The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Valaggar on September 13, 2007, 09:35:48 pm



Title: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Valaggar on September 13, 2007, 09:35:48 pm
*That is, you have to land on inhabited planets and find the trade center to trade. There are a number of Standard Trade Goods, the same for all races (some may miss depending on their tech level though), and whose depends on whether the planet's economy is Inflated (which sell at higher prices, buy at lower prices), Level (moderate prices) or Depressed (which sell at lower prices, buy at higher prices) - so the better idea with standard goods is buying from a depressed economy and selling to an inflated one.

There are also Specialty Trade Goods, which can generally be sold for more money than you paid for them, and which, having much higher values than standard goods, yield much better profits. Each race has a couple of specialty goods that they want and a couple of specialty goods that they sell (and some of these specialty goods are not wanted by anyone).

Artifacts can also be bought. Most races will only sell them if you've sold them a certain specialty trade good that they like.

By minor races I mean races that have not yet attained space flight technology, so the only interaction possible with them is trading and learning interesting lore about themselves, their culture etc.

<POLL ONE ("Do you want/think that the Sequel(TM) is transitionless first-person?") leftover>
*By that I mean like in Frontier: First Encounter clones (or Infinity: Quest for Earth) - you pilot the ship from the cockpit, and planet exploration and encounters take place within the same (perceived) worldspace.

Also, sorry for the strange wording in the title, I had to shorten it...  >:(
</leftover>


Title: Re: Poll: Do you want/think that the Sequel(TM) is transitionless first-person?
Post by: Simon K on September 13, 2007, 11:12:02 pm
I liked Elite, and Frontier as well (but the less said about First Encounters, the better), but I really don't think that gameplay style is suitable for a Star Control sequel. If anything, I'd like more strategy in a sequel.

That said, making a cockpit-view 3D game in the Star Control universe is not a bad idea at all. Such a game could be to Star Control what Privateer was to Wing Commander.


Title: Re: Poll: Do you want/think that the Sequel(TM) is transitionless first-person?
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 14, 2007, 06:56:32 pm
I really liked the Frontier Elite series (http://www.frontier.co.uk/resume.html), and I think it would greatly benefit from a modern revision. However, I'm not sure how well the Star Control flavoring would incorporate into that. SC2 was based loosely off of Star Flight  (http://www.geocities.com/lorenzolio/starflight.html)I think. You were able to take your main ship down to most planets and mine with a surface vehicle, but it wasn’t seamless. Communication with aliens only took place in space and was rather limited. I forget…Was mining a big part of Frontier? Anyway- I disagree with most on this. I think the actual game play of a new SC COULD adopt some aspects from great games like First Encounters (http://www.frontier.co.uk/games/firstencounters/index.html) and also  Carrier Command. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Command) CC took the whole remote vehicle idea to a new level. Perhaps the same aspect could be applied to the escort ships in the next SC? Meh… It’s all supposition anyway.

Super realistic space simulation in a seamless environment should get more interest.
This is by no means a bad idea (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/).


Title: Re: Poll: Do you want/think that the Sequel(TM) is transitionless first-person?
Post by: Valaggar on September 19, 2007, 04:20:37 pm
Poll: Do you want/think that the Sequel(TM) is transitionless first-person? results:
  • 5 votes for "I don't like that idea and I think it will not be like that."
  • 1 vote for "I want it, but I can't say how I think it will be."

I've decided to use this thread for other SequelTM polls.
Vote now for StarFlight II-style trading and minor races!!!


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: countchocula86 on September 19, 2007, 06:53:19 pm
Im so very confused about what this thread is discussing


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Valaggar on September 19, 2007, 07:01:11 pm
Before the post announcing the first poll's results, this thread dealt with seamless transition between space, planetside and battle. Now we've moved on to another design element, since I have a couple of such questions in mind and I thought it would be better if I don't clutter the forum with a lot of such polls. So I've edited this one instead.

Thus, you can ignore the posts before my poll results post for the current question.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: guesst on September 19, 2007, 07:15:07 pm
So many polls! Do you plan on using this information to make your own sequel? I'm impressed Valaggar. I didn't even know you knew how to program. Could you link to your work and show us what you've done?


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Valaggar on September 23, 2007, 11:07:42 am
So many polls! Do you plan on using this information to make your own sequel? I'm impressed Valaggar. I didn't even know you knew how to program. Could you link to your work and show us what you've done?
(http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/style_emoticons/default/24.gif)

That was funny.

I made these polls to see what other people think of these ideas - if enough people like them, there's quite a chance that PR3&FF also like them and are going to use them for the SequelTM.
Not that I currently have any more ideas for these polls.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Koowluh on September 24, 2007, 07:38:03 am
It would probably be a radical change of their current business plan, which wouldn't rhyme with "if it works, don't fix it." 

Furthermore, I have never seen your polls attract more than 20 people (and those aren't actually about the game but a popularity contest)... that's far from enough people. So as long as you don't create it yourself, it's not going to happen. Unless you can get another 10k people responding to this thread...

Please do not see this as a "I don't like you, shoo" post. It's just that I don't think that a poll on a far away forum of a far away game with far away people (face it, most of us are (becoming) relics of the past) will attract the attention that it needs to merit a "business change."


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Valaggar on September 24, 2007, 02:31:04 pm
It would probably be a radical change of their current business plan, which wouldn't rhyme with "if it works, don't fix it." 

Furthermore, I have never seen your polls attract more than 20 people (and those aren't actually about the game but a popularity contest)... that's far from enough people. So as long as you don't create it yourself, it's not going to happen. Unless you can get another 10k people responding to this thread...
No, no, no, by "if enough people like them, there's quite a chance that PR3&FF also like them and are going to use them for the SequelTM" I meant that this poll is a way to divine their intentions, not influence them.

Please do not see this as a "I don't like you, shoo" post.
Why would I? Do I use to do like that? I don't think so.  :)

far away forum of a far away game with far away people (face it, most of us are (becoming) relics of the past)
I think I will direct you to this post (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3572.msg50011#msg50011). Or should I direct you to this post (http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/forum/index.php?topic=1408.msg20377#msg20377)?
O Great Gods Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III, guide me, for without you, my resolution falters, and my pen is still and dry, though all the seas were full of ink, and the sky my parchment of dawn!


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Deus Siddis on September 24, 2007, 05:47:45 pm
I think it would be sort of fun to be able to bargain with the Melnorme and Druuge and whoever else, but it would definitely not be high on the wish list. I much prefer SF1's mining to SF2's trading.

As for seemless transitions, I don't think so. It would not happen unless the game was radically altered to be 3D, more realistically scaled (not that that is saying much, Spore's planetary scale would be enough for this) and planetary surfaces were much more interesting places (again, probably something like Spore).


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Koowluh on September 25, 2007, 07:30:26 am
<snip>

Sorry, I hate creating long posts with quote this and that. Basically what I wanted to say is that the petition is almost 1,5 years old. I'm not the kind of guy that is going to sit on his hands and wait because perhaps somewhere, out there, someone may actually work out the idea and may put some time and resources in it. I usually stop hoping after the second "if" that I find in such plans/ideas.

I wanted to put up another whole rant about not wanting to start flame wars, but I'd be drifting way off topic. Suffice it to say that I'd rather put something in my post to make sure that it isn't seen as hostile than to have it blown out of proportions.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 25, 2007, 01:33:35 pm
Quote
radically altered to be 3D

Wake up and smell the future! Have a little vision will ya? The implications of what this thread is about are going to be a big part of the future of gaming. And yes; we old relics shake ourselves out of our dusty holes to doubt and mumble at an evolution that has surpassed our fancy and comprehension. It need not be so I think.
(http://www.dvdbits.com/images/reviews/2001_monolith_upload.jpg)


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: guesst on September 25, 2007, 11:21:38 pm
Do you think that by suggesting what you want to see you're actually limiting what you will see? I mean, in the litegatious atmosphere of America if you could say "I came up with that idea first" you could sue for a portion of the profits. So to be safe, any idea posted on the internet must be avoided.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Elvish Pillager on September 26, 2007, 12:32:10 am
I bet people who don't like free exchange of ideas love to publicize that. :-\


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Valaggar on September 26, 2007, 05:38:39 pm
Do you think that by suggesting what you want to see you're actually limiting what you will see? I mean, in the litegatious atmosphere of America if you could say "I came up with that idea first" you could sue for a portion of the profits. So to be safe, any idea posted on the internet must be avoided.
(I'm assuming you're talking to me) Are you sure? What about the suggestion threads on so many gaming forums? Besides, these here aren't my ideas anyway - as you can see, they're stolen from other titles (I'll get sued...  :o). Also, wouldn't this apply to speculation as well? "It was me who first publicized that Orz=Them, not PR3!" (may Paul Reiche III - Blessed Be His Holy Name - forgive me for this blasphemy)
These ideas aren't quite detailed enough, and actually I've seen more detailed ideas on other forums about which nobody raised this issue.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Koowluh on September 27, 2007, 11:46:42 am
It really depends on how big the suggestion/idea is. if it's revolutionary, you'll probably have to sign an non-disclosure agreement or another piece of paper saying that you distance yourself from this idea, just to make sure that you won't come back to haunt them later.

That is, if we're talking about gentleman (or women) taking up your suggestion. If you want to tie someone up in court about an idea "you posted on a developper's forum", my case (if I were the developper) against you would be to prove that it was really you who posted on that forum. You'd have to request (by legal order) my server logs to see if it was actually you connecting (and you'd still only have an IP address with which you now have to prove that it was actually you on that IP address), and well, my system manager is not one of the fastest guys you know, ever since he had that horrible accident when his fingers got stuk in a tapedrive... So it might take a few months to get those logs... a year tops.... Joe, be careful with that cup of coffee in the server room...

Oh my... drifting away from the topic again...


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: meep-eep on September 27, 2007, 01:49:59 pm
IANAL, but afaik (in the USA) you do not have copyright on ideas in themselves, only as part of a story.


Title: Re: Poll: StarFlight II-style trading and minor races in the Sequel(TM)
Post by: Arne on September 27, 2007, 04:15:05 pm
As long as they make the universe feel plausible I'm fine. However, it's quite possible that a poorly made feature will only detract from the experience. If you go for realism, then the player will start expecting other things and the universe can actually feel more shallow and superficial. I remember playing HL2 and whilst being able to stack crates to make improvised stairs, it didn't allow me to jump over a fence. I could shoot sawblades into the walls, but not use them as a ladder, and I could shoot people, but not important people.

I think if you set up proper rules and as a game designer work within those, you'll end up with a plausible universe, even if it isn't realistic. If trading is included, I think it should make sense within the universe and not just be a slap on feature.


We're doing a bit of open development with Cortex Command, but we really had most of the ideas ourselves during the beginning of the development (we're just refraining from implementation until our production/asset pipeline is up). I guess open development is a bit like... convergent brainstorming: certain ideas keeps popping up, and that can nudge our choices in the end.

Dwarf Fortress guy is doing a bit of open development too. From a legal PoV, maybe it's more feasible process in the indie game community.