The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The original in my opinion is the best one of the lot, tons of fun and easy to understand (plus it's abandonware). The second is a fun game, but it suffers from micromanagement hell syndrome and racial balance problems.

Elerians imo were one of the stacked races in that they could mentally dominate any planet if they brought a cruiser or higher class (something like that) to an undefended world without attacking it like any other race would (Space troop ground assault). In addition they could see where every race would start on the map.

The original suffers from AI players that can't figure out how to crack a series of missile bases underneath a planetary defense shield. Maybe if the AI knew it needed a ton of bombers to go on the offensive it would be truly flawless for its time. MoO 2 didn't have the same problem, but you are right that the second game turns into a huge micromanagement chore after a while.

I see. In MoO2 you have to build bases in a lightweight SimCity style right? MoO1 had the slider abstraction instead. (I've been watching some YouTube videos.) Did the second game have multiple planets per solar system too? I'm not sure what that would add except realism.

I played a lot of Utopia and K240 (http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/game/k240/) (aka Fragile Allegiance), and there was a shareware(?) game for the Amiga called Colonial Conquest (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/colonial_%20conquest_screens.gif) (2). K240 used asteroids instead planets, so a few abstraction problems disappeared. Each asteroid could be conveniently city-sized, and the distances between the asteroids allowed for reasonable fleet travel time without the use of FTL drives etc. The drawback is that asteroids are dead environments, so the playfield doesn't require much adaptation by the player. They did vary in placement, movement, size and mineral deposits though, and their surfaces had some cliffs where you couldn't build.

How do you guys feel about time control rather than turns? Turns are a bit abstract to me, so I prefer time control. I can think of two areas where turns are better than realtime: the player is presented with easy to grasp Boolean situations, and is given the ability to multitask without stressing around and missing little details. In time control games like Baldur's Gate and Mega lo Mania the player can slow or freeze time, making multitasking more feasible. Doesn't work well with multiplayer though. In MoO1 it seems like the ships moves (slides between source and destination) between the turns. Can they be interrupted by combat while this happens? If so, it's more like you get to pause to manage at certain set intervals.

MoO3 'doesn't exist'?

Sort of, in MoO2 you have a list of buildings what you want to make, then you pick them and your workers make it for you, which then graphically when done appears on the bottom. Then your citizens are separated into three rows, workers, farmers and scientists, which you divert them to the job rows. Eventually you can make robots to replace the human workers or use them as head-starters for planets that haven't been colonized fully. More terraforming/planet class level= more space for citizens. You had to also manage netwide food across your empire, something which MoO1 didn't have, which you build more freighters to carry the food and divert people to crop duty, etc..

MoO1 had a slider that simplified most functions to "defence", "industry", "ship", "research" just off the top of my head.

Second game had multiple planets in a system, which most asteroids and planets can be turned into outpost bases to deny your enemy to colonize it, and use it as a refueling station so you can travel further. Also asteroid belts could eventually be turned into new planets given tech to make artificial planets.


I usually can adapt to turn based or real time games, although I usually prefer real time more. Turn based allows me to think about decisions more on a managerial aspect but usually because of this they emphasise more focus in micromanagement which I dislike for the most part. Real time games also shouldn't be made so that they become "who can click faster and get their economies up faster than the computer". Games such as Imperium Galactica (a really fun game, you should look at it and its sequel Imperium Galactica 2) uses a real time flow system from slow, pause, and super fast so you can manage your empire and colonize worlds etc. Although it can be a bit frustrating when stuff happens and you aren't able to slow it down fast enough. Multiplayer was sort of dodgy with that game either way.

MoO1 combat is turn based, attacker gets the first turn I think or something, speed depends on the type of engines you fitted to your ship (and any other stuff). Once I had to scream cheese at the computer however when the enemy got "Warp Dissipators" (that's a special doohicky that coats your ship in green stuff that prevents you from moving (it decreases your engine speed by 1), plus these could shoot them halfway across the map so you literally can't do anything while you're getting shot at). MoO1 also had asteroids in the combat screen too (impassable objects). MoO1 had fleets that bunch up depending on their number then they first use their special powers (like Warp Dissipators), then the attack phase they add their shots of the first weapon on the list going down to the last (when you design a ship you have a list of weapons to choose from, although the game ignores any ground weapons/bio stuff against other ships in that combat phase). When the computer adds the shots, it calculates the damage each one does taking into account the current computer level of the ship and special abilities/devices to increase the damage (targetters, racial powers). The enemy that gets hit relies on the level of their engine, counter-special abilities, shields and armour to negate the damage that they get hit by. The result that's left is battle damage, if it exceeds the HP of a single ship, a number is removed from the stack and then it's carried over to the others. So if you had a fleet of two 100 HP ships, it comes to a total HP of 200, then if I was to have superior tech in every way and deal 300 damage at once, both ships would be lost, but if I managed to deal 130 damage using lower level weapons, one ship would be lost and the other would have 70 HP. Missiles would chase you across the map, and run out of fuel/energy per square depending on their level, and ECM Jammers decrease the damage the missiles do. Bioweapons and subatomics like Neutromium Bombs only come into play against planets, decreasing population (for bio weapons only) and industry every turn they are next to a planet and you give the attack order. It's a poor way of doing it, as sometimes if you want the industry intact with the bio weapons you have to drop the load in a combat screen, whereas in "orbital bombardment" on the megamap you'll toast what you want to keep.

MoO2 however had individual ships, the weapons were split into more several types (rather than MoO1 having single shot heavies and normal weapons, rapid firing blasters were their own weapons in their own right), so you had continuous type, long range type, hard shot type, heavy type, it was just confusing (missiles could be set to different quantities launched). In addition you could choose what angle they could fire at, more angle= more points spent. Most of the combat is the same, except ships could "warp core breach" at random if they took too much damage which sucked, because your battleship would randomly explode and damage the other ships if a lucky shot hit it (and if they're luckier, your ships will core breach and do a chain reaction, yay). You had to get through a bar of shields first, then attack the hull. Also it had leaders that add could benefits to the entire fleet, and marine strikes where you could capture ships then send it back to your own planets to reverse engineer them and get a random number of techs instantly (funny when you take an Antaran vessel which is nigh impossible then salvage their Particle Beam techs or something if you didn't take Orion).
MoO3? Whaaa? Oh that... Nope..

I saw some previews, and it looked like it stunk. Really bad. StarConNot 3 worse. They also amplified the micromanagement to insane levels if I recall a lot of people saying as well.

M00 2 is a fun game to play... m00 3 is horible nothing more to say about moo3 it just plain suck

Is "time control" an official name? Well anyway, I've never liked games that pause during the action. That's a problem with Knights of the Old Republic, but of course no one played that for the combat.

Thanks for the replies.

As always, I wouldn't mind scalability, macro control with micro control there as an option. I've heard good things about GalCiv2.

I just made up the term time control if that's what you're asking. Elite 2 Frontier had it. There was a warning system if something happened. Mega lo Mania would also pause or slow down time (optional) triggered by certain events.


Also, Poot. (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_lineup3.jpg)

Whoops, meant to say "shouldn't be made", my mistake. Edited.

Galactic Civilizations 2 is a fun game, although the combat is sort of lacking/basic (you got 3 types of weapons, Mass Drivers, Lasers and Missiles, which are cancelled out by Armour, Shields and Chaff. If you have a fleet the damage is spread out I assume).

Oh and the sliders of diversion are a bit hard to work out as well, you can move a slider that modifies itself when you want to research more into Social, Military or Research investment. Only problem is that it's for all your planets in your empire so diverting more into military means your research ones get left out in the cold.

Galactic Civilizations 2 is pretty decent, and probably the best such game since MOO2, but I find the pacing to be pretty poor. It seems to take forever before you get to do anything interesting, and sometimes you never get to do anything interesting... I once played a whole game where I never really got to fight anyone.

Was the Bulwrath supposed to look like a Pedobear?

As usual I am in awe of what you do, Arne.

Regarding technology, don't forget that in MoO1, the available technologies in your tech tree varied from game to game. There were a few, core technologies that you were guaranteed to get (like nuclear missiles, for example). But most everything else only had a 50% chance being available for research. (Psilons, I believe, had a higher percentage.)

Personally, I liked this better than the MoO2 alternative and I think it was beneficial in several ways. First, it added replay value in that no two games are alike, tech-wise. Second, you couldn't count on one particular tech for being your powerhouse for any given game. For example, if you relied on black hole generators to wipe out swarms of Klackon raiders, you might be screwed if have no backup plan. Lastly, I think it encouraged diplomacy and spying as alternate means to acquire that 'must-have' piece of technology.


The AI does build some pretty poor ships. It also sends in unescorted transports, which you can laugh at unless they are Bulrathi.  On higher difficulties, however, the AI usually packs in LOTS of biological weapons on its ships that will make short work of your colonies. (The AI doesn't seem to suffer any diplomatic penalty for using these either.  >:( )

I've played MoO1 on DosBox now. at first I didn't like it (cumbersome UI, confusing, abstracted TBS), but it grew on me as I worked out the quirks.

Replayability is important to me. I never quite liked games which brags about 20-40-70 hrs of gameplay. Many of my favourite games have lasted for decades.

Presenting the player with a new landscape (tech, geography, opposition) adds great replay value since the player will need to adapt each time. Another mechanic which I enjoy is when not all avenues can be explored because there's not enough resources. Then the player will have to choose what to concentrate on, average in several fields, or peak skill in a few. Perhaps it would be fun with a system where all inventions (names, stats) were random generated based on level?

Being able to see global trends (past, present, future projections) is important and I find MoO1 lacking here, perhaps because it's a TBS and rather old. You don't see a lot of info about the fleets on the map for example. I think a game should provide the player with a lot of info really fast (best way is visual, by color and size coding), but at the same time the player should be able to filter out and only see the necessary info.

I also find the tech'ing a bit too extreme, you start off as a retard, then pretty soon you're a god. It makes me reluctant to design new ships since I know they're gonna be old real soon. It's almost like buying a new computer. I don't mind tech going into the extremes though, in fact I like that aspect of the game. It's fun to see tactics change. I think it would be interesting if the tech'ing was a bit slower, and you could start in certain eras (early, mid, late), kind of like Star Trek ENT, TOS, TNG, etc.

Tech (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/tech_levels.jpg) design sheet from a design doc I'm writing...

...Onion shield?

The names are made up. I suppose an onion shield would have a layer mechanic... several weak shields or somesuch.

Poot II. (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_iteration2.jpg)

I think a real time + time control mechanic would be interesting, because you could do the following things:

* Real time, continuous. (works with MP, although I wouldn't want to write the network code.)
* Real time + time control, including pause.  (What I prefer.)
* Real time + pause at frequent intervals. (For TBS freaks, enables some form of hotseat MP, although it might be hard to keep track of many events occurring at the same time.)
* Real time + pause at infrequent intervals. (Play by mail MP, results in all sorts of psychological / prediction gameplay. Requires that the game can be somewhat autonomous (macro). Probably requires deterministic simulation / replay.)

NIce drawings, especially the Sakkra. Maybe have the Silicoid spy look more 'humanoid' as it will employ holofields, cloaking generators and such to remain unseen. The Bulrathi though look a bit odd though (the bulbous stomach). Maybe if they were bears given loads of muscle for the military types (like the MoO2 versions) whereas the more bulbous ones are more diplomacy (the vest it wears is the diplomat one so these Bulrathi types are ones that offer a sense of security?). The Alkari and Mrrshan look fine to me. The Meklars there remind me of wretched aliens that literally have to live in suits of armour to survive, perhaps they evolved on a world lacking predators but one that was harsh and resource rich thus evolution made them put more emphasis on industriousness? Perhaps as the global tech progresses, the Meklars gain different suits, so global tech level 1 would be normal pre-warp suits as they've always used them, yet when they advance to global tech level 2, the suits would be changed to different ones reflecting their cybernetic enhancement for better adaptation/combat/etc.

Likewise, perhaps Sakkra and other aliens also change in their appearance once they develop psionics, genetic modification or the like (or advancing global tech levels). Another idea could be having them relative to the "one shot" global racial modifications to a particular race like in Master of Orion 2 later on in the game allowing you to choose a new bonus to your species. Perhaps Meklars as an example could get a choice of better suits (after stuff like Powered Armour) offering new abilities which you can research later on which would count as a racial modification, such as they could become globally more interfacial with computers = more industry for the worker types, the soldier ones could become more resistant to ground combat/space bombardment, or spy versions have a better time hacking etc. Darloks on the otherhand might research a racial modification where their soldier kind might be an amalgamation of all species put together and their own technology combined as the Darloks use their shapeshifting recklessly to make the perfect soldiers.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably have to find a proper forum for this though. Civ Fanatics seem to be the most active.

In MoO1 you have different combat suits already. Different materials, weapons and force fields. I'm not sure how to reflect that in the art. Basically you have 2 places where the armour can be seen.

* Soldier giving a briefing on some weapon tech or something. Big image. Perhaps this is a ceremonial uniform?

* Small sprites of invading soldiers during planetary invasion ground combat.

I think there's 5-6 or so hull/Armour materials, that's a lot of designs to make for each 10 species.


I made the bears bulbous because I had already used the muscle/triangle torso for the Meklar. I still haven't used the square body shape though. I wanted to use that for the Sakkra but they reproduce so fast that I wanted to make them small to indicate that. Armour plating also indicates age as it takes time to harden :/ 

I did draw a square version of the Bulrathi, it's in the image directory (which is open if you cut to the /). Game design is up in the air. I'm not familiar with MoO2's system. I do how personalities play into how the AI behaves in MoO1. Having them morph physically (along with bonuses/weaknesses) could be fun, but it's quite bit of work if I'm to draw all the stuff...

Oh well, I'm off to clean up my lineup sheets.

Weapons were just hand pistols and rifles ranging from Pulse Rifles (they were called this in MoO2, no weapons development, I can only assume Pulse Rifles are like machineguns or something), Laser Pistols, Ion Rifles, Fusion Rifles, Hand Phasors and finally Plasma Rifles. Soldier Silicoids and such could have eye beams instead? ("training" for them means breeding Silicoids with weapons forming in their central eye areas as they're a material race. I assume the central eyes are really important in Silicoid culture as they're for communication, mood, maybe for reproduction? (they also eat materials in MoO2 to sustain themselves, maybe they "build" into their starships or grow into them aided by developed technology?)). Meklars could make use of built in weaponry like wrist blasters or something? Alkari and other humanoid races can easily be shown to use rifles and such the way we do, Bulrathi could be given bigger guns to lug into battle to better show their racial bonus.

The forcefields were only represented as personal shields so I imagine they'd be inside/built in the armour (seems the most logical way).
Yeah I'd think so as well, or a uniform for generals briefing you (the leader) on their victorious success and the technologies recovered/reverse engineered from the war campaign. Although the sprite uniform was the same as the big picture in MoO1 (implying they're soldiers giving you the details), it can be easily messed around with so that say, humans are represented as sprites in powered armour while the general guy remains on the big screen informing you in a different uniform. Other races could have their generals in ceremonial big armour like the Mrrshan as I always saw them as priding in their military, while the Klackon could have some sort of brainbug Queen and so on.

You might only need to do around 3 designs for each if you wanted, so you start off with Titanium, the next on the list would be Duralloy which can just be a recolour/minor change on the design, same with Zortrium. The next stage is Andrium, so you can mess around with the designs there, doing the same recolour/minor changes to represent Tritanium. Last but not least at the end you have Adamantium and Neutromium which are the best armours in the game, so you can mess around with that too.

Or you could cut it further to save drawing time by having 2 types of armour, one for the Titanium-Andrium, then the other design for Tritanium-Neutromium list.
I really did like the rough Bulrathi you did in the Sardaukar-esque armour ;) I think that type of style would fit them more as an unstoppable tough warrior race then have the Meklars using armoured suits (nothing too extreme for their regular soldiers, unless you want to do powered armour tech ones) or drones, like the floating cylinder spy which could be remote controlled or something to represent them.

Does anyone else think this thread should be split somewhere around the end of page 1?

Yeah there's a lot of possibilities to play around with custom armour and weapons, but ground combat isn't really a big part of the game. At least no when I'm playing, because just bomb everything to the ground, maybe sprinkle some death spores on top of that, if it's an annoying hotspot system. Doing different armours as small sprites wouldn't be as much work though.

I might have to bite the bullet and go square and bulky for the Bulrathi, maybe save the pear body type for one of my own races.

Consolidated (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_lineup4.jpg) and cleaned up (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/tech_levels.jpg)


Maybe split thread into... "MoO talk" or something, yeah. Sorry for derailing.

Wow dude, the drawings are awesome, I especially liked Mrrshans and Meklars in their exoskeletons (red). Also I think that the second sketch for Alkari (the ones with smaller heads) seem nicer than the current full version. I am too an eternal fan of MoO series (except #3), but must say that my game experience with the sequel (battle at antares) is like billion times greater (I've beaten the game on impossible more than 10 times) than with the MoO1 :P also, will you make the drawings of the races that debuted in MoO2? I really would like to see you draw Trilarians basic/power suit versions and Antarans as well ;D and will you do the (an)droids drawings? If you do, I think that they should look different for each race - because, for example, an aquatic race as Trilarians surely won't make them humanoid or something. Very, very nice work here, keep up 8)

Yes. Every time I see a new post here I keep hoping for another page of the comic, but it's always just more MoO stuff.

Consider it split.

Made some new stuff today.

Races linked to ships (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_race_ships.jpg) - I don't think the MoO1 races were linked to any special color (and thus ship style), but I wanted to try to do some matching. It might be possible to do team color tricks with the ships (some 'shader'), but I made them grey for now. Tried out a square Bulrathi and moved the bulbous shape to one of my own species. I'm not really familiar with the MoO2 species, but I think they look a bit dull with their more realistic style. MoO 1 had a lot of humans with animal heads though, but it was colorful and... tongue in cheek or whatever the expression is.

Ship design (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_ship_design.jpg) - easy to make if split in 3 sections... like 'folding man'. Then the ships keep the style of the race, but appear slightly different each time.

I'm not too keen on making the Silicoid humanoid, since there's already enough humanoid fable animals. I experimented with suction cups for feet for the Silicoid this time.

Yeah I agree.. the Darloks looked menacing in MoO1 like  a race influenced by X-Com Ethereals and Dr Who original Cybermen with a defining aspect about them, yet in MoO2 they just looked.. wrong. Same with the Alkari, they looked great as avians yet they were turned into pterodactyls. MoO2 species are good for some ideas, but I'd stick to the style you're doing with the MoO1 aliens because the way you're doing it imo works better and the originals were colourful and tongue in cheek.

The style of the ships also works well too, they do appear different whilst retaining their defined ship construction.

About the Silicoids, they're good because they're sort of a race that you can experiment with in different ways. Personally I always sort of imagined the original Silicoids like a race of crystalline material worms, but yet suction cups also works with them as well.

Cybermen? Are you talking about the news robot? The Darloks seem to be a classical 'Eyes shining under hood with the face dark' design. There's nothing seen of their face afaik. The classical Doctor Who Cybermen were bandaged guys in silver sprayed wetsuits (which bandyball halves tacked on) (and a headlight). I don't think the Tenth Planet survived, but the first version of the Cybermen was pretty different. they had an accordion or something on the chest.

I can't really hlep with any other part of this thread, but pulse rifles are probably something like this (http://props.steinschneider.com/pulser/prifle.htm), d.v.s advanced machineguns to blast slimy alien critters with.

Although I'm basing it from memory, I was thinking that the gloves the Darlok diplomat wears and the static animation of flashing lights electronics on the inside of the Darlok diplomat seemed like Earthshock Cyberman-ish, plus the collar armour bit, maybe that's just me. The "eyes shining under hood with face dark" however is what defines them (sort of like the X-Com Ethereals), as you never see their face and thats what gives them their mysterious coolness. The news robot reminds me of those old sci-fi robots.

Not familiar???...but Elerians are from MoO2, not MoO1, and I saw them on one of your pics line-up 4 I think it is. The two other playable races introduced in the sequel are Gnolams (dwarf-like master traders) and Trilarians (trans-dimensional amphibian travelers), not counting Antarans and Androids which you can only fight (first ones) and build at colonies (second ones). Don't get me wrong - I just wondered "where are the other 2 races?" when I saw Elerians and assumed you would add them later. I agree with you that the style of MoO1 is way more cool than in the sequel when it comes to racial design. And I must say it again - this concept are is pure gold, just keep on rockin' 8)

The first three episodes of The Tenth Planet have been released on VHS by BBC Video, but the last one is mostly missing (audio and a few video clips remain). But, yes, the Cybermen do carry accordions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:First_Cybermen.jpg).

By old cybermen I mean the latest old ones, not the oldest ones :P

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/oohum/images/cyber-earthshock.jpg

Sorry if it's a bad comparison, this version is what I thought of when I wrote those above, but only a bit. The collar vest reminds me of the Darloks sort of (although the Darloks use cloth), as well as the gloves to some extent. The electronic/flashing lights from the exposed chest of the Darlok makes the Darlok seem more cybery, which is where I drew up the comparison a bit, or it probably impiies the viewscreen is having trouble seeing a Darlok for what they really are, shapeshifters. Then the overall species look is that akin to an X-Com hooded Ethereal.

I drew a Hybrid cyberman (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/doctorwho/cyber_redesign.jpg) a while ago, a mix of old and new.

I'm getting more of a Final Fantasy mage vibe from the Darloks. I think He-Man had a little mage like that too. Then there's the zelda Wizrobes of course. And the Magicians from Tower of Druaga.

Yeah I'm not familiar with the MoO2 races as I am with the ones from the first game now. I've just seen a bunch of pictures from MoO2 and it doesn't give the same experience as seeing them acting ingame. I just threw in the elerian cuz they're babes, and all MoO1 has in that department is furries, yuck!

Androids are a race? I've never seen any Antarian or Android images. I've been using this MoO races page (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/ezixl/picture/moo2race.html#Elerian) for reference.

I think you can see the weapons in the research view in MoO1. There's a categorical blueprint at least. There's one for hand lasers and some kind of rifle. I'd try to rip/dump the bitmaps from the lbx archive if I had time. Someone wrote a gfx extractor for MoO2. I think the gfx is in lbx archive and in a custom RLE format.

Some random Silicoid sketches. (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_silicoid_sketches.jpg) The news robot is probably a robot, because they can be neutral, although, it doesn't seem too happy about the prospect of living under the rule of a ruthless tyrant.

Menu (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_menu.jpg) mockups (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_race_selection.jpg). MoO1 has the classic Starbase + Planet layout. I think I've seen in in a couple of other games too. I've got a bad tangent on the big ship, beam and planet curve, need to tilt stuff...

While I love your drawings Arne, I feel compelled to ask; do they ever lead anywhere? I mean, you've been posting mock-up screens for different games you are thinking of doing for quite a while. Have any of these concepts translated into a game of some sort? I love your art style and I'd love to try any game you've been involved in, but are there any such games out there?

First off, I love the drawings! The selection screen with the human emperor highlighted looks really accurate to the original MoO and the nice little pictures showing off the races offers more, as if you've captured the feel the original had. The news robot is also very accurate to the original, which is good :P

Yeah they usually fit the Darloks, to me when I see them I think of Stargate's Anubis, a cold and manipulative race, maybe their cloaky look is made to inspire fear in other races to repulse them (as they're hated by everyone save for the Humans? Although it could be interesting to portray a Human/Darlok conversation as they'd talk casually without any problems with each other).


I don't know about the Androids either, maybe he meant the news robot..? apart from that there wasn't any Androids in the game as far as I can remember (unless he means the minor MoO2 planetary governors?). There was an AI Orion Guardian in both games, which is a supership armed to the teeth which guards the Orion system, attacking anyone who enters the system. Destroying the Guardian yields the Death Ray and Black Hole Generator technologies, and a few extra goodies in MoO2 (I can't remember the exact techs). Orion also confers a major research bonus for whoever controls it as it's the "city of the ancients" and loaded with artifacts, and when other races vote for you at the galactic senate they'll tend to side with the one who controls Orion. Also in MoO2, if you take Orion, the last Orion who was in stasis on the planet and his supership will side with you.

Antarans on the otherhand were in MoO2 as an evil "precursor race" that every now and then they'd invade your worlds (they gloat in your face before they do though). They'd enter the galaxy and waste a colony to nothingness with their weapons ranging from end-game Xenotromium Armour, Particle Beams and some other gadgets they use on their ships just to prove a point that your an inferior race, and are xenocidal for unknown reasons. The early raiding parties range from small frigates which take a lot of firepower to beat them, then later on they get their big battleships into play which are sort of unstoppable unless you've got late game tech and enough ships. If you lose an Antaran space battle, they'll annihilate everything on the planet they invade, then disappear without a trace. This excerpt from the manual I found here explains the history behind the Antarans and the Orions:

http://thelastorion.blogspot.com/2006/09/orions-and-antarans.html

Orions were sort of like a human ancient precursor race who had a huge war with the Antarans, both sides occupying the galaxy. The war ended with the Antarans being pushed to an alternate dimentional pocket universe and keeping them there supposedly for eternity, but the Orions disappeared mysteriously without a trace leaving the Guardian behind to guard their ancient city. The lesser races evolve, rise, and then when MoO2 comes the Antarans finally break free to pose a big threat to the galaxy.

Another way to win the game in MoO2 is to invade the Antaran pocket universe via a Dimensional Portal and lay waste to their homeworld using your fleet. If you win the space battle (expect to be facing tons of endgame battleships, frigates, cruisers and a star fortress with a special leader onboard) you glass the Antarans and thus you prove that you're the most powerful force in the galaxy, and you've ended the galaxy-wide Antaran threat, so the other races secede to you. If a race has the Extra-Dimentional trait, I think they can invade the Antarans without the need of a Portal.

MoO3 retcons the last game saying you only destroyed "an outpost" what you thought was their homeworld, and then the Antarans came back and conquered the galaxy after seeing what a threat the lesser races became. Then they ruled for a long time, messed around with the old races and made a bunch of new races before a faction of Antarans got fed up with the main species saying they were the "new Orions" and had a civil war with them. But.. MoO3 wasn't taken too well, so this continuity could be ignored.

The Antarans look like this, on the cover of the box art, and there's some more in MoO2 of full body shots and in-game ships but alas I don't have the game on me.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Moo2baa.jpg)

(http://www.spheriumnorth.com/blog-images/officers/officer87.jpg)
This guy is Xyphys the Antaran Warrior, who pilots the Antaran Star Fortress. He has a bunch of global benefits he confers to his fleet.

And the only portrait of an Orion in a MoO game is Loknar, the Last Orion:
(http://www.spheriumnorth.com/blog-images/officers/officer86.jpg)
He's onboard the supership gained from Orion when you defeat the Guardian, and he gives a load of fleet benefits.

His and Xyphys' stats and the portraits/stats of many other minor race governors/leaders in MoO2 can be found here: http://lordbrazen.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html


The only difficulty I reckon is the MoO1 images, there's literally tons of technology drawings yet I doubt it's ever been ripped via a program because it's an old game.. unless you want us to print screen some research screens when some of us play MoO1 again? :P

Ahhh...it's nice to see when Antarans are conquering threads 8) Nice post there Elerium.

When I said androids, I was referring to 3 techs (in MoO2) in computers branch/cybernetics - the Android Farmers, Workers and Scientists. When you research it you can artificially build-up population on your colonies rather than waiting for it to grow "naturally". The droids also added bonuses to the jobs they were assigned to but you couldn't shift them to any other job (farmers - farming only etc.) or transport them to any other colony. There are no pics of them in the game (except for the news/event bot); but I was thinking -  if you are already set on making an MoO-like game will there be droids in them?and seeing how much diversity are you preparing in the ships/techs/races department, I just wondered are they going to be all the same, or race specific?because, personally, I always disliked the idea that alien races that were completely different from humans (like for example Silicoids or Darloks) utilized the same ol' two-legs  two-arms two-eyes bots. I always imagined that robots made by extraterrestrials would be at least as much extraterrestrial as their creators.This is just sf/MoO geek speaking from me, but seeing you confused I had to explain myself. Sorr :P  :)

And really - are you set on making a game with MoO theme, or this is just random posting? *blink-blink*

Ohh those androids, I forgot about those :P. They had a sprite, but I can't remember how exactly they looked, but as you say, each race could make their own androids in their own likeness.

I tend to revision old licences. Atari owns this one (?), so it's a no-go... as are most of my stuff. At any rate I have severe focus problems and won't be able to finish anything.

Re: News robots. Perhaps these are a faction / race of information gatherers (who sell their broadcasts at a price). They could have fast cloaked scout ships, explaining how they are omniscient-ish. The quote "Another millennium under the rule of a ruthless tyrant" suggests that they are old, and thus possibly quite advanced.

As for androids, I think they could be redundant. Factories are already robotic, and you can level up reproduction with cloning and other mechanics already.

Re: Race specific tech, Yeah, I had that included on my tech level image. I want terrain to navigate and adapt to though. I think there are plenty of opportunities to offer varied terrain by for example use planets to deliver ancient artifacts / inspiration. That would feel more tangible.

Re: Antarans. I'm guessing time must go slow in their prison dimension, given how fast the player races level up. It could be a StarGate Replicator confinement situation. Orionites... I can't figure out if that's a helmet/mask they wear or if it's a 'funny forehead' human. Perhaps they were regenerated in a form familiar to the contemporary species.

Re: MoO graphic dumpage, it's unfortunate that you can't just scroll through the tech on the tech screen... or maybe you can? At any rate, the tech images aren't that useful because a lot of techs share the same image. I've ripped the blue and red ships so far, but I'm mostly just using their general architecture as a guide.


Menu (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_menu_bg.jpg) mockups (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_menu.jpg) updated (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/master_of_orion_race_selection.jpg) - A bot more true with orange buttons and a guardian, although I picked my own race because I happened to draw it, randomly. It's 'Greys'  (or Andorian) + female warrior race + Star Trek paraphrase ships. I might use them in case I decide to file off the serial number to get rid of various copyright/trademark restrictions.


I'll clean up my intro storyboard now. (edit, ended up spending time redrawing the face. I can spend ages on face fail.)

Here's my Project page (http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/gamedesign.htm). I don't have time to work more on it atm. I decided to approach the genre in my own way and come up with my own aliens, weapon system, etc.

Well this looks like a totally different game, but still seems to be pretty much awesome. Why even call the game MoO or place it in the same setting if you added so much fresh mightyfine shinystuff? ??? More than enough to create something totally new? Kinda spoils the feel a bit :P but keep rockin', me likes it and would very much want to playz it ;D

That's Arne's MO for you. He picks an old game, plans a way to enhance and completely overhaul it, draws some (or sometimes lots) of gorgeous art detailing his ideas, and then moves onto the next. ;)

While it's always a treat to read about his frequently great ideas, and admire his awesome artwork, expecting an actual product to come of it is unwise.

Personally, I find it to be a better system than if he started coding, released one promising tech demo, and then fell off the face of the planet like so many other similar projects. :)

Most of the time I try to stay faithful to the source materials with my various projects. When people look at the designs they should be able to recognize the most or all of the characters easily. I like basing my designs on existing licenses because of nostalgia and because of the problem solving fun that comes with... uh, extrapolations derived from existing data points. It's a challenge to look at all the designs in say, Rygar (http://androidarts.com/rygar/), then figure out what I can build with those pieces, while also expressing myself within the confines of a style that I like.

I occasionally get mails from coders who are interested working with me, and naturally I have to decline because we'd be C&D'ed anyways, not owning the appropriate license. So, with this MoO project I decided halfway through to just rant and pop a few of my own ideas, and then eventually change all of the 'fluff', including the aliens. This way I won't have to say no to the next coder who mails me. (So, yeah, I wouldn't call it MoO.)

Of course, I'd have to do all the art assets still, and that's probably at least 6 months of work. In theory I could do most of it without having an engine at all. It's mostly just stills, like the original MoO. I think a lot can be done to animate the universe just by placing pieces of art wisely (avoiding 'Excel in space'). One day I want to try to finish most art assets for a project in advance. I think there's no shortage of coders who are willing to invest time into a project which has most of the assets done.