The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

I have great difficulty defeating utwig ships about the only way i can beat them is to either use a torch because the AI is too stupid to shield from the flames (sometimes) or to use a ship with homing weaponry but intentionally have close misses because thats the only time the AI shields. Using the mycon or the earthling cruiser for example. But this strategy is difficult because the utwig moves faster than them and once its in range you don't get out. Is there any other strategy that anyone can suggest apart from suiciding with shofixti?

if you have a ship with a 1-point-damage weapon, use it in at about half second-1second intervals. This way, if the opponent shields, he/she will lose some energy. The AI will always shield.

Ships that can do this:
Shofixti
Slylandro
Arilou
Thraddash
Supox
Spathi (for best results, drain the battery and consistantly fire.)
Mmrnmhrm Y

Most of those ships do not hold up at all against a player controlled Utwig at all, but I can see this thread is about fighting the awesome cyborg so I wont dispute the above post.

My favorite way to nail an Utwig is with VUX. Limpets are not devoured by the absorption field, so you can grind that ship to a halt by spamming limpets for long enough. The only thing that's difficult about VUX vs Utwig is that you start right next to the target every single time and have to wriggle away as fast as you can. If the Utwig and VUX are both the first ships to go into combat, they both warp in at a complete stop. Starting right next to Utwig with zero momentum is a bad thing, but I've found that I can get away from an Utwig simply by dumping both weapons at the start before struggling to get away. The Utwig will absorb your laser, but that stops them from shooting at you. Once you get clear of the Utwig's firing range, they're not going to be able to hit you again. Winning VUX vs Utwig with 4-10 crew left is typical. This also works against players, although the start is almost never as intense.

Chenjesu, if you play it carefully, can be effective because of the DOGIs, but even then the Utwig weapon is pretty fierce. Fighting against the computer, I find Supox works well. Just fly in reverse and fire just out of ran,ge the Utwig seems to not shield itself. Obviously this doesnt work against a human opponent.

If you are just pointing at the Jugger with a ship that has a laser weapon or Antimatter cone, it will shield. This is because it figures you might attack at any time. You can easily exploit this flaw. I can beat an AI Jugger with a Drone easily. All you do is keep the cone on until you get in range, then turn it of and stay in range. Once the Jugger is out of energy, just cone it.

I prefer the Vux way  ;D

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Melnorme special weapon yet.
IIRC, it would disable the special weapon (if the Jugger's shield were not active) or would force the shields to drain the battery endlessly (such as the Androsynth remaining in Comet mode when hit with the blast).

-=PakoPako=-

Try the Androsynth ... its comet attack doesn't recharge the shields.  Also, as mentioned, the Chenjesu D.O.G.I. is truly the bane of the Utwig.  Further, the Orz is excellent with both marines and an easy-to-miss turret.

You can irritate the Utwig to death with a Vux  ;) or, (again, as mentioned) disable the shield with the Melnorme.  Lots of options ... the Utwig just requires a different approach than any other ship so it seems harder.

Androsynth and Chenjesu are risky; Melnorme, VUX, and Orz are good, although you really shouldn't be using the marines.

Use the mortar instead of marines for a 0 damage victory. It has insane range. The marines are just a time-saving mechanism in this case. You of all people should know this. Not that I would recommend using Orz against Utwig at all when there are much cheaper ships that do it better.

Has no one else tried using a Drone? It's actually easier and less time-consuming than using a VUX.

Umgah doesn't work on players. Tricks that work against the AI aren't notable; a person can beat anything the cyborg uses with almost anything.

:( I was thinking of chenjesu... IIRC the Orz can't guarantee a marine victory at all against Utwig. Post fixed

And yet, the OP was asking about defeating the AI.

I acknowledged this previously. That text you've quoted is my response to "has no one tried Umgah?". We've tried it. Jaychant isn't wrong, but there's a point where techniques that work against the AI lose all meaning.

Yes, as Shiver is well aware, he should be talking about what this thread is about, and this thread is about fighting an AI controlled Jugger, NOT a human controlled Jugger. Against an AI controlled Jugger, it is much more effective to use a Drone than an Intruder (because you don't need to start by crippling it with limpets).

Some people enjoy kicking the ball into their own goal. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Some people aren't as good as you, Shiver.

The phrasing confuses me a little. At what point is that?

-=PakoPako=-

When you fight a human, especially an expert human like Shiver.

Ah, I finally remember.

Yeah. Good times.

-=PakoPako=-

Yes, it only took you... let's see, add 9 and 6, carry the two... Six days to remember!

I need to say something here.

I agree with just about everything Elvish Pillager and Shiver say on melee. These guys are basically the community’s academics on the subject.  They’ve played just about every conceivable combination of every ship many times over….and that’s just against each other. I agree because I’m just about as good/experienced as they are (or was) and have done the whole Player vs Player thing. The folks who are bothered arguing with them are folks who have considerably less experience in PvP. If you’re going to get into an argument with these guys over what ships are how effective against what other ships you are wasting your time. You are going to be wrong and indeed proven so in the melee arena.

I’m personally not bothered with any discussion on melee vs AI, it’s not relevant to me.

HOWEVER…..

I don’t see why discussion on the subject of melee should be restricted to the 3 or 4 people who have devoted their lives to being melee grand masters

The vast majority of UQM members have not honed their skills and strategies over a zillion PvP match-ups. In fact for most, their PVP experience is probably limited to a handful of PvP games vs their 7 year old cousin. The bulk of their experience will be countless hours against the mindless AI.

It’s not fair that EP and Shiver shoot down any opinion some noob posts about his melee experiences. The fact is, if you’re not that experienced at PvP, your opinion is almost certainly going to be wrong in the eyes of the veterans.

I say to Shiver and EP: bite your tongue. As hard as this may be when some fool extols the virtues of the Umgah, or insists that a Spathi is a super counter to a Kohr-ah.

The UQM forum is for people who love star control (or at least it has become this). They are entitled to have a robust discussion at their own level without being made fools of. If these guys know they’re going to be shot down when ever they utter something remotely related to Melee, they’re not going to bother.  Foster their enthusiasm in net melee, don’t destroy it.

Cedric: Amen brother!

Well put. I'll try to focus more on the big picture from now on. I could at least soften the rhetoric up a bit. Or a lot. Maybe let a dumb post or two slide entirely. As for Elvish Pillager, I don't see the problem with his posting habits. He's usually quite restrained on the forums. He's been a bit obstinate in the Banana Boat thread, but that's about it.



Funny that you mention that. Spathi as a Kohr-Ah killer was the very first thing I fixated upon when I got into super melee, although you won't find evidence of it on the forums. It took a few bludgeoning sessions before I learned the error of my ways. I'm certainly not above doing a little bit of dumb newbie crap.

Thank you!

How about a "netmelee message template" starting with an introduction like this?

That may be so in a match against the AI, or between beginner or even intermediate players; however, things are different from my experience as a veteran netmelee player.

Cedric, once again you are the voice or reason and I agree wholeheartedly. Especially in terms of fostering enthusiasm for net melee.  :D

As far as new players expressing opinions, I'm all for it. I think a lot of the fun of melee is expressing your ideas and strategies and testing them in battle. I remember the excitement of discovering the Mmrnmhrm could defeat the dreaded Ur-Quan in SC1.  ;D These little things are a ton of fun to think about when you're just getting started.

(As a side note, I at one point endorsed the Ur-Quan as the best ship in the game. Shows you what I knew!)

A lot of these posts aren't dumb in the context in. If you're going up against someone inexperienced, or the AI, those 'dumb' tactics can work.

I may have holes in my memory, my mathematics, my underwear, and my memory, but I've never seen that FunRom before!


True. Any ship has a chance against another. It just depends on skill, perseverence, and a little luck.

-=PakoPako=-

Spathi against anything FTW!  Long live the glorious Spathi Empire!  Long Live Emperor Fwiffo!

::removes tongue from cheek::