The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Arne on September 24, 2008, 09:36:13 am



Title: Chenjesu
Post by: Arne on September 24, 2008, 09:36:13 am
I'm having troubles with these. Some conclusions:

  • I wanted to do a body because I'm not too keen on magic stuff like levitating giant crystals. It's ok if they're placed on a gizmo though ;)
  • The lower body ('pot'), if it exists at all, should probably be simple and not dominant, because it's not seen on the original art.
  • I tried a white pot before (like the ship hull), but since the sprite appears against a black background, I made the pot black.
  • There's some purple long shapes, reflecting the little pet, co-pilot, control panel seen in the portrait sprite.
  • Maybe the high frequency resonators are worn on the body, for communication purposes. Adding them makes the body more complex though, but the blue tone is there in some of the crystal reflections, so adding a blue element rhymes with that. I made them look a bit like dog legs, although they're probably for levitation control. Or perhaps the Chenjesu skips around like silly little dogs, barking out their ancient wisdom.
  • The lower jaw came from the little loose knob at the bottom on the portrait sprite. Not sure if I want them to look human faced though.
  • Symmetry or not? No conclusion.
  • Perhaps since the Mmrnmhrm are techy, the Chenjesu pots should not be.
  • Maybe the Chenjesu are immobile and use 'slaves', like their D.O.G.I.

I think the colored ones lack detail-flow and are haphazard :/

(http://androidarts.com/starcontrol/chenjesu.jpg)

ref:
http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/sc1/chentech.shtml


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: Alvarin on September 24, 2008, 10:05:19 am
I think that the Chenjesu are actually the purple crystals and what you drew is the control panel ...


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: meep-eep on September 24, 2008, 10:08:14 am
Because intelligence is only an advantageous trait for those species able to affect their surroundings, I would expect their mobility to be naturally evolved. Maybe they can move through manipulation of other species, or maybe they can generate some sort of force field, or maybe they use a piezoelectric effect (which is not out of character for crystals) to generate motion.


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: Arne on September 24, 2008, 01:20:24 pm
In case you weren't joking, in SC1 the green crystal appears on the victory screen as a portrait.

I gave the mobility issue some thought and came to pretty much the same conclusion. It's a good idea to start with thinking how they evolved. I had some vague idea that as a primitive species they were like plants, able to manipulate the ground around them to fashion objects, shapes and channels via some process of rapid fossilization. It'd be like a very complex root system, devised to facilitate gathering of materials for crystal growth, repairs and reproduction. It could also be used for communication. Eventually it became so complex that mobility was possible, like sliding on granules.

I can picture them being the only life form on the planet, sliding across its flat calm surface for eons, hunting for the best growth spots, slowly evolving.  Our plants do not need to improvise because their environment is pretty predictable. If what nourishes the Chenjesu requires constant on-the-feet strategical thinking, that would sponsor intelligence, I think.

Also, cultural memory could be preserved by writings/sculptures in the ground, perhaps in such a way that their memetic regression is slower than ours, and their progression is stronger. Perhaps their evolution is almost entirely memetic. Their potential for intelligence was supported all along and they just needed to achieve certain structures.

Humans have had a very significant memetic evolution too.


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: Glory_device on September 24, 2008, 03:33:53 pm
Based on how they reacted toward slavery, every option that include slavery for doing action X is to be rejected.... My guess would be that they do not walk also... They could use levitation to move like the way snowspeeder in starwars is built. Wave that negate the gravity. stronger is the wave higher they go or manipulating magnetic field to bring them close to metal or something...this is a very cool question. I will have to think about it some more!


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: meep-eep on September 24, 2008, 04:02:14 pm
This is what the manual has to say about the Chenjesu:
Quote
This race is the only known form of silicon-based life-form to have achieved intelligence naturally. The Chenjesu are the oldest, most technologically advanced species in the Alliance, and while all members in the Alliance are officially equal, the Chenjesu are a bit more equal. Since this species evolved as a photo/chemovore (it derives its nourishment from light and ambient minerals) with no natural predators, the Chenjesu are entirely non-aggressive, preferring calm philosophical discourse above all other activities.


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: Arne on September 25, 2008, 02:03:52 am
That seems to rhyme with most of my idea. If they're like plants, then the crystal could be the solar panel (and brain). Afaik, ambient minerals means free floating mineral particles (air or water). Fish accumulate ambient particles found in water. I suppose accumulating them from dust storms would be possible too.

Also, if their evolution is primarily memetic, they probably don't have any need for sexual reproduction, or death. They could still die from some kind of crystalline pathway degradation though (senility).


It would be cool if the Chenjesu were made of something like Gallium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium), that'd make them silver colored though, but they'd get a bunch of weird properties.


Title: Re: Chenjesu
Post by: Shiver on September 25, 2008, 10:48:56 am
I find the Chenjesu a bit ridiculous myself, but it doesn't hurt to try and think up plausible explanations for how they live and function as a star faring species. Perhaps the Chenjesu homeworld has much lower gravity than Earth so unconventional means of travel are viable?


    I wanted to do a body because I'm not too keen on magic stuff like levitating giant crystals. It's ok if they're placed on a gizmo though ;)[/li][/list]

    The Chenjesu do make Star Control seem a little bit like "Final Fantasy: Search for the Frickin' Crystal", but you might have to bite the bullet on that. Your current artwork barely differentiates Chenjesu from Chmmr. C'mon man, draw a spiffy electrical field holding them up instead of a flying segway!

    Oh yeah, almost forgot to post the requisite "wow it's Arne's artwork, that looks amazing!" bit. There you go.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 25, 2008, 11:07:44 am
    haha, yeah, they do have a blue force field around them in the SC 1 victory portraits image... but all portraits do.

    I'll have another go at them after I've bought some candy.

    I do agree that giving them a techy Seegway makes the 'polarity' with the Mmrnmhrm suffer.

    Perhaps a Chenjesu is carried by a turtle... carried by an elephant.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Waylander on September 25, 2008, 12:59:08 pm
    Perhaps a Chenjesu is carried by a turtle... carried by an elephant.

    Which is in turn carried by an elephant :P (and so on for all infinity)

    Anyway I always thought of the Chenjesu as hovering somehow... perhaps they have telekinesis? I mean if the Pkunk can be psychic, why cant the Chenjesu be telekinetic? And with the whole 'pot' thing in your drawing i dont think the Chenjesu would need a control panel, as crystals they could adjust their own conductivity or something like that in order to interact with anything connected to them. (The battle pictures and such always depict them with electricity running around or through them, if they can control this then they wouldnt need any kind of appendages to control external controls) (oh and yes i know that my ideas are probably mutually exclusive)


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 25, 2008, 02:24:18 pm
    The Chenjesu are blue in SC2, green in SC1. Maybe it's ambient light or a reflection. Gallium is reflective (bright silver). Bismuth is another interesting metal which can form crystals (and has 'thermoelectric' properties). It's more rainbow colored though (oily look).

    (http://androidarts.com/starcontrol/gallium_chenjesu.jpg)

    The 'eye' crystals look different in the Amiga version, perhaps. Experimented with a levitation ball and tentacles. I'm not willing to take the step to pot-less just yet.

    I thought the Pkunk were... quacks.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Waylander on September 25, 2008, 06:26:06 pm
    Oh and plus i did some checking (i loaded up UQM :P) and i think that Alvarin was right earlier i think what you have drawn is the controls of the ship not the Chenjesu


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Alvarin on September 25, 2008, 08:48:30 pm
    I have actually found the screenshot of SC1 Alliance victory (not that I didn't  believe Arne in the first place) and there actually is the "control panel" at the victory screen, go figure...
    http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/original/952549871-00.gif


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Death 999 on September 26, 2008, 05:17:27 pm
    I, uh, don't like these chenjesu portraits. They ought to have some way of moving that is not technological in nature.

    I'd generally imagined them lying flat, or when moving, hovering flat, very close to the ground. I'd drop the 'eye' spots and make them less symmetric.
    (edited to add: and I'd be wrong to do that. Hmm)

    Jus my $0.02.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Koowluh on September 26, 2008, 10:36:49 pm
    I saw this thread, and it prompted me to exit lurker mode and post something again.

    I remembered that way back, someone drew up some art of the Chenjesu. I absolutely loved that. The topic was http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3904.15

    Mind you, it is a very old topic, and people have come and gone between now and then. What I said in that topic though still reflects what I think of the Chenjesu; they might have integrated some tech from another race to make their crystalline bodies move around. They may have been fully crystalline and "rigid" in the past, the only movement of an entity  is that of "growing" into a place. Chenjesu ships may have taken them ages to grow in the past, but with gathered tech have allowed them to expand and grow more rapidly.

    So my opinion in short; gathered tech have made them more mobile, before that time, they moved by growing into place, their appearance being that of crystals.

    Feel free to ignore it though, I always love seeing your artwork...


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 27, 2008, 06:38:02 am
    Here's the ref. I don't have UQM on my mac here, but according to some youtube vid the chenjesu are blue in UQM, can anyone confirm? They are green in the official UQM screenshots. With the StarTrek ships they decided to go for white because then they can cast moody colored lights onto the hull. Since the Chenjesu don't have faces, colors can be used to convey mood (for theatrical purposes) if they have a neutral colored body.

    I think my latest shape feels pretty close. As for the pot, I'm not sure. It would make sense for them to augment themselves, they are the most technologically advanced species in the alliance after all. While I can understand the idea of them just floating around, communicating via radio 'telepathy' having lightning bolts for arms, I still think it feels too magical unless there's a tech gizmo there to support it.

    (http://androidarts.com/starcontrol/chenjesu_ref.png)

    Spider legs doesn't feel quite right, but I like the idea of a white color.
    (http://androidarts.com/starcontrol/chenjesu_3.jpg)


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Koowluh on September 28, 2008, 08:18:32 pm
    (http://www.yourimagedump.com/thumb/421_chmmr.0.jpg) (http://www.yourimagedump.com/421_chmmr.0.jpg.html)

    That's a Chenjesu imho, the bit that you've been drawing into a nice looking alien seems more like a control panel to me. But hey, they can both be Chenjesu, humans come in different shapes, sizes and colors too... Why they keep zapping each other to control their ship is a mystery to me though...


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Novus on September 28, 2008, 09:51:02 pm
    The SC2 DOS manual shows them as:
    (http://koti.mbnet.fi/lonnberg/sc2pic-000.jpg)


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 29, 2008, 09:07:28 am
    I'm familiar with these two images, but choose to ignore them because:

    * Manual art: People are more likely to have seen the in-game version the most, especially considering that most people who have played this game never had a manual for various reasons.
    * Chmmr Comm: That is a Chmmr. I don't think the Chmmr are just Chenjesu with some sticky bits on them.


    I've never thought of the purple crystals as Chenjesu, because:

    * The SC1 alliance victory image.
    * Maybe it's read order (L->R) or me being left handed.
    * I think the Purple crystals are the control panel because of Superman's fortress. He has these crystal data/control rods there, so the image of using those as a control panel got ingrained in me when I was  kid.



    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Draxas on September 29, 2008, 08:25:05 pm
    Here's my rather bizarre take: Both of the crystals in the pilot pic are Chenjesu. There's no reason two different Chenjesu couldn't grow into two very different crystalline configurations (if they are, say, from different regions of their planet). The bolts that arc between them are simply an artistic rendering of the communication between the two individuals (or perhaps that is their only means of communication, and they arc "lightning" into translation devices in order to communicate with other races), and they pilot the ship using control devices that they are "seated" on top of (which can be seen underneath the on at right). I like to think this is both plausible, and takes into account all of the existing canon art as well.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: MuadDib on September 30, 2008, 12:48:35 am
    I'm a stranger to these forums, but I don't think they need a non-technological means of transport based on their "lore." I always thought of Star Control as being somewhat of a "hard" sci-fi universe, with more plausible science than others, and for some reason the idea of floating crystals doesn't jive with that. I thought of the chenjensu as being a collective, with their "civilization" consisting of data stored in the crystalline structure of the surface of their homeworld, with some of this "data" being downloaded into their spacefaring vessals to seed new chenjesu colonies.

    Just thought I'd add my two cents, since I'm a fan of Arne's artwork and ideas for a star control game  ;D.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: meep-eep on September 30, 2008, 09:06:51 am
    Hmm... that's an interesting idea. Not the Chenjesu moving, but just their minds. But they still need a way to build their ships.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: psydev on September 30, 2008, 12:58:17 pm
    To the starter of the thread: I generally very much like your art but I really dislike the plain interpretation of the chenjesu. I think that the art from the SC2 manual should be taken seriously as far as a representation of what the chenjesu look like. It resembles the chmmr (as it should, IMHO) and isn't just the ghetto-ized graphic shown in SC1.
       Your depictions make the chenjesu look like blocks and cylinders, whereas I think they should resemble some sort of fractal crystallization pattern, as per the representation in the manual.
       Here's a sketch of what I thought it should roughly look like. These are sketches I made for a comic strip I made once of chenjesu:
    (http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2185/crystal2asketchmz4.th.jpg) (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystal2asketchmz4.jpg)(http://img513.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
    (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7991/comic6vc7.th.jpg) (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comic6vc7.jpg)(http://img216.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)



    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 30, 2008, 06:42:39 pm
    Thanks! Yeah, with so little to go on there can be so many personal interpretations. I generally prefer to stick to the in-game art, but in some cases I feel the manual art works better. Kid Icarus had a great manual, but that is another story.

    Although I could easily just paint something which is kind of crystally and cool, I want to stay faithful to some of the source material. It's fun to play within boundaries sometimes. I briefly had the idea of making the Chenjesu varied in appearance, but decided against it because it seems... nonchalant. I'm not sure how to explain it. It'd be like some exobiologist on some other world speculates that humans could vary in shape from Tribble, pool of slime to T-rex because it's all 'organic stuff'. I wanted a static Chenjesu shape, something monumental (Albert Speer style).

    ---

    Here's an illustration of the idea I presented earlier.

    (http://androidarts.com/starcontrol/chenjesu_evolution.jpg)

    The Chenjesu's evolution is primarily memetic and not a hunt for genetic adaptation to the environment. Their planet is a rather dull place.

    (1) Crystals can form without being intelligent here on earth, I think it's because of how atoms likes to arrange themselves. The Chenjesu type is more complex. It forms by accumulating sunlight, then releasing a burst of electricity. By a chance of nature, this gave the Crystal the ability to attract ambient minerals to build and repair the body. Its a system with 'stabilization feedback' which ultimately results in the body shape known as the Chenjesu. Also by chance, parts of the crystal structure was similar to a neural network of some sort. In the beginning it merely contained a rudimentary clock for emitting the electrical pulses, a bit like a solar powered CPU clock.

    Early in their evolution the Chenjesu were more plant-like, only able to manipulate the ground below them in a very structured way. Perhaps by using Electricity and chemistry they can indirectly make things grow/corrode/fossilize. At first they only used this ability to 'feed'.

    (2) Because of the potential for intelligence that was inherent in their physiology, some eventually figured out how to use their power from more advanced things. They formed little granules to slide on (perhaps spun by electromagnetic stimuli). As they slide across the sterile plains, they leave a characteristic 'sliding rock' trail behind them.

    Since they left traces of their activities in the ground, it was possible for any Chenjesu to study these. A culture of sharing information was established, out of intellectual curiosity. With the planet being a huge monotonous wasteland there was nothing to fight about on a physical level at least.

    (3) The Chenjesu started to build little databank hubs, and eventually devised ways to construct little factories and automated stations. If a Chenjesu needed to be augmented, it could be outfitted with legs, or some device which offered the required mobility, although some just preferred to sit around and ponder.

    Their spaceships are built in large shipyards consisting of a crater with robotic construction arms sliding along the rim. Mobile Chenjesu can then board the ship and fly off into space.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Megagun on September 30, 2008, 07:52:51 pm
    "Sterile featureless planet" is awesome.  :o
    A high-res version of that could definitively be my wallpaper until Holographic displays make wallpapers ugly..

    EDIT: Am I the only one who sees some charm in a version of the Chenjesu where they are sessile, yet able to communicate with eachother through a network of crystals laid in the surface of their world, and only the brightest of the brightest are allowed (mobility and) access to starships?  (Perhaps because it takes them a relatively long time to fabricate starships due to their physiology?)

    Kind of makes you look at the Internet, IRC and perhaps our own sessile lifestyle a little differently, eh? :)


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on September 30, 2008, 09:11:46 pm
    I think my current idea would allow that kind of sessile behavior.  I don't think the Chenjesu would be impractical though, not inventing useful stuff because it doesn't go with their 'crystal image'.


    The illustration of the barren planet is only twice as big on my original, and a bit rough. I think the horizon or figure silhouette placement is wrong too :/
    I have a wallpaper in similar color tone here (http://androidarts.com/fsm/).

    I think a barren planet surface like that, with abstract long straight lines drawn in the sand, might be interesting to set the mood for the Chenjesu. It points out that everything they are  is on the inside.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: psydev on October 02, 2008, 01:08:07 am
    wow, awesome shipyard pic.
    Just thought I'd say that.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Alvarin on October 02, 2008, 10:18:13 am
    Indeed . Really liked the scenery and the shipyard . Still can't really agree on the Chenjesu look , but as said before - personal preferences .


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Matticus on October 04, 2008, 11:17:03 pm
    I love reading the different ideas here. I don't really have anything original to contribute (I know I suck) but I'm pretty good at remembering the "lore" and reading this thread reminded me of a few things.

    For one, the Chenjesu transmit and receive hyperwaves naturally so this would probably play an important role in communication.

    I also came across the following in the IRC chat from long ago, fwiw:

    <_Stilgar> <zenir> Q: how did the chmmr/taalo evolve.. especially to sentients?
    <Fwiffo> Adaptation and evolution require the ability to change in response to the environment.  The Taalo and Chenjesu must either be the product of a previous culture, or they must be mostly software with some kind of field maniulation ability.

    I wonder if any of the ideas presented in this thread would change that opinion?


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on October 05, 2008, 11:55:50 pm
    "or they must be mostly software with some kind of field maniulation ability."

    This seems to be what I'm proposing. Memetic evolution, and some kind of ability to manipulate the earth on a micro level.

    Sorry I left this thread, I got distracted and started coding some games out of the blue.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Alvarin on October 11, 2008, 11:24:43 pm
    While adapting the shipyard picture for desktop backgroud (hope you don't mind) I have noticed really big similarities of the drawing style to that of "Another World" game .


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Resh Aleph on October 12, 2008, 12:15:12 am
    The shipyard drawing is indeed pretty effing awesome. Although, if you take melee physics seriously, there's no way a Broodhome could take off the planet. :P


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Alvarin on October 12, 2008, 12:52:32 am
    How true ...
    But there might be a possibility of assysted launch with a booster , not present later on .


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Arne on October 12, 2008, 08:30:48 pm
    Sorry, no new art.

    I don't think boosters are used. In Star Trek and Starflight the larger ships can land without shuttles. In the Star Control 2 story, an Earthling Cruiser can "land successfully" on an uninhabited planet even after been "severly damaged". Later in the story I think it takes off, goes back to earth and later returns with supplies. It seems landing on planets can be made standard procedure with Earthling Cruisers.

    Maybe they use shuttles because landing a large ship is a big and costly operation. With a shuttle they don't need a good landing site, and they can move around and collect alien artifacts, etc. In the case of Vela 2 they only ever needed to land near the precursor installation. I think there were robots or something moving across the surface to collect minerals.

    In Starflight they used the Terrain Vehicle for mobility of course.

    ---

    Another World was an atmospheric game, but I didn't think about it when doing painting. I should fix the horizon line problem.

    I used to think that the ships were rather small (<50 m.), given their agility, crew count and general fighter feel. Now I'm leaning more towards medium size (100-150 m.). That's pretty small in comparison with Star Trek where the ships are generally 250-650 m.. The Defiant is 120 m. though.  Anyways, this scale would leave room for expansion into larger and smaller classes.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Alvarin on October 12, 2008, 10:23:26 pm
    Arne - Alephresh was referring to the fact that in melee, once Chenjesu ship comes too close to a planet it is almost 100% doomed - it's thrusters are too weak to escape the gravity of a planet.

    Edit - language fixed.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Elvish Pillager on October 13, 2008, 01:04:50 am
    Arne - Alephresh was referring to the fact that in melee, once a Chenjesu ship comes too close to a planet it is almost 100% doomed -its thrusters are too weak to escape the gravity of a planet.

    Edit - language fixed.
    language fixed. 8)


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Death 999 on October 13, 2008, 04:27:45 pm
    My hypothesis on that score would be that when in combat, the ships use some sort of cruising drive which has a variety of effects, among which is greatly magnifying the effects of gravity. It can't be turned off quickly (spinup/spindown time, perhaps) and without it, the ships are unable to approach the tremendous velocities they would need to be basically mobile.

    So, to land, they do turn it off, taking the time to properly do so. This restores gravity to its usual strength, permitting safe takeoff and landing.

    This is the only way I've been able to reconcile the phenomenon of takeoff with the phenomenon of gravity whips.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: jaychant on May 04, 2009, 12:03:53 pm
                What do you mean by Chenjesu?


    (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b24/Nightmare30/Funny%20stuff/facepalm.jpg?t=1241431341)

    You know, Chenjesu, one of the aliens in Star Control I and Star Control II, the games that this forum are all about?


    Moderator edit: removed quote of spam link.


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Lukipela on May 04, 2009, 12:15:21 pm
    It's some sort of spam jay. Note the not so clever commercial for water filters. I clicked the report button already, so I'm sure someone will be along to take care of it shortly.

    EDIT: And Mika is here already. That's pretty effective. Except that the spam has been immortalized in jaychants message above mine. Maybe an edit jay?
    EDIT2: And meep-eep to the rescue. What an exciting day!


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: jaychant on May 04, 2009, 09:01:45 pm
    I didn't even notice any commercial. It must have been well hidden. Oh well...


    Title: Re: Chenjesu
    Post by: Krulle on November 12, 2021, 09:59:16 am
    I saw this thread, and it prompted me to exit lurker mode and post something again.

    I remembered that way back, someone drew up some art of the Chenjesu. I absolutely loved that. The topic was http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=3904.15

    Mind you, it is a very old topic, and people have come and gone between now and then. What I said in that topic though still reflects what I think of the Chenjesu; they might have integrated some tech from another race to make their crystalline bodies move around. They may have been fully crystalline and "rigid" in the past, the only movement of an entity  is that of "growing" into a place. Chenjesu ships may have taken them ages to grow in the past, but with gathered tech have allowed them to expand and grow more rapidly.

    So my opinion in short; gathered tech have made them more mobile, before that time, they moved by growing into place, their appearance being that of crystals.

    Feel free to ignore it though, I always love seeing your artwork...

    Hmm, spam bot quoting something from the thread much earlier, and pretending it's its own stuff.
    And adding a spam link.