The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Shiver on January 28, 2003, 06:44:32 am



Title: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on January 28, 2003, 06:44:32 am
I made a post about this at the GameFAQs forum before I knew this place existed, but it was a pretty good post so I guess there's no reason not to bring it up here.

MASSIVE SPOILERS, DON'T READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T BEATEN THE GAME. YOU WON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT ANYWAY!
So you've beaten Star Control II. Now what? Have you tried playing the whole game through doing any of the following for kicks? I highly recommend you limiting yourself somehow if you have already beaten the game if you want any challenge at all. The tasks with the asterisks by them have been fully tested out by me.

VARIATIONS

*1) Play the game without using any support vessels whatsoever. Flagship only. Sell whatever ships are given to you at your leisure. Use whatever you damn well please at the Sa-Matra because that part is frigging hard alone.

1.1) If you want the battles to be more difficult, only use the side slot for your guns. You may use a point defense laser. Consider carrying a very large number of crew. As above, the Ilwrath at the start and Sa-Matra battle are exceptions to flying solo.

1.2) Apparently the Sa-Matra can be beaten alone. This in itself is monstrously hard, so be warned.

*2) Don't use the flagship at all for combat. This will actually prove to be a great advantage as you will have more room and RUs for fuel tanks and such, but will still add a twist to the game. You can still pull out the precursor ship to retreat and finish off the Sa-Matra at the end.

*2.1) "U.N. mode" - Same as above, but now you must play with only one of every ship that is allied with you in your fleet at all times. If one dies, you must immediately turn back to Earth and go get another. You are not allowed to use more than one ship of any given race, and if it's possible to get a ship that is available, you have to forgo new modules to get it. Finally, you must name your alliance "The United Federation of Worlds".

Always carry one of the following around once available:
- Earthling Cruiser
- Spathi Eluder (becomes an exception after the Spathi poof)
- Zoq-Fot-Pik Stinger (allowing this species to be exterminated is not acceptable, so don't even think about letting them die off so you can carry around something else)
- Utwig Jugger
- Supox Blade
- Syreen Penetrator
- Orz Nemesis
- Shofixti Scout (consider the Shofixti quest a requirement)
- Chmmr Avatar
- Yehat Terminator (can be replaced infinitely, so you must have one at all times once possible)

The remaining two (three if you lose your Eluder after the Spathi are gone) slots are optional and can be filled with the following, as long as you only use one of each. They do not have to be replaced if they die. They are:
- Arilou Skiff
- Pkunk Fury
- Umgah Drone
- Thraddash Torch
- Druuge Mauler

*3) Play the game like an evil bastard. After you get what you need from a particular race, turn on them in any way you can if possible. Here's a very long list of suggestions of things to do while being a jerk: call the new alliance "my empire", enrage the Orz, let the Zoq-Fot-Pik be exterminated, sell crew to the Druuge for anything you want, make that one remark to the Supox about eating brocolli and cheese, talk dirty to Talana as much as possible, kill the shofixti and let the pkunk be devoured by their brothers, etc. One thing you should probably skip out on is allowing the Kohr-Ah to kill off species, but you can do that if you really want to. Just make sure you don't do more than you can get away with.

*4) Let the Kohr-Ah run their course, just to see what happens. Do whatever you want in the meantime.

*5) Piracy (killing other ships for RUs) instead of mining. One exception is the radioactives at the start. This presents a problem at the beginning, but becomes easier as you go. You might want to convert bio data into RUs by selling fuel so that you don't have to spend hours upon hours of fighting.

*5.1) Take 5 a step further by not hunting critters and relying on rainbow worlds for your credits instead. It's okay, there's more than enough.

6) No Melnorme assistance. No technology, no fuel, nothing.

7) Use only half of the maximum thrust and turn modules the whole way through. The time limit won't seem so large anymore.

8) You are not allowed to mine or hunt critters anywhere except for Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah space. You are allowed to strip-mine all of Sol, though, so take advantage of that before you set out on your first run. This is fun when you've already memorized where all the good resources are, because now you're exploring for new things again. None of that piracy crap, either. Not even against the Ur-Quan themselves, seeing as how Fwiffo could net you all the RU's you'd ever need if you're good at combat.

9) Do not fix the starbase at the beginning, just grab Fwiffo and leave the system. You'll need to get bio credits in a hurry to support your fuel needs and you'll never get ship upgrades, crew replacements, or any ships that weren't handed to you. Once you free the Chmmr, obtain the Utwig bomb and the Dnyarri, you get hauled back to the base as though you had been using it all along. This is the ultimate challenge and is probably impossible, but worth a try if you're up for it.

Update: I still don't believe it myself, but a few have succeeded in this.

10) Only use the Shofixti Scout in battles. This becomes very expensive. You'll be doing quite a bit of mining. Your first priority is to obtain the VUX Beast and Shofixti Maidens. If you get caught in a battle before you have any Shofixti, you must run.

11) Only use the Zoq Fot Pik Stinger in combat at all times. Flee if any enemy approaches you before then.

12) You are never allowed to obtain crew from the starbase. Ship 'gifts' are alright. The Syreen Penetrator can solve the problem, but you won't be seeing that for a long time. Make use of the cheesiest possible combat methods (SPATHI-FU!) to conserve your crew members and be extremely careful planeteering.

13) Only use one finger/button at any time while in ship melee. This will make ships like the Orz Nemesis virtually useless. I have absolutely no idea what this is like, but I assume it's not that difficult once you get used to it.

14) Only use Melnorme for refueling. You are not allowed to purchase any fuel from the Starbase nor from the Druuge. You'll have to sell parts to the Melnorme to get them to fuel you up at the start, but I heard that they give you free fuel if you have no valuable parts other than fuel pods and movement thingys.

MINOR HANDICAPS

15) "Take it like a man!"; no using the save or load functions at all except for when you wish to stop playing for a moment. That means if you screw up and die, game over.

*16) No rainbow worlds.

*17) No calling for the Melnorme with your caster; go find a supergiant.

*18) No using the portal spawner. You can still get it if you feel like it, though.

*19) Do not trigger the Slylandro self destruct code.

*20) Avoid deploying cheesy ships that can win against most enemies without taking hits. Here's a list of them:
- Spathi Eluder
- Thraddash Torch
- Utwig Jugger

*21) Fight the Sa-Matra (guards don't count here) using only one kind of ship. If it's possible, without losing a single ship. The ones that are confirmed as possible are listed below:

Pkunk Fury - Easiest of all.
Arilou Skiff - Not all that difficult, but quite time consuming. This would be easy if the laser locked on.
Chmmr Avatar - Impossible with one, a challenge with many.
Utwig Jugger - Moderately challenging with only one, a walk in the park with several.
Yehat Terminator - Difficult with one, pretty simple with many.
Thraddash Torch - You can outrun all the defenses, but your pea shooter does so little damage that this is a pain in the ass.

*22) All combat must be done with the Cyborg on. This puts melee experts at a disadvantage. Know when to retreat your ships.

*23) Do not pull the fuel trick on the Druuge, as that gives you more RUs than you'll probably ever need. On the other hand, if you aren't familiar with this trick, you should try it at least once. To do it, sell the Burvix Caster to the Druuge while all 16 of your flagship slots are loaded up with empty high-efficiency fuel tanks. Then, sell the 1500+ fuel for immense wealth at the starbase.

*24) Do not abuse the lander bug if you normally do.

25) Play the game nude. It wasn't my idea, but somehow this list wouldn't be complete without it.

Feel free to suggest other variations on playing the game.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on January 28, 2003, 07:51:42 am
See my post on here somewhere on here about pissing things off in the game (i.e. having them go to war, getting them to want to attack you, getting them so they won't deal with you, etc).  It's a major spoiler sometimes to describe how to do it like I did, but it's fun to do just to see different parts of the game.

Wondering about two things, just remembered I didn't ever try to piss off the Syreen.  And then, I think I've only seen the Kohr-Ah once on their rampage.  I wonder what the game acts like if I follow around the Kohr-Ah a while and see what they say and the other races say.

Still thinking about/working on a fast solve for SC2.  Kind of a "you know how the game goes normally so now let's solve it as quickly as possible doing all the quests.  My current best time is sometime in the beginning of 2157 with doing all the quests.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on January 28, 2003, 08:15:18 am
The Syreen don't get mad at you at all. She says stuff like "That's sort of cute, but cut it out."

You just reminded me of alternate game method 4!

4) Let the Kohr-Ah run their course, just to see what happens. Do whatever you want in the meantime.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Azarule on January 28, 2003, 11:20:23 am
Shiver, #3 is how I ALWAYS played the game  ;D  Once, just for kicks I annihilated every free-floating ship in the Orz cluster.  Then I went into the individual solar systems and wiped out *those* ships.  Finally I headed to the Orz homeworld to wipe out as many as I could.  Sooooooo many dead Orz :-)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on January 28, 2003, 07:52:24 pm
You could take the challenge of not gathering minerals for RUs and building your whole fleet out of the salvaged parts of your enemies' vessels. Maybe impossible... but I suppose you could get started with minerals and shift over to piracy ASAP...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Rob on January 29, 2003, 01:33:45 am
Quote
Shiver, #3 is how I ALWAYS played the game  ;D  Once, just for kicks I annihilated every free-floating ship in the Orz cluster.  Then I went into the individual solar systems and wiped out *those* ships.  Finally I headed to the Orz homeworld to wipe out as many as I could.  Sooooooo many dead Orz :-)


You must mean - 'Burst into several.'


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Krogoth255 on January 29, 2003, 03:06:01 am
I have some suggestions to make Star Control 2 harder... Pissed off the Melmore and do not get their technolgy for your landers and flagship and skip Arliou and don't get their Portal Spawner.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on January 29, 2003, 08:23:44 pm
Don't you get the option to attack even your allies?
Won't the utwig cancel their peace treaty with you if you start blowing their ships up without talking to them? (though it's hard - maybe try the supox instead).


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on January 30, 2003, 01:55:03 am
Quote
You can get almost every single race in the game to declare war with you, and it's really quite fun.


True.

Quote

you can't piss off the Druuge except by refusing to give them the bomb (I think. I never tried wholesale slaughter of their vessels),


That's how to do it.  Blow up their ships when you encounter them.  They'll evoke one of their laws as reason to attack you...

Quote

The Syreen, Chmmr, Arilou, and Umgah can't be made antagonistic towards you


Haven't tried it yet with the Syreen.  You don't get much of a chance to piss the Chmmr off (though I haven't tried).  The Umgah are pretty antagonistic to you anyway even without trying anything with them (they'll only let you go w/o a fight if they're under control of the talking pet).  And the Arilou, just act like an instinctual savage brute (blow up the first set of ships you see).  That'll get them pissed off at you pretty quick and they won't give you the portal spawner even.  Not sure if that'll end the game so the talking pet doesn't make it to the Umgah or what.

As I said, see my earlier post, it describes how to get everything mad at you at least the ones I didn't forget.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on January 30, 2003, 02:09:45 am
here's that post I talked about:

http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1040203535

Here's an addition to it:  With the Spathi you can get them to attack you on sight willingly if you take their quest and keep telling them you've completed it when you haven't.

Onward to (sometime) trying to piss off the Syreen and Chmmr.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on January 30, 2003, 08:26:12 pm
Good luck - IIRC, you never even find them with ships.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on January 31, 2003, 12:34:33 am
Okay, here's the list of variants right now.

1) Flagship only (exception: Sa-Matra)

2) No flagship for combat

3) Evil captain

4) Piracy/No mining (exception: radioactives at the beginning, possibly some others to start off)

5) No Melnorme assistance (impossible?)

6) Kohr-Ah rampage

When the game is finalized, I will personally play-test all of these and maybe post a guide for the possible ones on GameFAQs.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on January 31, 2003, 08:36:43 pm
Of course there is the smaller handicap of using no rainbow worlds...

Placing a lower limit on the flagship's max turn and thrust...

No more than 60 crew (or for the berserk, no more than the basic 10!) (this last will keep landers rom being full - I wonder why they can't just sleep in the landers??)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on January 31, 2003, 10:32:10 pm
Quote
Of course there is the smaller handicap of using no rainbow worlds...

Placing a lower limit on the flagship's max turn and thrust...

No more than 60 crew (or for the berserk, no more than the basic 10!)

No rainbow worlds is an okay rule to add if someone wants to make their game a little bit more difficult, but it wouldn't really change the game. Lower turn and thrust modules was something I suggested before, but no one really liked the idea of going very slow. Low crew on the flagship is kind of a weird one. I know if I had to do this, I'd simply not use my flagship for combat, which is already listed.

Sorry to shoot down all your ideas, especially since I want people to post suggestions here.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on January 31, 2003, 11:45:29 pm
Ah! But low crew on flagship means you also have to run a tight ship concerning landings, AND you can't take many casualties on the other ships in your fleet. When using the rest of your fleet to fight, it really helps to be able to re-crew them after each fight. With only 9 people on the mother ship, well, you're not doing a lot of re-crewing.

As for speed and turn, well I agree with your original idea. Not being able to outrun everybody in warp really changes the kinds of routes you take, sometimes.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 01, 2003, 03:02:34 am
Okee dokee, from now on I'll keep the first post updated with all the restrictions.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 01, 2003, 03:27:39 am
Quote

You CAN fail the Shofixti repopulation quest by just killing both Shofixti males. You evil evil person...


"Both" Shofixti males? am I missing something here? I do remember only one!


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 01, 2003, 03:29:30 am
Oh! by the way... question - you can sell the Portal Spawner to the Druuge.. I never tried that! what happens? do they take over the Arilou? what does the Arilou say? Is it possible that the Druuge exterminate the Arilou at their home planet? hahah that'd be interesting to see what remains there  ::)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: wminsing on February 01, 2003, 03:31:18 am
>>"Both" Shofixti males? am I missing something here? I do remember only one!<<

If you kill the first a second one appears....

-Will  


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Fotsev on February 01, 2003, 06:29:02 am
If you kill Tanaka, his brother Katana shows up and vows to avenge his death.  (until you talk him out of it)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on February 01, 2003, 02:50:42 pm
Quote
Oh! by the way... question - you can sell the Portal Spawner to the Druuge.. I never tried that! what happens?


I don't think anything happens.  Even looked at the source, not sure though (don't know the source that well yet), but no flags get set for selling it to the Druuge other than giving you the ships/fuel involved.

You can also sell the Shofixti females to the Druuge.

Also got a good number of thoughts about changes/mods to the game...don't have the time to mess with it though  :-/


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on February 01, 2003, 03:24:35 pm
I poked around the source and data files and found this:

It has come to our attention that you have female Shofixti creatures on board your ship.  We have the means to fertilze these creatures artificially allowing us to produce a hybrid beast to attend our furnaces.  We must have those females, Captain!  We are prepared to offer you fully six of our devastating Mauler starships in exchange.


Wonder what this hybrid would look like?  A rotting dripping snot-nosed furball in chains? lol  ;D


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 02, 2003, 09:55:19 pm
Lack of interest at GameFAQs (virtually no one posts on their message board) has convinced me not to post a guide for all these mods. But I'm still sure as heck going to try them out.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 04, 2003, 01:38:56 am
Ooh - another challenge!
- Only use the save and load features to allow you to leave the game for a while. When something screws up, take the consequences like a man!

I bet that investments in landers will rise considerably...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 04, 2003, 03:19:18 am
Absolutely wonderful idea, Death 999. Maybe some day you'll get promoted to Death 998 (like after that other guy gets obliterated by a hellbore cannon).


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 04, 2003, 06:08:47 am
It WAS obvious, but no one had said it yet.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on February 04, 2003, 10:24:20 am
Here's another variant to place a bit of difficulty into the game:

Don't use the portal spawner.  In fact, piss off the Arilou or if you want the ships take the portal spawner and sell it the Druuge.  But don't ever use it.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: unigolyn on February 04, 2003, 05:27:57 pm
Here's one, although it seems annoying more than difficult.

Never solve the Slylandro probe infestation. Combine this with a low enough number of thrusters (four or five?), so running away isn't an option. It should make things pretty hectic if the game drags out to 2160 (which it very well might, due to the slowness of your ship).

And/or, don't use the caster to call for the Melnorme, when you need them, go to a supergiant. Using them for help when fuel runs out completely isn't allowed.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 04, 2003, 08:34:45 pm
Reminds me - what is the probability that the Melnorme will be at a supergiant when you show up? Is it certain (though they may be hidden near a planet)?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: ErekLich on February 04, 2003, 11:08:55 pm
I belive they are always there.

You may have to search a bit for them but they are there.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Fotsev on February 05, 2003, 07:40:27 am
The Melnorme are always near a Supergiant. :)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 05, 2003, 06:59:48 pm
Distinguish giant from supergiant... I looked around every planet in... umm... the big red star in ilwrath/pkunk space. I didn't spend long in any of the planet screens (so he couldn't slip from one planet to another while I was local) and no Melnorme.
All the planet rings were orange.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 06, 2003, 03:02:01 am
The Melnorme's appearance in certain systems is hard-coded as far as I've messed with the source.

One thing I've never understood - if they Slylandro's probe multiplied so fast, couldn't it be used against the Ur-Quan? :P

I've always wondered what did the Ur-Quan think about the probe infestation!  ::)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 06, 2003, 05:45:38 am
The Ur-Quan probably just blew them out of the sky. Okay, not sky, but you know what I mean. Even if the probes were never stopped by you and allowed to reproduce into overwhelming numbers, the Kohr-Ah would go around and wipe them out with the Sa-Matra.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on February 06, 2003, 01:20:10 pm
Quote
Distinguish giant from supergiant...


OK, I'll distinguish by giving you the list:

Alpha Centauri
Alpha Illuminati
Alpha Octantis
Alpha Apodis
Zeeman
Alpha Vulpeculae
Beta Arae
Alpha Eridani
Alpha Aquilae

You should be able to see a common thread on those stars when you look at them in the star map.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 09, 2003, 06:09:45 am
As it turns out, it's not terribly difficult to make it through the whole game (sans Sa-Matra) using just the flagship. You're a bit restricted at the beginning, but spit-fire ion cannons + two dynamos can turn any probes or ilwrath that bother you into dust. By the time you face anything else, you should have spit-fire fusion blasters. A big downside to this is that bulldozing everything with a set of hellbore cannons (once you get them) isn't fun at all.

Playing without the flagship for battle isn't much of a problem, either. You just need to rush over to Orz space because every other nearby potential ally ship is crap against probes.

But I noticed that following one of these two routes can prove to be an advantage. The weaponry on the flagship costs a fortune, and so do ally ships. You can save yourself a lot of cash if you play like I did.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 15, 2003, 01:28:26 am
A challenge for you guys - what's the hardest ship to win the Sa-Matra with? I'm sure we'd all agree that the easiest vessel to use is the Pkunk's.

I've tried with a Druuge mauler.. hahha, that was so much fun, you ought to try it ;) You just have to get the drift momentum going fast enough and then take some good snipes at the generators.. I took down almost all of them with only one mauler, then crashed into the shield  ;D

Has anyone tried with any ship other than the pkunk/utwig ?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: ErekLich on February 15, 2003, 01:34:57 am
Actually I must disagree about the Pkunk being easy...

I think the Jugger is hands-down the easiest ship to use.

The Terminator can use a similar strategy to the Jugger, but its shiled works differently so its harder.

Thus far the only ship I have succeded with is the Jugger.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 15, 2003, 01:44:22 am
What? you can easily finish off the Sa-Matra with only one Fury!




Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 15, 2003, 02:37:34 am
I agree with the Fury == easy statement.

I realized after beating up the mixed fleet that I hadn't left any room for furies or terminators. So that left me with 4 each of Chmmr and Spathi, a Thraddash, an Utwig, a Zoq-Fot-Pik, and a Druuge.

The thraddash were capable of surviving a long time, but not good at doing damage.

the chmmr are surprisingly bad at doing the job, but it can be done if you come in and laser down the green repulsion grenades before they bounce you. Then you can get close enough to do the real damage. Also, if you're about to be bounced away from a shield generator and you're about to die, begin the escape sequence while right next to the generators- your zapsats will still damage the generators after the ship is destroyed -- but not if you have been bounced away first (the escape sequence makes the ship immobile).

I am curious as to how good the supox is at sidestepping the defenses.

The spathi aren't fast enough and get mown down immediately by fireballs.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 15, 2003, 04:12:11 am
Quote
A challenge for you guys - what's the hardest ship to win the Sa-Matra with?

That's exactly why the Pkunk/Yehat/Shofixti/VUX quest is so valuable. Every ship you'd consider taking into a massive battle against the Ur-Quan is simply terrible against the Sa-Matra, with the exception of the Utwig Jugger.

Before I add this to the first post, I would like it if all the ships would be tested against the Sa-Matra so I can say which ones are actually possible.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 17, 2003, 02:44:59 am
I can't say

oh wait I can! I have a save before the Sa-Matra with two Spathi Eluders... oh right, my point ;) -- the Spathi might not be fast, but they have an excellent turning rate - I bet you could dodge those fireballs if you play it carefully.. which brings up an idea - saving melee replays, StarCraft style! what do you say? it could help us prove our dares ;) plus I don't think it's so hard to implement it code-wise! it's just a bunch of clicks to save.. I would mess with it but I stopped programming with the University and all  :-/



Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 17, 2003, 10:58:00 pm
I have just confirmed that playing without suping up the main ship is EASIER than with suping it up, because you barely need to mine, and a relatively cheap fleet can serve you just as well, and much more efficiently. I never filled up the main ship's modules.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Omni-Sama on February 18, 2003, 04:04:07 am
Quote
I have just confirmed that playing without suping up the main ship is EASIER than with suping it up, because you barely need to mine, and a relatively cheap fleet can serve you just as well, and much more efficiently. I never filled up the main ship's modules.

Part of the fun in the game is to soup up the ship.  I love the customization that sorta situation provides.  I would think the ship would go really really slow if you didn't soup it up with those red pulse drives.  Is that not a problem?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 18, 2003, 05:23:10 am
Quote
I would think the ship would go really really slow if you didn't soup it up with those red pulse drives.  Is that not a problem?


By "souped up", he means buying weapons for the flagship. Fusion blasters are 4000 RUs a piece, for instance. It would be foolish not to max out your turning and thrust modules.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 18, 2003, 05:47:03 am
I thought up a new one.

You are not allowed to mine or hunt critters anywhere except for Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah space. You are allowed to strip-mine all of Sol, though.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Krulle on February 18, 2003, 08:23:22 pm
The ship i first succeeded with was the Chmmr Avatar.
I always thought it a fair challenge. With 3 or 4 i normally win. (Most of the times one is enough.)
And i thought the game was set up to be played with the Avatars against the Sa Matra, since the uncocooning of the Chmmr is always my last job. During gameplay i mostly use Thraddash Torches, Supox Blades and my PSV (Precursor Service Vehicle).

The Furys were never my choice. Just were not able to control them good enough..... But since you've all told me that the Fury is faster than these fireballs, i do believe you that it might be easy. Just keep all fireballs behind you, i guess.

But for experiencing other ships against the Sa-Matra: I've tried using the Supox Blade (my absolute favourite): That's no fight to win: You cannot shoot the green thingies down, the yellow fireball can be dodged quite easy, but you're not able to destroy it. And before you have a chance to start cracking the second generator, you have about 4 or 5 fireballs all chasing you at different times and intervals. It becomes nearly impossible to dodge them. :(


But for a real fighting challenge:
Try to fight the Sa-Matra using only  Umgah Drones!

Could be fun. For those standing behind you and watching you.  :D


Or those lovely Thraddash Torches: That main gun is just crap against these generators. But the flames could help you destroying the fireballs and green pushers fairly easy.
That could become a very long battle.


Or the Syreen Penetrator. No useable speciality and a very crappy main shot.

But ain't Penetrators designed to penetrate through something? (At least the name suggests so, need to try that) Just put the bomb in one and push through the shield. The crew will not be able to escape, but otherwise they would be dead anyway during combat....


Or the Arilou'Laleelay Skiff. That automatic pointer just points anywhere, never locks on a generator, because it tries to shoot past the generator directly at the Sa-Matra, just hitting the asteroids. But dodging the self-defence is quite easy, i guess.


CYou,
Martin


Edit: Fighting the Sa-Matra would be nice as an extra Melee-option. Wish to try the Guardian on that Big Trophy. Or the Ilwrath cloaked ship as well. Even the Ur-Quan ships i'd like to try (okay - no use sending the fighters, but the FRIED might prove usefull against the fireballs and the pushers).


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 18, 2003, 08:23:42 pm
(re: playing naked)

That's easier too. You are less likely to get static shocks which will destroy your system.

Unless you mean you have to play with your character naked. Then it's really hard, as Cmdr Hayes won't add the precursor techs to the station until you put your clothes on
- so you have to fight your way to Procyon and install it all there - and you still can't add more crew until you revive the Shofixti.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 18, 2003, 08:59:00 pm
Well, I'm not saying that it's possible with one ZoqFotPik Stinger, but I've managed to take a generator out with the Tongue, so it must be possible with .. (how many generators?) 6 Stingers!
:P

Also, a possibility: if you clash with the green thingies in a specific way, with ANY ship, you'll bounce backwards in a velocity value larger than your normal maximum velocity or the fireball's velocity... From there on it's just some practice to hit the generators - theoretically with ANY vessel!


BTW - did you try getting the Sa-Matra with only your flagship? hehe those Hellbore cannons take out the greenies/fireballs with no problem.. and you can easily dodge the fireballs.. the only problem is putting enough Shiva Furnaces (sp?) in that tight space to recharge fast enough for the next strike.
But it looks possible to me.. don't forget the greenies disappear once you get to "the edge" of the screen - only the fireballs follow and (again) those can be easily dodged/killed with the recharged-hellbores.





Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 19, 2003, 07:11:42 am
Quote
BTW - did you try getting the Sa-Matra with only your flagship? hehe those Hellbore cannons take out the greenies/fireballs with no problem.. and you can easily dodge the fireballs.. the only problem is putting enough Shiva Furnaces (sp?) in that tight space to recharge fast enough for the next strike.
But it looks possible to me.. don't forget the greenies disappear once you get to "the edge" of the screen - only the fireballs follow and (again) those can be easily dodged/killed with the recharged-hellbores.

No. I used the precursor vessel the whole way through until the Sa-Matra. You don't honestly expect me to defeat 6 Ur-Quan vessels and then the Sa-Matra with a half-capacity flagship, do you? *Sigh*, alright, since the whole handicap thing was my idea in the first place, I'll do everything I can to see if it's even possible to win like that.

Edit: Argh! I can beat Ur-Quan Dreadnaughts without taking a single hit (takes a little patience, but not hard at all) but these Kohr-Ah vessels are just ripping me to pieces! The best I've done is to lose to the last marauder of the six. My setup is 1 hellbore cannon, 3 shiva furnaces, 1 crew pod, 1 advanced fuel tank. I'm considering replacing the fuel tank with another crew pod and just having repeat Melnorme refuels on the way to the Sa-Matra. Hm... you know, I bet that would do the trick. Just a sec.

Edit 2: Yes, it is indeed possible to make it to the Sa-Matra without ANY fuel tanks. You need to toot your hyperwave caster once you reach 5 fuel. It gets very tricky once you make it to Ur-Quan space as you'll be guessing which black dot on the radar is your fuel refill. I had to save and load a lot, but I suppose I could've fought through a few dreadnaughts as long as I beat them without casualties. Anyhow, I get 100 crew for the battle and will no doubt be able to face off with the Sa-Matra. Will three shiva furnaces and a hellbore cannon be enough here? Probably not.

Edit 3: The stupid program killed on me while I was near the end of my Ur-Quan killing frenzy. I'm going to sleep now. I won't have time to try this again until friday. When I do, it'll be in a separate message.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Krulle on February 19, 2003, 03:26:50 pm
It is possible with the Flagship to destroy all Ur-Quan ships without getting a hit. My config (from front to bak): 1 crew, 1 hellbore, 1 ATS, rest Shiva. That way just point near the Ur-Quan ships (from a little distance), press fire ad the ATS will guide to shots right through  the debris.....  ;D

But taking the Sa-Matra down with that config? the ATS will guide the shots past the generators to the asteroid hull. dammit.....
But it is possible from a near point-blank range. Got 3 or 4 generators down with the original SC2 version. (still using UQM0.1, no need and no time to d/l newer versions yet).

CYa,
Martin


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 20, 2003, 08:38:28 am
That sounds like a good setup because of its double damage per shot. But like you said, you'd have to fire point-blank at the generators and that's not good. I'll give my old setup a try when I get back to my computer that actually has SC2 installed, then I'm going to to switch my second crew pod for a 4th shiva furnace, which will allow me to pretty much go berserk with the fire button. I'll still take hits from the Kohr-Ah, but the higher rate of fire should make enough of a difference to get to the Sa-Matra.

So the setup I'm suggesting goes like this from front to back: Hellbore cannon, crew pod, shiva furnace, shiva furnace, shiva furnace, shiva furnace.

If I succeed, the flagship-only challenge won't be such a pushover after all.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 22, 2003, 08:12:22 am
I can't hit those %&#$ing fireballs before they roast me alive. The weapons angle is never good enough. Either that or the damned things are swirving out of the way so they don't get hit. I have been able to take out fireballs, but it doesn't happen frequently enough to get through the whole battle. The only way the flagship could ever beat that thing is if it had a lot of point defense. And that's not really possible since you only get six slots. So I'm calling it quits.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 22, 2003, 04:02:40 pm
Nah, I tried with the point-defence already ;)
just for fun, I loaded the flagship with point-defences to see how it does against the SM's defences.. it's no good. Frankly I don't know why they invented this module except perhaps as a tribute to Star Trek.. or something.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 22, 2003, 07:13:31 pm
heheheh  ;D ;D
ok I admit it's not much of a challenge, but if you ever wanted to go against the Sa-Matra with your flagship I suggest you take a peek at my savegame  ;)
get it while it's hot!! (http://www.the-milsteins-do-sa.com/starcon2.09)  8)

(right-click and choose 'save as')



Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 22, 2003, 08:14:17 pm
Um, yes. The Sa-Matra did in fact go down very fast with that ship. You know it's not possible to do that without hacking, right?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 22, 2003, 08:18:11 pm
How do you think I did it? :P

it's still fun to try! you can't say it wasn't! ;)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 10, 2003, 07:06:22 am
Here's an incredibly annoying one:
No turning jets allowed. None whatsoever. Remove the two you have already installed at the beginning game.

This makes navigating solar systems an incredibly frustrating task, as you narrowly miss planets on full thrust and then have to spend the next half hour turning around just to realign yourself... only to narrowly miss them again.

Or a variation of that; only use the flagship in combat, and never have any turning jets installed whatsoever. (or ATS modules, once they become available.)

I can say I did this once for a great portion of the game (not voluntarily, but due to low funds) and it was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. Note that you don't HAVE to use maximum thrust in true space.. which helps to know.

Not to mention it takes literally a day and a half to turn your flagship in the opposite direction in hyperspace.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on April 10, 2003, 08:46:35 am
You've got to ditch the crewpod - you can't tell me you're going to let those people die when you take out the Sa-Matra!


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 10, 2003, 09:16:47 am
Who's to say the escape pod can only fit the captain on it? If it takes up all the lander bay areas, it should be able to fit a large number of people.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on April 10, 2003, 09:41:59 am
Well, you maybe right, but ditch it anyway - you can beat them single-handedly, can't you?!


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 10, 2003, 09:54:26 am
I've already tried my absolute hardest to defeat the Sa-Matra (guards and all), with a 50 and 100 crew precursor ship. It doesn't work. But something tells me that's not what you mean at all. If you don't use the flagship in that battle until it's all clear, then removing crew pods doesn't really make it any more challenging. It's more of a personal preference type of thing. That's why I'm not putting it on the list.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Nakar on April 10, 2003, 03:33:56 pm
Here's one for you:

"U.N. Mode"

You MUST play with ONE of EVERY ship that is allied with you in your fleet AT ALL TIMES. If one dies, you must IMMEDIATELY turn back to Earth and go get another (exception: Arilou Skiffs, Pkunk Furies, and other ships you can't get normally).

You're allowed to do whatever you want otherwise, but you CANNOT stock up on more than one ship of any given race, and if it's possible to get a ship that is available, you have to forgo new modules to get it (obviously things like fuel and crew can take priority - unless you want it otherwise).

Generally, you'd always have one of the following:
- Earthling Cruiser
- Spathi Eluder (becomes an exception after the Spathi poof, bonus points for keeping Fwiffo the whole game)
- Zoq-Fot-Pik Stinger
- Utwig Jugger (hooray!)
- Supox Blade
- Syreen Penetrator
- Orz Nemesis
- Shofixti Scout (if you Glory Device, GO BACK HOME)
- Chmmr Avatar (you CAN get them early, so GO DO IT unless you just want to have a challenge)
- Yehat Terminator (easy to get extras, even though you can't build them and they're technically not 'allies')

You can then also have any two to four of the following, if you can keep them alive:
- Arilou Skiff (you get three, but can only have one... so you get one)
- Pkunk Fury (see above)
- Umgah Drone (HAR HAR!)
- Thraddash Torch (you can build 'em IF you become their Great Teacher but DON'T take the Aqua Helix)

Hey, it's an alliance, try playing it like one! This might actually make the warp capabilities on every ship a thing to be treasured. Of course you can always run away with the flagship, you ninny...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 11, 2003, 08:17:05 am
Wow, Nakar. That's one I'm going to try out for sure. My next game is a toss-up between that and being evil.

Again, I would like to state that the very first post of this topic gets updated every time people add to the list.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matticus on April 11, 2003, 10:05:32 am
Quote
Here's one for you:

"U.N. Mode"

Hey, it's an alliance, try playing it like one!

Actually, that's how I always play my games, for that very reason. =)

Except that I don't immediately go back to the starbase to replace a ship that I've lost. But I do replace that ship right when I get back to the starbase. I just like having representatives from every race flying around with me. I figure it gives alliance members confidence in the Captain.

Yes, I know I'm a freak. =D


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Novus on April 11, 2003, 04:28:03 pm
I carry at least one of every ship I can get to provide additional flexibility in battle and try out silly combinations. For example, ZoqFotPik Stingers can take out Yehat Terminators in no time with that tongue of theirs (although you'll have to warp them out immediately afterwards, as they really take a beating in the process).


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: stas on April 11, 2003, 09:34:08 pm
Just for the challenge, have anyone tried to complete
the game without taking the Moonbase debris onboard?
Then the commander will be on your side AFAIK only
after you get transported to the Base by Chmmrs.
Theoretically I think this is possible to get as far
as that without an assistance from the Base. I wonder
if it is really possible or not.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Nic. on April 11, 2003, 09:54:11 pm
Won't work -- The game is specifically written to be absolutely and in all forms impossible to play w/o completing the Earth Starbase missions.  If you don't believe me, start up a new game, and head directly out into Hyperspace, without talking to the Earth Starbase at all.  Feel free to grab Fwiffo off of Pluto first, if you like.  Let us know how long you last.  :P


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on April 11, 2003, 10:12:46 pm
Well, let's see... You'll have to get bio credits, and quickly before you've sold off your thrusters. Then you'll neet to get the sun device to unlock the chmmr...
but before you can get them to bring you to the starbase I believe you also need to bring them the bomb and the talking pet -- essentially, finish the game.

Yikes.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 11, 2003, 10:33:24 pm
Well, I know that there are life forms running around some of the Centauri stars. Perhaps that'll be enough to get you to a rainbow world; after the first one, you'd pretty much be set for a while, if you relied on Melnorme 'refuel' ships. Sitting in hyperspace waiting for them to come by would be a pain, but at least with Fwiffo, you'd not have to worry about the probes. But you'd have to be bloody careful about losing crew; the only way to get more would be from ship 'gifts'.

I imagine you'd have to rely on Fwiffo rather heavily too, for the confrontation with the mycon, the umgah, the druuge...given that you can't purchase any weapon upgrades or escort ships.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Nakar on April 12, 2003, 01:38:03 am
Fwiffo and the Earth ship can easily take out the VUX. In the Sextantis system is one Rainbow World and three of the most bio-loaded worlds around (several are very dangerous though, but you could buy some techs). If you could get there, you could easily get all the credits you needed to get fuel to complete the game. Having the Portal Spawner would be a big help though.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on April 14, 2003, 04:14:47 am
Quote
I've already tried my absolute hardest to defeat the Sa-Matra (guards and all), with a 50 and 100 crew precursor ship. It doesn't work. But something tells me that's not what you mean at all. If you don't use the flagship in that battle until it's all clear, then removing crew pods doesn't really make it any more challenging. It's more of a personal preference type of thing. That's why I'm not putting it on the list.


It's doable - I just tried it on my 3DO and was able to take out the Sa-Matra single-handedly with my just Flagship. Now I also think it is possible without having a crewpod, but I have not succeeded in doing that yet...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 14, 2003, 08:46:22 pm
Only use the Precursor ship in battles.
And only use side mounted guns, no arc, no front, no rear.
And no ATS modules.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 18, 2003, 09:12:11 am
I've thought of another myself. Play with the cyborg on. Bonus points for using crappiest setting.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 18, 2003, 09:47:31 am
Only use one finger/button at any time while in ship melee.
This will make ships like the Orz Nemesis virtually useless.

Only use point defense lasers for combat. Your first priority is going straight to two rainbow worlds to obtain the credits necessary for the point defense laser technology. Until you obtain the technology, you'll have to rely on Earthling Cruiser Point defense.

Only use Melnorme for fuel. You are not allowed to purchase any fuel from the Starbase nor from the Druuge. You might be allowed to fill up with enough to get you to the nearest planet with life.

No Shiva Furnaces or Dynamos or ATS systems, you must use the Precursor ship in battle at all times, and you must have all four weapon slots filled with weapons. Makes Extra Crew Pods and the Shofixiti quest a much higher priority.

Only escort ships are allowed. Only their secondary weapons will ever be allowed to be used. In the case of Zoq Fot Pik, Thraddash and Spathi, only the primary weapons are ever allowed to be used.

Only use the Zoq Fot Pik Stinger in combat at all times.

Only have a single ion-bolt cannon installed in the rear slot of the ship. No Dynamos or Shivas are allowed. ATS modules are allowed. Only fight with the precursor ship.

You are never allowed to obtain crew from the starbase. Ship 'gifts' are alright. Syreen Penetrator suddenly becomes invaluable.

Only use the Shofixti Scout in battles. Becomes very expensive. Mining suddenly becomes very important. First priority is to obtain VUX Beast and Shofixti Maidens.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 18, 2003, 10:58:29 am
Quote
Only use one finger/button at any time while in ship melee.
This will make ships like the Orz Nemesis virtually useless.

Only use point defense lasers for combat. Your first priority is going straight to two rainbow worlds to obtain the credits necessary for the point defense laser technology. Until you obtain the technology, you'll have to rely on Earthling Cruiser Point defense.

Only use Melnorme for fuel. You are not allowed to purchase any fuel from the Starbase nor from the Druuge. You might be allowed to fill up with enough to get you to the nearest planet with life.

No Shiva Furnaces or Dynamos or ATS systems, you must use the Precursor ship in battle at all times, and you must have all four weapon slots filled with weapons. Makes Extra Crew Pods and the Shofixiti quest a much higher priority.

Only escort ships are allowed. Only their secondary weapons will ever be allowed to be used. In the case of Zoq Fot Pik, Thraddash and Spathi, only the primary weapons are ever allowed to be used.

Only use the Zoq Fot Pik Stinger in combat at all times.

Only have a single ion-bolt cannon installed in the rear slot of the ship. No Dynamos or Shivas are allowed. ATS modules are allowed. Only fight with the precursor ship.

You are never allowed to obtain crew from the starbase. Ship 'gifts' are alright. Syreen Penetrator suddenly becomes invaluable.

Only use the Shofixti Scout in battles. Becomes very expensive. Mining suddenly becomes very important. First priority is to obtain VUX Beast and Shofixti Maidens.

Whoa, that's a lot. I'll tell you right now though, the "four guns, no power or ATS" and "rear ion gun only" mods can't be done. Since the Melnorme show up when you run out of fuel, you don't need to use the starbase at all but you will need to sell some parts of your ship.

Update: Let me also add that "secondary weapons on support vessels" basically turns out to be the same as the Shofixti challenge as that is the only real way you'll ever do damage.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 18, 2003, 05:56:13 pm
Also, the use only point-defense idea is impossible.

you might think, "nah, it's just really really hard"

but it's impossible - you can't win against (for example) an Ur-Quan vessel with only point-defense.
same goes for Yehat and Ilwrath. Other battles can probably be won. (oh, except for the Sa-Matra of course)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on April 18, 2003, 10:25:24 pm
Well, you might be able to beat an Ur-Quan if you had six point defense modules, enough to block a fusion blast. That would help you get close enough, and with enough regeneration you can keep firing longer than the Quan... and with your speed advantage, probably stay behind it. Maybe this should be tried??


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 19, 2003, 12:53:03 am
Censored and Death_999: it's possible. Do I know this for certain? No. But I have heard others talk about 6 point defense lasers humiliating Ur-Quan as though they've seen it themselves.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 20, 2003, 11:23:06 am
Quote
Also, the use only point-defense idea is impossible.

you might think, "nah, it's just really really hard"

but it's impossible - you can't win against (for example) an Ur-Quan vessel with only point-defense.
same goes for Yehat and Ilwrath. Other battles can probably be won. (oh, except for the Sa-Matra of course)

You don't need to fight Yehat in the game, I believe. Or Ilwrath for that matter, except for the first one you encounter. Even to interrogate Ilwrath for their homeworld coordinates, I think you can still emergency warp-out...

Do any of you gentlemen know if there is any sort of 'effective' limit on Point-Defense Modules? (in the manner of ATS modules and Dynamos)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Nic. on April 20, 2003, 01:23:43 pm
Yup:

#define MAX_DEFENSE 8


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 20, 2003, 05:48:24 pm
Quote

You don't need to fight Yehat in the game, I believe. Or Ilwrath for that matter, except for the first one you encounter.


Anyone ever tried getting the first Ilwrath with only point defense on the earthling cruiser?

seriously, go try!.. heheheh

good luck ;)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 21, 2003, 02:07:14 am
I suppose you'd be allowed to use missiles on the first cruiser, but isn't the cruiser faster that the Ilwrath? And doesn't the Point Defense have longer range than the Ilwrath's hellfire cannon? I am not sure on this myself, of course.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 21, 2003, 02:16:39 am
That first Ilwrath is a royal pain in the ass to me. For like half of the variants I have to make an exception just for that one little bugger. There is no way in hell to take down the half dead Ilwrath with just a point defense. Also, no flagship weapons setup in the game can defeat the Sa-Matra.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on April 21, 2003, 08:38:54 pm
Well, certain people have tried and come close to succeeding... Isn't that in this very thread??

Also, I find it interesting that MAX_DEFENSE is set just high enough to block a Kohr-Ah Blade.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 22, 2003, 04:57:59 am
So, stacking on a crew pod, a high efficiency pod, 8 point defense lasers, that would leave 6 more empty slots. (do ATS systems influence PD lasers at ALL?)

So, 3 dynamos and 3 shivas.....does the PD have a gatling gun-like effect on firing, or does it have a really slow rate of fire?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 22, 2003, 05:03:30 am
you mean 6 shivas?
what's the use of putting in dynamo units as the shivas are upgraded dynamos?
and ATS has nothing to do with the PD


also, how the heck do I stop this thread from alerting me via email with every new post?!
the "notify" option here (selecting NO) doesnt work!
arrrgh!


:P


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 22, 2003, 05:06:50 am
Wait a minute, what's with all the questions Kohr-Ah_P? go check it out :P I'm surprised at you, these are basic things ;)

BTW Shiver, some of the variations suggested are not basically hard, they're just dead annoying! what's with the no turning jets? here's one! play the whole game with only 1 crew on the flagship and you have to use only it in battles!


come on!
don't take up every variation suggested, take the fun ones..


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: RockasaurusRex2000 on April 22, 2003, 05:58:03 am
 (1. the first time I beat the game, I didnt use any support at all. You're right, it's not that hard, actually, in some cases much easier. Except for the Sa-Matra battle, which at that time, I didn't even think of using any other ship besides the Avatar.

*3) heh, When I first played it, I was like 6, so I didnt know what each race was saying. I just hit random things to say. I think I made everyone pissed. Very fun.

*19)How I play it every time. Not much difference since I dont usually collect and credits above what I have to get.

*21) Up till today I had no idea there was a self-destruct code! I thought the only thing the Slylandro were good for was a chat about the Precursors.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 22, 2003, 06:17:56 am
Quote
what's the use of putting in dynamo units as the shivas are upgraded dynamos?


Uhm, Censored? As was stated before several times... Dynamos and Shivas don't do the same thing...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 22, 2003, 11:15:10 am
If you only have a few slots, go for shiva furnaces. But if you're turning the little tugboat into a total Ur-Quan slayer, you're better off going with 3 dynamos (no more, ever) and 3+ furnaces.

Quote
BTW Shiver, some of the variations suggested are not basically hard, they're just dead annoying! what's with the no turning jets? here's one! play the whole game with only 1 crew on the flagship and you have to use only it in battles!

come on!
don't take up every variation suggested, take the fun ones.

Believe me Censored, I share your sentiments. But I also don't want to offend the friendly people of the board by excluding half of everything I hear. Someone who's looking for a fun way to play it can simply decide for themselves what's fun. Nakar's U.N. mode was a good one, but since I'm a little too good at melee, I'm playing it with the cyborg doing all the fighting and no rainbow worlds or Druuge fuel tricks. I have in fact cut down on a few that I knew were both dull and impossible.

Edit: Okay, so I changed my mind and got rid of a few things. There are still a bunch I'll probably never try that are still left because they sound interesting, though.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 22, 2003, 08:29:37 pm
Quote


Uhm, Censored? As was stated before several times... Dynamos and Shivas don't do the same thing...


Couldn't find anything about it

so what's the difference, exactly? (except for the fact taht Shivas are upgraded Dynamos)


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Nic. on April 22, 2003, 08:41:47 pm
Are you people allergic to the Search link at the top of the page or something?  Here, I'll take the 10 seconds to search for "shiva" and "dynamo" for you.

...

Oh look, here's Meep-Eep's original post on the matter (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1037334184;start=0#0)  Enjoy.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 23, 2003, 12:02:16 am
Thanks..


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Omni-Sama on April 23, 2003, 03:01:45 am
Play the entire game... naked.

Some people believe this feat is impossible, but I argue otherwise.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: guesst on April 23, 2003, 09:55:58 am
What about ironmanning the game. How many people have started at the beginning and not saving, not quitting, beat it?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Captain Smith on April 23, 2003, 10:07:44 am
Quote
What about ironmanning the game. How many people have started at the beginning and not saving, not quitting, beat it?


Yeah done that one several times....gotta have a day to kill though to do that.  The thing is though most good games are like that...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 23, 2003, 10:27:10 am
You don't really need a day... just a couple hours.

You can quite easily finish the game within a year; I've done it.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 28, 2003, 03:02:35 am
Addendum: You can finish the game by November of 2155 without obtaining any life forms or rainbow worlds or ever encountering the Melnorme or ever using the Precursor ship in combat save for emergency escape or for insertion into the Sa-Matra.

You don't even need to encounter a single Spathi in your entire journey (though I did pick up Fwiffo) and the Burvix Caster can be used to shoo the Ilwrath away from Procyon. There are only three battles (excepting the Sa-Matra battle) that you absolutely need to win. The Dnyarri-Umgah battle, the Mycon-Sun Device battle, the Druuge Utwig-Bomb battle. I suspect you don't even have to do the latter two if you are willing to wait and allow the Kohr-Ah to do your dirty work for you. (obviously, you can't beat the game in 8 months if you wait for them)

Money is going to be tight unless you visit the Pkunk early to obtain four Pkunk Furies to sell. Once the Arilou give you their Skiff gift, you are pretty much set from that point onwards.

For an easy fight with no casualties, use a single Utwig Jugger on the Umgah and the Mycon. The Druuge are a bit trickier, but an Orz Nemesis can do wonders if you are having trouble taking on 6 Maulers with a single Jugger.

At the very least, all of this proves that you can win the game within 6 months if you know exactly how, lending hope to all those who screw around until 2159 without attempting to win the game.

Incidentally, the straight journey with full thrust from Earth to Alpha Pavonis VII and then back to the location of the Natural Quasi Space Portal takes me almost precisely 30 days. Something to keep in mind if you want to avoid Probes wandering in Hyperspace at the beginning. (or you could just linger in Alpha Pavonis' system for however long it takes.) The round trip also requires 90 fuel points if you use the portal in QuasiSpace to return to Sol.

Obviously, your mileage / speed / handling may vary.

Also note that while travel in QuasiSpace may use no fuel in and of itself, it may be cheaper (and ironically, faster) to go directly to your destination in Hyperspace, if it's within 20-30 units.

Oh and one last thing:
Shiver, your list states that using the Chmmr Avatar against the Sa-Matra is impossible with one and challenging with many. I managed to destroy all 8 shield generators with two Avatars, and the first one was on its last legs in any case. It wasn't all that hard. Maybe it's the difference in how Melee is set up between the PC and 3DO version.

*sigh* Okay, maybe one *MORE* last thing. (I feel like that uncle guy from that Jackie Chan cartoon.)
The Druuge Fuel trick nets you approximately 32,000 RU if you warp back home and sell your 1595 fuel. Coupled with the 16 high-efficiency fuel tanks (which you've spent your hard-earned 16,000 RU purchasing in the first place), you end up with something to the effect of 48,000 RU. You may think that's all you'll ever want, but it actually falls quite short. A trio of Hellbore cannons, a trio of ATS modules, a Crewpod, and a fuel tank full of fuel (38,350 RU) will leave you with only enough RU for a pair of Shiva furnaces, a far cry short of the 5 Shivas, 3 Dynamos, and sizeable Orz/Spathi/Umgah/Chmmr escort fleet that you'll almost certainly want as well.

Y.A.T. (Yet Another Thing). You may think no-turning jets just makes the game annoying instead of hard, but you have to consider the additional factor of being unable to avoid enemy encounters in HyperSpace by 'faking them out' or the difficulty in accurate shooting in Melee when your turning rate is similar to that of Mauler rather than that of a Cruiser. It would make you think twice about putting the guns in the side slots instead, and filling up on PD lasers. And if having no turning jets is incredibly annoying to navigate with in-system, just do this challenge with one or two installed. It makes navigating in-system just tricky instead of impossible, and in addition to the earlier listed difficulties, it also nearly eliminates the chance of 'faking out' in-system ship fleets with skillful manuevering, forcing you to be a lot more careful and strategic about entering enemy controlled territory.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on April 29, 2003, 08:34:46 am
Quote
Also, no flagship weapons setup in the game can defeat the Sa-Matra.


There is at least one flagship setup that can defeat the Sa-Matra as I've done it.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on April 29, 2003, 09:36:33 am
*Raises an eybrow*

Oh? Would you care to share this with us? If you read some previous pages of this very topic, you'll see that I figured out how to make it to the Sa-Matra with zero fuel tanks so I could hold another shiva furnace and still lost so this is of great interest to me.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on April 29, 2003, 12:20:15 pm
Well if he means not the guardian fleet and just the Sa-Matra itself, then I imagine a proper application of hellbores and dynamos would do it..

No wait... crewpods... nevermind... ouchie...


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 29, 2003, 09:14:30 pm
Nah Shiver, I posted a savegame of a configuration that worked..


so what if I hacked the saved game?
;)


BTW, maybe you should add side challenges for the super melee - ship vs ship, or fleet vs fleet.. that'd be cool

also, as I mentioned once before, we should ask the developers to make it possible to record (super) melee fights and replay them.. it's very easy to do programming-speaking and it'd be fun! how about it?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on April 30, 2003, 08:14:36 am
Quote
*Raises an eybrow*

Oh? Would you care to share this with us? If you read some previous pages of this very topic, you'll see that I figured out how to make it to the Sa-Matra with zero fuel tanks so I could hold another shiva furnace and still lost so this is of great interest to me.


I'm not in town right now, so I can't check my 3DO savegame for the exact configuration (I'll be back on Sunday so I'll let you know then), but let me give you a hint as to the strategy of how to defeat the Sa-Matra with your flagship (and by the way it is not a hacked savegame) so you can maybe figure it out for yourself in the meantime.

I used your idea on the fuel pod, by the way, so that I didn't use any and I had to use 1 crew pod (I still think it's doable without one but it is extremely difficult).

The strategy you need to employ is to use the Sa-Matra's weapons (or should I say one of its weapons) to your advantage.

If you find out how to use the particular Sa-Matra weapon system to your advantage then it's a matter of configuring your flagship with the appropriate modules to destroy the energy generators, take out the Sa-Matra fired weapons afterwards and go in and take care of business.

The configuration I used that worked is not the only configuration that I think will work with this strategy.

When I get back in town, I'll give you the flagship configuration off the savegame of my 3DO.

The strategy I used does cause you to lose crew against the Sa-Matra, so it won't work if you don't use a crew pod, and it doesn't work all (or should I say most of) the time, but you will eventually get it. I think it took me about 5 or 6 tries to defeat the Sa-Matra with this strategy.

By the way, the configuration is good for getting past the Sa-Matra's defender's, too (without losing any crew).

Now, I've also used a crew-podless configuration, but I've only managed to get past the Sa-Matra's defenders and take out at least 2 - 4 of the shield generators with quite a few different crew-podless flagship configurations.

The strategy I've devised is really tough to perform consistently, but I think it is doable if you try it enough and get lucky.

If people are interested in this second crew-podless strategy I can post it here and maybe someone will be able to defeat the Sa-Matra with it.

Matt


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on April 30, 2003, 08:21:50 pm
If you mean the-get-hit-by-green-balls-and-use-momentum-to-drift-faster-than-the-Sa-Matra's-weapons, it's been thought of and done already

it still takes some amount of luck to perform this, as when you pass the "edge" of the screen, the fireballs might come directly at you. Plus, you might bump directly into the Sa-Matra and lose.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Matt Caspermeyer on May 01, 2003, 03:41:19 am
Yep - that's the strategy, but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread until now, and I kept seeing posts about the flagship not being able to take out the Sa-Matra, which is not true.

Like I said, it's not guaranteed, but it'll work sooner or later, plus it's much more infrequent to hit the shield then to get taken out by the faster fireballs.

Now, to take it out without a crew pod - that is much more challenging!


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on May 01, 2003, 08:56:04 am
I should give that a try next time I play. The Kohr-Ah's in the guardian fleet always made having a crew pod absolutely required for me anyway, so I probably still have a save game right before the Sa-Matra with one lonely precursor ship down to 12 crew.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on February 12, 2004, 03:52:44 pm
This seems to be the thread we should post in. Now for our business:

Quote
UQM needs a hard mode so I (and many others, I would hope) can have something to look forward next time I play it through. Who's with me?

Er, I do mean after version 1.0 of course.

-WISH-LIST-

* For starters, Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah computer ships need to smarten up and stop chasing me when I'm using Fwiffo. Ideally, a Spathi should be hard pressed to win against even one of those.

* After two months or so of game time, the original hierarchy Earth guard (6 Ilwrath and 6 Spathi) should arrive back at Earth and wait patiently to kick the crap out of you. If you approach the Spathi High Council before this time, they should tell you to go away.

* Everything costs twice as much.

* All rainbow worlds should have fairly powerful hostile fleets guarding them for no particular reason.

* The Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah figure out how dangerous you are and occasionally send large fleets to track you down.

* Half as many charity ships are given out by friendly races.

* The Ur-Quan have their own precursor tug (just like yours, except cooler) that you have to fight near the end of the game.


1. Ships battles tend to be played like the race acts. For example: Fwiffo runs. Koar-Ah chase you, same with the Ur-quan. But ofcourse, changing it can't do any harm. It can and will be a good challege to see a Koar-ah battle ship "camping" behind his razor-blade line...

2. Not a bad idea at all. I agree it will end a good challenge (since you won't have many ships until then) but still, there is a major problem: Why would they leave the starbase unharmed until you arrives? Think about it.

3. Not bad idea at all. It will surely add more challenge.

4. No reason for that! Who will guard those planets? And why? Another problem is the Melnorme. If they know ships guard some planets, they will want to know why. And after they find that they guard on Rainbow Worlds they won't need you to find Rainbow Worlds for them.

5. I don't think it is a good idea. For a starter, they won't think you are a threat since they have the Sa-Matra. How could they know you will get a bomb, get a talking pet and make the bomb even stronger with the help of a new race which has new ass-kicking ships that can wipe them all?

Second, how could they track you if they don't know about your existence? Every ship that has met you... well, was destroyed. Unless you used your "Warp unit".

Third, they are not fast another to chase you. Which brings me to the last point: If they can't "catch" you, they will ambush you in Earth. You might think : "Why?" and the answer is simple: You are a hunam. And after they find out about the starbase there won't be humanity to save!

6. Surely it will add more challenge. But there is one problem: The Terminators "donation". Will they still give you "full" Terminators or just 1 or 2 ships less than max or even worse, only until you have half full of max ships?

7. Sc3, haven't we learn anything from it? And yea, the sa-matra can be more powerful to add more challenge.

-Now for conclusion I will say one thing that many people said to me: Tell us when Beta is ready ;D


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: FalconMWC on February 12, 2004, 06:07:46 pm
Quote

1. Ships battles tend to be played like the race acts. For example: Fwiffo runs. Koar-Ah chase you, same with the Ur-quan. But ofcourse, changing it can't do any harm. It can and will be a good challege to see a Koar-ah battle ship "camping" behind his razor-blade line...

Well, yes that could work, but the game is trying to simulate the species over "look on life". For example, both types of Ur-quan are agressive by nature. Thus they attack. Now if you look at a spathi ship  it runs. (I am talking about a computer playing on level awsome) Those jus "fit" their type of species. Though I think that the Spathi should have gotten the Thraddash ship.......   8)

OffTopic: Hey DJ, check out the first part of this thread. You know, that one that is marked " This is the ultimate challenge and is probably impossible"!  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Tiberian on February 12, 2004, 11:12:56 pm
I've always wanted to say to the Arilou "I think it would be best if I killed you now."

But I've never had the heart to do it.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: FalconMWC on February 12, 2004, 11:58:00 pm
You can check out the sound files at PNF to see what they say. (Of course the never let you attack them). They just make excuses.  >:(


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 13, 2004, 01:56:05 am
I have to wonder why people decided to post in this thread regarding the other one.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 13, 2004, 04:44:08 pm
Quote

1. Ships battles tend to be played like the race acts.
4. (concerning fleets guarding Rainbow planets)
5. (concerning Ur-Quan sending ships to ambush you)


1. the computer AI is built to "think" like the race it controls.
4. putting a guard fleet on a Rainbow planet is a nice idea, it will make the game harder. considering the plot - I don't see a good explanation for putting a fleet over a rainbow planet other than for research. if you remember, the Melnorme have been running from the Ur-Quan ever since the Milieu broke apart. even if they know there's a rainbow planet at location x.x, they won't get near there and prolly pay you if you cleanse the fleet for them.

5. I like that idea:

(*) concerning tracking you down:
the Ur-Quan can track you down with every warp to hyper-space, just like they did in Vela (if you check that planet, you meet a Dreadnought saying they detected a warp-jump from that area).

(*) concerning the starbase:
They wouldn't destroy the Earth starbase so quickly because (a) they don't necessarily know it's being used to service you, and (b) they need it for themselves and for their battle thralls.

however, -
(*) concerning the Kzer-Za's time-management:
they really don't have time to track you down or keep a record of every move you make (unless they have a really really good excuse, and I don't think there is one, from their point of view). they are far too busy with their doctrinal war - they abandoned their battle-thralls, they haven't serviced the Earth starbase in some 20 years, and they do tell you to let them win their war in peace when you kill enough of them.

The Kohr-Ah don't really care what you do. they're too focused in their own world (e.g. the talking pet situation).




Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Fsi-Dib on February 13, 2004, 05:57:03 pm
Some more of those "Make the game harder":

1) Fight the Sa-Matra with your trusty old Cruisers ... and see their crew die.

2) As mentioned in another thread, play without visiting the starbase. That would be mutually exclusive with the "No Melnormes".

3x) Use only your flagship in battles (except Sa-Matra) and don't put any dynamos or shivas onto your ship. Also add as many energy taking guns as possible. Shoot once, run away for 20 minutes, shoot again.

Hey what would it look like? A PSV shooting 6 hellbores (Front 1, 1 Rear, 2 Spread, 2 side) and 3 ATS units ... COOL.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Shiver on February 13, 2004, 08:45:47 pm
Quote
Some more of those "Make the game harder":

1) Fight the Sa-Matra with your trusty old Cruisers ... and see their crew die.


Cruisers can't possibly win that fight, so no.

Quote
2) As mentioned in another thread, play without visiting the starbase. That would be mutually exclusive with the "No Melnormes".


It's listed, actually.

Quote
3x) Use only your flagship in battles (except Sa-Matra) and don't put any dynamos or shivas onto your ship. Also add as many energy taking guns as possible. Shoot once, run away for 20 minutes, shoot again

Hey what would it look like? A PSV shooting 6 hellbores (Front 1, 1 Rear, 2 Spread, 2 side) and 3 ATS units ... COOL.


It might be, but do you really want to fly around for 20 minutes?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on February 13, 2004, 08:53:38 pm
Quote
Some more of those "Make the game harder":

1) Fight the Sa-Matra with your trusty old Cruisers ... and see their crew die.

2) As mentioned in another thread, play without visiting the starbase. That would be mutually exclusive with the "No Melnormes".

3x) Use only your flagship in battles (except Sa-Matra) and don't put any dynamos or shivas onto your ship. Also add as many energy taking guns as possible. Shoot once, run away for 20 minutes, shoot again.

Hey what would it look like? A PSV shooting 6 hellbores (Front 1, 1 Rear, 2 Spread, 2 side) and 3 ATS units ... COOL.


1. Not a chance.

2. The game will be very short: only 10 fuel units.

3. Hell, why 20 minutes?


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Censored on February 13, 2004, 08:53:44 pm
hey, we already discussed all of this..

read the thread!

:P




Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Death 999 on February 13, 2004, 10:03:53 pm
Quote
2. The game will be very short: only 10 fuel units.


A tip for the English-impaired: 'mutually exclusive' means that you cannot have both of them. He said you cannot both not go to starbase and Melnorme.


Title: Re: SC2 play challenges
Post by: Krulle on February 16, 2004, 03:05:09 pm
Quote
4. No reason for that! Who will guard those planets? And why? Another problem is the Melnorme. If they know ships guard some planets, they will want to know why. And after they find that they guard on Rainbow Worlds they won't need you to find Rainbow Worlds for them.
Add even more difficulty here:
After the third planet, have the Melnorme say, that they found out what the pattern is and means, and that after this trade they will leave the sector to follow the Precursors.
3x Rainbowplanet is enough to buy everything necessary to win the game, but no more fuel on your trips afterwards.

Maybe you can have one single trader left in this region of space, but finding it is difficult, since Blueish not only crosses from planet to planet, but also from system to system. Thus further trade will become very hard.
And yes, calling for Melnormes in Hyperspace with your 'Caster nnot only brings one Melnorme coming in 15 minutes, but also a lot of Heirarchy battlegroups patrolling all of Hyperspace, as well as some Kohr-Ah Death-groups. And additiopally, normal Hyperspacefluctuations prevent you from collecting the Debris if your were travelling in Hyperspace before combat (never mind the fact that you are pulled into realspace before the fight starts, you simply jump back automagically and thus loose the debris).

Enjoy!
Krulle