The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

How exactly do the Chmmr reproduce? Think about it. The Chenjesu probably reproduced similar to the way a real crystal does.. maybe they break a small piece of themselves off, and place it somewhere where a whole Chenjesu can crystallize around the piece. And the Mrmnmrhm were built by Mother Ark. Okay. But now, they're combined... but how could the crystal part and the mechanical part be produced simultaneously? Wouldn't the crystal part just grow into a Chenjesu? And it seems like without Mother Ark they still shouldn't be able to build more of the mechanical parts.

The mechanical parts probably have self-replication info built into them designed to grow when the seed crystal grows, compensating for faults and lacks in the crystalline matrices and enhancing other parts.

That doesn't fit the story: somewhere in the backstory it says that the Mrrmhrrm were built by the Mother Ark, and once it broke down, they couldn't make any more.  Self-replication, it can be inferred from that, is an ability they do not possess, unless the Chenjesu gave it to them (they're smart enough blokes, though, so why not?).

Yes, the Chenjesu WERE smart blokes, and therein is the key word:  WERE.  The Chenjesu and Mhrrnmhrrm are, individually, no more.  The Chmmr are a completely new race, formed by the MERGING (not co-existance or symbiotic relationship) of the two previous races.

Thus, the Chmmr should be viewed as a single race with unique attributes and abilities.

As far as I see it, the merging of crystalline and mechanical resulted in a metallocrystalline being, which would easily be able to reproduce asexually, somewhat like the Chenjesu originally did.  On a molecular level, the Chmmr are probably metal- and carbon-based, with their atoms arranged in a complex crystal structure.

Touche.  Ignoring the plot point in SC3 where they were "shattered" into their component races, it's safe to assume that they are a completely new hybrid race, and as such, that "all bets are off".  If one does not ignore the SC3 "shattering", however, a more, erm, "conventional" symbiotic relationship should probably be assumed.


Just to be pedantic, I'm gonna have to vote for "metal- and silicon-" instead, since neither of the original races were carbon-based. :P

I wonder if there are any Chenjesu and Mrmnmhrm that didn't want to undergo to process.  It seems to me that it's likely some of them didn't want to be merged with someone else into a new species, there were likely Chenjesu that wouldn't want their entire race to cease to exist as they know it, especially since they didn't NEED the merge to survive, and it also seems like there would be both Chenjesu and Mrmnmhrm that would believe that Mother Ark could eventually be repaired.

Yeah but neither race seems very individualistic. I'm sure they looked at the situation with cold machine/crystalline logic and said we're going to make ourselves much better by doing this, so what's the point in keeping apart?

Well I think most of us don't view information from SC3 as canon. At least that's the image I've gotten out of the people here.

I don't know about the Mmrnmhrm, but the Chenjesu had individuality. Hayes says something about a Chenjesu archiologist that was trying to study the remains of the Taalo civilization, but couldn't because the Androsynth were there. It seems to me that if a human knows the name of a specific Chenjesu that wasn't doing anything involved with humanity, they can't be THAT individualistic.

What bothers me is that the chmmr aren't in every case superior to the Chenjesu or Mmrnhrm. Therefore, the two races should probably realized that diversity is a greater power than individual power, especially when it comes to fighting... umm... what ARE Chenjesu or Mmrnhrm better at fighting than Chmmr?
hmm.

Utwig....they eat Chmmr for breakfast...

That's a nice subplot idea for a possible sequel. For example, the player meets a Chenjesu or Mmrnmhrm patrol which was sent on a long-range mission before the Process started and got stranded somehow, and never manged to return to Procyon...

I just wish the splitting process had succeeded, completely. Though the chmmr might be powerful, it is not a ship I enjoy playing with or against. Then I'd get the Broodhome and X-form back to toast those Heralds with. The X-form would be good at that, I imagine. Of course, I had no trouble since the upgraded Doog were unstoppable...  :: shudder:: let us speak no more of this.

That reproduction is an interesting problem. One possible thing is, that the Chenjesu had studied the Mmrnmhrm mechanical blueprints or something. After that, something of the Chenjesu knowledge must have passed to the Chmmr and so, as said, they break a small piece of the crystalline body and build the mechanical parts on it.

Or do they even reproduce? Or are the Chmmr made in some factories, so the mechanical/electornic parts would be inside as the Chmmr individual is "born".

Remember that the Starbase at Procyon was empty and that the servants who were supposed to run the base somehow slid through the shield to join the process...

Yeah, but if some of them were on a _Forever War_-style mission, then they could be getting back AFTER the destruction of the Sa-Matra.

Could be, but as the Chenjesu and the Mmrhmmrm tell you, they knew they have no chance to fight the Sa-Matra and were not willing to risk the life of their complete population just to have some entities of Mmrhmmrm and some Chenjesu running wild. Therefor i guess that all remaining Chenjesu and Mmrhmmrm were at Procyon. Unless they are well hidden. BTW: The slave-rules are that all people of one kind must be enslaved on one planet. Our luck the Ur-Quan just didn't destroy us immediatly after they've found Unzervalt.  Maybe just because the 2nd doctrinal war is on the run.

Well, since they had already put the shield up around Earth it was a little too late, wasn't it? Lastly, don't you think it's ConCEIVABLE that some chenjesu and/or Mmrnhrm were sent on a long range mission, lost power and crash landed somewhere they managed to eke out an extended existence, and went unnoticed by the Kzer-Za? After all, Tanaka did it, and he even had a space ship! Way to go unnoticed.

Of course it is. Look at Vela, that's a stranded long range mission as well.
And Tanaka and his brother Katana just survived the blaze of glory, because they were just on the rim of the explosion.

And the shield up and around earth is fine, but Cmdr. Hayes told us, that the Ur-Quan arrive every so many years to uplift the shield and to exchange the crew aboard the starbase as well as resupply the base with new energy. They've simply had no time to do so due to the conflict with the Korh-Ah. But just the existance of another human colony would be enough for me to control what's going on on earth. Just to make sure, that all slaves are still obedient. And a checkup that this resupply is overdue cannot take so long. This way the Ur-Quan could have stopped the slave revolt quite early. Just our luck that they have a very unflexible bureaucracy.

C Ya

When you say, "me" who are you speaking as?

Anyway, all we were suggesting is that some chenjesu and/or mmrnhrm were stranded, like the vela expedition, and are later found after all ofthe others have converted to chmmr.

Some leftover Mmrnmhrm and Chenjesu would be a cool subplot for SC:Timewarp... assuming Timewarp ever comes together.

No problem...           What i meant with "me" was if I were the Ur-Quan and found out about a ship leaving Vela....

Wouldn't it be possible for these scenarios:

1) The Chenjesu and Mmrnmrhrm (sp?) analyzed their own build, and the Chenjesu, after some research, discovered that it was possible to replicate the Mmrnmrhrm parts provided that it was altered slightly and bonded with a Chenjesu, thus bringing about a Chmmr?

2) Metal is crystalline in structure. That is, it has a structure similar to that of crystals and resembles a crystal formation at high magnification. It is totally possible that given enough raw materials/'nutrition', a completely new Chmmr can be synthesised from parts of a Chenjesu and Mmrnmrhrm. Of course the sentience may require some 'parent' circuits from the Mmrnmrhrm's part, but it is totally feasible. So while the 'first' generation Chmmr (and possibly second) are still seperatable hybrids, future generations may become inextricably bonded.

Just some ideas.

Krulle:
I guess the first answer is that you intercept the Dreadnought that discovered the colony, so no response is possible.
When they SEE you, I guess they're too busy with a doctrinal war.

Death_999:
The Ur-Quan seem to have the ability to transmit long-range messages as well as sending emergency beacons.
The other Ur-Quans also know that some humans are free, flying around and battling some Ur-Quan battle-groups. They warn you that they won't tolerate this behaviour much longer (next time it will be the annihilation of your species).
Even if i were at war, a single dreadnought could be spared to do a checkup on earth. Even a single one can be spared to patrol vela.

What i meant is: What i would do if i were a master_?X? in that bureaucracy.

And that long range mission thing: The Chenjesu and the Mmrnmhrm went under one shield, because they planned to be enslaved as one. They must have been planning this for a longer time (the mother-ark broke down several hundred years ago, not just recently). Cold machinery-logic: More Machines to merge -> more Chmmrs to emerge. Same counts for Chenjesu.  In a mixed Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrmm long range mission, the Chenjesu would know of the process (natural hyperwave receivers) and start it wherever they are.  And the Chenjesu wanted it to get new aspects of philosophy.....
And if it were planned since a few years, you wouldn't start some long-range patrols (i guess that's why humans were sent to vela, not Chenjesu-people, who definetly know more about the precursors than humans).

Good answers. Let's see if we can make the game consistent again.
What they see is a big Precursor ship. This can clearly not be made at an Ur-Quan-built starbase. Thus, there is no reason to suspect that Sol is their base of operations. Anyway, they haven't heard any alarming reports from either the Spathi or the Ilwrath sent to keep tabs on the Earthlings, so it would seem most likely that they are based elsewhere, at some precursor installation. A search would take a long time - it can be dealt with later.

Back on the long-range thing: There are several reasons not to do that.
First, the process may render them vulnerable for an extended period of time. In that sense, the slave shield was a blessing. Like the Spathi, they used it to be safe.
Second, the process would have taken a LONG time, but for the use of the sun device. SO, these explorers would finish it a long time from now. Thousands of years?
What might be interesting is if they had a DIFFERENT result than the others - A sort of Mmnrnjesu insead of Chmmr.
Third, though the process would have been planned, its timing was changed to match the slave-shielding. I think we are assuming that this mission was out of contact and would not have found out that the war had been lost. Like those Japanese soldiers who were found in the 50s, only Chenjesu and Mmrnhrm.

But they found a human colony. At least that's what my master told me.
that's right. but they have found humans next to a precurosr installation. therefor they must guess something.

That's why they chose to do it now.
Still no more Chenjesu and Mmrhnmhrm. But i like the idea of other Hybrids.
I do not know how long the process would have taken normally, because the Chenjesu tell you that due to the shield not much energy from the sun will reach their surface.
Question: On the dark side of procyon (where the sun device can't reach the surface), do some Chenjesu and or Mmrhmrm still exist there??
Okay, okay, okay. It is possible.
Another thing: The Mmrnmhrm seem (to me) to stay very close to each other. The reason for this might be the well known fact that their extinction will come, if nothing happens.

Gotta fetch myself something to eat. Read U tomorrow!

OK, scratch that part about the search.

Someone mentioned that the individual strengths of the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm might be more valuable than the combined strength of the Chmmr.  This is true, of course, and both the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm probably realized this.  But If you will recall, the Process did not go as it was meant to.  I imagine that if the Process was allowed to complete as it normally would, the resultant hybrid race would be more than the sum of its parts.  As it stands now, the Chmmr is probably equal to the sum of its parts, with new strengths and new weaknesses.  But this still makes them into one of the most powerful forces in the galaxy, as the Chenjesu were already one of the most advanced races in existence, and the Mmrnmhrm were not to be trifled with either.

Well, then why were they so adamant about the bifurcator? It would seem to be worth a LOOK, even if in the end it turned out to be a trap.

Well, it said the Sun Device was placed in orbit around Procyon. So it probably went around and got both sides.

Because by that point they had been living as fused beings for 20 years, and reverting to a previous state literally meant that half of their bodies were gone....

Death_999: i just remember, thet they did not see a ship. They tell you that the've found hyperspace disturbances or something like that, which is usually a sign for a ship leaving a solar system. They were not able to follow or track were you went, when you've left vela for earth, but they were able to track you back to vela and there they've found a human colony. They greet you with: "So, the rogue comes back" or something like that (i am not able to play the UQM right now to check it out).
Possible. But even then some regions of procyon must've got more of the sun device and some less.
BTW: The Chmmrs planned to be so strong when leaving their cocoon, that they would be able to destroy the Ur-Quan slave imperia all alone, since there would be no more free races to help them in their struggle. And the Chmmrs which evolve after using the sun device are not _that_ strong.

Well it all depends.  First they mumbled something about their emergence not being as strong as they had planned, since it was accellerated.  Secondly, its all in the numbers.  As Captain Zelnick you're trying to overcome the UQM subterfuge.  You can have at most 9 ships in your fleet, and only 1 in combat at any given time, while the others sit on the sidelines and cheer.  

Presumably when each side has 3,000 ships this is not the way it goes.  The Supox and Chmrrr both allude to fleet actions much different from what SC combat is actually like.  

Perhaps the Chmrrrr had planned on building four avatars for every dreadnought.  Presumably then they'd have the throw weight to win a decisive victory.