The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Cedric6014 on January 14, 2009, 11:18:59 pm



Title: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 14, 2009, 11:18:59 pm
I’d like to know what kind of game should be made. A brand new one or a mod of the original? Please vote and post your thoughts/opinions

New Game
Pros: Bringing graphics to the 21st Century. A fresh approach all round.
Cons: a lot more work (potentially), losing the feel of the original game

Mod
Pros: Bringing back the nostalgia. Everything we liked about SC2, just with new problems to solve and aliens to meet
Cons: old-school graphics, same old same old game play

Other
Not sure about this. Is it possible to have a mod with updated graphics?

Also, HOW can it be made? How feasible is it to make a brand new game from scratch? What will be the major technical challenges?









Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: Elvish Pillager on January 14, 2009, 11:24:12 pm
Other. The same graphics, but rewrite the engine.

Reason: New graphics is a lot of extra work and probably loses some of the flavor of the original. On the other hand, it would probably be easier to rewrite most of the code than to alter the current code to do everything we want in a universe-sized project.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 14, 2009, 11:26:00 pm
I voted mod because:

a)   what I most desire is to rediscover the magic of SC2 in a new story.
b)   I understand that a mod approach will take a lot less time, although I’m happy to be advised otherwise. I think time is important. We don’t want this project to die because its taking 10 years.

Over all I suspect is the way to get the most with the least effort


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: jaychant on January 14, 2009, 11:30:19 pm
I say mod.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: Shiver on January 14, 2009, 11:51:39 pm
I'd like a brand new engine to be quite honest. It's 2009. We need better visual and audio quality. And more than 16 stupid firing angles.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: Tim on January 15, 2009, 12:54:53 am
I think I'd prefer a new engine for a new Star Control project. Updated graphics, updated interface, etc. I can see why someone would want to work with it just as a mod, since the coding is likely familiar to a lot of people, but it's been done before.

Though, if a mod sequel turns out like any of the fanmade Fallout sequels, I would be okay with that too. I'm willing to bet the Star Control community could actually finish it's sequels though. It's likely not as sloppy as the Fallout coding and engine actually is. Isometric RPGs, whoo.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – mod or new game?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 15, 2009, 01:06:23 am
I think if I could change my vote I would - to "other/hybrid". My vote for mod was based on the assumption that it would be a lot less time consuming.

It makes sense to make a game for the 21st century where practicable. Really its all down to what's feasible, sensible and achievable. If people hvae the desire and enthusiasm to make something with new code and new graphics in a reasonable timeframe then why not



Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 15, 2009, 10:26:24 am
I've revised the scope of this thread to be more open about addressing the technical challenges of a new game.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Lachie Dazdarian on January 16, 2009, 12:19:50 am
I would say a brand new game for multiple reasons. Flexibility being the first. Also, I really think SC2 Melee got a bit outdated. We need something more smooth.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: countchocula86 on January 16, 2009, 12:56:31 am
I think a whole new game would be good because it would update the game and potentially make it more palatable for a new audience.

However a fanmade game, aimed at current fans, could do very well as a mod.  So ultimatly Id prefer a mod, because it could be made much faster, and retain that retro quality I love.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Terrell on January 16, 2009, 01:00:58 am
In my opinion, the basics should be the same as SC2.  Anyone who knows how to play SC2 should be able to play the sequel easily without having to learn much as far as basic controls go.

We should have a much larger portion of the galaxy, that includes all the area in SC2 plus at least 1/2 of the quadrants that would be adjacent to ours.  There should be on one side some worlds that were enslaved by the Kzer-Za (both battle-thralls and fallow slaves), and on the other side other races that met the fate of the Burvixese and the Gg (the Gg's homeworld should probably be in the new game), but there should be races that the Ur-Quan fleets did not detect in both quadrants.

All the races that were in SC2 should be available in the sequel, but the Ilwrath and Thraddash should be in bad shape.   Maybe some time should have elapsed enough for them to at least partially recover. but they should be significantly weaker in terms of fleet size than in SC2.

There should also be new things to do, new plots and subplots necessary to win.  One idea I liked from SCnot3 was the ability to find Precursor artifacts that could improve ships.  Perhaps in the new one, there should be such artifacts, but they shouldn't be so strong that they make the ships unbeatable.  

As an example one could find an artifact that takes the Earthling Crusier from near the bottom of the pile in terms of speed and accelleration, and puts it somewhere in the middle of the pack.  Artifacts would be specific to a ship design, and give a specific effect but only to that type of ship.  Each ship can have only 1 artifact's effect.

If you for example find 2 artifacts, one that will increase a Crusier's speed, another that would increase it's battery, and therefore it's firepower, you can pick one to use.  You can use it on your current Crusiers, and make all future Crusiers be able to use this artifact, but by using it, you cannot use the other one without cancelling out the first one.  (or maybe you can have 2 types of Crusiers, one with the effects of one artifact, the other type with the effects of the other artifact.  

Artifacts should marginally to moderately improve a ship's overall capacities.  Each type of ship should have at least 2 types of improvement artifacts, but no artifact should make a ship overpowering.  

Melee mode should have the option to pick an availabe artifact for each ship in your team, and should include all the ships from SC and SC2.  (maybe SC3 but some mention that many of the ships in that game need major fixes, I don't know how practical that would be)

Make a Precursor vessel that is comparable to the one in SC2.  After all a ship built by the Precursors, and fully equipped for combat, should be more powerful than any other ship in space in 1 on 1 combat.  (it would probably still be beatable by the Utwig Jugger).

For combat, make sure that ships like the Kohr-Ah (and any other black but uncloaked ships) a little easier to see.  Sometimes it's rather hard to see the black blades on black space to avoid them.  Could just be my bad eyesight.

I got the while you were typing a new post was made warning, so I hope I didn't repeat someone else's idea.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 17, 2009, 12:58:42 am
Who are we doing this for? For us or for a newer audience?

If we're doing this for a newer audience then a mod of the old game (with its obsolete graphics) won't cut it, so a brand new game is required. This is what Timewarp is/was

If we are doing this for our own self indulgence then maybe a mod is better. Clearly we are nostalgia junkies otherwise we wouldn't be here. This is what Nicholai's mod is/was

This kind of thing has been attempted with all the best intentions on numerous occasions before.

TimeWarp was a huge profect that a LOT of creative energies went into. it seems bizarre that nothing came of it. Or are they just on hiatus?

After having a good look through the TimeWarp forum (which i hadn't even seen before), and also re-reading

Who knows what's happened to Nicholai. He had quite a few forum members helping him out with art and voice contributions. Can anyone out there tell me if they've had any contact with him recently? Valaggar was goind a lot of stuff there, a pity veryone was so mean to him. We might know what was going on.

Really I dont care who does it and how its done, I just want something to be done.




Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Lukipela on January 17, 2009, 08:41:11 pm
I'd vote brand new game, even though that is resource intensive.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Tim on January 18, 2009, 07:03:33 am
Who are we doing this for? For us or for a newer audience?

If we're doing this for a newer audience then a mod of the old game (with its obsolete graphics) won't cut it, so a brand new game is required. This is what Timewarp is/was

If we are doing this for our own self indulgence then maybe a mod is better. Clearly we are nostalgia junkies otherwise we wouldn't be here. This is what Nicholai's mod is/was

This kind of thing has been attempted with all the best intentions on numerous occasions before.

TimeWarp was a huge profect that a LOT of creative energies went into. it seems bizarre that nothing came of it. Or are they just on hiatus?

After having a good look through the TimeWarp forum (which i hadn't even seen before), and also re-reading

Who knows what's happened to Nicholai. He had quite a few forum members helping him out with art and voice contributions. Can anyone out there tell me if they've had any contact with him recently? Valaggar was goind a lot of stuff there, a pity veryone was so mean to him. We might know what was going on.

Really I dont care who does it and how its done, I just want something to be done.
I find it sort of funny that TimeWarp is constantly brought up, when I was involved in the original design of it. I worked with the project for a while, and we were developing a story, I thought. I was working on a few sprites - and just nothing ever really happened with it. I lost interest when I stopped understanding what was going on with the project, and while they created a release, I was still never quite sure what the point of what they were doing was. In my opinion, the failure of TimeWarp was just too many people with too many ideas, and they constantly strayed away from ideas that would have worked. But, what do I know, I was in 6th or 7th grade at the time.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 18, 2009, 07:27:33 am
I think Timewarp is very relevent. Having just now started trawling through the threads in the forum I'm only now starting to understand the project. All the best intentions, but way too many ideas and no one person to wade through them and see it through.

I think a forum to collect ideas and contributions was sensible. Probably just needed a core team of 6 or so to maek the hard decisions and move the project on. Or maybe they had that and the just lost enthusiasm?

Seems a shame to waste all that work. Can's someone just pick up where they left off?

And can someone tell me what aspects of Timewarp were universally agreed up on as cool (plot, graphics, game play, aliens etc)?
 
As far as what I think I want to do....I think a mod might be a smarter idea for now. Making a brand new sequel from scratch that lives up to everyone's expections is very ambitious.

I'll do as advised and get something done myself. This will include plot layout, new map, and script for the first parts of the adventure. From there on in, I'll need help.






Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Data on January 18, 2009, 04:10:53 pm
Wow. This topic (and the SC remake one) got me to post after a long time. And also replay UQM (not that I played it that many times as people on this forum)
Now, I would be glad to help, but I have a lot of going on so I don't have a lot of time and I have short attention span with these projects, I get all started up and then forget about it  :'(
Anyway, I do have couple of ideas. Firstly, a lot of people have started to make some sort of a sequel and always start with Melee. I propose that you make a simpler game for a start, some sort of strategy, but with the storyline and races form SC2 universe. It seems to me that would be a lot easier to program for start.
I also had this idea to remake SC2 as a strategy since it never made sense to me that:
a) There were no ships to protect starbase from Ur-Quan and other eneies
b) You could only recruit at your starbase even though there were 2 others, not to mention homeworlds of your allies.

But that's just me. Anyway, someone should really step up and become the leader, or at least make some sort of core team, and then after that make some decisions what should be made, start with something concrete. I'm sure there are a lot of good ideas floating around, but someone needs to find them and combine them all.

That's just my 2 cents, tho.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on January 18, 2009, 06:09:30 pm
I guess my vote would be to see a brand new engine as well.  The problem I'm having with the whole idea in general is that the fans would decide how the game progresses and ends. I'm not sure how fun it would actually be once it's finished. After fishing out all the bugs and writing the entire story, where is the Star Control fun? It would be like playing a different version of SC2 where you know exactly what's going to happen.  The best part of SC2 for me was being unaware of what was going on around me until I explored and found out for myself.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Data on January 18, 2009, 10:33:52 pm
Dammit, now you got me thinking about the sequel  ;D
Anyway, I think there should be three major parts of the game:
story, main gameplay, battle. I suggest that you focus on one (perhaps main gameplay), and use some quick fixes for the other 2 in earlier versions (for example some sort of quick matchup whou would win in ship combat for starters then develop it from here)
Again, that's just me...


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Zathri on January 20, 2009, 04:40:44 am
I don't think that a MOD would be marketable.  You would have to go casual gaming and disappoint those who love the series or go all out full fledged storyline, RPG with action (tactical) space combat.  I think it's the storyline that people remember about this game the most.  Besides, the Star Control universe is perfect for a MMO.  Although I am not a fan of them, and the chances of it financially succeeding are slim, it has potential.

I think what the franchise needs is to feel that you are part of the universe.  That there are things within your control, but also events that are not.  You would also want to be able to feel what it would be like to pilot each ship or command them from the bridge of a powerful precursor vessel.  Again, emphasizing tactical combat over real time.

Of course there would be classic melee 2-D style as well.

Anyway, I think that the way games are headed, co-operative play is a must.  So 4 friends coming together, commanding large space battles while also being able to go off on their own missions might be successful. 

Not sure, space genre / sim is pretty stale these days.  Last few projects were cancelled or flopped.  Anything would be a tough sell.

Someday perhaps.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Lachie Dazdarian on January 20, 2009, 06:54:54 am
Well, no offense, but MMO suck. MMO is the opposite of a story-driven game, and SC was all about that.

And why are you talking about market here? Fan made Star Control sequel has to be freeware. Or did I miss something here?


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Elvish Pillager on January 20, 2009, 12:14:32 pm
I think we technically could could sell it, as long as we didn't use any of the same game content. It seems like a stupid idea though.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Lukipela on January 20, 2009, 06:31:32 pm
Well, no offense, but MMO suck. MMO is the opposite of a story-driven game, and SC was all about that.

If your going to insult his taste in games, why bother to preface it with "no offense"? Seems a bit pointless..

Quote
And why are you talking about market here? Fan made Star Control sequel has to be freeware. Or did I miss something here?

I think he is talking about an actual sequel made by a commercial company. or it's some sort of high level theory assuming we both get TFB's permission to use their characters for commercial use and manage to write a MMO and host it. Not to mention marketing it.

Since we're steering off course, I'd love a SC adventure game, monke island style.


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Dragon on January 20, 2009, 07:12:50 pm
I'd love a SC adventure game, monkey island style.
Got my vote! ;D


Title: Re: Fan made Star Control sequel – how should it be made?
Post by: Lukipela on January 20, 2009, 08:01:30 pm
Got my vote! ;D

I seriously wish I could find a programmer and an artist for a project like this. I think it could be absolutely and awesomely great. But alas, I'm in the same place as Cedric. No viable skills, just ideas. And those are pretty cheap. Actually, I'm even worse off because my brother can't program.