The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Café => Topic started by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 03:07:00 am



Title: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 03:07:00 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism)

Sadism is gratification from the infliction of pain or humiliation on another person. Masochism is gratification from receiving the infliction of pain or humiliation. People who are sadistic are often also masochistic.

What is your stance on this? (You can't see the results until you vote.)

Before you ask, I'm curious to know if I'm right to think that people associate sadism with evil. I wanted to put this on another forum I'm a part of (which has more people in it ;) ), but they don't have an off-topic category, and I couldn't find a category where this seems to fit.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Yetiers on May 01, 2009, 07:56:49 am
I might be misinterpreting you, but you don't seem to have much of an idea what sadomasochism actually is. I'm not really sure on this, I think there might exist a disorder that makes you like inflicting pain/humiliation on other persons in a non-sexual context, but I don't know much about that and don't think you want us to talk about that (it's not like it's the only disorder that makes you harm others). No one would associate a disorder with being evil, anyway.

As for the more-often-encountered form of sadomasochism, the sexual form (which requires having your appetite roused by the person you're doing it with), which is the one you're probably talking about, well that's not evil. Masochism is just another way of having fun without hurting anyone, and sadists don't really feel good inflicting their sadism on non-masochistic individuals (who don't get aroused, and thus the sadist feels pity instead of arousal emit certain pheromones that signal their masochism).

EDIT: Of course, even sexual sadists might hurt someone if their limits are high enough. Normally they'd be able to stop themselves, but then they might not resist the temptation. That, and if you're really, really sexually frustrated you can actually enter a "sadistic trance" if your sadistic appetite is roused by a situation. Like that time when I brought a knife to school (intending only to scare one of the teachers with it -- of course I shouldn't have brought the knife, but it was an immaturity thing due to my social anxiety, I actually thought she'd forgive me if I just waved the knife a little while sitting at my desk, and then put it back in my bag, and she might actually have forgiven me for that, the way I know her, if I had done only that). One of the girls I like was sitting behind me, and I couldn't manage to stop dominating her (I actually even cut her with the knife and enjoyed it, though that turned out to be above her limits). I attempted to start dominating other girls in the class as well (only those I liked though), but stopped at once doing it to those that didn't enjoy it (yeah, the one sitting behind me was masochistic too, and it was only then that she found out). I even dominated a girl I didn't physically like, but who roused me because she was masochistic too (well she was an alternating switch, but she was in a masochistic mood at the time).

There is such a thing as a masochistic trance as well, and it's more similar to being hypnotized. I underwent that as well, being a switch myself -- I was in such a submissive state that I even almost threw myself out through the window when I misinterpreted a command I received (I mean I misinterpreted it to mean "throw yourself through the window"). But I digress.

And I'm a masochist, not a switch. And switches always alternate, they can't be both sadistic and masochistic at the same time.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 12:08:03 pm
I might be misinterpreting you, but you don't seem to have much of an idea what sadomasochism actually is. I'm not really sure on this, I think there might exist a disorder that makes you like inflicting pain/humiliation on other persons in a non-sexual context, but I don't know much about that and don't think you want us to talk about that (it's not like it's the only disorder that makes you harm others). No one would associate a disorder with being evil, anyway.

As for the more-often-encountered form of sadomasochism, the sexual form (which requires having your appetite roused by the person you're doing it with), which is the one you're probably talking about, well that's not evil. Masochism is just another way of having fun without hurting anyone, and sadists don't really feel good inflicting their sadism on non-masochistic individuals (who don't emit certain pheromones that signal their masochism).

EDIT: Of course, even sexual sadists might hurt someone if their limits are high enough. Normally they'd be able to stop themselves, but then they might not resist the temptation. That, and if you're really, really sexually frustrated you can actually enter a "sadistic trance" if your sadistic appetite is roused by a situation. Like that time when I brought a knife to school (intending only to scare one of the teachers with it -- of course I shouldn't have brought the knife, but it was an immaturity thing due to my social anxiety, I actually thought she'd forgive me if I just waved the knife a little while sitting at my desk, and then put it back in my bag, and she might actually have forgiven me for that, the way I know her, if I had done only that). One of the girls I like was sitting behind me, and I couldn't manage to stop dominating her (I actually even cut her with the knife and enjoyed it, though that turned out to be above her limits). I attempted to start dominating other girls in the class as well (only those I liked though), but stopped at once doing it to those that didn't enjoy it (yeah, the one sitting behind me was masochistic too, and it was only then that she found out). I even dominated a girl I didn't physically like, but who roused me because she was masochistic too (well she was an alternating switch, but she was in a masochistic mood at the time).

There is such a thing as a masochistic trance as well, and it's more similar to being hypnotized. I underwent that as well, being a switch myself -- I was in such a submissive state that I even almost threw myself out through the window when I misinterpreted a command I received (I mean I misinterpreted it to mean "throw yourself through the window"). But I digress.

I agree with everything you said 100%. Personally I don't think it's evil at all, I just was curious as to the general public thoughts of the practices.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Lukipela on May 01, 2009, 04:33:22 pm
I don't care what people do in their spare time, as long as it's consentual and doesn't hurt uninvolved parties.

Personally I don't think it's evil at all (actually, I would say I'm a masochist, so how could I?), I just was curious as to the general public thoughts of the practice (it's not really a practice (the practice is BDSM), but I can't think of a better word).

This is more than I wanted to know.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 09:04:57 pm
[edited post]

Is that better?


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Lukipela on May 01, 2009, 09:08:19 pm
Er, I already know so I don't think it helps. Kudos for trying though. I was making a joke, don't worry about it.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 09:10:45 pm
So to clarify, you didn't actually find anything I said offensive or distasteful in any way? If I'm wrong, can you please tell me what was offensive or distasteful?


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Lukipela on May 01, 2009, 09:37:09 pm
Man, you really need to have things spelled out to you at times, don't you :) I didn't find what you said offensive or distasteful. I'm not very interested in learning about the sexual quirks of a random member of an on-line forum and because of that I made a comment. That doesn't mean you can't share and I suppose that while it was meant to be humorous it could be interpreted as hostile. Sorry for the confusion, and carry on.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 01, 2009, 09:40:01 pm
Man, you really need to have things spelled out to you at times, don't you :)

Yeah, it's sort of a habit. I almost always ask for clarification for anything that matters (i.e. whether I offended someone).


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Defender on May 02, 2009, 01:32:37 am
Whip it...Whip it good.

~DEVO

;D


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Resh Aleph on May 02, 2009, 01:38:41 pm
Shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather
Whiplash girlchild in the dark
Comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him
Strike dear mistress, and cure his heart.

~The Velvet Underground, 1966

8)


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Death 999 on May 08, 2009, 06:07:44 pm
Sadism, practiced in the wild on anyone and everyone, is extremely bad.

Channeled into a safe and consensual arrangement, it's neutral. Usually, the consent would derive from the partner being a masochist, but I can imagine outright compensation being sufficient.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Yetiers on May 18, 2009, 11:41:58 am
Just to make things clear, I was wrong when I said I'm a switch, and I also have to mention that there's no such thing as a sadistic/masochistic trance. I am a masochist however, at least that is true. Lemme explain...

FROM A MAIL SENT TO LUKIPELA:
Quote
Quote
Hey, where did you go? BEL and Adventures really miss you....
 
Luki

I've been at the hospital. I had a neuro-psychiatric disorder involving a chemical imbalance between something called "chemical mediators" or some such, and I had an acute psychotic episode due to this (the disorder was making me very susceptible to suggestions from other people, and even from myself). Combined with Asperger (the lack of social cognition implied by Asperger, with which I've also been recently diagnosed), I think this was the cause for which I was so antisocial on the forums a while ago (people were saying I'm an obnoxious poster, so I actually started acting like one).

Unfortunately, one of the false ideas caused by the chemical imbalance I was talking about earlier is that I'm interested in posting on the SCDB or on the UQMF, so you won't hear anymore from me. Sorry.

P.S. Regarding the sadomasochism thread, the information I gave in that post (the things about the sadistic trance and such) was also false and caused by this chemical imbalance.

Fare thee well,
[NAME OBSCURED TO MORTALS].

Confused? I'm Valaggar! That's what I meant when I wrote about how antisocial I was on these forums some time ago. Farewell to all of you now... I eagerly expect TFB's new game, and a sequel to Star Control, but I don't think I want to post here anymore.

Oh, and let me cross out the false things in my former post in this thread. I'll keep the true things though.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Son_of_Antares on May 18, 2009, 02:13:09 pm
Yeti, Yeti - Valaggar!? :o That sly rascal :) Who would have thought...You indeed became a trademark of UQM, sir. It sucks that you're leaving again, but hey, it's a matter of free will, isn't it? :P I wish you best of luck and that you get your "chems back to baance" Valaggar Yetiers, you were a good role-player and comrade ;D

 And Luki was right from the beginning, as always  8) ***

And for the topic - I personally don't think that sado-maso quirks that some persons have are necessarily evil. But anything that gets someone in a danger of willing physical hurt (or in some cases mortal danger) can't be considered good either. I don't like either sadism or masochism. The world is miserable as it is without any need to make it more so by ourselves.

EDIT: ***Clarification: Some time after Yetiers appeared on UQM forums, Luki stated in one of his posts (which I'm unable currently to find link for) that he thought Yeti was Valaggar. Props.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Cedric6014 on May 18, 2009, 10:48:33 pm
Confused? I'm Valaggar! That's what I meant when I wrote about how antisocial I was on these forums some time ago. Farewell to all of you now... I eagerly expect TFB's new game, and a sequel to Star Control, but I don't think I want to post here anymore.

Oh, and let me cross out the false things in my former post in this thread. I'll keep the true things though.

Oh come on, you know you want to stick around with your buddies!  You can just ignore the mean people.

And the way I see it, if you like the internet, and you like star control, it is inevitbale that we'll see you back here again - if only under another pseudonym.

I say stay on as Valaggar - like the good old days. Might as well.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Lukipela on May 19, 2009, 03:54:10 pm
And Luki was right from the beginning, as always  8)

I think this is what everyone should be taking away from this topic. You've all learned a valuable lesson today.  :P


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: UAF on May 27, 2009, 01:27:29 am
So the poll is about the sexual habit, or the mental disorder that get people hurt badly against their will?

Because I'm find with badly hurting people against their will, but I'm against consensual sexual activities that are not the most basic form of intercourse and are aimed for procreation.





And for those who don't get it when I'm joking (there are always a few of those around) - I'm fine with people doing whatever they want with eachother as long as both parties want it and no one ends in the hospital.
I'm against harming people against their will. Or even harming people when they do want it (and I mean injury causing, not some hot candle wax games that they enjoy).

So right now I still don't know how to vote. Need clarification,


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 27, 2009, 03:35:15 am
So the poll is about the sexual habit, or the mental disorder that get people hurt badly against their will?

Because I'm find with badly hurting people against their will, but I'm against consensual sexual activities that are not the most basic form of intercourse and are aimed for procreation.





And for those who don't get it when I'm joking (there are always a few of those around) - I'm fine with people doing whatever they want with eachother as long as both parties want it and no one ends in the hospital.
I'm against harming people against their will. Or even harming people when they do want it (and I mean injury causing, not some hot candle wax games that they enjoy).

So right now I still don't know how to vote. Need clarification,

Since I said sadomasochism and not just sadism, I meant the sexual one.

You know, I once stumbled across a funny person who thought he was sadistic. He said something along the lines of:

"I'm sadistic. So why am I sadistic? It's easy! People abuse me alot! So I just want to see people suffer, because I hate them! That's why I hurt people!"

That isn't sadism. What he described (and I might have not replicated it well, because I read it weeks ago) was something that sounded more like a hatred of people than a satisfaction on the infliction of pain on others. The one thing that I liked was commenters were ridiculing the clueless guy's words, though they didn't exactly understand either, saying stuff like, "If ur sadistic u should enjoy being abused! All of them r like that!" That particular person was talking about the link of sadism to masochism and in a sense is right, except that masochists don't generally like it if they are truly abused, raped, etc because they are no longer in control. This might seem like a paradox, but it's how it works. In BDSM, while the masochist (submissive) is succumbing to the sadist (dominant), the submissive was able to make the choice to do it, rather than being forced into it. Now I should stop ranting, before my paragraph starts getting into too many different topics at once. Point is, I don't think people fully understand what sadomasochism is.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: UAF on May 27, 2009, 08:01:18 pm
The poll's first option says "sadistic people" which was a bit confusing.
Anyway I voted now (second option).

As for what you said. I think people sometimes confuse fantasies (sexual and other) with what people really want to HAPPEN.

For example, fantasizing about something horrible happening to someone you hate does NOT mean you really want it to happen to him.
Same goes to all types of fantasies, including the sexual ones.
Same in the case of BDSM, I assume (and I should mention that everything I say here is IMO and I'm no expert). One fantasises about raping or abusing, the other fantasises about being in the reciving ends. It does not mean that they want it to happen for real.

P.S - no time for spell checking, sorry if it shows...


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on May 27, 2009, 11:21:34 pm
The poll's first option says "sadistic people" which was a bit confusing.
Anyway I voted now (second option).

As for what you said. I think people sometimes confuse fantasies (sexual and other) with what people really want to HAPPEN.

For example, fantasizing about something horrible happening to someone you hate does NOT mean you really want it to happen to him.
Same goes to all types of fantasies, including the sexual ones.
Same in the case of BDSM, I assume (and I should mention that everything I say here is IMO and I'm no expert). One fantasises about raping or abusing, the other fantasises about being in the reciving ends. It does not mean that they want it to happen for real.

P.S - no time for spell checking, sorry if it shows...

You have the right idea. BDSM is a complex acronym that stands for: BD (Bondage & Discipline) DS (Dominance & Submission) and SM (Sadism & Masochism). You can see there's nothing about being forced to do something (i.e. rape), it is more like roleplaying, where one partner voluntarily gives up control (because of being a masochist, and gaining satisfaction from being "controlled"). The other partner then becomes "dominant" over the submissive in the roleplay scenario. On the other hand, rape is different: One person, for whatever reason (maybe they're mentally challenged), forces his will upon someone who did not consent, and it becomes real, not roleplay. A perfect analogy is war-based video games. Just because you enjoy playing these games doesn't mean you would want to fight for real.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Lukipela on May 28, 2009, 09:00:15 pm
You have the right idea. BDSM is a complex acronym that stands for: BD (Bondage & Discipline) DS (Dominance & Submission) and SM (Sadism & Masochism).

Well, you taught me something new. Not being very interested in that stuff I always just assumed that it meant Bondgage&Sadomaschosim. Live and learn I guess.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on June 23, 2009, 05:52:38 pm
I'm confused, why is their no poll option for "I'm all for it?"
All the poll options appear to be against the idea. I think that, as long as it's practiced with consent, then people should be able to beat, tease and slap the heck out of each other.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on June 27, 2009, 04:31:58 am
That's sort of what option 2 is for. Option 1 is against, option 2 is for, and option 3 is indifferent.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Kohr-Ah Death on June 28, 2009, 01:57:43 pm
I'm confused, why is sadism and masochism even tied to sexual "disorders".

I'm probably thinking of something different...

Is sadism the thing when someone gets a great deal of satisfaction seeing someone else in misery?


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: jaychant on June 28, 2009, 04:07:11 pm
I'm confused, why is sadism and masochism even tied to sexual "disorders".

I'm probably thinking of something different...

Is sadism the thing when someone gets a great deal of satisfaction seeing someone else in misery?

Sadism: When someone gains sexual or non-sexual satisfaction from inflicting pain or humiliation on others, or otherwise dominating others.
Masochism: When someone gains sexual or non-sexual satisfaction from the infliction of pain or humiliation on oneself, or otherwise being dominated.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on July 01, 2009, 11:38:20 pm
A sadist is someone who won't hit a masochist.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Kohr-Ah Death on July 15, 2009, 06:26:53 am
I'm confused, why is sadism and masochism even tied to sexual "disorders".

I'm probably thinking of something different...

Is sadism the thing when someone gets a great deal of satisfaction seeing someone else in misery?

Sadism: When someone gains sexual or non-sexual satisfaction from inflicting pain or humiliation on others, or otherwise dominating others.
Masochism: When someone gains sexual or non-sexual satisfaction from the infliction of pain or humiliation on oneself, or otherwise being dominated.

Or more down to the point...

Why with the sex and why can't there be 2 different words for each definition...

Well here, lemme tell you what I'm "into" and you tell me the definition.

I enjoy seeing people in misery, not physical pain but emotional.
Never inflicting it myself but always enjoying it when it happens, especially when it happens to people
who tend to be more of a mindfuck than anything else. A.K.A. Manipulative/Greedy/Shallow Women
I'd give more examples but that seems to be the gist or the source of my issues.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on July 16, 2009, 12:04:11 am
Death,

It sounds like, in a nutshell, you feel enjoyment when people you think are bad people feel terrible. Does that about sum it up?

That sounds a little like sadism. It also sounds a little like a lack of empathy for your enemies. Actually, it sounds like a sense of passive vengence.


Title: Re: Sadomasochism (sadistic people)
Post by: Draxas on July 16, 2009, 03:54:28 pm
SOunds mostly like schadenfreude, though. Happiness in the misfortune of others, indeed.