasmoid's DAMAGE will decrease by one.  Once its DAMAGE is reduced to 0, the token is removed from play.
Friendly Fire: Plasmoids can damage the Podship.  When homing on a target, Plasmoids will not avoid colliding with the Podship.

SPECIAL: Regeneration
COST   10
Crew Regeneration: Podship regains 2 crew.


Orz Nemesis
CREW   4
BATTERY   3

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10

MAIN: Howitzer
RANGE   5
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Spray: Nemesis can be fire its Howitzer multiple times in one attack phase.  Attack roll must be made for each shot.  Defense need only be rolled once.
Turret: Nemesis may change the facing of its Howitzer by spending its available TURN points.  Each TURN point will change the Howitzer one facing either direction.  Nemesis may intermingle turning the turret and turning the ship itself freely.

SPECIAL: Marine
THRUST   4
TURN   3
PILOT   d6
Token: Once fired, Orz places a token in its rear-facing hex.
Homing: Starting with the turn it was released, A marine will move to the closest ship.  Should the Marine enter the hex of another ship, or another ship enters its hex, it invades it.  No PILOT roll is required.
Invasion: Once a Marine has invaded a ship, it will do 1/2 a point of DAMAGE.  At the beginning of each of the Nemesis's turns thereafter, roll a d4.  A result of 3-4 means another half point of damage is inflicted.  2 Nothing happens.  1, the Marine is destroyed.
Crew Required: Each Marine reduces CREW by 1/2 a point.  After an opposing ship is destroyed, any surviving Marines will return to the Nemesis.


Pkunk Fury
CREW   2
BATTERY   3

THRUST   5
TURN   *
REGEN   0
PILOT   d12
Nimble: Fury may make unlimited turns.
Ressurection: If Fury is destroyed, roll any die.  If the roll is an odd number, ship is ressurected with full CREW and BATTERY and sheds any detriments it may have gained in its previous life.  Toss ship onto map to determine a new random location.

MAIN: Multigun
RANGE   2
ARC   3
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Rapid Fire: Fury can fire its multigun multiple times in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.
Tri-attack: Attack fires in three directions.  If additional tokens or ships are in the firing arc besides the target, they too must make PILOT rolls or take damage.

SPECIAL: Insult
Battery Regeneration: Regain 1 BATTERY.
Free Action: Activating Insult does not prevent firing the multigun.
Player Interaction: To activate regeneration, player must call the opponent an insulting name and must do so each turn Insult is used.

Shofixti Scout
CREW   1
BATTERY   1

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10

MAIN: Energy Dart
RANGE   3
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
Attack   d10

SPECIAL: Glory Device
RANGE   3
ARC   ALL
DAMAGE   5
COST   1
Scatter: Glory Device does DAMAGE 3 hexes in all directions.
Fading: DAMAGE decreases as RANGE increases. 1 Hex = 5 damage, 2 Hexes = 3 Damage, and 3 Hexes = 1 Damage.
Reflex: Scout can use Glory Device during the Reflex phase.


Slylandro Probe
CREW   3
BATTERY   5

THRUST   5
TURN   *
REGEN   0
PILOT   d12
Full Throttle: Probe must move its full alotted THRUST every turn.
Inertialess: The Probe is unaffected by inertia and tractorbeams.  The Probe cannot gravity whip and does not need to make piloting rolls near a planet.
Nimble: Probe may make unlimited turns.
Inert Crew: Probe cannot be affected by the Syreen's song, nor can it pick up hypnotized crew.

MAIN: Lightning
RANGE   2
ARC   6
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.

SPECIAL: Absorb Asteroid
Battery Regeneration: Regain 5 BATTERY
Materials: To use SPECIAL, Probe must be adjacent to an asteroid.  Once used, any adjacent asteroid is destroyed.

Spathi Eluder
CREW   8
BATTERY   3

THRUST   5
TURN   5
REGEN   1/2
PILOT   d12

MAIN: Machine Gun
RANGE   2
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Rapid Fire: Eluder can fire its machine gun multiple times in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.

SPECIAL: B.U.T.T.
RANGE   4
ARC   3-R
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d8


Supox Blade
CREW   3
BATTERY   4

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10

MAIN: Rapid Glob
RANGE   4
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d10
Rapid Fire: Blade can fire its Rapid Glob multiple times in one attack phase.  Only one Attack roll necessary.

SPECIAL: Extended Maneuver
Side Slip: Ship may move in any direction without changing facing.  However, for each hex moved in a direction besides forward, both available THRUST and TURN points are reduced by 1.
Reflex: Blade may perform its Extended Maneuver during the Reflex phase as long as it has remaining THRUST and TURN points.


Syreen Penetrator
CREW   3(10)
BATTERY   4

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10
Skeleton Crew: Penetrator begins with a reduced CREW compliment.

MAIN: Electron Dagger
RANGE   3
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d8

SPECIAL: Song
RANGE   4
ARC   ALL
DAMAGE   3
COST   2
Hypnotize: Instead of killing CREW, they are instead coaxed out into space.  CREW become a Token into the closest hex to the Penetrator that is still adjacent to the hypnotized ship.  This token remains stationary.  If another ship enters this hex, it can claim the crew as its own.  No ship may increase its maximum crew capacity in this way.
Fading: DAMAGE decreases as RANGE increases. 1 Hex = 3 damage, 2 Hexes = 2 Damage, 3 Hexes = 1 Damage, and 4 Hexes = 1/2 Damage


Thraddash Torch
CREW   2
BATTERY   6

THRUST   2
TURN   5
REGEN   1

MAIN: Shot
RANGE   3
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d10

SPECIAL: Afterburner
RANGE   1
ARC   1-R
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
Kickback: Torch moves immediately 1 hex forward.  If this ship collides with planets, asteroids, or tokens, it follows all rules as if it were being moved in the inertia phase.
Rapid Fire: Torch can fire its Afterburner multiple times in one attack phase. Each time it will move one hex forward.
Token: After Torch moves one hex forward, place a token in the previous hex.  Should a ship collide with this token, through inertia or other means, it receives damage.  No Piloting roll required.  After two turns, remove token from play.


Umgah Drone
CREW   2
BATTERY   8

THRUST   1
TURN   2
REGEN   *
PILOT   d4
Battery Regeneration: If Drone does not Jump or fire its Antimatter Cone for two turns, its BATTERY will be charged to full capacity at the beginning of its third turn.

MAIN: Antimatter Cone
RANGE   1
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   0
Automatic Hit: Any ship that enters the Drone's forward-facing Hex receives damage.  No PILOT roll is required.
Reflex: Drone may use its Antimatter Cone during the Reflex phase.

SPECIAL: Reverse Jump
COST   1
Repeatable: Drone may reverse jump multiple times during its turn.
Kickback: Drone moves immediately 1 hex backward.
Full Stop: Movement made by the Reverse Jump is never used to calculate inertia.   In addition, only THRUST points spent after its last Jump count towards inertia.
Reflex: Drone may use its Reverse Jump during the Reflex phase as long as its facing is not directly away from the source of the attack.

Ur-Quan Dreadnought
CREW   10
BATTERY   10

THRUST   3
TURN   2
REGEN   1
PILOT   d8

Main: Fusion Blast
RANGE   4
ARC   1
DAMAGE   3
COST   2
ATTACK   d8

Special: Launch Fighters!
RANGE   1
ARC   6
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
THRUST   3
TURN   *
PILOT   0
Nimble: Fighters can make unlimited turns.
Token: Once fired, Dreadnought places a token in its rear-facing hex.
Homing: Starting with the turn it was released, Fighters will move to the closest ship.  Should the Fighters enter any adjacent hex of another ship, or another ship enters an adjacent hex, Fighters deal damage.  No PILOT roll is required.
Crew Required: Each group of Fighters reduces CREW by 1.  After an opposing ship is destroyed, any surviving Fighters will return to the Dreadnought.
Refueling: Fighters can only function for 5 turns.  Thereafter, they will attempt to return to the Dreadnought.  If after 2 turns they have not been able to enter the Dreadnought's hex, they perish.
Dumb as Dirt: Fighters treat all PILOT results as 0.
Repeatable: Dreadnought may launch multiple fighters in one turn.


Utwig Jugger
CREW   5
BATTERY   5(3)

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   *
PILOT   d10
Lackluster Reserves: Jugger begins game with 3 BATTERY

MAIN: Energy Spears
RANGE   2
ARC   1
DAMAGE   2
COST   0
ATTACK   d12

SPECIAL: Energy Accumilation Shield
RANGE   0
ARC   6
COST   1
Damage Shield: After its activation, Jugger ignores all DAMAGE until its next turn.
Reflex: Jugger can use its Shield in the Reflex Phase.
Battery Regeneration: Regain BATTERY equivalent to DAMAGE absorbed.  All attacks should make ATTACK and PILOT rolls for this purpose.  Any missed attacks do not add to BATTERY.
Flash-use: Shield can be activated for only 1 COST if used in the Reflex phase.


VUX Intruder
CREW   5
BATTERY   10

THRUST   1
TURN   1
REGEN   1/2
PILOT   d4
Ambush: When placing ships at the beginning of the game, always place VUX ship second.  Before placing the ship, roll any die.  If the result is odd, Intruder is place within 2 hexes of any desired opponent and facing its direction.  This player goes first.

MAIN: Optical Laser
RANGE   2
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d12
Rapid Fire: Intruder may fire its Optical Laser multiple times in one Attack phase.
Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.

SPECIAL: Limpets
RANGE   1
ARC   1
DAMAGE   0
COST   3
THRUST   2
TURN   *
Nimble: Limpets can make unlimited turns.
Token: Once fired, Intruder places a token in its forward-facing hex.  After two turns, remove token from play.
Homing: Starting with the turn it was released, a limpet will move to the closest ship.  Should the limpet enter the hex of another ship, or another ship enters its hex, it latches on.  No PILOT roll is required.
Impede: Once a limpet attaches, it permanently reduces THRUST, TURN, and PILOT by 1.  However, no ship can have THRUST and TURN reduced below 1 or PILOT below d4.  Limpets do not affect Intertia-like abilities like the Torch's Afterburner or the Mauler's kickback.)


Yehat Terminator
CREW   5
BATTERY   3

THRUST   3
TURN   4
REGEN   1
PILOT   d8

MAIN: Ion Cannon
RANGE   3
ARC   1
DAMAGE   1
COST   1
ATTACK   d8
Rapid Fire: Terminator may fire its Ion Cannon multiple times in one Attack phase.


SPECIAL: Shield
RANGE   0
ARC   6
COST 2
Damage Shield: After its activation, Terminator ignores all DAMAGE until its next turn.
Reflex: Terminator can use its Shield in the Reflex Phase.
Flash-use: Shield can be activated for only 1 COST if used in the Reflex phase.

Zoq-Fot-Pik Stinger
CREW   3
BATTERY   3

THRUST   4
TURN   5
REGEN   1
PILOT   d10

MAIN: Spray
RANGE   1
ARC   3
DAMAGE   1/2
COST   1
ATTACK   d6
Spray: Can be fired multiple times in one Attack phase.  ATTACK roll must be made for each attack.  PILOT need only be rolled once.
Tri-attack: Attack fires in three directions.  If additional tokens or ships are in the firing arc besides the target, they too must make PILOT rolls or take DAMAGE.

SPECIAL: Tongue
RANGE   0
ARC   1
DAMAGE   3
COST   2
ATTACK   d8
Ramming: The Tongue attacks by entering another ship's hex and makes an ATTACK roll.  After the attack has been resolved, it returns to the hex it came from with the same facing.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on February 28, 2007, 03:25:53 pm
Interesting. I like also the fact that it allows for tactical multiship battles, but are you going to make also a computer program for playing this board game or just post the rules and graphics?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 04:45:18 pm
There exists a multitude of "Virtual RPG desktops" that include dice-rollers and map windows with miniature handling, including ScreenMonkey and the free (but clunky) Web-RPG.  At this time, I don't plan to attempt to code one specifically tuned towards this game.  But you never know. ;)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 28, 2007, 05:20:35 pm
Clay just won the forum. :D

What else do you plan to add to the rules? (crew, special actions, etc)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 05:49:59 pm
Well first off, need to add two things I forgot for the draft:
Range:  for every 5 squares of range, reduce your ATTACK die by 1.  It cannot be reduced below d4.
VUX: have a random chance similar to PKUNK ressurection.  Roll any die...on an odd result, ship is placed within two hexes and facing another ship of choice at the game's start.

Now onto ADDITIONAL things

A) Planet rules, including gravity whipping and collisions
B) Asteroid rules
C) Rules on destroying tokens
D) Captain quirks.  Special abilities and weaknesses that you can optionally randomly assign to your ships.  Like Sure Shot: ATTACK die is never reduced by range and Nine Lives: Once a game, an attack that would normally destroy a ship reduces it to 1/2 a crew and Gravity Sucker: PILOT is reduced to d4 for all planetary maneuvers.
E) Now the big one.  Strategy game and scenarios.  In the vein of SC1, but with scenarios also based on major SC2 events.
F) Ship construction system.

And that's about it.  There may be something I've forgot...I'll edit the post if I think of anything. ^_^


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on February 28, 2007, 10:43:40 pm
In SC2, when Ilwrath fire while cloaked, they automatically uncloak facing the enemy. You might want to put that in the rules.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on February 28, 2007, 11:49:44 pm
I assumed this was placed in the game because it is difficult for the Player to determine his or her own facing.  This is obviously not an issue in the boardgame, where cloaking simply raises the PILOT die to d12, as opposed to making anyone invisible (for obvious reasons).

But if the Ilwrath having to manually direct its facing truly gimps an already gimpy ship, I'm open to changing it.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 01, 2007, 02:30:29 pm
Will there be any "Precursor upgrades" like in Star Control 1?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on March 01, 2007, 07:03:17 pm
^Speaking of that, do you plan to include the Flagship?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 01, 2007, 09:43:40 pm
Yes to precursor upgrades, a no for now for the flagship.  Since it will be a player v. player type game, the Flagship is sort of a one-sided bonus that I don't feel is appropriate.  (And flagship v. flagship has no game basis).  But if by some miracle I finish everything else, I would definitely throw together some stats/customizing options for a flagship.

For now, the game hasn't been played.  At all.  Creating some tokens and maps so people can try out the game is my next priority. ^_^  I hate to admit it, but it's possible this is a case of "looks good on paper...plays very poorly."  Need to rule that out before planning too far ahead.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on March 01, 2007, 11:29:45 pm
If you make some tokens/ a game board,  I should be able to round up a few of my friends to play it and give you feedback.  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 01, 2007, 11:40:56 pm
This is some nice work, Clay. Of course, this means I'm going to nitpick at it in an effort (possibly misguided) to make it better. ;)

First of all, I spotted this:

Quote
B) Turn the ship one side to the left or right by spending 1 TURN point and may continue to do so until THRUST points have been reduced to zero.

I'm assuming that "THRUST" is supposed to say "TURN" and that this is a simple typo.

Now for some clarifications and suggestions:

First, a point of clarification about attacking: Can you use your main and special attacks in the same turn? I was under the impression that you could, but the "Free Action" rule in the Pkunk Fury's description seems to imply otherwise.

Is there a limit to the number of reflex actions you can use? I think I'm confused about this because I'm not really clear on how these work. Let's look at a couple of examples (assume, in all cases, that my reflex roll was successful).

I am flying an Earthling Cruiser against two enemy Thraddash Torches. All have full batteries, and it is the Torch player's turn. Both use their main guns against my Cruiser, and I want to use my point defense to shoot those projectiles down. Can I use two reflex actions to do so, or am I limited to only one? Will one reflex action be enough anyway, due to the multitargeting nature of the Cruiser's point defense (or is this a moot point, since they are two separate attack actions at two separate times, each requiring a separate reflex roll)?

Let's take the above example, but replace those Torches with a Supox Blade, also with full battery. The Blade declares its attack action, and decides to expend its entire battery on 4 shots. How is the reflex action handled for this? Since the Blade only makes one attack roll, it seems to imply that only 1 reflex roll is required to intercept all 4 shots. Or instead, does it require 4 separate reflex rolls?

Above example again, but replace the Blade with an Ur-Quan Dreadnought. The Dreadnought fires its fusion cannon, and I attempt to shoot it down with point defense. Is this even possible? It certainly isn't in UQM, since the fusion bolt is far too resilient, but the way the reflex action rules are currently written seem to imply that the attack is negated despite that (note bolded text):

Quote
After you have rolled your ATTACK roll, but before the opponent rolls their pilot die, they may state they want to use a reflex action.  They roll a d12 instead of their PILOT die.  If they beat your attack roll, their reflex ability is used.  Besides any effects as a result of that ability, your attack also misses.  If their reflex roll is lower than your ATTACK, they roll PILOT as normal.

Another example, same ships as above, except that this time, the Dreadnought launches a fighter which manages to get into a hex adjacant to my Cruiser. Now according to the rules for fighters, it should automatically deal damage without a pilot roll. But am I still able to avoid this by using a reflex action to shoot it down? Or do I have to wait for my turn (and take damage that no half competent Cruiser pilot would ever suffer in UQM) before I can fry the fighter with an explicit attack action?

Last example. Let's return to the very first scenario with the pair of Torches, but replace my ship with a Spathi Eluder. The Eluder does not have any explicitly defined reflex actions. Is there a "generic" reflex action that any ship can take to force attacks to miss, or does there need to be an explicitly defined option in order for reflex actions to even be available?

Wait, one last thing. Let's say, in any given Cruiser example, I fail my reflex roll. While it means I was too slow with my point defense to shoot down whatever attack, do I expend battery power for firing the laser anyway? Or is it simply treated as if it were never fired at all?

Enough about reflexes, on to other things.

One of the primary things that struck me when reading your descriptions was the concept of "fractional crewmen," AKA weapons inflicting 1/2 point of damage. Not only does this not make a lot of sense (and generate disturbing mental images of what half a crewman would look like and how he/she/it could possibly function in such a state), it also leads to some strange and awkward scenarios (for example, using the Syreen's special to drain away all but the last enemy crewman (though the rules do not explicitly state that the last crewman does not bail out), but since its main gun only inflicts 1/2 damage, still requiring 2 shots to finish its opponent off). My suggestion is to simply double all damage values and crew complements; it is much simpler to deal only with whole numbers.

Incidentally, I feel the above should also apply to battery consumption and regeneration. However, I realize there is probably no other way to represent the truly awful regen rate on the Mauler than with fractional values. However, there really is no good reason any other ship should have to deal with them.

Now, I would be remiss if I didn't make some comments on various individual ships:

Arilou: Shouldn't that laser always be pointed straight at the enemy (or straight ahead against a cloaked Ilwrath)? As it stands now, it seems like it would be quite powerful for shooting down all manner of hazards (limpets, Kohr-Ah discs, marines, etc.) which it would be hard pressed to handle in UQM.
Chenjesu: It's probably worth mentioning that the Broodhome is not damaged by its own crystals when they scatter.
Chmmr: In the ZapSat point defense section, you may want to mention that they will intercept tokens as well (eg. fighters, marines, limpets, etc.), even if they do not inflict direct damage.
Druuge: What is the thrust value in parenthesis for?
Earthling: I know I mentioned this above, but it bears mentioning again: Can point defense strike multiple targets with a single shot? For example, let's say a Cruiser has limpets in 3 adjacant hexes on its turn, and wants to shoot them down with point defense. Does the pilot need to fire 3 separate times, or will one shot bring them all down? Suffice to say, UQM uses the latter, but I can understand why that might be too powerful an ability under the current rules.
Ilwrath: I'm surprised the Avenger has no reflex actions, since both of its functions (the cloak especially, though I can't even describe the huge variety of projectiles the AI has shot down with that flamethrower over the years) seem well suited for this purpose.
Kohr-Ah: You never finished the "limited homing" description, it ends rather abruptly (though the meaning is clear despite that). Also, the mines do not damage the Marauder itself, at least in UQM, and that is not mentioned. Finally, it is probably worth mentioning that the limited homing function would only track against enemy ships, not allied ones nor the Marauder itself.
Melnorme: The "automatic hit" ability needs to be expanded on. It should include the stipulation that it will not take effect unless the Trader is charging a shot at the time, and that the automatic hit will also automatically discharge said shot. You may want to include the Trader's ability to defend against attacks originating from its front hex with a fully charged shot (since in UQM, a red charge can be used to block many projectiles). While charging, the Trader's REGEN attribute should drop to 0. While maintaining a charge, it should also be noted that the EM Pulse cannot be used. Finally, the EM Pulse should not be able to be intercepted or destroyed by any means, only dodged.
Pkunk: The rapid fire rule should probably not use the term "be destroyed," but rather "take damage as normal." Also, I just want to say that this ship's design made me chuckle. Between having to actually insult your opponent and randomly throwing the ship onto the board when reincarnating, it sounds like a blast to use just for humor value alone. :)
Shofixti: It might be worth adding that avoiding damage from the Glory Device using reflex actions is impossible unless you are on the outer edge of the blast (ie. 3 hexes away), and using a movment action to move outside of the range. Otherwise, you could potentially use something like point defense or the Umgah antimatter cone to avoid damage.
Thraddash: This ship also has an unexplained thrust value in parenthesis.
Umgah: The reverse jump seems like a perfectly logical evasion reflex.
Utwig: The Jugger cannot fire its main gun while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate (or absorb) damage from planetary collisions.
VUX: When you describe limpets as reducing "PILOT by 1," are you referring to subtracting from the die roll (ie. Earthling with 1 limpet would be reduced from d8 to d8-1), or reducing the actual die rolled to the next lowest polyhedron (ie. Earthling with 1 limpet would be reduced from d8 to d6)? It seems to imply the latter, but is not clear. Also, it is worth mentioning that a reincarnating Fury will instantly clear all limpets from its hull (at least in UQM).
Yehat: Like the Jugger, the Terminator cannot fire while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate damage from planet collisions. Also, it is worth mentioning that under the current rules, a Terminator can shield indefinitely, effectively reducing almost any battle to a stalemate.
ZoqFotPik: Like the Fury, The tri-attack rule should probably not use the term "be destroyed," but rather "take damage as normal."

Anyway, that's my long-winded two bits. It bears mentioning that I think this project has great potential and is a cool idea, which is why I'm critiquing it in this much length. ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Death 999 on March 02, 2007, 12:25:50 am
I do not like the lack of momentum. Your ship moving sideways without changing facing is very important in the real game.

I've played board games with momentum, and it wasn't that hard to do, but it wasn't done on a hex grid. Also, the squares were tiny.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 02, 2007, 12:39:33 am
This is some nice work, Clay. Of course, this means I'm going to nitpick at it in an effort (possibly misguided) to make it better. ;)

First of all, I spotted this:

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B) Turn the ship one side to the left or right by spending 1 TURN point and may continue to do so until THRUST points have been reduced to zero.

I'm assuming that "THRUST" is supposed to say "TURN" and that this is a simple typo.

You'd be correct. :)

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Now for some clarifications and suggestions:

First, a point of clarification about attacking: Can you use your main and special attacks in the same turn? I was under the impression that you could, but the "Free Action" rule in the Pkunk Fury's description seems to imply otherwise.
I went back and forth on this.  For now, you can do both.  If this makes some ships too powerful, I may revert to one or the other.

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Is there a limit to the number of reflex actions you can use? I think I'm confused about this because I'm not really clear on how these work. Let's look at a couple of examples (assume, in all cases, that my reflex roll was successful).
In all cases, as long as you meet the requirements (ie. battery consumption) you can use a reflex action.

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I am flying an Earthling Cruiser against two enemy Thraddash Torches. All have full batteries, and it is the Torch player's turn. Both use their main guns against my Cruiser, and I want to use my point defense to shoot those projectiles down. Can I use two reflex actions to do so, or am I limited to only one? Will one reflex action be enough anyway, due to the multitargeting nature of the Cruiser's point defense (or is this a moot point, since they are two separate attack actions at two separate times, each requiring a separate reflex roll)?

As written, this requires two actions. Even in playing the real game (supposing this scenario was msde possible at all), the attacks would probably not be in sync enough to use only one PD shot.

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Let's take the above example, but replace those Torches with a Supox Blade, also with full battery. The Blade declares its attack action, and decides to expend its entire battery on 4 shots. How is the reflex action handled for this? Since the Blade only makes one attack roll, it seems to imply that only 1 reflex roll is required to intercept all 4 shots. Or instead, does it require 4 separate reflex rolls?

Since there is only one attack roll, there is only one reflex action.  In most cases (except the cruiser) this is consistent with the game.  (If a torch jets out of the way, odds are ALL the Supox's shots miss.)

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Above example again, but replace the Blade with an Ur-Quan Dreadnought. The Dreadnought fires its fusion cannon, and I attempt to shoot it down with point defense. Is this even possible? It certainly isn't in UQM, since the fusion bolt is far too resilient, but the way the reflex action rules are currently written seem to imply that the attack is negated despite that (note bolded text)
:

An oversight.  I will need to add a cap on how much the Cruiser's PDL can block.

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Another example, same ships as above, except that this time, the Dreadnought launches a fighter which manages to get into a hex adjacant to my Cruiser. Now according to the rules for fighters, it should automatically deal damage without a pilot roll. But am I still able to avoid this by using a reflex action to shoot it down? Or do I have to wait for my turn (and take damage that no half competent Cruiser pilot would ever suffer in UQM) before I can fry the fighter with an explicit attack action?

For the sake of simplicity all "Automatic Hit" attacks do not allow reflex actions.

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Last example. Let's return to the very first scenario with the pair of Torches, but replace my ship with a Spathi Eluder. The Eluder does not have any explicitly defined reflex actions. Is there a "generic" reflex action that any ship can take to force attacks to miss, or does there need to be an explicitly defined option in order for reflex actions to even be available?

The Eluder's high PILOT die is all it gets.  Since it costs no fuel, its arguably more useful than many of the reflex abilities.

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Wait, one last thing. Let's say, in any given Cruiser example, I fail my reflex roll. While it means I was too slow with my point defense to shoot down whatever attack, do I expend battery power for firing the laser anyway? Or is it simply treated as if it were never fired at all?

This was supposed to be in the rules, but I guess it isn't.  As long as you're not DEAD after the attack, your reflex action still takes place.  You still lose fuel and still move if that is part of the reflex.

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One of the primary things that struck me when reading your descriptions was the concept of "fractional crewmen," AKA weapons inflicting 1/2 point of damage. Not only does this not make a lot of sense (and generate disturbing mental images of what half a crewman would look like and how he/she/it could possibly function in such a state), it also leads to some strange and awkward scenarios (for example, using the Syreen's special to drain away all but the last enemy crewman (though the rules do not explicitly state that the last crewman does not bail out), but since its main gun only inflicts 1/2 damage, still requiring 2 shots to finish its opponent off). My suggestion is to simply double all damage values and crew complements; it is much simpler to deal only with whole numbers.

The idea is so you can deal with an easy 10 most of the time, but the system changes to "out of 20" for truly minor hits.  Doing math, this is awkward.  In the actual game, each ship will have a sheet with ten boxes, each divided in half.  You mark off CREW by filling in boxes.  It's quite easy, even the half ones.  Syreen should read "Cannot reduce below 1/2 crew"  You shouldn't take it as half a crewman but half a crew "block" which has several crew in it.

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Incidentally, I feel the above should also apply to battery consumption and regeneration. However, I realize there is probably no other way to represent the truly awful regen rate on the Mauler than with fractional values. However, there really is no good reason any other ship should have to deal with them.

Oversight.  The fraction should be read "You regen one fuel every X turns"  ie. 1/2 means you get a BATTERY point every other turn.

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Arilou: Shouldn't that laser always be pointed straight at the enemy (or straight ahead against a cloaked Ilwrath)? As it stands now, it seems like it would be quite powerful for shooting down all manner of hazards (limpets, Kohr-Ah discs, marines, etc.) which it would be hard pressed to handle in UQM.

Some ships are slightly more powerful and others slightly less.  This is why point values are not currently assigned.  I could always give the Skiff a "Can only target ships" flaw.

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Chenjesu: It's probably worth mentioning that the Broodhome is not damaged by its own crystals when they scatter.

No ship can damage itself unless it has the "Friendly Fire" descriptor.

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Druuge: What is the thrust value in parenthesis for?

A note to myself.  Originally the Druuge would go 5 hexes backward.

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Earthling: I know I mentioned this above, but it bears mentioning again: Can point defense strike multiple targets with a single shot? For example, let's say a Cruiser has limpets in 3 adjacant hexes on its turn, and wants to shoot them down with point defense. Does the pilot need to fire 3 separate times, or will one shot bring them all down? Suffice to say, UQM uses the latter, but I can understand why that might be too powerful an ability under the current rules.

Due to the short range, I don't think it'd be too overpowered to add a "Scattered" descriptor to the Earthling PD.

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Ilwrath: I'm surprised the Avenger has no reflex actions, since both of its functions (the cloak especially, though I can't even describe the huge variety of projectiles the AI has shot down with that flamethrower over the years) seem well suited for this purpose.
Once someone fires, it's too late to cloak.  The attack will hit (or not) whether you're visible or not.  the aim has been made.  You are where you are.  Flamethrower is noted though.

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Kohr-Ah: You never finished the "limited homing" description, it ends rather abruptly (though the meaning is clear despite that). Also, the mines do not damage the Marauder itself, at least in UQM, and that is not mentioned. Finally, it is probably worth mentioning that the limited homing function would only track against enemy ships, not allied ones nor the Marauder itself.

As mentioned previously, no attack can damage friendly ships unless it has the Friendly Fire descriptor.  (See Mycon)

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Melnorme: The "automatic hit" ability needs to be expanded on. It should include the stipulation that it will not take effect unless the Trader is charging a shot at the time, and that the automatic hit will also automatically discharge said shot. You may want to include the Trader's ability to defend against attacks originating from its front hex with a fully charged shot (since in UQM, a red charge can be used to block many projectiles). While charging, the Trader's REGEN attribute should drop to 0. While maintaining a charge, it should also be noted that the EM Pulse cannot be used. Finally, the EM Pulse should not be able to be intercepted or destroyed by any means, only dodged.

Noted.

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Pkunk: The rapid fire rule should probably not use the term "be destroyed," but rather "take damage as normal." Also, I just want to say that this ship's design made me chuckle. Between having to actually insult your opponent and randomly throwing the ship onto the board when reincarnating, it sounds like a blast to use just for humor value alone. :)
Hahah! I'm glad someone enjoyed this besides me. I'm not crazy!

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Shofixti: It might be worth adding that avoiding damage from the Glory Device using reflex actions is impossible unless you are on the outer edge of the blast (ie. 3 hexes away), and using a movment action to move outside of the range. Otherwise, you could potentially use something like point defense or the Umgah antimatter cone to avoid damage.

Noted.

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Thraddash: This ship also has an unexplained thrust value in parenthesis.
Same logic as Druuge.

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Umgah: The reverse jump seems like a perfectly logical evasion reflex.
It should be.  This was an oversight.

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Utwig: The Jugger cannot fire its main gun while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate (or absorb) damage from planetary collisions.
Waiting on planet rules. :)  As for shield v. gun...I assumed the shield could be put up, put down, and guns fired all in the course of one turn.  No gameplay mention needed.

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VUX: When you describe limpets as reducing "PILOT by 1," are you referring to subtracting from the die roll (ie. Earthling with 1 limpet would be reduced from d8 to d8-1), or reducing the actual die rolled to the next lowest polyhedron (ie. Earthling with 1 limpet would be reduced from d8 to d6)? It seems to imply the latter, but is not clear. Also, it is worth mentioning that a reincarnating Fury will instantly clear all limpets from its hull (at least in UQM).
Should read that it reduces the polyhedron by one size.  Noted about the Fury.

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Yehat: Like the Jugger, the Terminator cannot fire while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate damage from planet collisions. Also, it is worth mentioning that under the current rules, a Terminator can shield indefinitely, effectively reducing almost any battle to a stalemate.
Unless he uses all of his firepower.  If he attacks (which eventually, anyone will out of boredom) the Terminator will eventually be forced to choose between fighting, recharging, and shielding.  Also, if the shield is used as a reflex, it's not guaranteed.

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ZoqFotPik: Like the Fury, The tri-attack rule should probably not use the term "be destroyed," but rather "take damage as normal."

Noted.

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Anyway, that's my long-winded two bits. It bears mentioning that I think this project has great potential and is a cool idea, which is why I'm critiquing it in this much length. ;D

I really really apreciate it.  It's the kind of input I hoped for.  Gonna try to create a ship sheet, a sheet of tokens, map sheets, and update the rules with this stuff soon. :)

Oh and Death, check the rules for the Inertia phase. :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 02, 2007, 05:23:51 am
Okay, here's a sheet mockup!

http://www.wiseturtle.com/sc2sheet.jpg (http://www.wiseturtle.com/sc2sheet.jpg)

If it seems to work for everyone, I'll upload the hi-res blank version.

Next: Ships and tokens!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 02, 2007, 03:21:24 pm
A small addition about the Melnorme - if a Trader is destroyed while charging a shot, the shot is released and may cause damage as normal.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 02, 2007, 03:26:51 pm
I suppose you can't use multiple attacks in one turn? But some weapons in UQM have a higher rate of fire than others. The boardgame Arilou laser would be too weak if used just one time per turn.
I think you should also add a "Rate of Fire" value to actions, so you have, say, 10 RT points per turn, you can for example shoot 5 Supox corrobules for 2 RT points each in each turn, if you have enough battery.
Plus, shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.
Arilou Jump: It is too cheap. 1 point is the same cost as of the laser's! Come on! In UQM it's much more expensive.
Earthling PD: Should be unable to miss -like in the game-, but also should hit asteroids when triggered.
Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.

And the ship icons - I hope you'll use hi-res versions, not? You can use some graphics from the Graphics Enhancement Thread.

Plus, the Pkunk reincarnation toss is too undetailed. From what height are you required to throw it? And consider the mess it would create if it hits another piece!
I'd make it that way: Pick an enemy ship and roll a d6 to determine direction. Jump in that direction a CERTAIN number of hexes (say from 6 to 12, choose the number BEFORE rolling the direction dice). Put the Fury there, reincarnated. This way, it adds to the game's strategy.
And the insults: If you have more than one Fury, I suppose you must say one insult for each one, no?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 02, 2007, 03:52:46 pm
Have to run, I'll examine your comments in detail later.  But check out the description for Arilou and other ships.  They have a Rapid Fire descriptor that allows them to fire unlimited times in a turn, as long as they have BATTERY.

Reincarnation shouldn't HAVE strategy.  It's completely random in the game.  Should be here, too.  Just for fun, to say.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 02, 2007, 03:58:39 pm
Also, jump isn't too cheap (you can use it about as many times in a row as in the game), the laser is in fact too expensive.  But since the damage has been upped to 1/2 a crew block a hit (roughly 2 crew in the original game) it evens out.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 02, 2007, 04:17:18 pm
That leaves the
1. Shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.
2. Earthling PD: Should be unable to miss -like in the game-, but also should hit asteroids when triggered.
3. Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.
4. The ship icons - I hope you'll use hi-res versions, not? You can use some graphics from the Graphics Enhancement Thread.
5. Plus, the Pkunk reincarnation toss is too undetailed. From what height are you required to throw it? And consider the mess it would create if it hits another piece!
6. The insults: If you have more than one Fury, I suppose you must say one insult for each one, no?
7. Multiple ship battles - canonically, your game has these, doesn't it? (Question important especially if somebody/you is/are going to make a program for this boardgame)
8. I think that the Androsynth bubbles should create tokens, because in the game it is possible to create a so-called "bubble bath". Short-lived bubbles, of course, proportional with the ones in UQM.

questions open for answering.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 02, 2007, 05:40:22 pm
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Another example, same ships as above, except that this time, the Dreadnought launches a fighter which manages to get into a hex adjacant to my Cruiser. Now according to the rules for fighters, it should automatically deal damage without a pilot roll. But am I still able to avoid this by using a reflex action to shoot it down? Or do I have to wait for my turn (and take damage that no half competent Cruiser pilot would ever suffer in UQM) before I can fry the fighter with an explicit attack action?

For the sake of simplicity all "Automatic Hit" attacks do not allow reflex actions.

This bothers me on some level. Perhaps fighters should have their own separate attack roll instead (something very high, like a d12, since it is realistically impossible to dodge their shots)? Then again... Eh, I guess I'd be willing to chalk this one up to game balance. Still, it just seems wrong, somehow.

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The idea is so you can deal with an easy 10 most of the time, but the system changes to "out of 20" for truly minor hits.  Doing math, this is awkward.  In the actual game, each ship will have a sheet with ten boxes, each divided in half.  You mark off CREW by filling in boxes.  It's quite easy, even the half ones.  Syreen should read "Cannot reduce below 1/2 crew"  You shouldn't take it as half a crewman but half a crew "block" which has several crew in it.

Somehow, it seems easier (to me, at least) to simply start by doubling all those values. It doesn't change anything (and would allow slightly more realistic damage scaling in some cases), and there's no "half-crewman" weird logic. Then again, if I were in your shoes, I'm sure I would be trying to work with the same crew/battery scales and values as in UQM, so take this as you will.

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Ilwrath: I'm surprised the Avenger has no reflex actions, since both of its functions (the cloak especially, though I can't even describe the huge variety of projectiles the AI has shot down with that flamethrower over the years) seem well suited for this purpose.
Once someone fires, it's too late to cloak.  The attack will hit (or not) whether you're visible or not.  the aim has been made.  You are where you are.  Flamethrower is noted though.

The examples that spring to mind immediately involve homing weapons of all stripes: Cruiser missiles, Eluder BUTT missiles, etc. Since most of these are launched from rather long ranges, it makes a lot of sense to cloak in order to throw off the tracking. Granted, this would do no good against direct fire weapons, so perhaps a special reflex against homing weapons?

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Utwig: The Jugger cannot fire its main gun while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate (or absorb) damage from planetary collisions.
Waiting on planet rules.   As for shield v. gun...I assumed the shield could be put up, put down, and guns fired all in the course of one turn.  No gameplay mention needed.

The thing that bothers me about the wording for the shield is that:

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After its activation, Jugger ignores all DAMAGE until its next turn.

The key phrase being "until its next turn," implying that if the first thing you do is activate your shields, they would remain active for the entire length of your turn, and the enemy's turn as well.

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Yehat: Like the Jugger, the Terminator cannot fire while its shields are up, nor can its shields negate damage from planet collisions. Also, it is worth mentioning that under the current rules, a Terminator can shield indefinitely, effectively reducing almost any battle to a stalemate.
Unless he uses all of his firepower.  If he attacks (which eventually, anyone will out of boredom) the Terminator will eventually be forced to choose between fighting, recharging, and shielding.  Also, if the shield is used as a reflex, it's not guaranteed.

I'm more concerned with a different scenario. The Terminator has already depleted its entire battery in attacks, and has the single point left in reserve. By shielding indefinitely (by simply raising shields at the start of each of its turns), the Terminator can force an opponent in what should be a superior tactical position to back away and allow the Terminator to regenerate as much battery power as it likes. It's not particularly sportsmanlike, but using this strategy and with the rules written as they are, there is currently no possible way to defeat the Terminator (as it can shield immediately if the enemy is in range, negating any ability they have to inflict damage); the best one can hope for is a stalemate.

Incidentally, I forgot to mention a few things you left out of the Melnorme's EM pulse description. First, it cannot be stopped by shielding against it. Second (and far more important), it disables the target's SPECIAL while its influence persists.

The record sheets look very nice, but as Valaggar mentioned, they would look even better if you used the ship designs from the graphic enhancement thread. I suspect that the authors (especially not yourself, I imagine) of those images would not have any qualms about giving you permission to use them for this project, plus it could rekindle efforts to get high-res versions of all the rest of the ships done.

Something else came to mind when Valaggar mentioned Androsynth bubbles leaving tokens behind: What are the rules on stacking tokens? Especially in somewhat ambiguous cases where there would be no logical detruction, such as limpets from opposing ships ending up on the same hex, or multiple friendly tokens of various types winding up on the same hex.

Oh, and Valaggar? About those Pkunk questions? Don't think too hard about them: It's a game, and the Pkunk are written to be especially fun to play. Try not to take them too seriously. :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 02, 2007, 06:00:38 pm
Yes, the Jugger shields should be an exclusively reflex action.

The Pkunk: Agreed. But about the insults... I think you should say a different insult each turn. And when you run out of them, you're done, at least until you reincarnate.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 02, 2007, 09:54:22 pm
3. Chenjesu&Kohr-Ah Main: should reduce PILOT while in use, because it's harder to maneouvre while  holding the fire button.
I've never had trouble maneuvering while holding the weapon key. Of course, it's hard to maneuver with Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah in the first place... :P


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 03, 2007, 02:49:49 am
Okay, fully back now.  Let me try to cover everything.

1. Low-Res Art - Geeze, settle down kiddies.  It's a mockup, what do you take me for? ^_~  I could have dug up the hi-res art, but it's A) aliased against a black BG and would be horrific on white and B) still too low-res for proper printing.  To bother using it now would be a waste of time.  I'll have professionally commissioned images done when and if I do this thing...it was just to give you guys an idea.

2. No more comments on the Earthling PD.  I realize the mechanic is broken in uncountable ways.  I will revisit it before I update the rules.

3. As Pillager mentioned, I feel no need to reduce Kohr-ah or Chenjesu Pilot.  I should however make notes that they can't use their special.

4.  Pkunk reincarnation: Point taken.  I'll revise it (or change it, perhaps tossing it with abandon is a bit TOO silly.)

5. Pkunk insults...Yes, more insults the better!  Redundancy would be frowned upon, but I don't think digging into dictionaries would be much fun.

6. Multiship battles: I have written the rules to not EXCLUDE the possibility.  But I haven't actually weighed the possibilities much.

7. Androsynth Bubble mechanics were made out of ignorance.  I found out after some testing that they work much differently than I thought.  Will be corrected.

8. Reflex Actions will now be allowed against "Automatic hit" weapons.  I just need to update the rules with ATTACK dice for these attacks for comparison.

9. Not budging on the CREW issue.  Doubling would be a senseless endeavor.  Nothing would change, just the numbers you're using.  (And would involve oddball jumps.  No ships will do 3, 5, 7, etc. damage)  As you said, you'd prefer using actual CREW values, which is a bit opposite of my whole intent. :)  Not wrong, per se, just different.

10.  Ilwrath cloaking is now a Reflex action, but only against weapons with the Homing descriptor.  You'll notice non-token weapons that home (BUTT missiles, the Transformer's missile pair) are just treated as weapons with a wide arc.  I will need to think about how to classify them as homing weapons, too, since they don't follow Homing rules.

11. Shielding...similar strategies are available in the actual game.  A faster ship can, theoretically, run forever, and this option is available in the game as well.  I'm tempted by making it a "reflex only" action as suggested...but I think shield ships should be able to play defensively, if they want.  Perhpaps double cost if not used as a reflex? (ie. holding up the shield longer)

Think that covers everything.  Let me know if I'm wrong.  But just to explain future tokens I may post...any graphical tokens, ships, and maps will be TEMPORARY for playtesting purposes.  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 03, 2007, 08:33:35 am
Quote from: Elvish Pillager
I've never had trouble maneuvering while holding the weapon key. Of course, it's hard to maneuver with Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah in the first place... 

This really depends upon the keys you use (I'm not referring to keyjamming). But anyway, I think that the PILOT reduction while shooting would be a good idea for balancing the Chen' & Kohr'. Kohr-Ahs are a bit too powerful, and Chenjesu would be very good in multiship battles due to their long range.

Plus, in  1v1 ship battles, do you plan to include screen wrapping?

And about shields: With an Utwig Jugger you could, in UQM, shield by mistake, for example when a Cruiser shots intentionally right next to you, but careful not to hit you. This way, you shield, but your energy doesn't replenish since you aren't really hit.
Additionally, shields don't work against laser weapons as a reflex weapon. About lasers you said that "Laser: This weapon cannot be destroyed by any attack, including weapons fired in the reflex phase.". However, in reality, you could, if you use the shield as a non-reflex action, defend against incoming lasers or at least cause the enemy not to shoot at you. (not to forget that ships shielded for the duration of a turn by using the shield as a non-reflex action will never be attacked in the boardgame, so it is an ability more useful in multiship.)

Ilwraths: As Draxas mentioned, the AI has shot a wide variety of projectiles with its flamethrower during the years. A human player could do the same. Flamethrowers should be reflex weapons.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 03, 2007, 12:57:44 pm
3. As Pillager mentioned, I feel no need to reduce Kohr-ah or Chenjesu Pilot.  I should however make notes that they can't use their special.
Actually, Chenjesu and Kohr-Ah can use their specials just fine while holding a shot. It's a bit of a clumsy move, of course.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 03, 2007, 01:40:18 pm
How will "Blazer hits a DOGI" condition be treated?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 03, 2007, 03:55:58 pm
I'll make a note to make the Flamethrower a reflex too, but only from the front arc.

Laser is a convoluted descriptor meant to read "Cannot be destroyed by reflex actions that destroy weapons"  ie. Flamethrower or PD Laser.  Teleports, Shields, and the like work just fine.

I thought about "faking" the jugger, but I assumed that was a tactic that worked mostly against the computer.  If it really is a decent p v p strategy, I'll start thinking how to include it.

As for the blazer/dogi glitch, I won't acknowledge it.  Didn't UQM fix that?



Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 03, 2007, 04:03:24 pm
Another small addition about Androsynth - when battery ends for Blazer form, the ship stops completely.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 03, 2007, 06:05:59 pm
Quote from: Clay
I thought about "faking" the jugger, but I assumed that was a tactic that worked mostly against the computer.  If it really is a decent p v p strategy, I'll start thinking how to include it.
It works for human players, if they are more like newbs. And even more experienced players. Anyway, normally, you would destroy the nuke with the energy spears, but sometimes you may miss and, out of imprudence, activate the shield in vain. Especially if the nuke manages to fly VERY close to you. So, this thing could be made like this: Shots that made it to the Utwig and miss it have a chance to still be shielded by the Utwig, but a small chance.

You still didn't answer the following questions:

1.
Quote from: Spektrowski
Another small addition about Androsynth - when battery ends for Blazer form, the ship stops completely. 

2. In  1v1 ship battles, do you plan to include screen wrapping?
3. I think that the PILOT reduction while shooting would be a good idea for balancing the Chen' & Kohr'. Kohr-Ahs are a bit too powerful, and Chenjesu would be very good in multiship battles due to their long range.
4. Laser weapons CAN'T be defended against by Teleports, Shields or anything, since they hit immediately. Probably you should make it like this: The Teleport/Shield/Umgah Antimatter Cone defend against lasers only after hit once or twice, since they can't react faster than light.
5. Shots that miss should hit targets beyond the intended target.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 03, 2007, 06:21:17 pm
About Utwig shielding... Once an Utwig turns on its shields, he/she doesn't avoid the shots, but DESIRES to be hit and recharge the batteries. So I thought up this (if I'm getting the game mechanics correct):
Shields are turned on in the Reflex phase and last for the whole turn. A Piloting roll is used to determine whether the Utwig pilot manages to be hit by projectiles (success - the ship is hit and the shields are recharged, failure - the ship is missed and one turn's worth of battery capacity is lost).


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 03, 2007, 06:41:51 pm
1.  The Full Stop descriptor (from the Umgah Drone's Reverse Jump) should have been in the Androsynth text.  Oversight.
2.  Yes, wrapping is used.
3.  Chenjesu ALREADY has lousy PILOT.  I don't see what need there is to make it worse.
4.  Lasers, keep in mind you're not just defending against the lasers (which are, in fact, an automatic hit) but the other player's reflexes.  Can you teleport BEFORE the opponent fires.  The PILOT (and ATTACK) dice include much more than the simple math used in the game.
5. Misses hitting other targets.  Probably not.  If nothing else, because line of fire is abstracted (straight shooting weapons can effectively shoot a little to the left or right) it's complicated to determine the EXACT line of fire to see if other ships are hit.

As for the Utwig shield, it SHOULD have read PILOT die is rolled regardless to determine fuel regeneration.  This is an oversight.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 03, 2007, 07:10:08 pm
About inertia - thrust and inertia should not be cumulative. I mean, if  you move, say, three hexes forward, you should not move in the same turn's inertia phase the three hexes forward, because thrust means really simply modifying your inertia, so your max speed in a single turn should be equal to your thrust speed unless you use a Gravity Whip.
I mean:
Hexes moved via Thrust | Hexes moved via Inertia in the same turn  (assuming initial inertia 3)
0                                             3
1                                             2
2                                             1
3                                             0
(still, your inertia will still be 3 after the turn, it just doesn't effect anything/so much in that turn since the thrust makes all/part of the propulsion job)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 03, 2007, 07:25:18 pm
Also, turning should also subtract from your remaining thrust points in that turn, because, say, if you have 3 Thrust and 2 Turn, consider that in UQM using 3 Thrusts + 2 Turns will take longer than simply using 3 Thrusts: you must first thrust and only afterwards you can start turning, and while you turn you will still move out of inertia.
So: Ship using 3 Thrust/1 game turn:                   3 hexes forward       Time required: 3 time units
       Ship using 3 Thrust + 2 Turn / 1 game turn: 3 hexes forward + say 2 hexes forward out of inertia + 2 turns  Time required: 5 time units

So you can see that these different turns last different time intervals. So you must use my suggestion.  :)

Additionally, inertia should be like this (I'm not sure if it would be a good idea though): If in a turn you move 3 hexes north and 1 hex northwest, your inertia is 3 N + 1 NW, i.e. you move 3 N and 1 NW each turn with that inertia.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 03, 2007, 08:00:02 pm
I'm aware of the potential doubling up of thrust and inertia. I'm still trying to think of how to handle that simply.  However, keep in mind this is a board game and not a second by second computer game reenactment.  It's more important to keep the game fun and fast than to painstakingly recreate UQM's inertial law.

But I really hate to see, say, a Pkunk abuse inertia...10 hexes a turn is ugly.  As it stands, I can't think of an easy way to curb this usage.  Again, any major math during the movement/inertia phases should be highly discouraged.

I thought about making inertia "forced spending of THRUST points"  ie. if you have a N Inertia of 2 hexes, you automatically deduct two THRUST points before your movement phase.

The obvious problem is if you ever move your full movement in one direction, you'd be stuck moving that way FOREVER.

Another idea is to subtract half your inertia from your THRUST...but eh...I expressed how much I hate additional math.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 03, 2007, 08:22:55 pm
There's no need of calculus/18th degree equations here...  ;D

Why would it be so hard to calculate this? It's that simple:
Thrust=Max Speed in a Turn (Movement + Inertia phases) (KEEP IN MIND, I MEAN MAX THRUST, NOT THE THRUST YOU ACTUALLY USED IN THAT TURN)
Movement due to inertia decreases for that turn only in order not to go beyond the Max Speed in a Turn.
(without inertia actually decreasing)
For Gravity Whip speed boosts... you should first make the rule and then think of the inertia thing.

There's still a question you have to answer:
Turning should also subtract from your remaining thrust points in that turn, because, say, if you have 3 Thrust and 2 Turn, consider that in UQM using 3 Thrusts + 2 Turns will take longer than simply using 3 Thrusts: you must first thrust and only afterwards you can start turning, and while you turn you will still move out of inertia.
So: Ship using 3 Thrust/1 game turn:                   3 hexes forward
       Time required: 3 time units
_______________________________________________________________________________________
       Ship using 3 Thrust + 2 Turn / 1 game turn: 3 hexes forward + say 2 hexes forward out of inertia + 2 turns
       Time required: 5 time units (3 for thrust, 2 for turning the ship)

So you can see that these different turns last different time intervals. This means that turning should also cost thrust points, in order not to use more actions (turning/thrusting) than you can in one movement phase (not more actions than your thrust rating). So if you want to turn, you should sacrifice a bit of the thrust you would have liked to use in that turn.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 03, 2007, 08:38:07 pm
I already answered the second question.  This is not a second-by-second computer game reenactment.  ;D  If you wanna play the computer game, play it.  I don't see the point in painstakingly accounting for the time it takes to turn, where every movement phase becomes a careful balancing of points.  Just move and turn.  It works.  It's simple.  Everything doesn't have to be a 100% accurate.

As for inertia...I'm not sure if I understand what you mean.  Are you saying to cap the amount you can move in any direction? (ie. a ship with 2 N and a max thrust of 2 could still move 2 hexes in its turn, just not in the N direction?)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 04, 2007, 04:14:20 am
Okay, updated rules with everything except:

1) PD Laser and other "attacking" reflex actions like the Avenger Hellfire is still ill-defined for dealing with stuff like Fusion Blasts and lasers.
2) Guardian bubble still blows (haha)
3) Fury Resurrection has not been attended to.
4) Inertia rules have not been revisited.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 04, 2007, 08:17:27 am
OK, now I see. If you were to accept my suggestion with the turning that costs thrust points, it would have been more difficult for the player to make sideways attacks. I surrender.

Quote from: Clay
As for inertia...I'm not sure if I understand what you mean.  Are you saying to cap the amount you can move in any direction? (ie. a ship with 2 N and a max thrust of 2 could still move 2 hexes in its turn, just not in the N direction?)
No. I had two suggestions for inertia:
1. One that I have decided to drop out: Inertia can have also directions like NNW, SSE etc. No need for details, it's a bad idea.
2-1. First, a question about inertia. In your rules, inertia remains just for a turn or until the ship applies greater thrust and thus changes it? For if it's the latter, if you have just applied a Thrust of 5 N, you would be stuck going 5 N forever in the Inertia Phase!!!
2. About the second thing, with doubling up thrust and inertia, my idea works only if inertia stays there indefinitely. To make it stay there indefinitely without remaining stuck at the maximum value, you can do like this:
Initial Inertia: 0
Thrust: 5 N
Inertia: 5 N
-turn end-
Thrust: 3 S
Inertia: 5 N - 3 S = 2 N
-turn end-
Thrust: 3 NE
Inertia: 2 N + 3 NE

But it's painstaking to make these calculations each turn, I agree.
I think that your Inertia Law should be re-thought from scratch.
There are, as somebody mentioned, other boardgame with inertia. Some ideas there may be applied here.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 07, 2007, 05:25:59 pm
I already answered the second question.  This is not a second-by-second computer game reenactment.  ;D  If you wanna play the computer game, play it.  I don't see the point in painstakingly accounting for the time it takes to turn, where every movement phase becomes a careful balancing of points.  Just move and turn.  It works.  It's simple.  Everything doesn't have to be a 100% accurate.

It needed to be said. Bogging this game down in excessive math would do a good job of killing it. Keeping it fast and simple sounds like the best recipe for keeping it fun.

As for inertia, here are my ideas. For the first, every ship should have a maximum normal speed, which is equal to their THRUST value (assuming a lack of outside influences, such as planetary gravity, movement abilities, etc.). When a ship is moving at full throttle in a given direction, inertia should not allow it to exceed this speed. So, a minor adjustment to the inertia rules:

Instead of making inertia moves at the start of every new turn, have them occur at the end of the turn, after all actions are complete. As before, inertia should move ships based on their previous heading, but only up to their maximum speed. This is similar to, or the same as, the proposal Valaggar put forward. It seems like a reasonable way to handle it, but the system does have some quirks that make little sense at times. Let's take some examples (since my explanation on its own kind of sucks), including a few that illustrate said shortcomings.

Example 1: The aformentioned Pkunk, with a THRUST of 5 and unlimited TURN. It starts off moving 5 N. At the end of the phase, it makes no inertia move, since it moved at maximum speed (and had no inertia anyway, but let's assume it was picking up off of an existing turn). Next turn, it turns NE and moves 5. Once again, no inertia move is made; the engines of the Fury are powerful enough to make inertia from its previous course negligible. On the next turn, it turns to face SE, and only applies 3 THRUST. Since it hasn't used its full allotment of thrust, it will make an inertia move at the end of its turn. Its heading in the last turn was 5 NE, but it used 3 thrust points during the turn. So the final inertia move would be to drift 2 NE. Since its dominant heading for the turn was the 3 SE, this will be used to determine its inertia for the next turn.

Example 2: The significantly slower and less manuverable Kohr-Ah, with THRUST 3 and TURN 2. It starts off moving 3 N. No inertia move is made since all THRUST points have been used. On the next turn, it turns SW and moves 3. Now, normally one would expect a clunky ship like the Marauder to drift significantly during this manuver, but according to this ruleset, it has used its maximum thrust, so no inertia move is made (this is quirk #1). On the next turn, the Marauder turns to SE and moves 2. Since it hasn't used its full allotment of thrust, it makes an inertia move of 1 SW to make up the difference. On its next turn, its inertia will be considered to be 2 SE.

Example 3: The nimble Spathi, which has THRUST and TURN 5. It starts off moving 5 N, so no inertia move is made. On its next turn, it turns to S and moves 5, essentially reversing its last move completely; the Eluder has powerful engines, and I'm sure we've all seen them do this in-game. No inertia move is made. On the next turn, the Eluder pulls yet another 180, but only moves 3 N. Since it hasn't used its full allotment of THRUST points, it will need to make an inertia move. However, because its last heading was 5 S, inertia will carry it 2 S, which basically means that the ship jumped forward 3 hexes, and then back 2, for a net movement of 1 N (this is quirk #2, and much nastier than the first). This technique is very easily abusable. If the Eluder's opponent was a slower ship (as it most likely will be), the pilot could fire his weapon at the apex of their movement, and then allow inertia to carry them backwards and out of the range of their target.

These quirks have led me to look at a different (and somewhat more complex) way of handling the inertia movement. It involves making inertia moves *during* the pilot's movement phase. Like the above, it caps a ship's maximum speed when moving at full throttle. However, it involves making inertia moves any time thrust is applied in a different direction as said inertia. Under this system, the net movement is used to determine inertia, with applied thrust always being dominant over inertia when applicable. Once again, my explanation is crap, so I'll reuse the same examples as above to try to illustrate.

Example 1: The Pkunk Fury, THRUST 5, unlimited TURN. It starts off moving 5 N, and so makes no inertia move (let's assume it was heading that way before). Next turn, it turns NE and moves 5. However, because its inertia is 5 N, it will need to deal with that as it moves. So for each hex the pilot moves the Fury NE, it is also immediately moved N one hex by inertia (leading to the move looking something like this: NE - N - NE - N - NE - N - NE - N - NE - N. This set of inertia rules has a much more obvious and profound impact on the motion of the ship). Next turn, the Fury turns SE and moves 3. Once again, it staggers its move with the inertia from last turn (5 NE, since I will assume that the thrust of last turn is always dominant over the inertia applied for these rules). However, since the Fury only moved 3 hexes, and has 5 hexes of inertia, once it completes its normal move plus staggering from inertia, it will also drift 2 NE at the end of its move. On the next turn, the Fury will be considered to have an inertia of 3 SE (since thrust is dominant despite the inertial movement being greater; if the inertia was dominant, and any ship moved at maximum speed, they would be trapped in that inertial heading unless they applied equal thrust ina different direction to override it). It bears mentioning that in-game, the Fury would never make turns this gradually (this could be considered quirk #1).

Example 2: The Kohr-Ah Marauder, 3 THRUST, 2 TURN. The Marauder starts out moving 3 N, and no inertial move is made. On the next turn, it turns to SW and moves 3. Once again, its movement is staggered with its inertia, so it moves SW - N - SW - N - SW - N. This more accurately reflects the gradual turns one expects a big, clunky ship like the Marauder to take. Next turn, the Marauder turns SE and moves 2. Since its inertia is 3 SW, it staggers its movement again, and adds the extra hex of SW movement at the end. Its inertia for the next turn will be 2 SE.

Example 3: The Spathi Eluder, THRUST and TURN 5. It starts outmoving 5 N, and no inertial move is made. Next turn, it turns to S, and applies 5 THRUST. Because its inertia is already 5 N, it will alternate its thrust and inertia moves, essentially giving it a net movement of 0 hexes (full stop), and causing its next turn to be free of the influence of inertia. When it turns N and moves 3 on its next turn, it will not be influenced in any way by inertial forces. However, it bears mentioning that fast ships like the Eluder would not have to slow down this gradually to perform a 180 degree turn, as they are known for being able to revers direction nearly instantaneously in UQM (this could be considered quirk #2).

That's what I've come up with, pros and cons of each included. It almost seems to me like the upper system would apply better to faster and more manuverable ships, while the lower system applies better to the slower, clunkier ships.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 08, 2007, 08:34:06 pm
Collisions will be included with the planetary rules.

I'll comment on inertia once I have time to really think it over.  I've personally played two games with inertia rules.  One when I was like...ten...and I don't even remember it besides they were so horridly complicated that neither my brother (much older than me) nor I ever touched it again.  The other was Silent Death, a game much more similar to what I'm attempting with the UQM boardgame.  Unfortunately, I no longer have a rulebook...so I'd have to do some net research to find out how they did it, exactly.

For now, I'm working on tokens...I'll have a more coherent response when I post those!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 08, 2007, 08:56:00 pm
Okay, finished.  Keep in mind these were done fairly quickly from what I had to work with.  (Many are lifted from the graphics enhancement thread, some are poor copies directly from the game).  But they'll do, for now.  Certainly the "real deal" will look far better.

Anyway, these are inch-hex tokens.  If you use the program I mentioned before, make sure you print out maps with inch hexes.  4 letter-sized sheets taped together should do.

For in game tokens for stuff like Torch flames and Marauder shurikens, just grab some pennies. ^_^

Finally, I recommend printing the tokens on some kind of posterboard or cardstock, and to make the Guardian / X-form two-sided for easy flipping in game.

Still thinking on inertia...Main reason I'm hesitant to ditch the "inertia" phase is because it allows ships to "set up" other ships.  ie. You know ship X is going to move two hexes SW next turn.  Let me shoot a shuriken there, hehe!!

If you take that out, that little bit of strategy is gone (and the Torch is ENTIRELY worthless as written)

Edit: Uh...link might help.  http://www.wiseturtle.com/sc2tokens.jpg


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 08, 2007, 11:18:44 pm
I understand what you mean about losing the element of strategy your inertia rules provide. I think the only reason that alternatives are being suggested are because of the exploits inherent in them (ie. the Pkunk moves 10 hexes with inertia and thrust combined), and because they don't seem to represent how the ships behave in UQM very accurately. Then again, the same could be said about both of my alternatives (and I doubt we'll ever be able to accurately replicate inertia from UQM in a tabletop ruleset), and the project is yours to make the decisions on, so feel free to ignore us all at any time. ;)

As far as the tokens go, they look pretty nice for a start. It would be great if some of the talented artists here were willing to go and finish up the ships that haven't been enhanced yet, so that they all have a uniformity of appearance (I would love to help, but sadly, I don't fall into that "talented artist" category).

A couple of suggestions about the tokens, however:

1) While we intrinsically know the structure of the ships from playing UQM, someone who has never had that experience could easily become very confused as to the orientation of certain ships (the Eluder springs immediately to mind, but there are others as well). A simple way to remedy that would be a small white arrow pointing toward the front face of the token.
2) The Nemesis is going to require some means to keep track of the turret's facing. Perhaps a smaller "turret" token, or a clear hex token that can be laid over the top of the main one.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 09, 2007, 01:16:22 am
Hey Draxas,

I appreciate your faith, but if I were to take a "My way or the highway" attitude, there'd be little point in me posting at all.  ;D  If I try to defend something, it's not because I'm not open to changes, but merely because I wanted to clarify why I did a certain thing and, perhaps, what I'd want to include while fixing it.  I definitely appreciate you and Valagger taking an interest in the rules.

Regarding the tokens, if this were ever finished to a point I could present the concept for TFB and they'd green light it, I would commission new artwork for all the tokens so they'd be of a consistent (and at least for my minis, superior) style.  I'd also put more effort into the design, including a starry background and, yes, facing indicators.  Heck, I had trouble telling the Spathi front from back!

As for the Orz, being printed on the cheap paper most of us will, will make stacking tokens not likely to work well.  For now, just use a penny (or other marker) to indicate turret facing.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 09, 2007, 03:26:06 pm
As stated in the rules, you always take the most recent movement.  So if your inertia phase is 5N, and that turn you move 5NW, your new inertia is 5NW.

Even so, yes, it's problematic.  I'm sure there's an elegant solution.  It's just (Spathi) eluded me so far.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 09, 2007, 06:21:03 pm
Hey Draxus,

There is no U in my SN (pet peeve, sorry). Moving on.

Quote
I appreciate your faith, but if I were to take a "My way or the highway" attitude, there'd be little point in me posting at all.  ;D  If I try to defend something, it's not because I'm not open to changes, but merely because I wanted to clarify why I did a certain thing and, perhaps, what I'd want to include while fixing it.  I definitely appreciate you and Valagger taking an interest in the rules.

Unfortunately, that open minded position is going to get us suggesting all of this stuff, so when you get tired of us, just tell us to shut our pie-holes. ;)

Sadly, I've pretty much taxed my brain on the inertia question, so I can't think of a good solution that incorporates all of the elements we're looking for... So, that's all I'm going to say about that until the situation changes.

Quote
Regarding the tokens, if this were ever finished to a point I could present the concept for TFB and they'd green light it, I would commission new artwork for all the tokens so they'd be of a consistent (and at least for my minis, superior) style.  I'd also put more effort into the design, including a starry background and, yes, facing indicators.  Heck, I had trouble telling the Spathi front from back!

The white arrow I mentioned is a pretty simple but useful addition, even for this very preliminary stage. Considering that anyone I would play-test the game with would have little to no knowledge of UQM, they would be a big help if you could add them in.

Quote
As for the Orz, being printed on the cheap paper most of us will, will make stacking tokens not likely to work well.  For now, just use a penny (or other marker) to indicate turret facing.

I have something lying around that I can make do with, so it's no big deal. It's just an item for future consideration is all.

As far as tokens go in the future, however, I have no doubt that they could be done up in a uniform art style to suit the game itself. Then again (being a tabletop dork from years ago), I could see an even more interesting (though certainly more impractical, at least from a production standpoint) option being the use of custom plastic miniatures, including a few with moving parts (the Orz turret, or swing wings on the X-Form). I realize that's a pipe dream, but it certainly would make for a nice presentation to the game.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 09, 2007, 10:24:12 pm
This whole battle system may also perfectly fit into an RPG, and there are all those Captain/Crew quirks that Clay mentioned before...


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on March 10, 2007, 02:17:58 am
Quote
I could see an even more interesting (though certainly more impractical, at least from a production standpoint) option being the use of custom plastic miniatures, including a few with moving parts (the Orz turret, or swing wings on the X-Form). I realize that's a pipe dream, but it certainly would make for a nice presentation to the game.

I love that idea so much haha, I wonder if theres a way to make em yourself, haha!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: hammersmith on March 12, 2007, 01:20:57 pm
You know what, I like very mluch of the idea of an SC2 RPG, but I would even more like to READ a BOOK about SC2.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Novus on March 12, 2007, 07:03:03 pm
You know what, I like very mluch of the idea of an SC2 RPG, but I would even more like to READ a BOOK about SC2.
Have you tried Interbellum? ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 12, 2007, 07:09:01 pm
An Ur-Quan sitting in a bar?  :-X :o ::)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 12, 2007, 09:38:22 pm
You know what, I like very mluch of the idea of an SC2 RPG, but I would even more like to READ a BOOK about SC2.
Have you tried Interbellum? ;D

Despite the fact that it would be next to impossible to find a copy at this point, you're still a bad, bad man.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 12, 2007, 10:38:49 pm
Draxas:  Sorry about that.  That was very careless of me.  I'll definitely add some arrows when I get around to it.

As for real miniatures...not on my budget LOL.  But it's always possible I can get a third party to pick up the game.  ;D But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

For now, use one of those paper-craft spinny things.  You know, the brass heads you poke through paper then open on the back, essentially creating an axle.  Usually used for arm and leg joints on flat paper people...but could make a rotating Howitzer in a pinch!

Did I mention my OTHER hair-brained idea was a SC2 Choose Your Own Adventure book? >_>


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 12, 2007, 11:09:55 pm
As for real miniatures...not on my budget LOL.  But it's always possible I can get a third party to pick up the game.  ;D But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Like I said, complete pipe dream, but it WOULD be awesome.

Quote
Did I mention my OTHER hair-brained idea was a SC2 Choose Your Own Adventure book? >_>

I would totally find the path to every single ending.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on March 13, 2007, 05:02:07 am
A blackhole appear infront of you, if you go through go to page 27. If you avoid it, go to page 45.
*flip to 27*
5 Ilwrath Avengers decloak around you and start melting your hull!! You can only watch as the Vindicator is melted to crud.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: HisDivineShadw on March 13, 2007, 08:59:10 am
"E) Now the big one.  Strategy game and scenarios.  In the vein of SC1, but with scenarios also based on major SC2 events."
                  When www.starconrpg.com was around there was a nice big story called the Brotherhood, it was about how all the races had to go coreward. Had lots of new races, artwork, story, what the percusers were scared of, it was not bad i thought. It was mostly the work of someone called goto10 or flubbo i think. It be cool if you could work in a plot to you game or something.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 13, 2007, 03:11:05 pm
In my game, since the Star Control monikers are still questionably trademarked, I am referring to SC1 era events as "The Ur-Quan Conflict" and SC2 as "The Ur-Quan Masters."  I'm thinking of billing the whole game as "The Ur-Quan Legacy" and creating additional scenarios...but I think that's thought for another day, and may not fly well with TFB, who are potentially doing this themselves.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 13, 2007, 04:03:34 pm
A blackhole appear infront of you, if you go through go to page 27. If you avoid it, go to page 45.
*flip to 27*
5 Ilwrath Avengers decloak around you and start melting your hull!! You can only watch as the Vindicator is melted to crud.

Boo! Where are my Hellbore Cannons? Bah!

*Turns back to original saved page and tries the other route.*


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 13, 2007, 07:56:49 pm
Is it me or there is not as big a difference between arc 3 and arc 1?

Not enough.  When I make an actual ruleset, arc 3 will be redesigned with a graphical diagram that offers are much more significant cone.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 13, 2007, 08:16:40 pm
The beginning of the adventure would be like,
"(1)You enter the Solar system, the cradle of Humanity. You've never been here before, and you feel a bit nervous. What's Earth like? What happened to her during all those years? Were the dreaded Ur-Quan that you've heard so much about defeated? No-one aboard knows the answers...
You decide to:
- Head straight to Earth (go to page xx)
- Explore other planets a bit before going to Earth (go to page yy)
- Leave the system - you feel that you forgot something important in Hyperspace (goto page zz)
"?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 13, 2007, 08:59:40 pm
Haha, I'm surprised so many of you are familiar with CYOA. ^^ I grew up on the stuff, and I always thought it had such potential if it weren't dummied down for a juvenile audience...be a real hit with the role-playing/old-school adventure game crowd.

Gah, don't get me started! I have enough to do. LOL


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Spektrowski on March 13, 2007, 09:42:37 pm
And think what might come out if you add your combat system into this adventure :) It'll be as replayable as the original game :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 13, 2007, 10:13:29 pm
I stopped liking the Choose Your Own Adventure books much after reading one with literally no happy ending.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 13, 2007, 10:24:19 pm
Luckiest Day of Your Life by any chance?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 13, 2007, 10:28:25 pm
No, something about a haunted house. Unless that's the same book.

I did like a similar series, called "Which Way?", because the options made more sense - a stupid choice was more likely to get you killed than a smart one. In CYOA, the options are usually pretty equivalent, and I would often have smart ideas that the book just left out. Aside from the luck factor and the occasional impossible CYOA book, the Which Way books were more challenging to win.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 14, 2007, 12:34:44 am
Nah, Luckiest Day of Your Life is ironically about finding a lucky prize at a carnival.  Some paths lead to a treasure map, others a magic luck stone, and so on.  However, almost any path where you use this lucky item to your advantage leads to a bad ending.  And of course, if you end up leaving it/throwing it away/etc. that's not entirely happy either.  A strange (and highly ironic) book.

CYOA got canned in the late 90s, but some company bought the name and brought it back like a year ago.  Entirely new series though.  (#1 is no longer The Cave of Time for instance.)

Never seen Which Way? Though I do own a couple of Lone Wolf and D&D books...


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on March 14, 2007, 02:28:55 am
The only choose your own adventure books I ever read were goosebumps ones haha. Good times!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 16, 2007, 05:39:20 pm
Plus, Umgahs regenerate too slow. 2 turns should be reasonable.
Additional suggestions:
1. For collisions: Assign a mass value to each ship. Collisions can only take place in the inertia phase.
To find the collision power of a ship, multiply its inertia with its mass.
For example, a Spathi with inertia 5 and mass 2 collides with an Umgah of inertia 1, mass 1.
Spathi has 10 CP, Umgah has 1.
So the result is that Spathi pushes the Umgah (without being itself affected) 10-1=9 hexes back.
2. Attack Ground: Attack a hex. The hex will be marked with a token. For that turn only (including inertia phase) any ship passing through will be damaged (still roll Attack, Pilot and Reflex dices as usual).
3. The Umgah Cone should have the trait to be activable for a turn (which means that the regen counter is reset, but the cone cannot be penetrated - it cannot miss in the Reflex phase unless it is attacked by a homing weapon).
4. Not all reflex weapons can stop any incoming projectile - for example, Ur-Quan Fusion Bolts pass through Umgah Antimatter Cones.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 17, 2007, 01:28:19 am
The Ariloulaleelay Jump should also be a Full Stop ability. If you don't believe me, test it in the game!

Considering the Ariloulaleelay has full-stop in GENERAL due to its inertia-less drive...seems kind of redundant.

Quote
1. For collisions: Assign a mass value to each ship. Collisions can only take place in the inertia phase.
To find the collision power of a ship, multiply its inertia with its mass.
For example, a Spathi with inertia 5 and mass 2 collides with an Umgah of inertia 1, mass 1.
Spathi has 10 CP, Umgah has 1.
So the result is that Spathi pushes the Umgah (without being itself affected) 10-1=9 hexes back.

So the Spathi knocks an umgah back more hexes than a Pkunk can move in a turn?  Seems iffy.

3. should work that way.  I'll clarify it.

4. Working on that.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 17, 2007, 12:10:03 pm
So the Spathi knocks an umgah back more hexes than a Pkunk can move in a turn?  Seems iffy.

I tried it in the game. One hit with a Spathi against an Umgah can knock it to about 2/3 the max normal speed of the Pkunk.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 17, 2007, 01:20:02 pm
Eh, this can be fixed by adjusting the mass values. This was just an example.
And sorry about the Full Stop - I was thinking in terms of EP-Mod's Arilou Arch-Mage.

Plus, after testing the game a bit, I found out that a program for playing it would be a very good idea - it removes the boring aspect of the game completely.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 17, 2007, 02:44:59 pm
Hey, I don't suppose anyone has the font used for headers in the SC2 manual?  I remember someone was making a remake of the manual targeted to UQM with it...but I never got the typeface from it.

I'm currently using Eurostile, which is nice, but it might be nice to have some SC-flavored fonts, too.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 17, 2007, 06:55:47 pm
Figured it's about time I get going on this.  Gonna start cleaning it up and make a proper game out of it to propose to TFB.  Here it is so far:

http://www.wiseturtle.com/uql.pdf

The little black bars on the right side indicate what chapter you're on, for easy flipping.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 17, 2007, 08:07:32 pm
No more than one ship per player in a single battle?!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 17, 2007, 08:13:11 pm
Multiship combat will be explained in an "advanced rules" section.  I was mainly presenting the design of the page than the text.  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on March 18, 2007, 02:02:26 am
Ooh, very slick formatting. I like it.

So you're serious about pitching this to TFB, huh? What are you planning to do about the inertia rules?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 18, 2007, 03:47:13 pm
I'm currently toying with a movement "cap."  Basically you can never move more than a total of six hexes in your movement and inertia phases.  It SORT of makes sense, because inertia is almost always less of a problem for small, fast ships than it is for slow, lumbering ships.  It still provides a "double-up" problem on some ships, so I still need to think about it.

As for a program...I am not a programmer, Valaggar.  If someone else would like to take up the torch, I'd surely cooperate.  But my knowledge of Visual Basic isn't enough to program a net-enabled board game.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 18, 2007, 03:56:49 pm
I wasn't referring specifically to you, Clay.
As to the movement cap... it looks like a very elegant solution to me.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on March 19, 2007, 02:17:18 am
Hmm, movement cap...that works.

Can't wait until this is actually finished!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 19, 2007, 04:48:14 pm
The PDF is very slick looking, nice job Clay. However, I can't help but wonder if I'm misssing something; I only see one page. Is there more done yet, or was this just a teaser?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 19, 2007, 06:42:20 pm
Yeah, it was just a teaser.  ;D  For the time being, this boardgame is something I fool around with in my free time.  I have other projects that I should be working on, so I'm trying to balance my time with them and with this.  This makes progress a little slow, but it seems to be what's on my mind most of the time.  Maybe I should give up work. LOL


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 19, 2007, 08:40:38 pm
No!! Do Not!!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 19, 2007, 09:08:47 pm
LOL.  Fret not Val.  I was referring to my real work, not the board game. ;p


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 19, 2007, 10:56:44 pm
While I'm sure we would all get more *important* things done without having to work, for those of us that are not independantly wealthy, that's mainly just conducive to starving to death, really.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Valaggar on March 20, 2007, 02:44:17 pm
Did I mention that Clay feeds on baked clay?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 20, 2007, 08:06:55 pm
New version:

http://www.wiseturtle.com/uqlnew.pdf

May be a while before I return to this.  I really have been neglecting other projects and they need my attention.  But it should, at least, explain the firing arcs. :)

And Val: Only if it tastes like Twinkies.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 20, 2007, 11:20:12 pm
The example boxes in the margins are genius, and the format looks great. I can't wait to see the finished product... Though if you're postponing work on it, I guess I'm going to have to.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on March 20, 2007, 11:50:01 pm
Man, that looks fantastic!!!! I wonder if there are custom stores that will make little miniature ships hehehehe


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 21, 2007, 03:06:44 am
Thanks for the kudos, y'all.  It's good to know it goes over well.

Anyway, Count!  I certainly can get miniatures made.  The problem is it would cost absurd amounts of money.  Getting each miniature sculpted alone would run me anywhere from 2-500 (space)bucks.  And getting the mass-produced! I don't even want to think about it.

Suffice it to say, it won't happen unless I manage to sell some RPG/boardgame company (like Fantasy Flight Games) on it...also unlikely.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on March 22, 2007, 02:38:01 am
Y'know, if TFB ends up backing this, they could probably comission some company to make minis.... ;D

Of course, that's still an "if" at this point, but it'd be awesome if it happened.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: countchocula86 on March 22, 2007, 04:21:59 am
Quote
Anyway, Count!  I certainly can get miniatures made.  The problem is it would cost absurd amounts of money.  Getting each miniature sculpted alone would run me anywhere from 2-500 (space)bucks.  And getting the mass-produced! I don't even want to think about it.

Hahah sadly this is true, but even if there was just a store/site where I personally could get a single set made for myself, I would be exstatic, hehe.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Clay on March 29, 2007, 10:07:48 pm
So has anyone tried it yet?  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: youBastrd on March 30, 2007, 12:11:37 am
Look cool! 

You should check out a classic board game that somewhat similar, Car Wars (http://www.sjgames.com/car-wars/).  It has similar features: a grid board (or at least the old version used to), little chits everywhere, somewhat complex movement system.  I can't speak to the "5th edition" but we did play games like this in the 80s when men were men and damage was d-sided.  :)

I attended at lecture by Steve Jackson at the GDC this year, and randomly bumped into him later to speak with him.  Cool guy!  His work is almost exclusively pen-and-paper games, so he has hardly any exposure to video games per se.  Still a lot of the game design principles are the same, whether it's manipulating tokens and using scrap paper or nerfing palys in WoW.  That's my little rant.  Anyhow you should check out these other pen-and-paper games if you haven't already.

I've been tossing around ideas for my own Star Control-themed board game.  It started out as just using that Magic card editor to make some cards just for laughs, but I revised it a few times to make it into a semi-playable form.  It's very different from what you have here, the combat in mine is fairly simple and also really unbalanced. :)  The focus in mine is more on the interaction between players, suprising the other players, and a bit more strategy.  I still haven't decided if it'll be GPL / Creative Commons or commercial, which is why I haven't posted much about it yet.  It also kinda stinks, but that's never been a reason not to post things online! :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on March 30, 2007, 06:15:17 pm
I have fond memories of playing Car Wars back in the 80s. Great stuff. However, I saw a newer edition of the game in a hobby shop recently, and I don't even recognize it anymore. Alas, another childhood memory dashed to pieces.

As for trying out THIS game... Well, I'd love to, but I would actually need someone to play against. Easier said than done. Of course, it doesn't help that the rules are still kind of incomplete; there are a lot of issues and ambiguities once you take a look at the individual ships, to say nothing of the glaring problems and missing pieces: inertia, planets, asteroids, etc.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: grundig on April 02, 2007, 12:15:07 am
I like the idea of a CCG for SC2. I've barely played it, but I'm really into making games. Personally, I'm no good at it, but that's beside the point! Perhaps you could approach the project from a 'for fun' stand point, and leave the printing to those who wish to play it. Maybe you can design pdfs that would print out on 8.5x11 business card stock. Or, you could make jpegs of the cards that would fit  severall onto a 4x6 picture, and players could just print them out at their local photo lab for 20 cents per 4x6. I'd be totally willing to print out 50 pictures for 10 dollars, then cut them up (with a paper cutter) and play! But that's me. You've got people all interested... There's no backing out now!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: youBastrd on April 02, 2007, 08:35:04 am
Hm, a star control card trading game would be awesome, but actually the one I'm designing doesn't have trading.  There are just stock decks that will come with the game.  The designs I have right now are just prototyped on the Magic cards because it was a nice tool for working with.  The requirements are pretty different.  Seeing the ships etc on magic cards is a nice laugh, but doesn't really match the rules. 

I'd love to have time to finish the design and do something with it, but there are only so many hours in the day. :(  If I do get somewhere with it I'll at the very least start a new thread about it.  I don't want to take away from Clay's thunder here. :)


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Chmmr on April 02, 2007, 09:29:40 am

Not sure how you could go about contacting TFB, are they even active on the internet anymore?

alexness@toysforbob.com


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Galactic on April 02, 2007, 03:37:56 pm
Supermelee sounds like a great idea for a turn-based fantasy board game.
And the page rulebook liiks kind of 'official'.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: AngusThermopyle on April 03, 2007, 08:00:27 pm
Hey, I don't suppose anyone has the font used for headers in the SC2 manual?  I remember someone was making a remake of the manual targeted to UQM with it...but I never got the typeface from it.

I'm currently using Eurostile, which is nice, but it might be nice to have some SC-flavored fonts, too.

Clay, I was/am working on the manual project. PM me for the font information.

Nice looking teaser, btw!


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: NonesuchPlace on April 14, 2010, 09:21:35 am
I know this is pretty much a dead topic, and I know that I haven't introduced myself, but I feel that I can breathe new life into this with quite a bit of ease.

A few years back (2005, to be precise,) I was working on a tactical boardgame inspired by Twilight Imperium.  It was meant to be faster paced, with less focus on the tech and infrastructure, more on the tactical nature of space combat.  It went through many different forms, finally settling on the very simple form that it exists in today.  Hidden away in my backup files on one of my hard-drives.

It is a one dice game, using 6-sided dice (but that could be changed if a step system was demanded.)  It had (in its beta form) identical races with now bonuses or negatives, but there was a plan for a system where you could customise any of the player races with a series of cards that you picked at the beginning of the game.  These cards would allow you to use special ships, form special fleets, build special buildings, or use one-off special boons.  In the state that it exists in the manual, it is a tile-based board.  In the last notes I have for it, I have provisions for a tile-and-strip setup where the long strips are interstellar space, which is big, takes time to cross, and you are not likely to run into anyone else out there.  That could be changed if it fits better wher fleets automatically meet when they cross interstellar space in opposite directions.

Basically, I have a system that could be modded to be a SC game.  It is under a CC license, and I will post it if there is enough interest here to help mod the system.  I've already done the gruntwork, which has made a slim and easy to play system: what we need now is the color that will turn it into the game that you want.

Anyone interested?


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Lukipela on April 14, 2010, 08:34:35 pm
I'm certainly intrigued. If you kick this off I'll do my best to help out even though I have my spoon in quite a few SC projects already. I'd maybe suggest trying over at the SCDB Mod forum (http://=http://www.star-control.com/community/viewforum.php?f=9) as well, especially if you just want people to give input and suggestions.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: NonesuchPlace on April 15, 2010, 01:32:17 am
Quote from: Lukipeia
I'm certainly intrigued. If you kick this off I'll do my best to help out even though I have my spoon in quite a few SC projects already. I'd maybe suggest trying over at the =http://www.star-control.com/community/viewforum.php?f=9SCDB Mod forum as well, especially if you just want people to give input and suggestions.

That is really the approach that I have taken with game-making in the past.
I'll start going through my HDDs to find the pdfs of the game, and the notes that I have.  I'd like some assistance people who are interested in helping out with art (Screengrabbed or new pixelart would be cool,) making the race-mod cards, and people to help out with balance testing, but that should be it.

I am very new to the whole Ur-Quan Masters scene, so pardon me when I ask a lot of questions.  (Although I have been going through the wiki pretty much non-stop.  Between that and the whole getting ready for college thing, I've been able to stay not-bored.)

[EDIT: Asked, not told.]


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Draxas on April 15, 2010, 02:06:07 am
I am always happy to help with game ideas, especially creative and balance (not art, though). Just ask Luki.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Lukipela on April 15, 2010, 08:07:51 pm
Just ask Luki.

Yeah you're a real champ. Now get back to writing units for my game!

/me cracks whip

Anyway, there are a few dedicated MTG (http://www.star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=93) fans over on the SCDB, I'm sure they could be convinced to help out with cards and stuff. I can help you out with screengrabs of ships easily enough by pointing you to this page on the PNF

Resources page (http://star-control.com/fan/resources.php)

There are all the GFX of ships from Timewarp. For other original GFX the Ultronomicon (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Main_Page) is quite good. New art is trickier though.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Steve-O on April 21, 2010, 04:07:32 pm
That is really the approach that I have taken with game-making in the past.
I'll start going through my HDDs to find the pdfs of the game, and the notes that I have.  I'd like some assistance people who are interested in helping out with art (Screengrabbed or new pixelart would be cool,) making the race-mod cards, and people to help out with balance testing, but that should be it.

I'm definitely intrigued by this project, enough so to at least want to take a look at the rules, if you have them in some convenient text format.  I'd also be willing to lend a hand with art.  I'm no master of digital artwork, mind you, but I have a long history of fiddling with board game ideas and trying to make game tokens for them.

I've already taken the liberty of downloading the 2D art from the link Luki provided.  I don't really have a lot of skill at drawing my own art, but I can photoshop existing art pretty well, I think.  As long as this remains a non-profit venture I don't think TFB would have an issue with it, based on their past statements regarding fan work.  Once I have a feel for the kinds of game components needed, I'll draw up a few examples and you can decide if you want me to do more or not.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Lukipela on April 21, 2010, 09:34:22 pm
I've already taken the liberty of downloading the 2D art from the link Luki provided.  I don't really have a lot of skill at drawing my own art, but I can photoshop existing art pretty well, I think.  As long as this remains a non-profit venture I don't think TFB would have an issue with it, based on their past statements regarding fan work.  Once I have a feel for the kinds of game components needed, I'll draw up a few examples and you can decide if you want me to do more or not.

I'm actually really happy that some of the resources page may come in handy. that was exactly the point for putting it there, to help out with gfx for projects like this.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: CaptainRichard on April 23, 2010, 09:28:17 pm
I have extensive experience writing RPG scenarios and stories.      I can offer my talent as a writer in that regards once you decide on a game mechanic...    This would be a great way to re-work Star Control 3 into something that doesn't frustrate and annoy.      Or we could come up with a series of stand-alone adventures... or a unique campaign setting.

Only catch is I'm going into the Military for Great Glorious Service To God, Country And For Vigorous Sign-Up Bonus...    So I'll be unable to communicate with the Civilian World for 16 weeks starting May 3rd.

Feel free to pick my brain in the meantime in regards to game mechanics.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Steve-O on May 05, 2010, 03:53:32 pm
NonesuchPlace:

It's been a little while now and I'm still curious about helping you with this board/card game idea.  Have you collected the rules you were talking about before?  Can they be posted on some sort of download site for us to take a look at, or would you prefer to share them via email instead?  I'm not sure if I was entirely clear in my previous post, but I had wanted to take a look at the rules in order to get a feel for what kinds of game components to make before I started working on such.


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: Lukipela on May 06, 2010, 07:50:46 pm
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see that material...


Title: Re: Star Control - The RPG/Board Game
Post by: psydev on November 30, 2010, 03:56:23 am
I downloaded "uqlnew.pdf" from a couple of pages back but it's only 3 pages long. Is there supposed to be a bigger file with ship art and more rules etc?