The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Shiver on April 26, 2008, 08:08:51 am



Title: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on April 26, 2008, 08:08:51 am
This thread is a continuation of some argument over a very bad video I posted (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3882.0). To be concise, the issue is that the Thraddash Torch has insane speed, extremely long range and an insignificant price tag. The ship is completely broken and not terribly fun to play with. If you want some more context, go ahead and skim over it. There were some ideas thrown around about what it would take to make the Thraddash Torch a balanced ship in net melee. After some extensive prodding by C_Bob, I'm bringing the issue back up. This thread is not idle musing; Elvish Pillager has made complete variants of UQM's combat engine before and would be willing to do so again.

My own suggestion is to change the Torch's peashooter into a short-ranged shotgun that can inflict meager crew damage and take up a large portion of the Thraddash's battery, perhaps even the entire bar. The primary weapon should be junky, and only something you use when the afterburner clearly isn't viable. With the afterburner, give flame jets a longer duration on the field so that a Thraddash could surround an opponent with them. Possibly even make the jets require less battery power to create. The idea is to make the flame jets a decent weapon that's fun to use against people.

Any input on what could possibly make Thraddash playable would be appreciated.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: C. Bob on April 26, 2008, 08:28:08 am
In my old ideal scenario, the Thraddash Torch was designed more or less along the lines of the Scout and Stinger; instead of a highly-damaging secondary, the main gun was made shorter-ranged, but rapid-firing; in other words, a lethal macgun. This was to counter out the Stinger and Scout, which had weak primaries but good secondaries. The afterburner did no damage, but still had 2 armor. The ship moved faster on a normal basis, but the afterburner speed boost was made weaker.

Now, I'm not so sure. I can see the desire to improve the afterburner as a combat tool, but I'm not altogether sure it's viable at achieving the goal of making the Torch exciting, without doing some extensive changes. The simplest, most direct alteration would be to make the gun into a lethal, almost Ur-Quan-ish main, consuming basically the entire energy bar, and slowing down the afterburner. The gun change seems rather like what the Thraddash might like, but it may not 'scale' with their technological ability. Such a weak change to the afterburner may not really resolve the problems with it.

Thirdly, we could make the Torch gun fairly long-ranged, still (not as much as it is now), but the Torch virtually immobile in normal flight, only moving to acceptable speeds with the afterburner. The afterburner would still have a high cost, so as to permit only a few moments of extra-fast movement. The gun damage could be bumped up.

All in all, it's a difficult line of discussion, but I'm confident that with sufficient dicussion, a suitable solution to this problem can be determined, and we can regain the use of the Torch in netplay. The current situation, banning it, is really a band-aid fix and doesn't do anything to alleviate the underlying problems.

- Bob


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Elvish Pillager on April 26, 2008, 12:26:41 pm
I think you're both missing a bit of perspective here. The Thraddash Torch is so fundamentally broken that "fixing" it is equivalent to adding a whole new ship to netplay. In what way will this new ship by Thraddash? If it's supposed to be loyal to the storyline, then I can't agree with modifications that makes the afterburner their most effective weapon - you'd think that if the Thraddash had a giant flaming weapon, they'd use it.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on April 26, 2008, 11:28:12 pm
I think you're both missing a bit of perspective here. The Thraddash Torch is so fundamentally broken that "fixing" it is equivalent to adding a whole new ship to netplay. In what way will this new ship by Thraddash? If it's supposed to be loyal to the storyline, then I can't agree with modifications that makes the afterburner their most effective weapon - you'd think that if the Thraddash had a giant flaming weapon, they'd use it.

No, this has nothing to do with the storyline. So let's add a new ship to the balance mod and try to make it fun.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on April 28, 2008, 01:50:19 am
What about making the Thraddash's projectiles inflict knockback on the enemy ship?  The thing about the afterburner trails is that you'll never be damaged by them if you just don't move, and this would give the Thraddash a way to deal with that.  Might be too powerful though, even with altered range and energy usage.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Elvish Pillager on April 28, 2008, 02:01:16 am
Hey, that might be a decent idea. Just change the main weapon to give significant knockback and zero damage.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Death 999 on April 29, 2008, 10:56:08 pm
Or just make the afterburner flames move.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Cedric6014 on April 30, 2008, 12:21:41 am
Something I don't understand here. You want to make the thraddash MORE powerful?

I'd make it less. My suggestion is keep the flames and the pea-shooter as they are, but when the flames are deployed, the thraddash still travels at its thrust speed - and doesnt go hurtling across the screen. this is what makes the torch so horrible to play against - you cant catch the damn thing.

You'd still keep the essence of the craft, but you'd still be able to hunt it down and destroy it. And it would be worth its 10 points


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Elvish Pillager on April 30, 2008, 01:04:28 am
All of the suggestions given so far make the Thraddash weaker overall (assuming it's played to the limit.)


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on April 30, 2008, 02:30:33 am
Maybe thinking up a niche for the ship before designing its abilities would be better. I've noticed that Syreen tends to tear through everything at or below its price, even in the balance mod. Why not turn Thraddash into a Syreen-killer that's mediocre against most other ships?


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Cedric6014 on April 30, 2008, 03:31:18 am
All of the suggestions given so far make the Thraddash weaker overall (assuming it's played to the limit.)

Well excuuuuuuuse me for not reading any of the posts in the thread properly.

I still think my suggestion is the bestest


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Death 999 on May 01, 2008, 04:46:57 pm
I think making the afterburner flames move would make the torch stronger, but the main effect would be to make optimal play not so damn irritating. I don't mind it being around as strong as a cruiser, if it takes some fun to play right. As it stands, if you don't abuse it, it's significantly weaker than, well, just about anything.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on May 02, 2008, 01:04:18 pm
Why not turn Thraddash into a Syreen-killer that's mediocre against most other ships?

Yeah, I can see that as being a good niche for the Thraddash.  But I'd also like  to see the modified Thraddash at least somewhat resemble the original ship.  It seems like it would be pretty difficult to design a Syreen counter with that restriction. 

Actually, I'd be impressed if someone could design a Syreen counter at all.  But then again, I'm pretty new to Melee compared to some of the people here, so maybe it's not such a daunting task to someone who has more thoroughly internalized the principles of the game.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Alvarin on May 02, 2008, 01:19:13 pm
Speaking of Syreen killer , and please don't throw things on me for suggesting it , it should be a Taalo ship , as they are immune to the psychic compulsion , or , if only SC2 ships are allowed , it should be one of the mechanized races - Mrnhrm or the Slylandro probe . I'm not suggesting the Broodhome , as being way too powerfull .


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Niles on May 03, 2008, 02:47:18 pm
How about making the Thraddash behave more like a rhino in combat?


* Make the primary create and hold a "shot" in front of the ship, sort of like the Melnorme when charging.
* No energy requirement for the primary.
* Add knockback for the primary.
* Scale primary damage and knockback based on relative speed.
* If released, the primary's "shot" does not go anywhere - it simply disappears.

* Reduce the afterburn damage to 1 per fire.


This should result in more direct, adrenaline-friendly action where the Thraddash charge in to do serious damage instead of being most effective when running away.

I imagine that the experience would be that as the Thraddash, you would try to position yourself and then charge in. The exact distance would probably vary with the situation; if you start closer you'll have an easier time hitting the target but you'll also do less damage. Big, slow ships would be grateful distance targets. Sure, the enemy may try to drop stuff or shoot in your general direction, but your "horn" should be able to push through most things at sufficient speed.

As someone facing a Thraddash, I imagine you would be on your toes to try to stay out of the charging rhino's way. In hotseat games, you could taunt your opponent as if you were a matador. If you have a very small and agile ship, you might be able to actually play the part - such as with the Arilou, who should be relatively able to get just out of the way and then poke the Thraddash with that stingy laser.

As someone playing a Thraddash facing a Thraddash, the results ought to be... interesting.


At least, that's what I think.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Alvarin on May 03, 2008, 03:54:48 pm
Nice idea - make a rhino behave like one :)


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on May 04, 2008, 01:47:24 am
I think I like Niles' design best out of all of those suggested so far.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Death 999 on May 06, 2008, 11:30:03 pm
Or for even more charging action, make the thraddash have the special ability that it can pass through enemy ships. Then it can drop flames inside them, which really changes the tactics.
Flames would have to be toned down in that case, of course.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Mr Brian on May 07, 2008, 06:23:58 am
Well I tried my hand a quick edit of the ship

Thruster used to give a boost of 12

Now gives a boost of 3,  and the flames get a boost of 9 in opposite direction.
Bullet life shortened from 15 to 8  and inherits parent velocity  (none of the long shots while moving backwards stuff..)
Flames inherit 50% of ships velocity

So now a new tactic for the thraddash can be to fly towards the opponent, spin and hit the afterburners, sending flames their way

http://cid-e4f1227696c43a98.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/uqm-thradedit.zip


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Terrell on May 12, 2008, 10:11:26 pm
I would leave it alone for the most part.  If I were going to change it at all, I'd allow it to fire slightly faster (2 shots on screen at once rather than 1), and slightly shorten the range of the main gun (maybe 5%).  The remaining features of the ship I would keep the same.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on May 23, 2008, 11:58:37 am
Actually, I'd be impressed if someone could design a Syreen counter at all.
Having posted that, it was inevitable that I'd end up trying my hand at sketching out such a ship myself.  I figure I might as well post it here, as there's not that much activity of any other kind in this thread at the moment.


Quote
Speed:  slow
Acceleration:  moderate?
Turning rate:  poor to moderate
Mass:  4?
Size:  Medium, with sides somewhat wider than front and back
Crew:  24?
Battery:  24?
Energy regain:  Moderate?

Primary:  Forward-firing laser weapon, with somewhat longer range than the VUX laser.  The catch is that it doesn't fire every frame.  Its damage per second should be moderate, as should its energy usage be.  The beam should be very wide, making it hard to hide between facings.

Secondary:  Four missiles launched simultaneously from the diagonal corners of the ship (spaced at 90 degree intervals).  These missiles have only 1 hp each.  They should also be pretty small and hard to shoot down.
Damage:  2?
Speed:  same as Earthling missiles?
Range:  medium
Homing:  good, but not enough for you to ever be hit by more than two from the same launch
Knockback:  enough to keep small ships at a distance from you, but not enough to have much of an effect on a large ship.
Rate of fire:  moderate to fast
Energy usage:  4?

The secondary is the main reason I think this ship would counter Syreen.  A faster ship can dodge the missiles, a ship with better weapons can shoot them down, and a larger ship can just plow right through them.  The Syreen, on the other hand, has no defensive weapons, low mass, and poor acceleration.

Bear in mind that I'm not saying this should necessarily be done to the Thraddash; it was just a thought experiment.  I'd also like to know whether or not you guys think this design is any good.  I'm pretty sure I have the general idea right, but this ship could easily be overpowered or underpowered or not fun to play.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on May 23, 2008, 02:28:56 pm
I'd also like to know whether or not you guys think this design is any good.

That design is good, probably good enough to put in the game. I have one beef with it: That appears to be stronger than 10 points. Possibly stronger than the balance mod Syreen cost of 14. An extremely wide beam that fires sporadically sounds like a clumsy weapon, but with wide enough coverage that you can shoot down Earthling missiles, Spathi Torpedos and VUX limpets consistently. Fast ships like Slylandro would have a problem with the missiles unless you were very particular about how you balanced them.

To nitpick a bit, I should also point out that Syreen's acceleration is very good. The problem is its top speed, which is what you must have meant.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: jaychant on May 23, 2008, 09:04:51 pm
Shiver, I would think you of all people would know that the Syreen's acceleration is not very good. How do you figure it's good? Sure, the delay is small (close to nonexistent), but the acceleration is lacking.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Elvish Pillager on May 23, 2008, 09:36:12 pm
What are you talking about? Syreen are about on par in acceleration with Ilwrath and Orz.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on May 24, 2008, 03:17:00 am
An extremely wide beam that fires sporadically sounds like a clumsy weapon, but with wide enough coverage that you can shoot down Earthling missiles, Spathi Torpedos and VUX limpets consistently.
Well, I had thought that the ship's turning rate would be slow enough for this not to matter.  Feel free to nerf the primary, though; it's not a big part of the design of the ship.  I could have easily made it something lame like the Spathi's primary, but I guess I made it unique just for fun.

To nitpick a bit, I should also point out that Syreen's acceleration is very good. The problem is its top speed, which is what you must have meant.
Sorry about that.


Edit:  Thinking about it some more, there really is no good way to balance the wide laser beam with turning rates.  The Melnorme's poor turning speed doesn't prevent its charge shot from being used as a shield.  And this ship should have decent turning speed anyway, so that you can aim the missiles.  Nerfed primary it is.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Cedric6014 on May 25, 2008, 10:15:39 pm
Shiver, I would think you of all people would know that the Syreen's acceleration is not very good. How do you figure it's good? Sure, the delay is small (close to nonexistent), but the acceleration is lacking.

Arg


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Lukipela on May 26, 2008, 01:38:36 pm
I'm really going to have to call trolling on this, unless jaychant forgot the difference between acceleration and speed in just a few months.

Why does everyone say that the Avenger is faster than the Cruiser? The Avenger has better acceleration, but the Cruiser has better speed. ::)

Or perhaps I haven't been reading the threads closely enough and am missing something embarassingly simple. Oh well.

The new ship looks interesting, and I look forward to trying it out in a mod. I'll leave it to the experts to design the most suitable ship though.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: jaychant on May 27, 2008, 06:30:13 am
I don't know why you think that the Syreen's acceleration is good and its top speed is bad, but oh well. It looks to me like the top speed is average at least, but it takes like 2 seconds to get to that top speed!


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on May 27, 2008, 07:08:33 am
Quote from: Lukipela
The new ship looks interesting, and I look forward to trying it out in a mod.

Yeah, whenever EP decides to do something. That or we're going to need another person who can program and compile.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Waylander on May 29, 2008, 02:48:14 pm
While I know I'm gonna cop it for this I honestly don't see a problem with the Torch provided the person who plays it is decent at attacking. I mean I can play the Torch and I don't run away for like 20 minutes (whoever that person is you should be ashamed) I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to you could do the same with other ships with high top speeds such as the Skiff or the Eluder and they even have more effective weapons.

I do think though that if the flames took some of the speed from the ship when they were dropped that it would make it an extremely effective weapon. I know when i use the Torch i get quite annoyed at the flames when they just drop and sit in the stupidest position when they should move in regards to the ships motion. I can imagine doing a quick 180 in front of a 'banana boat' and watching it burn to pieces as it frantically tries to escape the oncoming fiery death.   


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Elvish Pillager on May 29, 2008, 10:16:52 pm
I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to you could do the same with other ships with high top speeds such as the Skiff or the Eluder and they even have more effective weapons.
Not long range.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Waylander on May 30, 2008, 06:26:50 am
I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to you could do the same with other ships with high top speeds such as the Skiff or the Eluder and they even have more effective weapons.
Not long range.

True their weapons aren't long range but the Torch's fire is easy to dodge at long range and their puny little gun is next to useless so i don't think the Torch can be said to be good at long range either


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on May 30, 2008, 07:27:13 am
True their weapons aren't long range but the Torch's fire is easy to dodge at long range and their puny little gun is next to useless so i don't think the Torch can be said to be good at long range either

The pipgun is unlikely to land a hit on Arilou, but most mid-speed and slow ships can be taken apart given a little persistence.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Waylander on May 30, 2008, 07:37:47 pm
The pipgun is unlikely to land a hit on Arilou, but most mid-speed and slow ships can be taken apart given a little persistence.

I was comparing the Torch's long range weaponry with that of the other ships that can quite easily flee such as the Eluder and the Skiff. I was just saying that the Torch's weaponry is not really long range because it is so ineffectual. The flames can simply be steered around (at long range) and the gun is pretty easy to avoid.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: jaychant on May 30, 2008, 09:11:51 pm
Usually, I'm totally against Shiver's ideas, but I actually agree with him. The reason the Torch is such a boring fight is because the Mark 6 blaster is so weak, yet the Torch can easily stay away from most enemy fire given the right skill. The weapon is long range, and the problem with the Torch is most players will use the Mark 6 blaster at long range. They miss much of the time and even when it hits, it does little damage. However, most ships cannot catch up with the Torch very easily, so it also takes forever for the Torch to take damage. The fact that the Torch has ineffective, long range weaponry is what gets us into these long, boring stalemates.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Niles on May 30, 2008, 10:33:24 pm
* Reducing the primary weapon range
* Making the flames inherit a portion of the speed
* Reducing flame lifespan
would make for more action. Not sure if the AI could be taught to handle the flames efficiently though.

Personally, I would probably prefer my "rhino" suggestion and given how the Thraddash seems to charge in straight at me sometimes (especially when slimed well, VUX-style), the AI might be able to handle that change well enough.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: jaychant on May 30, 2008, 11:02:21 pm
It doesn't matter if the AI can't handle it, it just matters if it's more fun to play. The AI doesn't handle the original very well, anyways.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on May 31, 2008, 04:42:34 am
Well, since this mod's entire purpose is netplay, I don't think the AI really matters here.  But the advantage some of the simpler changes have over the ramming idea is that they can be implemented pretty quickly (someone already did this earlier in the thread; unfortunately I have no idea what to do with the download to make it work).

I still like the zero-damage, knockback-based primary idea better than the moving flames.  But there really are quite a lot of different designs that have been posted in this thread, and I don't know if people are planning to test all of them or if anything has already been decided upon or what.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Waylander on May 31, 2008, 06:16:51 am
Jaychant I see what you mean.

Niles I think the Rhino idea is good but I honestly can't see it being an effective attack tactic against any kinds of fast turning ship but it does alleviate the whole pathetic weapons point so yeah. Can you imagine trying to rhino a Jugger or an Ugmah?


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Valaggar Redux on May 31, 2008, 07:58:51 pm
Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1583686) is an ugly amateurish hack of UQM that implements Niles' design. Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1583696) is the modified ship code file (if you're not on Windows, or want to laugh at my amateurish coding).

Put the executable in the folder with your UQM executable, and use it to run UQM.

Put the zip file wherever your addon pack is (it's not needed, but it'll make the Thraddash's primary bigger -- it's really hard to hit the enemy ship with the usual size). Be sure to make a shortcut to the modded executable where you tell it to use the addon pack (add [ --addon uqmremix], WITHOUT the brackets, after the quotation marks in the Target field, in the Properties dialog for the shortcut file; use "uqmremix" only if the addon is in content\packages\addons\uqmremix, otherwise use the actual name of the folder where the addon is, e.g. "horns" if it's in content\packages\addons\horns).

(Note that I also made the Torch to have automatic shielding - if the Torch is hit, it automatically expends half the maximum battery to prevent taking damage. Of course, it only does this if it has that much energy. Why did I do this? It just couldn't get near enough to the enemy.)


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on June 01, 2008, 05:26:45 pm
I downloaded and tried out Valaggar's hack. I was actually hoping to see Ph's big slow missile ship instead of NIles' vague suggestion, but here's what he did: The main weapon is now a large projectile that remains stationary in front of the Torch as long as you hold down the button. It looks like a Rhino horn. Very appropriate. The ship kind of sucks in its present form, though. I know 10 point ships are supposed to suck and Ilwrath is bad too, but this ship seems like sort of an Ilwrath lite. Ilwrath has enough crew to survive a Shofixti glory device or ZFP tongue attack, while this mod Thraddash really can't.

Quote from: Valaggar
Note that I also made the Torch to have automatic shielding - if the Torch is hit, it automatically expends half the maximum battery to prevent taking damage. Of course, it only does this if it has that much energy. Why did I do this? It just couldn't get near enough to the enemy.

That's a weird tweak and I don't really care for it. It's good for absorbing hits from the Druuge, while generally sucking at protecting the Thraddash from more common threats. It also messes up your battery bad when you're trying to ram into a Spathi or Zoq-Fot-Pik or anything really.

It's a start, anyway. Glad to see someone try to alter the ship.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Valaggar Redux on June 03, 2008, 09:04:34 pm
Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1588490) is a mod that implements Ph's design. Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1588484) is the modified ship code file.

Ph's Torch (or at least my version thereof):

Quote
Speed: slower than VUX
Acceleration: excellent (relative to the maximum speed)
Turning rate:  poor to moderate
Mass:  4
Crew:  24
Battery:  24
Energy regain:  Moderate

Primary (4 batt): Four missiles launched simultaneously from the diagonal corners of the ship (spaced at 90 degree intervals). These missiles have only 1 hp each, and deal 2 damage. They also knock back the enemy ship, a-la-Druuge; the knockback is, unlike Druuge, bigger for ships of smaller mass.
(Damage:  2
Speed:  very fast, accelerate
Range:  great
Homing: moderate, not enough for you to ever be hit by more than two from the same launch
Knockback: enough to keep small ships at a distance from you, but not enough to have much of an effect on a large ship.
Rate of fire:  moderate
Energy usage:  4)

Secondary (18 batt): Forward-firing collection of laser beams, with longer range than the VUX laser. Each beam deals 1 damage (there are 9 beams total). Nigh useless (save for maybe against Utwig), must be improved. Probably I should stick to something closer to Ph's original proposal (however, in order to do this, I must figure out how to make wide laser beams, and not just collections of lasers).

All in all, this ship really sucks (should probably cost less than 10 points), which isn't necessarily a bad thing, given that it's good against Syreen (I hope; I tested only against the Awesome AI and against myself). It's kind of boring to play as, though.

-------------

Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1588525) is a slightly updated version of Niles' Torch. It doesn't have automatic shielding and has 14 crew. Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1588554) is the modified source code file, note that you'll have to download the other file too because it's the only one containing the add-on.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on June 03, 2008, 10:36:57 pm
Critique #2:

The four corner missiles don't track nearly well enough. A Zoq-Fot-Pik or Umgah could easily lay waste to this ship in PVP. Syreen would also win here. It's just too easy to sneak right in close without being hit. The sound effect isn't appropriate for a volley of missiles. Switch in the Mmrnhrm weapon sound instead?

The beam is crap, but you already knew that. The coverage needs to be a lot better for one thing. The damage may or may not need improvement. I like that you made the energy cost of the weapon prohibitively expensive so that it isn't really viable for blocking incoming projectiles.


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Ph on June 04, 2008, 02:29:01 am
Probably I should stick to something closer to Ph's original proposal (however, in order to do this, I must figure out how to make wide laser beams, and not just collections of lasers).

Not necessarily.  The primary doesn't really have much of an impact on whether or not the ship counters Syreen, so it might as well be something straightforward like the Spathi's main or the Stinger's spray cannon.  I'm not sure why I made the wide beam a part of the ship in the first place (just trying to make it unique, I guess).

Also, I haven't actually played this, because I have no idea how to play mods.  And does it make a difference that I'm using a Mac?


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Valaggar Redux on June 19, 2008, 04:22:17 pm
Here (http://www.savefile.com/files/1618369)'s a new version, hopefully a better one.
(Hold primary to keep the missiles going; use left/right to steer the missiles; use special to make them explode, dealing their damage and knockback to ships within a certain distance. Special consumes an additional 4 batt -- no matter whether you have 1, 2, 3 or 4 missiles)


Title: Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
Post by: Shiver on June 27, 2008, 01:39:05 am
Tried the third Thraddash. The explosion radius is way too small and the knockback effect is weak considering that this is not a weapon you would be able to spam multiple hits back to back. You could boost the ship up in some fashion so that it's not as weak, but I don't think this ship would be all that fun to play with in multiplayer even if it was at just the right level of power.