The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Lamoid on March 24, 2008, 03:42:23 am



Title: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Lamoid on March 24, 2008, 03:42:23 am
I mean seriously, those thngs have frankly embarrasing amounts of health, are faster, and their flame thrower dealie obliterates the missles I throw at it. Let's not even get INTO those Slylandro things...


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Simon K on March 24, 2008, 04:13:58 am
It can be done, but it does require skill and a decent helping of dumb luck. There's a reason the Ur-Quan assigned the Ilwrath to watch over their human slaves; the Ilwrath Avenger is quite able to hold its own against the lumbering Earthling Cruisers and their slow nuclear missiles.

Perhaps a better course of action is to seek allies, before facing the Ilwrath armada head-on. The Ilwrath ships are very slow in Hyperspace, so a decently swift ship will easily be able to evade their patrols. In combat, their chief advantage is their stealth capability, which makes homing weapons mostly useless against them. However, simpler forward-firing weapons can be effective against the Ilwrath Avenger, especially since the Avenger is one of the slower and less maneuverable ships in the Hierarchy armada. Some of Earth's old allies possess ships that are devastating to the Ilwrath craft, such as the Shofixti Scout, Yehat Terminator and Syreen Penetrator -- the Ilwrath stealth technology does them no good against the Syreen song, as you can probably guess. The Ariloulaleelay Skiff can also be very effective against Avengers, in the right hands.

There are probably also aliens around that Earth never had formal contact with, during the War. Perhaps diplomatic missions into the territories of the aliens we do know may point you towards new, potential allies -- and maybe the source of the ever-growing hordes of Slylandro probes, whoever the Slylandro themselves may be.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Simon K on March 24, 2008, 04:19:11 am
Your Precursor vessel has the unique capability for attaching very useful upgrades. For diplomatic and exploratory missions, I would recommend as much speed and maneuverability you can get, to allow you to outrun enemy Hyperspace patrols. Fully outfitted, I suspect your Precursor vessel would be able to outrun even a Slylandro probe.

You may want to investigate those emergency transmissions from Rigel -- perhaps the people sending them can be of  help.

Good luck, Captain!


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Lamoid on March 24, 2008, 04:30:06 am
I have no idea how you knew I just got a message from Rigel but thanks, I'll give it a shot.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Shiver on March 24, 2008, 04:45:53 am
Fighting the Ilwrath is never really required except for the busted one at the start of the game. So don't. Ilwrath ships also don't provide very many RUs after you blow them up. If you want to cycle through all the Ilwrath dialogue, play the game until you have an Utwig or Yehat then go on a killing spree in their territory. Either of those two ships can tear through multiple Ilwrath in a snap.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Elvish Pillager on March 24, 2008, 11:29:47 am
The Ariloulaleelay Skiff can also be very effective against Avengers, in the right hands.

That's a pretty vacuous statement. Literally any ship can be effective against AI Avengers in the right hands (except maybe a VUX that's already low on crew, and you can't get VUX ships in the main game anyway.) The trick with Earthling is that if you continually avoid the Ilwrath, the AI can be convinced to stay on the other side of the screen indefinitely, while you take potshots which rarely, but sometimes, hit. Since you're never required to fight Ilwrath, it's simply not worth your time to use this strategy.

(Note that sometimes the Ilwrath will appear close enough to your ship, and without a planet in sight, that you can't throw it off; I don't know how likely this is but it's a significant possibility.)


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Simon K on March 24, 2008, 07:00:00 pm
Thing is, it's actually pretty easy (albeit dangerous) with a Skiff. Get the Ilwrath to chase, it'll start using its flamethrower when you're just out of range -- keep slightly out of range and use the laser. Stay a little to the side, and you'll hit a wing. The only thing that can go wrong is if you hit an asteroid, or get too close to a planet -- but then, as is often the case with Skiff combat, you're in trouble since a single hit will fry you.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Shiver on March 25, 2008, 12:22:01 am
Thing is, it's actually pretty easy (albeit dangerous) with a Skiff. Get the Ilwrath to chase, it'll start using its flamethrower when you're just out of range -- keep slightly out of range and use the laser. Stay a little to the side, and you'll hit a wing. The only thing that can go wrong is if you hit an asteroid, or get too close to a planet -- but then, as is often the case with Skiff combat, you're in trouble since a single hit will fry you.

"Pretty easy (albeit dangerous)"? In the same sentence that you recommend people learn to use Arilou as an Ilwrath counter, you also admit it's a bad idea. I don't think you should be giving advice out to casual gamers.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Simon K on March 25, 2008, 06:54:48 am
Well, I did say that the Skiff was good against Ilwrath "in the right hands", which seems to me to imply that actually using it for that requires practice.

The *easiest* way to deal with AI Ilwrath outside of Supermelee would probably be with Yehat Terminators or (especially) Utwig Juggers.

Of course, you never really have to fight them, and they give very few RU's.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Yxo on March 25, 2008, 01:39:45 pm
There is no good  strategy for a player which has to fight AI avenger with cruiser. But I'll offer one: run away from avenger in that fashion that it will be near of line of fire, so it could be hit with non-homing missiles. And shoot. It you fail to pick proper angle and avenger is getting close, accelerate into its direction. It will damage you, but after collision you will be flying away from it and have another chance.

Utwig and Yehat ships are not accessible early in game. Effective (and simple) ways to fight avengers early in game:
Buy Fusion Blaster technology from the Merlnorme and install into Precursor ship. (Ion guns are not very ineffective)
Use Spathi Eluders -- a bit boring but playable.
Use Orz ships -- situable.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Death 999 on March 25, 2008, 03:31:25 pm
The fusion blaster is optional, though it speeds things up substantially. What you really really need is halfway decent speed and full turning jets, fire discipline, and patience.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 25, 2008, 09:40:12 pm
While it is possible, under the right conditions, I'd never recommend using
an Earthling against an Ilwrath. The Syreen are much better for this.
Get is fairly close, drain their crew out and pick them up. Once the Ilwrath
is out of crew, the Syreen's gun can pick it off fairly quickly.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Waylander on March 26, 2008, 01:50:19 pm
I usually find that the Thraddash torch is a ridiculously versatile ship. It can take on just about everything. Illwrath, Green Quans, Orz, Terrans, Druuge, shofixti, Mycon, Chmmr, Pkunk, Supox, Androsynth, Utwig, Yehat, Zoqfotpik, Slylandro. Most of these can't even hurt a Torch let alone take it out unless you are really unlucky. But yeah as I was supposed to be saying Earthling cruiser vs Illwrath (Avenger?) :'( not happening any time soon. Thats why we need Torches lots and lots of torches!


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Death 999 on March 26, 2008, 03:27:35 pm
If you're that into abusing the AI, then I'd suggest using Fwiffo; you can consistently get the Probe to run away from you for no good reason, and sometimes slip hits in in the process. Torches not necessary.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Saros on March 26, 2008, 06:50:05 pm
An Avenger can be beaten by a Cruiser. But only if the enemy is a computer(even on awesome difficulty). The best tactic is staying pretty far out of range and using your Nukes at the invisible ship. Accuracy and good aim are required. An avenger is slightly faster than a Cruiser, but with skill and smart uage of the planetoid the fight can be won.

Exceptions - unlucky meteor hits which push you towards the Avenger, or spawning very close to the spider ship in the start of the battle.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Cedric6014 on March 26, 2008, 09:25:20 pm
If you're that into abusing the AI, then I'd suggest using Fwiffo; you can consistently get the Probe to run away from you for no good reason, and sometimes slip hits in in the process. Torches not necessary.

I concur with that

The best way of picking off probes with little danger is using the Spathi that you should get early in the game. For some inexplicable reason when I first played this game I used only cruisers – this was extremely expensive. Then Jesus came to me in a dream and said “hey, you know, try the Spathi butt rockets and keep flying away”. It worked! I find laterally across the screen is best – you just flip around when the probe changes direction – which he does before he catches you.

Curiously enough this tactic does not work against SuperMelee AI. I think there was a good reason for this…




Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Saros on March 26, 2008, 09:50:08 pm
Well, there is yet another tactic that works in the Fwiffo vs Ilwrath strategy. If you keep a distance close enough to an Ilwrath when firing the BUTT torpedoes, the Ilwrath will de-cloak and try to intercept them with his plasma weapon. And a good Spathy pilot can arm his torpedoes in such a manner that they always bypass the plasma beam and hit the enemy(fortunately the Ilwrath is a large enough ship)

This tactic works also vs the Super Melee awesome AI.


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: jaychant on April 07, 2008, 06:15:43 am
Why does everyone say that the Avenger is faster than the Cruiser? The Avenger has better acceleration, but the Cruiser has better speed. ::)


Title: Re: Beating ilwrath avengers with the human ship, is it possible?
Post by: Lukipela on April 07, 2008, 10:45:36 am
Nort according to this (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Avenger) and this (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Cruiser). Look at the bottom of the pages for stats. They are very close though.