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The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Cafť => Topic started by: Lukipela on February 04, 2010, 01:43:00 pm



Title: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 04, 2010, 01:43:00 pm
Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines is a small forum game set during before SC II, when the war was still fully on between the Hierarchy and the Alliance. In this game you and your friends play a small group of Corridor 9 infiltrators, sent out on special missions against the Hierarchy. We've played one mission so far, and it went quite well. Now it's time for a second one. I've reworked the rules a bit to make it clearer, based on our experiences during the last game. This will be the main thread for discussing rules and game stuff. I will open a secondary mission thread for our devout warriors, once they present themselves. The stuff after the line is going to be long and filled with the rules and requirements. If you followed the last game, not much has changed but you might want to refresh your memory. If you haven't, then by all means read through it and decide if you have the spare time required for an endeavour such as this.


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Welcome to Starcontrol: Behind Enemy Lines

During the Great War between the Hierarchy and the Alliance, countless battles were fought. The general public is only aware of the heroic fleet battles in which we time and time again routed the heinous aggressors. But a war is not won on brawn alone. We needed every edge we could get, which is where Corridor 9 came in. Working closely with other alliance intelligence agencies, Corridor 9 performed many daring acts of espionage and counter-espionage during the conflict. Hierarchy plans were intercepted, supply lines disrupted and dignitaries assassinated. In order to perform these missions heroes were needed. These brave men, women and creatures penetrated deep behind enemy lines, fighting a shadow war against unspeakable opponents. This is their story.

Weíre going to be playing a turn based game here. Iíll fill the role as dungeon master and move the enemies around, and work all the mechanics whilst you have all the fun. The game has not been tried before, so Iíll do my best to iron out any balance or other kinks as we go along. All questions and comments are welcome in this thread, if you think something could be done better, donít hesitate to suggest. If something is unclear, ask.

Playing the game

The game is a mix of a turn based combat game and a free form exploration game. When no enemies are present, players may perform all kind of actions without doing things in turn. However, when an enemy is spotted the game morphs into turn based combat where movement points and action points are a matter of life and death. the points expended to encounter this creature will be counted, so it is wise to think hard about rounding corners/opening doors.

During combat, each player will post their movements and actions for a given turn, and I will execute them on a first post first served basis. If something unexpected happens, such as an enemy encounter or discovery of a new area, the turn will be paused and players will be allowed to use whatever action points they have left to adapt to the situation. Pausing the turn means that you will once again be in a first post first served situation. The player whose turn has been interrupted is not entitled to continue first. All enemy turns will be executed after the players have moved, and end turn results will be posted after this. This continues until all visible enemies have been destroyed.

In special circumstances specified by the game organizer, the turn system may prevail even though no enemy is visible.

The Map

A simulation map will be provided upon which the general environment and units will be shown. I will update this as you progress. Graphics have been created by Dabir, with some ugly fill ins done by me.

Action points


During combat, action points are what make the game go round. Each player starts a new round with two action points. They can be used for several different things. These are as follow.

Moving

When not in combat, you are free to move wherever you want. If an enemy is encountered during the movement phase, the current movement of the player discovering him will be taken into account. Any players within 5*5 squares of the player who discovers an enemy may opt to sacrifice one action point to move anywhere within this grid. Once combat has ensued, each player can move a set amount of squares each combat turn. Moving the full amount will consume both your action points. Moving half of the amount will consume one action point. If you use your action point for other things, you may no longer move.

Example: If your movement range is 4, moving 1 square will leave you with two action points, moving 2 or three squares will leave you with one and moving 4 squares will leave you with none. However, if you start your turn by opening a door, this uses one action point and you can now only move 2 squares.

Using items

Using an item during combat (such as a medikit, grenade or other) will consume one action point. The same goes for opening doors, switching from one weapon to another and picking something up/looting a corpse.

Example: If your movement range is six and you are standing in front of a door, opening it will consume one action point. This way you have halved your movement range to three. You may now move another three steps or use an item/perform an attack with your remaining point.


Giving

You can give items to your teammates or NPCs. Giving requires an AP during combat, but receiving something does not consume action points.


Combat

Each attack you perform (ranged or close combat) will consume one action point. Defensive action is automatic and does not consume points. One attack is divided into several different strikes, and every strike can potentially cause 1 HP of damage. The amount of strikes your attack produces depends on your weapon and its modifiers. Defensive action is divided into parries. Each parry has the potential to negate one strike. The amount of parries you have depend on your level, armour and other modifiers.

The successfulness of a strike or parry will be determined by rolling a six sided dice, as is described below. You may only attack in straight lines, not diagonally.

Strike:    Each strike is determined by a thrown die. The die has two hits (1-2), two misses (3-4), one friendly fire (5) and one bullseye (6). Friendly fire counts as a miss if no friendly unit is in the line of fire. Bullseye is a non-defensible hit. Only players have bullseyes, as the enemy is not equally well trained. For enemy units, bullseye is counted as a regular hit.

Parry:    Each parry  is determined by a thrown die. The die has two successes (1-2), three fail (3-5) and one stun (6). Stun does not cost HP but means that the player loses one action point during the next turn. Stuns are not cumulative; a second stun will count as a hit. Parries are only rolled after a hit, misses do not need to be parried.

Each successful hit (strike + failed parry) causes a loss of 1 HP

Example: Your movement range is 4, and you begin your turn in front of a door. Using one action point you open the door. This leaves you with one action point and thus your movement range has been halved. Opening the door reveals an enemy inside. If you choose, you can move one step and still have one action point remaining. Or you can use the action point directly. This action point can be used for an attack. Since your weapon entitles you to three strikes, you roll three strike dice and score two hits and a miss. Your opponent is entitled to only one parry die, and scores success. This means that he blocks one of your attacks, but the other one penetrates and gives him -1 HP you have now used up your action points for this turn.

Ranged combat specialities


In ranged combat every weapon has its own range. Some weapons reach as far as you can see, whilst others only affect the immediate surroundings. Ranged weapons consume ammunition, but how depends on weapon type. A ranged automatic weapon will typically consume one bullet per strike dice, while some close combat area weapons will consume one bullet per attack (all strikes). This is specified for every weapon. If an enemy is in contact with you, your ranged strike dice will be affected in a weapon specific way.

You can carry two ranged weapons but only use one at a time. Switching between ranged weapons consumes one action point.

Melee combat specialities

Switching from ranged to melee weapon and back does not consume action points. Moving out of melee range will give your enemy one free strike against which you canít parry against.

Mobbing

Both you and the enemy can mob opponents. This is done by having several players attacking a single target during one turn. As each player only has a set number of parry dice, increasing the amount of strike dice means you'll have more chances to hit him. In melee combat this can only be done by surrounding the target, but for ranged combat you can opt to fire at a target that is behind one of your team mates. You then run the risk of causing "friendly fire", which will inflict -1HP on your ally.

Using Powers

Powers are psychic attacks which some units are capable of. Using a power normally consumes it for an entire scenario, so use it wisely. Using a power will consume one action point. Attack powers normally require line of sight, but other powers may not. This is outlined separately for each power.

Experience

Experience points are gained by killing enemies and solving tasks. Each kill is worth 1 XP, and tasks are worth a varying amount of  XP. Depending on your level, a set number of XP points will bring you to a new level, which gives you a choice of a General, Aggressive or Defensive upgrade. these can then affect your stats, give you new abilities, or something else. It will also heal you

Miscellaneous

Vision

Your characters have a limited range of vision, which is demonstrated by the image below.  Inside this field of vision you can see all characters and objects. Outside it, areas are either unexplored or covered by fog of war.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2s13cx4.png)

Fog of War

When a room or area that has been previously explored is no longer in your field of vision, the room turns grey. This indicates that you cannot see any movement inside this area until you've once again got it in your field of vision. If you discover enemy units or NPC:s in a area, and then withdraw, the map will show the place they had when fog of war fell. If they move under the fog of war, you will not discover this before you return to the area to inspect it again.

Moving large objects

There are many large objects in the game, such as chests and tables. These objects can't be picked up, but they can be moved. They are generally heavy and require cooperation. Once you are standing by an object, you can move in any direction, both pushing, pulling and moving sideways is all right. You'll only need to rotate things to get them in through doors. Objects that are larger than two squares can only be moved by their short ends or the middle of their long side.

If several units are carrying an object together, they must all touch the base of the object. Carrying items like this carries no defence or offence penalties or bonuses.

An objects grid size is used to determine the movement penalties added while a character is moving it (should this be done while action points are in use). If the object covers a single square, the movement penalty is -1 MOV.  If the object spans two squares, the unit loses half of it's MOV (rounded up). Thus a 4 MOV character can only move two squares if it is carrying such an object. If the object is 3 squares, the units movement is reduced to 1. If something is bigger than this, a single unit cannot shift it.

Rotating objects

An object can be rotated by any unit whose base touches the objects base. Rotating an object consumes 1 AP, irregardless of object size. In order to perform a rotation maneuver, the area through which the object is rotated must be clear of other objects or units. The necessary cleared area consists of all squares with which the object makes contact while being rotated. Thus rotating a 1 square object requires that all squares adjacent ot he unit rotating is empty.  Long objects can also be rotated by their wide side.
    

Working together

Several units can work together to move larger objects. The penalties for moving large objects are then reduced to the largest possible penalty. If two units are moving a 2 square object, they can move a maximum of the slower units MOV reduced by one, as each is carrying a square. If they are moving a 3 square object, they can move a maximum of the slower units halved movement range as the slower unit is then counted as carrying two squares.

Destroying objects

Many objects can be destroyed by setting them or fire or hacking them to bits. This is not recommended for a squad of sneaking commandos.

Mission one

For our first game there were four units available, Human, Syreen, Arilou and Shofixti, but Dabir got dibs on Arilou for providing me with graphics. The game went rather well and can be found here (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4379.0).

Mission two

In this game, the available units are M:bot, Arilou, Human and Shofixti. As befits level 2 you are no longer rookies but get to pick one upgrade as well, general, offensive or defensive. This time around, Draxas gets to be the M:bot for providing me with a lot of unit help. Dabir has opted to not play. Ideally Iíd like four players, but Iíll settle for a minimum of three persons, with someone controlling two units. To begin with Iíll hold the spots open for people who havenít played the first mission, but if no interest is shown in 3 days Iíll accept old hands as well.

You are free to make up your own name and back story if you like, otherwise Iíll use your forum names or some derivation thereof. Once everyone has picked their character and upgrade, Iíll post your stats and equipment in this thread and open a new thread for actually playing the game.

Disqualifications

Playing a turn based game on a forum is going to be a real challenge. I will endeavour to update the turns at least twice during the week and once during the weekend, and let you know if there are any slowdowns. I will expect the players to post their new turns within 2-3 days from my update. If a player does not update his status during an entire week (7 days), another player will be given control over his character. If a player wants to, he can transfer control to another player temporarily. If the turn based system can be tweaked donít hesitate to suggest things, I will also do my best to adapt it to real circumstances.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 04, 2010, 01:46:27 pm
So to cut a long story short, this is the current roster:

Draxas: M-bot Guardian (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg62162#msg62162) with Minirocket Tube (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg62167#msg62167)
Angelfish: Shofixti Brave (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg56573#msg56573) with Battlecry (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg58298#msg58298)
Koosemoose: Arilou Spok (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg56546#msg56546). What upgrade?
Son_of_Antares: Human Trooper (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4377.msg56575#msg56575) What upgrade?

A few thing worth noting about this mission is that there is going to be more intense fighting here. I've tried to adapt the rules to cut down on endless turns of waling, you're now lightning fast when the enemy is not around. Also, there'll be a time limit and a few surprises along the way. Oh yeah, and the human is female, at least graphics wise. I'm estimating that three months (give or take) will see us through this. This level is distinctly more action game than adventure RPG, but that doesn't mean you can't RPG if you want to!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on February 04, 2010, 05:02:42 pm
Is our fourth an Arilou or Syreen? Your posts are contradicting each other.

I'll start with an offensive upgrade. I'll post up a character profile when I have some time to think it over.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 04, 2010, 05:40:11 pm
Arilou, dunno where the Syreen came from.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Son_of_Antares on February 05, 2010, 07:35:20 am
All right, finally some action! :D Dibs on the Arilou this time with a defensive upgrade. I'll provide some background story a bit later ^^


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Cedric6014 on February 05, 2010, 07:38:46 am
I dont want to play or anything, but wouldn it be nice to offer any race option to any prospecting players?

I'm sure Dabir could whp up the rquisit sprite for, say, a chenjesu, or a female human


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: SuddenDeath on February 05, 2010, 12:18:34 pm
Perhaps we can have a Chenjesu and Yehat in the next installment :)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on February 05, 2010, 03:50:17 pm
I'm sure Luki has his reasons for disallowing Syreen and Yehat in this mission. However, our current designs for the Chenjesu will feature them only as NPCs, sorry to anyone who wanted to play as a crystalline pacifist in a combat strategy game. ;)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 05, 2010, 05:19:33 pm
All right, finally some action! :D Dibs on the Arilou this time with a defensive upgrade. I'll provide some background story a bit later ^^

Hey Son! unfortunately you missed one thing above. In order to give new people a chance, I'm not accepting old players before Sunday. If the roster isn't full by then, you'll be super-welcome to play. But in fairness to those who hasn't I'm holding spaces for them for the first three days.

I dont want to play or anything, but wouldn it be nice to offer any race option to any prospecting players?

First off, don't worry about being a player or not. This thread is for anyone who wants to comment. I love getting feedback and opinions, it always helps me find new angles. As for your question, there are a few reasons. In-game wise, M:bot and Yehat are going to be a lot rarer than the others. M:bots are a finite resource, and combat M:bots are even rarer. When the mission starts it'll be clear why one has tagged along. As for Yehat, they are big birds. Any mission which features tight quarters is going to be pretty hard for them, as they'll just waddle forward and drg their wings miserably across the floor as the enemy shoots them full of holes. There will be Yehats in the game, but only at a later stage.

Looking for the game from the outside, there are other reasosn for this. The units all have different specialities. If everyone gets to choose I could potentially end up with 4 Arilou or 4 Shofixti, which might make the game impossible or pretty boring at this stage. The whole idea is to work as a group, using each other's strengths and shielding each other from harm.  Think of any game such as this. There's a reason the barbarian usually has an archer or a mage in his group.

Quote
I'm sure Dabir could whp up the rquisit sprite for, say, a chenjesu, or a female human

Dabir has done some great work on this. But he has a life of his own and is quite busy. If I wait until we have all the possible sprites done and all the graphics for all the missions done, it'll be a long wait. It already took a year between the first two missions. And you if anyone should know exactly how much work it is to recruit art talent for fan purposes.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Dabir on February 05, 2010, 05:36:41 pm
As it happens, there IS a female human. Personally, I think it looks better than the male.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 05, 2010, 06:40:14 pm
As it happens, there IS a female human. Personally, I think it looks better than the male.

Yeah, like I stated above there isn't actually a male human at this stage, only a female one. Why? Because in Star Control, your gender doesn't matter!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Son_of_Antares on February 05, 2010, 07:39:57 pm
@Luki: Oh, I did miss that part; my bad then :P I was just so super excited when I saw SC: BEL 1.1 topic this morning before going out that I didn't even get to read the OP properly, I just had to sign in...but playing or spectating, whichever it will be, I'm going to enjoy it very much! :D


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Koosemose on February 06, 2010, 08:02:56 am
I'd love to get in on this, this time around, though I don't often post I'm usually stop by here once every day or two, and participating in something such as this I will actually have a good reason to post. I'm not really sure what I want to play, so consider me a floater and give me whatever unit is left over. Though now that I think of it I'd prefer to avoid human female, as I'm a fairly heavy roleplayer, and roleplaying the opposite gender usually gets a bit strange.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 06, 2010, 09:10:26 am
I'd love to get in on this, this time around, though I don't often post I'm usually stop by here once every day or two, and participating in something such as this I will actually have a good reason to post. I'm not really sure what I want to play, so consider me a floater and give me whatever unit is left over. Though now that I think of it I'd prefer to avoid human female, as I'm a fairly heavy roleplayer, and roleplaying the opposite gender usually gets a bit strange.

Fair enough, you're in as whatever gets left over, be it Human Female or not. Welcome aboard!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on February 07, 2010, 03:39:49 am
I'm usually a fairly agressive player, so if you could pass a shofixti with an offensive upgrade to me, that'd be swell :).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Cedric6014 on February 07, 2010, 07:10:26 am
But he has a life of his own and is quite busy.


Pffft!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 07, 2010, 09:09:41 am
I'm usually a fairly agressive player, so if you could pass a shofixti with an offensive upgrade to me, that'd be swell :).

Shofixti it is. Since that leaves human and Arilou, Koosemoose is now our Arilou. Please let me know what your upgrade is Koosemoose!

So only human left to go.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 07, 2010, 10:10:12 am
For Arilou and Shofixti players, note that your weapons have had a slight redesign. They now have a maximum range of 10 squares and the clip size is 12 bullets instead of 25.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: SuddenDeath on February 07, 2010, 12:16:42 pm
However, our current designs for the Chenjesu will feature them only as NPCs, sorry to anyone who wanted to play as a crystalline pacifist in a combat strategy game. ;)

Hmm, pacifist? They do fight in space, so that shouldn't stop them from doing the same on the ground.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 07, 2010, 12:41:23 pm
Hmm, pacifist? They do fight in space, so that shouldn't stop them from doing the same on the ground.

Pushing buttons in a spaceship is pretty different from being down here on the floor, among the blood and death, among the smoke of gunpowder and the cries of the wounded.

Besides, they're huge and slow. At best they could be shields.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 07, 2010, 01:56:05 pm
Okay, since no one else has volunteered and the three day barrier is bust, Son is now our human. What upgrade would you like Son?

I'll launch the adventure this evening, so in 6 hours or so so you can get an idea of what is waiting. once we've got the upgrades and names straightened out, we're good to go.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 07, 2010, 08:37:31 pm
As there is a time limit in this mission, a slight clarification. Turns are counted when you are in combat, ie when you have to use MOV and so forth. The time between combat is counted as just a single turn, as you're quick fellows running wildly around.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on February 08, 2010, 12:06:20 am
Hmm, looks like I'm left with choosing a name for my shofixti.
"Wajangtoey" it is then :). He featured as a weapons officer in a fanfic I wrote 11 years ago (Return of the Builders)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Son_of_Antares on February 08, 2010, 01:50:41 am
Great! Hunam it is! With a defensive upgrade tvm :) And make it a human gal (female sprite) for the sake of diversity, if possible.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 08, 2010, 08:22:43 pm
I'd love to get in on this, this time around, though I don't often post I'm usually stop by here once every day or two, and participating in something such as this I will actually have a good reason to post. I'm not really sure what I want to play, so consider me a floater and give me whatever unit is left over. Though now that I think of it I'd prefer to avoid human female, as I'm a fairly heavy roleplayer, and roleplaying the opposite gender usually gets a bit strange.

Okay KooseMoose, pick your upgrade and we're ready to roll.

I'm going to have to go on an unscheduled trip on Thursday, so I'd like to get us into action before that.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Koosemose on February 08, 2010, 11:10:10 pm
I think I'll try out a Defensive upgrade on the Arilou... and it may take me a bit to come up with a name... I'll follow up with that as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Koosemose on February 08, 2010, 11:31:05 pm
ahh I'll be lazy and use something based on my handle...

Koosaloo sounds good.... :)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 09, 2010, 06:31:05 am
Excelent. When I come home from work this evening we are go then!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Dabir on February 09, 2010, 11:49:12 pm
As always, properly-proportioned, original-sized versions of nearly everything seen so far in this mission and the last can be found here (http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m10/dabir/Behind%20Enemy%20Lines/). GFX will be added as they are encountered.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on February 10, 2010, 10:55:51 pm
As always, properly-proportioned, original-sized versions of nearly everything seen so far in this mission and the last can be found here (http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m10/dabir/Behind%20Enemy%20Lines/). GFX will be added as they are encountered.

That M-bot looks incredible :D


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on February 19, 2010, 05:56:54 pm
I have a little suggestion for the next installment of BEL, if it will be - intelligence briefing.
I am absolutely positive that Alliance intelligence has the layout of the Intruder, why weren't trhe operatives informed ?
Definately the position and amount of crew is unknown, but the rooms should be the same.
This way the tactics and doors positions could be discussed early in a game and the mission itself would be much more straightforward.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 19, 2010, 06:03:52 pm
I have a little suggestion for the next installment of BEL, if it will be - intelligence briefing.
I am absolutely positive that Alliance intelligence has the layout of the Intruder, why weren't trhe operatives informed ?
Definately the position and amount of crew is unknown, but the rooms should be the same.
This way the tactics and doors positions could be discussed early in a game and the mission itself would be much more straightforward.

This is a good point. Perhaps this Intruder is specially modified to transport a prisoner? Or maybe early Intruders vary compared to those produced later on in the war, at least internally. We know the Spathi upgraded their ship from a Discriminator class to Eluder class. Perhaps similar internal changes have been performed on the Intruder.

The out of game reason is that it'd spoil certain surprises that will appear later on though. But I'll keep this in mind for later missions.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on February 19, 2010, 09:02:44 pm
I suppose you could do something vague and slightly spoilerish akin to the paper starmap that came with SC2. But really, most of the time it's just more fun to let the players explore for themselves.

In a timed mission like this one, however... Still, I think it's fair not to provide a map.


Title: Recruiting ho!
Post by: Lukipela on February 23, 2010, 08:27:47 pm
So we're looking for a fourth now that Son has ducked out. Are YOU up for the challenge?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on February 23, 2010, 11:06:38 pm
I think I could temporarilly take his place, if it is allright with everybody.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 24, 2010, 06:12:15 pm
That depends on what you mean with temporary. If you mean "temporary, until Son returns" then you don't have to abdicate the game to him. He hadn't even started, so the spot is yours if you want it.

If you mean "temporary, I'll play for a week or two" then I'm a bit more worried. That'd leave us having to find a new player shortly again.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on February 24, 2010, 07:01:24 pm
I meant the first option.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on February 24, 2010, 07:23:44 pm
I meant the first option.

In that case, welcome aboard soldier! The human female is all yours.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on February 25, 2010, 11:03:03 pm
Could you add like a no-detail mini-map of the Intruder with our very rough location? I think the team at least knows where they infiltrated from and to what direction...


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: meep-eep on March 06, 2010, 11:59:17 am
(http://www.stack.nl/~svdb/sc2/vuxhuman.png)
Wait... what? Is that a VUX-human hybrid? Was Zarla involved?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 06, 2010, 12:24:45 pm
Could you add like a no-detail mini-map of the Intruder with our very rough location? I think the team at least knows where they infiltrated from and to what direction...

This is a brilliant idea and is done, as you noticed. Sorry for not replying earlier, things have been a bit busy around here.

Meep: That's a very PG-13 way of looking at that picture. I think Zarla might have a very different interpretation ;)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on March 06, 2010, 08:30:36 pm
One improvement that Dragon Age: Origins made over its spiritual predecessor Neverwinter Nights is the party inventory.. perhaps a good idea to include one in the next run? Saves a lot of bookkeeping, and in combat you can still deduct AP for equipping stuff or using stuff from the shared inventory ;).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 06, 2010, 09:22:17 pm
That's an itneresting idea. I was working on a better inventory when I decided to just go ahead and launch this since it had been a year already. Thanks for the idea!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 13, 2010, 10:50:18 am
As you may have noticed, I'm sort of trying to add some more action that "Open door, kill enemies" to the game at hand. there's still plenty of evildoers to slay of course, but there's plenty of other stuff as well. Is this a good or a bad thing? Would you prefer more of a Xcom tactical game with just shooting, or maybe even less shooting and more "adventure game puzzles"?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Dabir on March 13, 2010, 02:05:53 pm
Uploading the full-size graphics has been difficult recently as photobucket have hidden their upload button, but as soon as I get home I'll start hunting.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on March 13, 2010, 02:40:37 pm
I would prefer less shooting and more exploring and figuring things out.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on March 13, 2010, 02:46:16 pm
As you may have noticed, I'm sort of trying to add some more action that "Open door, kill enemies" to the game at hand. there's still plenty of evildoers to slay of course, but there's plenty of other stuff as well. Is this a good or a bad thing? Would you prefer more of a Xcom tactical game with just shooting, or maybe even less shooting and more "adventure game puzzles"?

I'd like some more roleplaying, and more story depth :).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on March 13, 2010, 02:48:37 pm
Oh, and less cheating!
We're inside a foreign ship, there's no god to ask what will happen when we shoot the limpets or the walls :D. If it's not provided then there was no intelligence on that beforehand. So we need to try to find out!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on March 13, 2010, 03:01:27 pm
Here's a cheat for you - we return to the shuttle, suit up in EVA suits and use my shotgun to punch holes in the ship. Ship decompresses, all crew dies. Chenjesu don't breathe, we're prepared. Game over. Victory.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 13, 2010, 04:26:03 pm
Here's a cheat for you - we return to the shuttle, suit up in EVA suits and use my shotgun to punch holes in the ship. Ship decompresses, all crew dies. Chenjesu don't breathe, we're prepared. Game over. Victory.

Good luck not getting detected while you cruise around and piercing the hull of an armed starship capable of sucking up the damage from a multitude of very scary weapons (inluding Nukes, giant crystal shards and missiles) with your puny shotgun ;)

But noted, less shooty (although there will still be shooty) and I'll put in some of the stuff I was weighing back and forth on including. As for story depth, what do you think I am, Shakespeare? I'll do my best though.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on March 13, 2010, 05:11:29 pm
You don't need to be shakespeare :D. It was just a suggestion.. perhaps making some dramatic plot evolve during the course of this game, like for example is the case in mass effect :).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 13, 2010, 05:26:18 pm
You don't need to be shakespeare :D. It was just a suggestion.. perhaps making some dramatic plot evolve during the course of this game, like for example is the case in mass effect :).

Well, there is a dramatic plot involving rescuing an Admiral here, but I don't think my script or writing ability is on the level of Mas Effect :) Still I'll do my humble best.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on March 13, 2010, 06:40:56 pm
I think a balance of exploration and combat is best. However, if you do add puzzles, make sure we don't wind up in Resident Evil territory (weird, out of place, ridiculously complex, and lacking hints). For example, while puzzle rooms might be (somewhat) appropriate for defending temple rooms in the previous mission in the Ilwrath temple (though Ilwrath don't strike me as the puzzley type), they really have no place on board a prison ship.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on March 13, 2010, 09:11:56 pm
Why not? here's a very simple example - you find a note saying Umgah scientist borrowed some part you need. Then you find lockers marked "ROX", "G'tulko" , "Moolah". Each one with different locks. Which one would you pursue? I think this could happen on a ship.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on March 16, 2010, 09:46:13 pm
There are no "Get A, put it into B and move it to C" puzzles. Those take up too much time, and we're trying to move forward here. There are some smaller events lined up though, should you trigger them.

Also, I'm back so we're on.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Dabir on March 16, 2010, 10:40:47 pm
Now uploading full-size console pic, plus Spathi. Protip: check out the sceen on the right.

EDIT: Er, on second thoughts, just check out the screen on the right on the map, all the props for this level are in one file and I don't feel like chopping it up.


Title: throwing
Post by: Alvarin on April 06, 2010, 10:10:05 pm
Yeah, throwing distances are kind of small... I estimate a grid square to be 1.5 meters, so the mighty Shofixti can throw a regular 400 grams grenade to only like 6 meters... Right...


Title: throwing
Post by: Angelfish on April 06, 2010, 10:11:16 pm
Yeah, throwing distances are kind of small... I estimate a grid square to be 1.5 meters, so the mighty Shofixti can throw a regular 400 grams grenade to only like 6 meters... Right...

Don't make fun of me! *bitchslap*


Title: throwing
Post by: Draxas on April 07, 2010, 05:13:25 pm
Low celings?

It's a game balance issue. Do you really want to be able to (and have the enemies also) throw grenades the entire length of the ship?


Title: throwing
Post by: Angelfish on April 07, 2010, 05:15:54 pm
Low celings?

It's a game balance issue. Do you really want to be able to (and have the enemies also) throw grenades the entire length of the ship?

grenades are rollable ;)


Title: throwing
Post by: Alvarin on April 07, 2010, 05:29:36 pm
From the game I'd estimate my STR to be 3.5 or so. I am able to throw a grenade accurately for about 20~25 meters. In my personal case it would be about STR*6, which is really too high for the game purpose (Human and M-bot 24 squares, Spathi 30...) but about 10 squares should be reasonable, I think...


Title: throwing
Post by: Draxas on April 08, 2010, 03:22:48 am
The key word there is "accurately." Remember that no attack rolls are necessary for grenades, so short ranges balance that out somewhat.


Title: throwing
Post by: Angelfish on April 08, 2010, 11:48:45 am
And now we're drifting into OOC territory :D


Title: throwing
Post by: Lukipela on April 08, 2010, 06:19:36 pm
And now we're drifting into OOC territory :D

Indeed. Stuff moved. Anyway, the Shofixti is a close combat warrior. Having him be able to strike at a large distance would be bothersome. But I agree that the throwing distance might need to be raised a bit.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 12, 2010, 12:33:20 pm
2 comments:
1) The arilou character is pretty useless for most of the game, and I imagine it's pretty boring to play too. Up till now it has done nothing more than sit in the back while the others do the work.
2) Why don't we use party XP? This also helps if somewhere during the next games you add real support characters to the game, for example characters that can debuff, buff or heal, but generally don't really do damage.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on April 12, 2010, 12:42:27 pm
The arilow has huge arsenal, but due to very low stats can't use the powers he has.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on April 12, 2010, 03:54:49 pm
Arilou needs some severe disadvantages in order to balance out its huge arsenal of very powerful PSI abilities, which means he's slow, squishy, and weak in standard combat (much like the typical squishy wizard archtype he's based on). The particular circumstance we're in right now unfortunately exaggerates the effects of a low MOV score, with everyone trying to play catch-up down that long hallway. In a more typical room setup (and especially when there are "boss" type enemies around), he really shines.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 12, 2010, 04:10:25 pm
Arilou needs some severe disadvantages in order to balance out its huge arsenal of very powerful PSI abilities, which means he's slow, squishy, and weak in standard combat (much like the typical squishy wizard archtype he's based on). The particular circumstance we're in right now unfortunately exaggerates the effects of a low MOV score, with everyone trying to play catch-up down that long hallway. In a more typical room setup (and especially when there are "boss" type enemies around), he really shines.

That's what I guessed, that he's your typical D&D wizard..
But right now, the arilou char doesn't really seem to fit the mission. I wonder why we brought him along :D.
He needs some other spells and perhaps some redesign to make him worthwhile. Have him cast 'unprepared spells' such as buffs or debuffs in battle, perhaps even heal, to make him feel less useless ;)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 12, 2010, 07:43:19 pm
Koosemoose played the Arilou much more aggressively than Dabir last mission, which means he's managed several kills of his own so far. But he may still be underpowered, or at least unbalanced. Not a big fan of the party XP system, but at the very least I think the general XP system may need to get an overhaul for next mission.

Thanks for your comments, it really helps me when players give frank input!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 12, 2010, 10:33:41 pm
I personally don't really see what's wrong with party XP, aslong as you add a good system to it (ie. only give XP to units in combat, divide XP by the number of units in combat, establish target levels and diminish XP for lower level kills.)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on April 13, 2010, 08:09:08 pm
I personally don't see any need for XP in this type of game - I really don't think any character will level up in this scenario (as it should be- not nearly enough happening to warrant level-up) and the exp. points are kind of... what for?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 13, 2010, 08:13:23 pm
I personally don't see any need for XP in this type of game - I really don't think any character will level up in this scenario (as it should be- not nearly enough happening to warrant level-up) and the exp. points are kind of... what for?

I think it's relevant for the next missions in which these characters will participate ;).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 13, 2010, 08:30:33 pm
I personally don't really see what's wrong with party XP, aslong as you add a good system to it (ie. only give XP to units in combat, divide XP by the number of units in combat, establish target levels and diminish XP for lower level kills.)

That's part of it I think. A good XP system that doesn't require me to add another 10 minutes a day to this by sitting and dividing/calculating XP rates isn't going to be easy to come up with the current system is simple, but as you say it is also flawed. There's some thinking to be done here, especially on support units and XP.

I personally don't see any need for XP in this type of game - I really don't think any character will level up in this scenario (as it should be- not nearly enough happening to warrant level-up) and the exp. points are kind of... what for?

Well, the original idea was to collect XP so that you'd gain abilities, but I think I overdid the XP required for next level. Some other things you can do/could have done will also net you XP though, so you might still see some upgrades! In the end of course, one of my aims is to release all the material at some stage to let others do as they please with it, perhaps playing campaigns where XP will be much more interesting.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 13, 2010, 09:01:58 pm
Releasing it would be a great idea luki, so perhaps we can have more games going on at the same time :D. Perhaps also one game effecting the other if multiple missions happen in the same SC-time.
I don't think it'll be 10 minutes extra each day, because we don't kill that much, and you can easily automate such a calculation in excel.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 13, 2010, 09:35:33 pm
Releasing it would be a great idea luki, so perhaps we can have more games going on at the same time :D. Perhaps also one game effecting the other if multiple missions happen in the same SC-time.

That would be pretty cool :) But yeah, the ultimate goal is that when I have a GFX library, and excel file full of units, a rules document and some automated excel calculations I'll simply zip it up and make it downloadable while crediting Draxas and Dabir for their amazing work of course.

Quote
I don't think it'll be 10 minutes extra each day, because we don't kill that much, and you can easily automate such a calculation in excel.

You're probably right, got any good links to different sorts of party XP systems that you think are good/useful?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on April 17, 2010, 04:39:19 am
Luki, you didn't specify how many charges are in a Power Baton.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 19, 2010, 10:18:29 pm
Luki, you didn't specify how many charges are in a Power Baton.

Whoops, fixed now.

Also, any onlooker interested in the Arilou? speak now or forever hold your peace.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Zieman on April 19, 2010, 11:36:32 pm
Also, any onlooker interested in the Arilou? speak now or forever hold your peace.
I could take over the Arilou.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 20, 2010, 06:40:26 pm
Great, you're hired! Welcome aboard!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on April 23, 2010, 09:59:50 am
Are we on turn 19? It is really hard to follow with partial movements...


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 23, 2010, 01:55:53 pm
perhaps for the next game it's a good idea to introduce a time limit. ie. 2 or 3 days per turn. if you don't do anything, the turn passes and the enemies get their moves :Y


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on April 23, 2010, 02:09:48 pm
That might be a problem because of GameMaster's offline demands.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on April 23, 2010, 03:59:57 pm
It also creates the need to make very elaborate contingency plans, eg. "I want to move W W, then wait for the Shofixti to attack. If he kills the opponent, I want to go N and shoot the Spathi, if he doesn't hit at all I want to use Mayhem on his target, if he hits once but doesn't kill it I want to use Psychic Blast...) etc. etc. etc. Now imgine poor Luki trying to make sense of 4 posts written like that. Partial turns may slow the game down some, but it keeps things less confusing in the long run.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 23, 2010, 04:38:44 pm
That might be a problem because of GameMaster's offline demands.

The next turn is always triggered by the game master, so it's his choice.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 23, 2010, 04:44:24 pm
It also creates the need to make very elaborate contingency plans, eg. "I want to move W W, then wait for the Shofixti to attack. If he kills the opponent, I want to go N and shoot the Spathi, if he doesn't hit at all I want to use Mayhem on his target, if he hits once but doesn't kill it I want to use Psychic Blast...) etc. etc. etc. Now imgine poor Luki trying to make sense of 4 posts written like that. Partial turns may slow the game down some, but it keeps things less confusing in the long run.

Ofcourse not. Turns will happen ast they now, but the game master will end the turn after a fixed time. Characters who haven't acted in time will be considered 'idle' for that turn.
Besides, if you play if then else games you're not really roleplaying anymore ;).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Draxas on April 24, 2010, 09:12:34 pm
Besides, if you play if then else games you're not really roleplaying anymore ;).

That's why this is, first and foremost, a strategy game. ;)


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on April 28, 2010, 03:57:48 am
Luki - what are the Admiral stats? Kind of important to know how much it takes, especially with the execution orders.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Angelfish on April 28, 2010, 05:56:52 pm
Luki - what are the Admiral stats? Kind of important to know how much it takes, especially with the execution orders.

up up down down left right left right B A start :).


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on April 28, 2010, 06:20:13 pm
No update today, we have guests. Admiral stats coming tomorrow.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Koosemose on May 06, 2010, 04:24:07 am
Sorry I disappeared for so long with no warning, haven't had internet for a while and didn't have any warning that I was going to lose it and just recently got occasional access back... hope you all found a replacement and that my disappearance didn't cause to many issues...


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on May 06, 2010, 07:50:16 pm
Sorry I disappeared for so long with no warning, haven't had internet for a while and didn't have any warning that I was going to lose it and just recently got occasional access back... hope you all found a replacement and that my disappearance didn't cause to many issues...

I'm sorry that whatever your life situation you were in limited your net access so badly. It's generally fine to drop out if you just give advance warning, but even though you couldn't there are of course no hard feelings. Hope you'll enjoy following the rest of the game!


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on June 03, 2010, 08:50:34 pm
Luki - a question about Bonecrusher - Can I choose the blunt side to stun instead of  kill?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on June 03, 2010, 09:17:32 pm
Luki - a question about Bonecrusher - Can I choose the blunt side to stun instead of  kill?

Sorry, no. It's too heavy too use like that. Once the blunt side connects, it's pretty likely to crush something.


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on June 10, 2010, 02:31:36 pm
Another good question posed by Zieman - does using powers consume AP?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Lukipela on June 10, 2010, 06:59:03 pm
Is this a trick question or something? Powers consume 1 AP, and always have. We've used them ingame and all I think. Or did I mess something up?


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on June 10, 2010, 07:02:56 pm
No, more likely me. The powers used were deployed in free time...


Title: Re: Star Control: Behind Enemy Lines v1.1
Post by: Alvarin on June 21, 2010, 10:46:37 pm
I really enjoyed the game!
The only one thing I have against it is the mid-battle planning and takebacks. I think strategies can be thought before contact, but then everyone should just act his character.