The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

So I have all those brilliant ideas and theories about Star Control. So I post them on the forum. So people don't generally reply, whether they like the idea or not, for various reasons.
Thus, I am proud to announce Here and Now...

*DRUM ROLL*

The Daedric Wiki of Biscuits!!!
or... Oops. Looks like I'm going down the Golden Road.

OK. Drum rolls!

The...

Star Control expanded lore Wiki (http://starcontrol.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page)!1!!1!
Here, our ingenious attempt of expanding the lore will be stored for eternity!

This Wiki is about:

• Interesting, Star Control-ly (and which do not contradict canon, even though, by definition, they add to it) additions to Star Control articles eligible for the Ultronomicon (what I mean by "only to articles eligible for the Ultronomicon" is that no new races, artifacts or plot are allowed unless required for your idea of an expanded backstory for a specific race. It is also not allowed to explain the mysteries surrounding the Precursors, the Arilou and the Orz, though more info on them is allowed, including what the Precursors looked like.)
  
  Use proper style (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Ultronomicon:Manual_of_Style).
  
  A good example of article is this one (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/script/index.php?title=Ur-Quan&oldid=5346) (don't use that embellished style though). A bad example is the current Androsynth article over on the Ultronomicon, as it contradicts canon (by stating, for example, that the Synth didn't care about aesthetics, when the manual clearly states that they did, and even more so, that they were very preoccupied about aesthetics).
  
  Some good places that should be explored first would be the subjects with little canon information available, such as some homeworlds or artifacts.

For additions more important than trivia (by trivia I mean, for example, what the Chief Groo's responsibilities are), it might be a good idea to post a summary on the discussion page first.
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I hope that my hope that you will join is not in vain!

We will include the Ultronomicon articles (save for gameplay-related ones) but due to legal compatibility problems between the Creative Commons Attribution license we will have to specify the names of the people who wrote that. It shouldn't be a problem.

Okay, let me try and get this straight. Although the Ultronomicon already exists, you went out and made another wiki for Star Control? What's the point of that?

I think Valaggar wants a wiki to fill with fan-speculation and other non-canon (but not canon-contradicting) material, unlike the Ultronomicon, which "is supposed to be an objective reference work", according to its Manual of Style (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Ultronomicon:Manual_of_Style).

You call it "Star Control expanded lore Wiki" here, but on your wiki you name it "Star Control wiki".
That will at the least be confusing to those who are looking for a canon wiki.

Ah, but that wasn't intentional in any way... I am sure I have filled in "Star Control expanded lore Wiki", but somehow and for some reason, the Wikia staff appears to have removed those two words... Besides, the main page makes it clear that not all the contents are canonical, and even links directly to the Ultronomicon.
In any case, there doesn't seem to be anyone interested in joining, so...

It sounds like a good idea to talk to the Wikia staff then, if you want to go through with this.

Not everyone would come in through the main page, and it would show up like "Star Control wiki" in search engines.

So...? Are you abandoning the project? As long as that wiki is there as it is, there is the risk of confusion.

Ah, oops, I already have the Ur-Quan page... yep, you're right, looks like the problem ought to be solved.
(*issue reported*)

So, again, is anybody interested in joining?

Not really. It seems like a bad idea to start with; "hey let's completely make stuff up and call it expanded lore for this game and put it in a wiki". Now, if it was organizing *existing* fanfiction/etc., that might be workable. Of course, you would need to denote all the parallel universes implied, since every piece of fiction is different from the other, generally, and there would be many contradictions.

The title still says "Star Control Wiki" to me. You might want to adjust that for clarity. That said, I like the idea of a Star Control fan fiction site although I'm not going to involve myself in it.

I don't see what's the big difference between creating content specifically for this wiki and using already-created content for it.

I've reported the problem, not fixed it.

Here (http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/scwc/) is some more material for your site.

The SCexplore Wiki is not about fanfic stories, but about fanfic lore.

How are you planning to determine what gets in when people write conflicting material? The power of wikis is that everyone can edit. Yet, there's no objective standard possible for something like this.

A good question. For now, I am planning to have new lore marked as such via a non-intrusive template, and after 30 days, or after the community agrees to do so, the template will be removed and the respective lore will be set in stone. During these 30 days, the community may alternatively come to the decision of removing the proposed addition.

Er, what's the difference? All those fanfic stories have come up with their own lore. Isn't that lore just as valid as anything you might make up?

It's harder to extract the few and far between pieces of lore in those stories than to make up something more dense and more interesting (hopefully) on the spot.

So the purpose of this wiki is really to create a collaborative work of fan-fiction in the SC universe?

You can take it like that, yes, if you wish.

What other way is there to take it? You want to create a fleshed out fiction (although without the stories usually associated with fan-fiction). The only problem I foresee is getting everyone to agree on something, different people will think that *Nggn* are different things and edit the articles to reflect their own opinion.

The first one that comes with a good enough idea will be the one whose idea prevails. Also, it is not allowed to explain the major mysteries surrounding the Precursors, the Arilou and the Orz, though more info on them is allowed, including what the Precursors looked like (or *Nnngn*).

In Valaggarese (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3725.msg48214#msg48214), "You can take it like that" means "Yes, it is that".

Who decides what a good enough idea is though? Are you going to make a poll every time there are two ideas?


Fair enough, my mistake :)

I guess it would generally rather come down to either which one was posted first or to My unbiased judgment.  >:(

No good. The people demand polls. That's what they've come to expect from you.

On a more serious note, good luck with the project. Who knows, one day your expanded universe might be used as background for something else.

Why exclude "the major mysteries surrounding the Precursors, the Arilou and the Orz"?

1. Having them explained would equate to having them explained away.
2. Likely to generate massive amounts of heated debate.
3. Likely to soak up contributions that would otherwise end in other articles.

And why is this bad?

These are really one objection; generating massive amounts of heated debate in itself isn't bad.
And in fact, I'd it is a good way to get people involved (resulting in more contributions).

Is there really a point to this? I mean, we already have an official wiki for Star Control canon, and a wiki for fan speculation just seems unnecessary.

Personally, I think it's pointless but harmless. I foresee that Valaggar ight have some trouble actually filling up the new Wiki though.

I also think it is pointless. It could cause some confusion though, so I wouldn't call it entirely harmless.
Apart from that that, I don't think it has been well thought through, with regard to what material would belong in there and how individual cases get decided.

Would you settle for "Mostly Harmless"?

I suppose you can't tell me what would be a better method, though? Just for laughs. I hate negative criticism and exaggerated compliments, the only thing I actually like is constructive criticism.
Though yes, just like I've already explained to Lukipela during a short round of PM-ball, it's clear that nobody has both the time and the interest to participate.

Part of doing stuff is to take negative criticism, we just simply can't see anything good or useful because of this.

Negative criticism, especially when presented in a blunt way (this here is not the best example, but meep-eep has a history of giving too direct negative criticism) will often not have the desired effect, since the receiver will be offended and not bow his head to the truth. (I might even try to defend my position with my last breath, even if I know I'm wrong)

Once details about the story are into place, you can't change the global structure of the story. This means that you need to have a decent global structure set before you can fill out the details. Unless you want to play supreme dictator (which I predict would leave you without underlings), you need some collaborative way to create the global structure. Just documenting the global structure and having everyone change it doesn't work, as everything is a matter of personal taste; you need discussion to come to something which is acceptable to most people.
So first of all, you'd need enough people to have a meaningful discussion. If you can't get that, I would consider your project doomed from the start.

Well, it's not a story, first of all, so there's no such thing as a global structure. Most things are independent from each other (which also means that less choice-of-what-material-belongs is required). And yes, if there were enough participants as to have one post per hour (yet not enough lore-makers to have a fast flow of new ideas), then discussing each new addition to the lore would be feasible. Otherwise, we bump into the same inflexibility problem Lukipela was pointing a few posts ago (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3857.msg50412#msg50412).

EDIT: It all begins to sound like the TimeWarp public plot initiative...