The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Asrial on August 15, 2007, 01:50:23 am



Title: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Asrial on August 15, 2007, 01:50:23 am
I read in an old thread that planet resources are random.

Can anyone give me the scoop on this? Is it pointless to list what systems have what?


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: meep-eep on August 15, 2007, 03:10:47 am
The planets are pseudo-randomly generated from fixed seeds. So the planets are the same every time.
Listing them isn't pointless, but if you're thinking of visiting every one of them to make that list, that would be pointless. It's very easy to have the game itself generate such lists for someone familiar with the code.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Asrial on August 15, 2007, 04:41:43 am
If they're the same every time, how is there any amount of randomness in it?


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on August 15, 2007, 06:28:57 am
See here for an explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandom_number_generator#Periodicity


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Asrial on August 15, 2007, 07:10:32 am
*glazes over the link*


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Valaggar on August 15, 2007, 09:44:23 am
See here (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/List_of_mineral_types) for which minerals correspond to which planet types (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/List_of_planet_types).


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Novus on August 15, 2007, 09:59:25 am
If they're the same every time, how is there any amount of randomness in it?
"Pseudo-" means that it's not what it seems to be. Pseudorandom numbers aren't random, they're deterministically generated (usually from a seed value (which can be stored to repeat the sequence, as when generating planets in UQM). They just look random, even to the point of fooling some statistical tests. Roughly speaking, the better the pseudorandom generator, the harder it is to find any pattern to its output.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Death 999 on August 15, 2007, 03:52:07 pm
In short, it was randomly generated once when they wrote the game. That aspect is more important than its pseudorandomness.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Asrial on August 15, 2007, 08:28:26 pm
Okay, I think I got you.

Each time you start a new game, the planets are going to be the same (with regards to planet X always having a stockpile of gold and life, as an example).

It was when they MADE the game that this attempt at randomness was done.

..and I like making my own list because it gives the game that feeling of exploration.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Davey Yungblud on August 15, 2007, 10:37:22 pm
Well what good will that do you when the....er....nevermind ^-^;;.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: guesst on August 16, 2007, 01:12:17 am
I've never thought about it, but really we're talking about procedurally generated content. However SC2 wa made ages before procedurally generated became a buzzword. Way to go Paul Reiche III!


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: MageKing17 on August 16, 2007, 01:23:58 am
It's not really that surprising, procedural generation was quite common, way back, because they didn't have the space to store all that data. Elite, for example, was perfectly capable of procedurally generating any number of galaxies (the game was originally going to have 2^48... Acornsoft decided this was slightly ridiculous and would make the artificiality of the game blindingly obvious, so it was limited to 8).


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: waywardoctagon on August 16, 2007, 08:59:18 am
*nod*

And it would be sort of a waste to actually go through and decide on the number, type, and size of minerals for each planet individually, when it wouldn't have a big effect on gameplay (unless you did something like putting all the mineral-rich planets really close, or really far away).  Much easier and more efficient to have the program itself do that part.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Valaggar on August 16, 2007, 10:07:12 am
And if you're just looking for the richest planets, see the Role Playing Resource Guide (http://home.freeuk.net/a51/games/sc2/rguide.pdf), page 3 through 20.


Title: Re: Planets Random or Not?
Post by: Novus on August 16, 2007, 11:28:33 am
Practically all the solar system data (with the exception of plot-relevant stuff) is procedurally generated. Even the graphics for the planets' surfaces (with the exception of Earth) are procedurally generated. However, the HyperSpace map (star types, positions, names, aliens) is hard-coded into the game.