The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

So? Cast your vote.  :)

The Orz are cool.  Nice ship design too. :D

The poll options are not complete.

I don't think the Orz fully understand the ramifications their actions have on our space/dimension, and so the things they do would be considered bad, but the Orz themselves are not malicious.

Although now that I think about it, they would have been more forthcoming with information about the Androsynth, instead of getting mad and attacking us. They must have made a concious decision to lash out at the 'synth because of something they did.

[]The Orz aren't "Them"; they just came along after "They" did something to the Androsynth.
a)The Orz don't like "Them" and don't want to attract "Their" attention.
b)The Orz do like "Them" and don't want you going after "Them".
c)The Orz did like "Them", and whatever "They" did to the Androsynth destroyed "Them", too (or hurt them somehow).  It upsets the Orz to be reminded; it's like a taunt.  Perhaps "They" tried to possess the Androsynth to explore this dimension, and the result was... what we saw.  "They", having bound themselves to the Androsynth, were hurt/destroyed as well.
     i)"They" are intelligent, and despite what happened last time, still think they can do whatever they were trying to do.  Or, brief life in this dimension is better than whatever they have in their own dimension.  Or whatever they did was involuntary.
     ii)"They" are intelligent, and just plain vengeful.
     iii)"They" are unintelligent (maybe work/prey animals or something), and just blindly go towards any opening they *smell*.
     iv)Creating a hole attracts all sorts of things.  I mean, anything nearby in the other dimension.  So maybe a bunch of "Them" were near where the Androsynth opened a hole, and the Androsynth made contact with them, etc., then when Bukowski creates another hole, something else is nearby.

I would like to see a good explanation of why the Orz don't try to stop you from exploring the Androsynth planet, though.

Edit:
[]The Orz are "Them" and what happened to Bukowski is the same thing that happened to the Androsynth, but it was and is involuntary on the part of the Orz.  Perhaps just being near them is enough to result in horrible, horrible death.

I tend to think that the Orz aren't "Them", because they don't react after Bukowski gets killed.  So, maybe they were unaware of it.

About exploring the Androsynth homeworld - they were already destroyed, so the planet does not matter anymore for Orz.

And why don't they know what they do to Bukowski? Either because this was done by another "They" race OR because they do this unconsciously. I would rather tend to the second hypothesis, since the IDF was targeted on Orz's dimension.

You mean like, they're new to this whole "matter" thing and they don't realize that you can get information from the ruins?  Because they do seem to not want you to know what happened to the Androsynth (Or they just don't want to talk about it themselves).

If they were responsible for the Androsynth, at least.  (Although they could just be pretending not to know/notice, of course.)


How do you mean?

Who said he doesn't want you to know about the Androsynth? He just doesn't like to talk about it. Probably he's got some remorses, or didn't like how the 'Synth reacted...

I mean, Orz doesn't know what he's doing to Bukowski, like you don't know when you step on an ant.
(If you were asking me to explain "since the IDF was targeted on Orz's dimension.", here it is: The Androsynth used their IDF devices to open an interdimensional gateway to Orz's dimension. In Orz's dimension I would say that there are no other beings, OR anyway the portal linked to the Orzine part of that dimension, so it is unlikely that the named portal would bring other beings too.)

How about "Orz aren't 'Them'; Orz did something good/bad/neutral to the Androsynth, while They did little/nothing to the Androsynth".

Didn't TFB explicicly say that the Orz were "Them" in one of their chats? I think I remember something like that...

I think the Orz definately meant to kill the 'Synth, otherwise, why would they get mad when you ask about it too much?

Yep, that's what I was asking.  But why do you think there aren't other beings in the Orz's dimension--or that, at the least, they're all alone in that part of their dimension?  We don't know what it's like there; it could be teeming with things and people.  Why should they be alone?


So: the Androsynth make the opening and contact the Orz, who do something bad (or something good or neutral against their will--remember how all the buildings were shot up) and later Bukowski contacts Them and They do something different to him?  (I just reread it, and we get the "Them" name from Bukowski and not from the Androsynth's computers.)

I think that the same thing got the Androsynth and Bukowski.


This is what I think They do to people who become visible to Them:  They try to pull the person into Their own dimension, but it happens a bit at a time.  The "cuts" aren't exactly cuts; they're where pieces of skin and flesh have been pulled through and are "missing".  (It might well be happening internally, too.)  Eventually, everything is pulled through, and there's no body left, hence why there weren't any bodies in the Androsynth city.

Yes, since the same "snagging" occurs both for the Androsynth and Bukowski, it's very likely that Orz is one of "Them".
However, it is not implied that he wanted to do evil to Androsynth.
Simply because he goes mad when you talk to him about the 'Synth and name them "silly cows" could either mean:
1) He has remorses
2) He didn't like their reaction
3) He was scared by what happened (it wasn't what he expected)
or who knows.

Neither Orz nor "Them" (if they're different) seem to shoot, though. Even if they did, something seems inconsistent. If Orz shot up the cities before removing all the Androsynth, I don't see how they'd get all the bodies afterwards. If Orz shot up the cities after removing the Androsynth, why is it that some of the computers are left, especially given the thoroughness of removing the living creatures? I don't think it makes much sense for the destruction to have been caused by IDF-native beings. Hmm...

Androsynth are a lot like humans, so here's a possibility: While IDF was just finished being researched, the Androsynth declared war on each other and launched a load of nuclear missiles. Before the missiles landed, Androsynth scientists contacted Orz; Orz then used superior IDF abilities to remove all those Androsynth, possibly at the request of said scientists, and possibly to knock some sense into them. :P

Or perhaps, as Androsynth society was being draaged *under* / coverted to Orz / whatever actually happened, they decided to cut their weapons loose on the ones being afflicted in a vain attempt to stop whatever was happening. Thus, we get shot up cities, seemingly indiscriminate collateral damage to items like computers, and ultimately, no sign of the Androsynth since they failed to prevent whatever happened.

My rough theory on the Orz is that the 'Synth were trying to make a dimensional portal or a device
to contact a *lower* dimension. Maybe in the hopes of discovering a faster form of travel than
hyperspace.

Anyway, they caused a weakness in the dimensional fabric (I love that term) and the Orz thought someone
was coming to attack. (Perhaps the Ariou would feel the same way about random portals opening
in quasi-space.) So the Orz counter-attack the poor 'Snyth and travel into our dimension to
see what else is here.

This would explain why they are friendly to humans (we didn't surprise them) but killed the Snyth.
It might also explain why they don't want to talk about the Synth, whom the Orz see as enemies.
Perhaps the Orz are worrid you are allied with the Synth and that's why they're touchy about the
subject.

If they don't believe that you're definitely allied to the Androsynth, why would they rather attack you than tell you what happened?

In fact, as the first lander report at the Androsynth ruins tells, they used some Precursor artifacts they had found at Alpha Lalande.

As an extension to Zeep-Eeep's argument I'd like to add that Orz seems very based on feelings rather than reasoning, Although this would mean that he simply react so virulently because he doesn't like the subject/has a childish type of remorses - which is my opinion -, it also implies that he really had a "good" reason for his retaliation - his exaggerated reactions.
It's a perfectly viable theory.