The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

I thought to share with you some of my space ships designs for my game.
Tell me if you like them or not.
(of course all rights are reserved)
This is the sonic shock space ship.
It shoots like sonic waves, its first ability are sonic waves that do damage and the second ability are sonic wave that would push the enemy or maybe even enemy shots and practically any moving object in space.
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6151/dscn1332no7.jpg)

This one is like a snake's ship, it have regular shots from the front and creates sort of balls that are attached to it like a tail. The balls can be destroyed, so he needs to recreate them. And supposingly he would be able to hit the enemy with this balls tail or do something else with it.
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8080/dscn1333mo1.jpg)

This one is like the badass ship, it got a shot from the center for a long range, and small guided missles from its wings.
(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1541/dscn1334ar6.jpg)

Well this one mught not be very original(and perhaps some of the previous as well).
I thought to make become like a gas form and that it will be able to fly through things, but then it would be like a shield and I already got one space ship with a shield. So I thought to make him go invisible and with a close range laser weapon he is very closly related to the ilwrath space ship.
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/765/dscn1335mr3.jpg)

This one have a sort of a big shot that would repeal the ship backward as a first ability and perhaps regeneration as a second ability. I know, not very original.
(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6186/dscn1336jk9.jpg)

The last ship has a sort of a tank with "poision gas" on it. I thought to make the tank filled according to the current energy of the ship.
It has a regular long range shot, and a gas cloud shot from behind which will perhaps paralyze the enemy ship for a few seconds(again not very original).
If you reached up until here then maybe all of this didnt bore you.
Thank you.

(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3986/dscn1337hw3.jpg)

I like your creativity. Good work! Have you ever thought about using a 3D program to streamline your designs?
(http://www.urquanmasters.com/shipanims/ArilouForumtest.png)

Well I am using newtek's lightwave to model the ships.
I hope I will have soon a first demo to put on the web, but until then I am a bit secret about my game. Sorry about that, I know you wont steal my ideas, but still.

You like these ideas, don't you? And you'd love to see them used one day, don't you. Now, the chances are 1 in 100 that anyone with any say so will find your idea, but if they do that little like right there excludes them from ever being able to use it if they wanted to.

However, in this litigatious society, saying nothing still excludes any conscious developer from using it. IMHO that line should read "(These ideas are released free for public use and consumption.)"

"But I have plans for them" you say. Oh, okay. I didn't realize. When you wake up and realize that if you were truely serious about the idea you wouldn't be posting on the internets for support, then go back up and edit that line.

I dont get it, were you offended by what I wrote?
Its a bit silly to excpect that people won't "steal" my space ships, because of the very simple reason that space ships can look alike and people get ideas from other people's ideas.
I guess I wrote it just in case.
Also, I am in an advanced stage of developing my game and hope to release a demo soon so I dont think I am unmotivated, I worked on it for at least three months and  I am still planning to continue work on it.
And yes, I wanted some feadback on the design, to see if people even care about it or it bores them. Of course I could managed without the feadback but its nice to have them.
Take it easy man.

Sorry, I suppose I did come off as a bit terse. No, i'm not offended, and I'm sure you're modivated. However, let me clarify. In america's litegatious society one can not use ideas found on the internet if there's any chance that someone will pipe up, claim it for their own, an offer a post on some message board as proof that they, infact, had the idea first and you stole it from them. Now, it's a long shot, but if, say Fred Ford were to drop by and see your ideas. Your little (all rights reserved) effectivly prevents them from ever being used. I'm sure if you were asked you'd happily allow it, but no one's going to go back and find a post that they only half remember where they saw it to track down your idea. So you're better off letting everyone just have it in the first place.

However, since you're so modivated I'm sure you don't need any of that advice.

Hey man, I'll suport you in doing this, as I'm working on a similar project myself. I have sketches for the ships and races and whatnot, but I did that lastly. I've acually been working on the storyline before I even began to think about abilities, weapons etc. , unless they were vital to plot propulsion.

Now, I agree with guesst in that, you really shouldn't post any of it up here, where anybody can see it, copy what they want off of it, and make slight modifications to it to call it their own. I'm not saying this acti is right or wrong, because I've done similar acts (not exactly the same. I haven't stolen ships designs, but I think you, Sargon, are right in that there is no way to really create an original story. It's all based off of something, somewhere, even if it's not the same genre. And, if you're interested, I'd be willing to help you out with this project.

lol... If I was to post something like this, I'd be likely to say something more along the lines of "(of course I release this all into the public domain)" :P

I too have a bunch of ships I've drawn (possibly for a future project, who knows). I have over 30 and mine are all top down, shaded and in 256 x 256 pixel .bmp format using Gimp and Paint. I think I'm ready to move on to 3D, especially  isometric rendering. But anyway...

Somthing I noticed. Just like the original star control ships, my own designs, Sargon's here, Arne's,  most of the ships in the TimeWarp project, even most commercial sci fi games and movies .. Why is there such a trend for artists to use symmetrical designs? Of course there are exceptions but it seems far more common for bilatteral equality. I've tried to draw assymetric ships but just can't seem to achieve much satisfaction within my own work.

Sargon, I look forward to trying your demo.

It occurs to Kaelos that the first ship looks sort've like an inverted U-Ship from Tyrian. And its Sonic Wave cannon is also a lot like something from Tyrian. Coincidence? Or is there another Tyrian fan here? ^-^

Ship (and alien) design are largely influenced by what looks good and what people can relate to. Not only are most of them symetrical, but it's usually pretty easy to tell which way is forward. Take some of the ships and ask yourself if they'd make as much sense if front were back.

You've discovered something in attempting the make an asymetrical ship look good, it's hard to do. Try this, make a symetrical design and the modify it. If it's got 2 engines, cut one off. Add shielding to one side, but not the other.

Here's something else to think about. How many alien designs have eyes? An alien could be born in the cold of space, light years from any source of solar radiation, and they'll have eyeballs. Why do we assume that every alien out there sees the universe the way we do. And what about aliens with hands? Oh, sure they're long or squat or pointed and tenticle-like, but somehow we assume that this design of multiple digits at the end of an apendage is the most efficent method of manipulation. And it may be, but Darwin would insist that on another world, with different evolutionary influences, that other methods would have been devised or perhaps the whole effort of manipulating their environment could have been abandoned as a waste of evolutioary time. And why is every alien out there  made of meat (http://www.terrybisson.com/meat.html)?

There's only one that would account for all these developmental similarities, and that's intelegent design. Which makes sense since a fictional universe must be designed, but then these fictional universes often try to be godless, which makes no sense. IMHO designing a godless universe is a bit like growing a bag of dorritos.

Well you can think of aliens that are completly different then all life forms on planet earth.
But then, if they are completly different then us, it is more likely that their reality is completly different then ours.
Perhaps they live on another dimension and to us they look like just flashing lights that appear some place that dont make any sense to us. But then, if they live in a such distinct reality then ours, it is also likely they are less capabale of communicating and manipulating our reality the same way we do.
So our reality, our physics law are the limitations to what life forms can evolve on this reality.
Can you think of some rocks manipulating the environment using telepathy? Yea it is possible to imagine, but is it propabble by the physics laws of our universe? probabbly not. In other dimensions perhaps it is, but not in our reality.

I have never heard of this game before you have mentions it, but it just shows that there are different degrees of creativity. You can create something completly creative, but it will look bizzare and perhaps unpleasing to the eye. Or you can create stuff that have certain similaritis in the design concept to other stuff, but also have some degree of freedom in creativity.

Thanx for the tips guesst. The meat link was enjoyable. Kinda makes you think from several different perspectives.

I probably wouldn't even attempt to try drawing Aliens as I'm more mechanically  minded anyaway. The ships I did were to mod the dated Starcontrol Online project which turned out pretty good. One of these days I'll .jpg and upload them so people can check em out.

I don't think we're that special.

• Evolution on Earth has proven that sensing electromagnetic energy is a great (the best?) way to perceive things, so it seems very likely that aliens would have eyes of some sort.
• Fingers have been proven to be a great (the best?) way to manipulate stuff. Earth shows that great inteliigence goes hand-in-hand with tool usage.
• The idea of non-water lifeforms seems either too stable (metal) or too unstable (gas/energy) to be very likely.

I realize that life could develop under strange, unearthly conditions, but don't we all share the same laws of physics?

I'm confused. What do gods have to do with anything? ???

Are you sure about that? You assume that the laws of physics, as we've observed them, remain constant when you get away from the radiation and speciffic gravity of our own yellow sun. But have you ever been out there. Do you know, for sure, that is the case?

Your list of "proven" evolutionary factiods, esp about eyes and hands, also assumes that evolution had the opportunity to try every alternitive along the way. Just because the way we['ve evolved does the job doesn't mean it's great or even the best. We make it work pretty good, but you're assuming that some other system doesn't exist that could do it better. Just because it's not here on our limited sphere doesn't mean it's not out there in the infinite expanse.

You've done quite a bit of assuming there. You know what happens when you assume? Spell it out. You make an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

Pretty sure I explained the argument well enough. But for you, nevermind. Just forget I said anything.

Just to back guesst up here, there are plenty of examples of creatures who don't see in our spectrum (or at all) and don't use digits right here on our world. Even though the same general laws of physics would appear to be valid in the whole universe, that doesn't mean the same evolutionary path needs to be followed all the time, nor that we are the optimal product. There migh tbe better solutions out there, and at any rate there ought to be very different ones.

http://burntelectrons.org/media/TheyreMadeOutOfMeat.mp3 (http://burntelectrons.org/media/TheyreMadeOutOfMeat.mp3)

Meat Audio :P

I don't get it either, okay? You really didn't explain it enough.

I mean, seriously. I'm just looking at your post and I'm like, "... Wha? What do you mean 'godless'? I mean, there's no definite proof that there's a god that watches over us, but of course, we couldn't have appeared here without explanation or reason, could we? Are you talking about the religion of alien races? Because if that's the case, there's plenty of aliens that have Gods. No proof they exist, but they're believed in. So what are you talking about with this whole 'godless' thing and saying most fictional universes are 'godless', when I can clearly think of several gods in Science Fiction that are in different universes? Am I over thinking this? Will my brain explo- *BOOOOOM*"

So, uh, yeah. I definitely agree with the rest of your ideals (Except for your newbie bashing. Come on.), I just don't understand your whole 'Godless' thing.

I'm not sure about anything, but as far as I understand, observations of the rest of the universe show that it obeys the same physical laws.

Well, by definition of evolution, only the best, most adaptive solutions survive. That is why eyesight and fingers must be the most elegant tools for the job. And I think the need to see and to manipulate things, at least by sentient water-based beings, is pretty universal.

Look, I'm not saying that what you suggest is impossible, who knows what's out there? I'm just saying that in my view, Earth-like life doesn't seem that improbable.

That's a nice way to say "you're an idiot". >:( Refer to Bluhman's post.

I think your overthinking it. He's simply saying that Intelligent design becomes a much more viable explanation if it turns out aliens all around the world share a very similar design to us (Star Trek for instance). then he points out how ironic that is, as most sci-fi universes are godless, even though they support the theory for intelligent design. I mean, if you travelled to the far reaches of the universe and only discovered loads of parallell earths, with the odd facially deformed humanoid thrown in, wouldn't you start considering the possibility of one god above it all? Also note that he said most, not all sci-fi. While I don't pretend to be some sort of sci-fi expert, I can easily think of more universes were a god isn't present in any tangible shape (as opposed to fantasy were gods are very plentiful), that those where one is. Of course, i may have misunderstood, but that's how I read it.


Adapted for their current circumstances. Dinosaurs were pretty brilliantly adapted until they all died. Cockroaches will probably be laughing at your "peak of evolution" long after we bombard ourselves out of this world. What i'm saying is, your definition of the most elegant tool is only valid in our conditions. Like i said earlier, plenty of things on Earth use neither. What's to say that in the dark dank caverns of Epsilon II there aren't some sort of silica based crawlers that have no use for sight (no light), and that utilize tentacles for hunting (longer reach). They might even have an entire civilisation based around texture communication or something. Obviously unlikely, but I'm just trying to make the point that bipedal with eyes and four limbs isn't neccessarily the best design everywhere.

That makes perfect sense to me. I'd expect religion to be gone by the time faster-than-light travel is achieved. :D

Again, I'm not saying it's not possible and that all aliens must be humanoid. I find the alien design in Star Trek silly myself. :P I'm just saying that eyes and fingers aren't that "earthly" in my opinion.

But none of us have any proof, so this is pretty pointless. Also, we're horribly off-topic. :P

Because travelling gods creation to spread the word of his glory is definitely going to kill off all religions?


Nope, but then this is a purely theoretical discussion. Well see.

Godless-ness in a fictional Universe

Let me spell it out. Regardless of your belief system in this universe, or the belief system of any authors in the past, the attempt to make a fictional universe that is purely scientific, IE godless, is folly. Posit: any universe that is fictional is intellegently designed Ergo the author is god. Ergo the fictional universe has, by default, a diety. Whether the characters in the fiction recognize this or not, any assertion by the author, outside of the work itself, to discredit god in their fiction is impossible. They are, in essence, denying themselves.

Yeah, we're off topic bad.

Because I'd expect societies to be quite enlightened by the time they come up with the unimaginable thing that is faster-than-light travel, if it's possible. And so they'd already given up on superstitions. :D

So you're basically saying Tolkien is Eru Ilúvatar? :P

Seriously, I don't see your point. Just because you make up a universe doesn't mean you're its god. It's just fiction.

Still off-topic? ???

Enlightened does not necessarily equal non-religious. There are plenty of moderate religious people out there working in high tech research facilities and other such "enlightened" branches. We might see some of the more extreme branches that cater to uneducated and poor fall off, but I don't see why there couldn't be religious persons abound in the future.

Of course not, it just includes that. :P
(Because, in my view, one must dispose of one's superstitions before being enlightened.)

Sadly you might be correct. If the scientific defiance of gravity and the weak nuclear force didn't convice the narrow-minded that physics are God, perhaps nothing will.

But either way, I bet it won't be a religious person who will break the speed of light. :P

"I believe in Spinoza's god, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
-- Albert Einstein

So now this is a discussion about religion? Well, I do believe in God and even pray sometimes. I am not a true-believer.

My title disagrees ;)


Ah, you were using your very own definition, rather than the common one "highly educated; having extensive information or understanding" that i'd assume is what is gernerally meant.



You think they are going to vet the test pilots for religious tendencies? That doesn't bode well for the future of freedom of thought in your future fantasy...

1. Apparently.
2. My condolences. :P


Haha :P

I meant you have to do that among other things.

You can interpret "having extensive understanding" as not being superstitious. :P In my definition of "enlightened", I would add "having an open, prejudice-free mind" and "supporting democratic values".

I meant the scientist, not the test pilot. ;)

You know what I think of those titles. :P

You can intepret almost anything in many different ways. Your opinion is duly noted. I'm curious as to how having a religion excludes you from being prejudice free and supporting democratic values though. It would seem rather prejudist to assume to all religous people are prejudist, and anti-democratic to boot.


Vetting scientists for personal beliefs doesn't seem much healthier either. Especially not in your enlightened, non prejudiced society.


That they are an admirable result of debate and cooperation on the forum rather than an assigned entity by a solitary person based on his preferences in a subjective field? ;)

The democracy thing was unrelated to religion.

As for prejudice - the way I see it, religion revolves around prejudice, e.g. the prejudice that God exists.
The Hebrew word for prejudice is "ancient opinion". :P

I didn't say they're going to be screened, I just said I'd imagine them to be secular. :-\

Okay, this is what I dislike about these forums, every topic ends up going into a debate about religion.

Seriously guys, what the hell? Can't we just keep to the topic please? Besides, NO one knows they're right yet, you're kicking that dead cow again.

To the author - Is it alright if we post our own designs onto this topic aswell? :p

I'm sorry, that was my bad. i keep forgetting on these forums that mentoning dietical order, even in jest, conjures up the veneral "oh yeah, that's what you think" every time.

I've already said my piece on ship and race design. But to get us on topic and repent of my past error I'll have to scan in some of my ship and character designs and post them here.

Back on topic,
Sure, post your design, I would be glad to see them.
I have to announce that my game concept has failed. I have created an AI for the enemy ship and played against it, and I saw that my game just isnt fun enough.
What I was doing was taking start control 2 into the 3RD dimension and it didnt translate well.
I was doing that by putting the two spaceships inside an invisible 3D cube, and if a ship pass from one side of the cube, it will appear on the other (seamleslly of course).
You can even see your own space ship far away from the backwards.
But this conecpt failed because it was simply not fun enough, not fun like plain ol 2D star control.
What do you think?

I tend to think now that people just look for that sort of opening in everything, just to start an arguement, sound intelligent, or otherwise be a fairly stupid gyke. Why should religion come into something like this? I know you actually mentioned it so it actually linked with the thread, but some people will just take it too far, IN FACT Star Control SUGGESTS that there is a Creator. GASP! Yes, the Supox claim that they must be evidence of a Creator, because even with their science, they can't prove how they're like they are. Also, the Arilou and Orz thing sounds similar to the Astral Plane and the Infra-Dimensions (The Orz being from the Infra Dimensions, the Arilou from the Astral and above), if you want to do research on it, be my guest, but like I said, anything to do with Religion shouldn't really be thrown into almost every topic on here.

What I do not like on here however, is the way that there seems to be no respect for another person's religion, but it's done in such a very bad manner, it's basically like "You're wrong because I don't believe in it and therefore it's not true" type of thing. It really ticks me off.

This is not directed at you in any way guesst, it's just I thing I've noticed recently around here...