The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Hello,

I was looking around on this forum and read some talk about star maps for Star Control II.
I found a very nice map for it, "sc2finalmap.png" which I can view on Mac OS's "Preview" program.
However, in order to read it, I have to zoom in quite a bit.  That's not such a problem but it would be
nice if I had a hard copy where I can check off stars I have visited so I don't go the same place twice.

The aliens are fairly easy to remember, but the stars are not so easy.  I suppose I could l just write out
a list of each star's name that I visit.  It would be nice, though, if I just had a really big hard copy that's
easy to read and check visited places.  Actually several copies would be nice.

Is there a way to buy it from some where?  I would need a color printer and maybe photo paper to make
a print out and then I wouldn't know how to blow it up so everything's legible.

Also, is there a good map for Star Control I?  I was thinking of downloading Star Control 3.  It's really
not about the price, because if I pay to download Star Control I, I can get Star Control 3 also as long
as it's the same day.  However, from the horror stories I've been hearing, I think I'll just go with I & II.

Thanks!

BYE.

Star control 1 maps are 3D and different for each scenario, so I don't think you can get a printed map for that.
For UQM there is also a list of all stars, that you could use, but that contains spoilers.
About SC3 - it's not that bad if you don't have your expectations hight and manage to dodge event sequence breaks.


EDIT: links
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/List_of_constellations - spoler free - good for finding where you are pointed to by aliens.

That reminds me; by Luki's request, I started work on an SVG backend for the starmap generator a few weeks ago. There are a few minor issues to iron out, but I think I could post it soon. You could use it to easily generate a map adapted for cheap printing (e.g. with a white background instead of black).

Who's selling the Star Control series for download?

Hello,

I would be interested in the map with a white background.

"Who is selling Star Control?"
You may wish to Google "abandonware", MyAbandonware.com I think and "Abandonware + Star Control" or
"Abandonware + something else".

http://<illegal download site>/star_control_1.html
http://<illegal download site>/star_control_3.html

The games are actually free.  You're paying for the service for their maintaining the download site.

What is SVG?

My concern with printing is that you'd might want something bigger than 8 1/2" x 11"?

I've played the game so much I'm not worried about spoilers (SC2 I mean)

What do you mean, 3D maps for SC 1?
Maybe I will try downloading SC 3 after all?

Thank you so much for all your help!

BYE.



Moderator edit: Removed links to illegal download site.

Star Control 1 had not a flat surface map, but rotating "galaxy" of stars.
It would be very hard to accurately represent the spheroid cluster for printing...
In addition, there were so little srats in each scenario, that I don't think it is at all necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0M2Ftf6ho
That's SC1 review. The starmap is at about 3:30 onward.

Also with regards to SC1 and it's star maps.  Unfortunately TfB no longer have the original source code to SC1 which includes the rather nifty random star position and link generator.  I took a stab at reverse engineering it a couple of years ago but didn't try very hard.  Zeracles has since provided an algorithm (http://star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=42&start=5) that generates SC1 style starmaps, complete with connections and clusters (Yay!).  As Alvarin said it'd be very hard to print the 3D representation and each map is only be valid for one scenario (and the games are fairly short).

I see. I was hoping you'd found a legitimate reseller, not someone who's charging for the same unlicensed copy you can get for free elsewhere (see your own search results).

Scalable Vector Graphics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics).

One of the reasons for the map generator is to make it easy to produce maps adapted to different paper sizes.

Both SC1 and SC3 use 3D maps; in the game, they are shown as a rotating mass of stars.

Not big enough to suit you, but this has a white background, and might even be useful for figuring out optimal routes ;D

(http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~asmith/files/sc1/starmap4.jpg)

The SC2 stars joined by a pseudo-delaunay tessellation, to emulate SC1's links for Dragon's awesome remake. I can provide the postscript original to anyone who wants it. Also, this morning I went most of the way toward implementing a simplified version of Death 999's idea for doing something similar.

Maybe you'd also find this page (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/QuasiSpace) useful.

Hello,

I was not aware that the copy I found was illegal?  Thanks for telling me.
I thought the whole point behind "abandonware" is that they don't care anymore about trying to sell/maintain it?

Is there a legal way to get "Star Control 1" and/or "Star Control 3"?
I'm more interested in "Star Control 1" from what I've been hearing.

BYE.

Unfortunately "abandonware" isn't a legal term.  A game can be officially 'abandoned' if the copyright holder puts it in the public domain but that very seldom happens.  More often the copyright holder ceases to pursue copyright infringements on old software that has no commercial interest.  Occasionally it's uncertain who the copyright holder actually is - as companies are bought and sold then who actually holds the copyright can become confused.

Unlike trademarks, copyrights cannot be lost by not exercising them (in any copyright system I'm aware of). In other words, it's still infringement even if nobody sells it.

While you can make a reasonable claim that the copyright holder is not hurt by abandonware distribution (as a counterargument, consider that the copyright holder may reintroduce a game, as Nintendo have done with their Virtual Console), that still doesn't make it legal.

The site you linked to actually doesn't distribute the games themselves; it just charges you to tell you where you can download them ("Additionally, we don't store any software on our server. "; main page). Technically, I suppose this means the maintainers of the site aren't actually committing copyright infringement themselves, just helping others do so.

Resale of an existing legal copy is almost always legal. However, that means someone has to be willing to part with their copy. I was hoping you'd found a better solution.

Hello,

Copyright means that only the creator can copy it, whether or not it is for sale.  So far as re-releasing things, I think of TV Land on
cable television.  They air shows that originally aired a long time ago.  There are people who have never seen such television
and maybe people who don't mind watching certain shows again.  Folks in TV Land shows still get rewards.  Also, the internet
allows for more storage so people can see other things.  There aren't many new shows on TV and the ones that are on TV
have an increasing web presence.  The larger number of channels has given more choices to people.  PBS is really
expanding, I hear.

Well, there are only so many new TV shows, so many old TV shows.  Renting, buying and checking out DVDs from the store and from the library makes it cheap to watch a lot of movies.  After seeing a lot of them on TV or in a DVD player, the movies run out, just
like the new & old TV shows.  After all, there is only enough time in prime time anyway.  There seems to be more fluff on cable TV and people are gradually spending more time in front of a computer than a TV, especially with newer computers that you can watch
TV programs On Demand (when you want to see it).

I like to read hard copy newspapers and get used to waiting a certain day or time for a new show being released on screens everywhere.

Anyway, what they say about copyright is that the laws really haven't changed much over the years, it's just easier with all
the electronics capable of easily sharting great deals of information.

Sorry I don't know anybody who has "Star Control 1" or "Star Control 3", never mind the part about would they be willing to sell it/them
to me.  I am disappointed that the link I found is an illegal download.  I found them using Google.

Does anyone know how I can get a licensed copy of either or both games?

Thanks.

You can look on Amazon and eBay, but it won't be cheap and it probably will take some work to get it to run on your machine.

Hello,


How expensive do you think Star Control 1 and/or Star Control 3 would be off eBay or Amazon.com?  With the kind of backwards compatibility XP lacks, maybe I should get a 286, but it would be hard to find and I don't have a lot of room in my apartment for another computer  :(

Maybe DOS Box would work but I fear I lack the ability of getting it to work.

Thanks anyway.

BYE.

Just do a search on the sites for Star Control. If someone's selling it, you'll find it. Just make sure you're looking at the PC version and not the Genesis version (unless you happen to have a Genesis).

Hello,

Thanks for the heads up.  I have found that most of my web surfing with my PC is full of bugs and insecurities.  I bought security software some time ago and it's surely outdated and there seems to be plenty of people able and willing to make simple tasks a problem to do.
So I don't surf with my PC much, which takes away the fun of things because there are a lot of interesting programs on  PCs.

This computer is a Mac which I find is much more reliable on the internet.

Sega Genesis systems used to sell for $200 I don't know what they sell for now.  I know a pawn shop in town that would sell it to me, but I don't like the idea of buying a console for just one game ... except maybe one or two.

BYE.

SVG backend code added to Bugzilla as feature request #1100 (https://bugs.uqm.stack.nl/show_bug.cgi?id=1100). Using the standard starmap data, the output looks like this (http://koti.mbnet.fi/lonnberg/starmap.svg).

Hello,

I looked at the links and do not know what to do with this?!?!

Thanks?

BYE.

Well, the map is a map (although some web browsers may not be able to display it). The feature request in the bug database contains the changes to the map generator source code to add SVG support, which is primarily of interest to developers, who can then compile the map generator for their respective systems and use it to generate maps in SVG format instead of just PNG.

The SVG-based map should be easy to edit in something like Inkscape (http://inkscape.org/).

Hello,

The map only had circles where the aliens "live".  Someone on this forum told me what SVG stood for and that didn't mean anything to me.  I suppose somewhere I could download the open source load as I hear it is open domain now.  However, I don't having a programming language in Mac or in a modern PC.  I am familiar with Borland's Turbo Pascal 6.0 for DOS and Turbo C++ 3.0 for DOS as compilers (I find that Assembler is easier than C++).  I've had a bit of experience with Java and Visual Basic in community college.  However, all these
programming environments are for PCs and I use a Mac laptop to access the internet.  I have a Mac tower not connected to the internet to play Star Control II.

SVG is a superior graphic format?

I want to try to print a map bigger than 8 1/2" x 11".  I asked a computer guru of mine and am considering asking a librarian at a public library, since my printer doesn't work and I don't know how to print over sized maps like that, especially with all the details and hopefully a white background for easy reading and less ink (cheaper).  I know for a fact they have maps that would be helpful, if not perfect in helping, and I have several places on Wikipedia I can print up information that would help, even though this other information isn't just maps.  It's Ok to print Wikipedia articles, right?  If I try printing at the public library, I will ask the librarian.

Thanks I'll try lnkscape.

BYE.

Hello,

Oops, it's "inkscape" not "lnkscape"!  I do not know German and that looks like a lot of that site is in German.  I don't think this will help me much since I don't know how to use your "bug database".

Thanks anyway,

BYE.

Java is well supported on Mac, but that won't help you in this case, since the map generator is written in C. You'd probably want to use the GNU development tools (GCC and suchlike) for anything related to UQM, as it's what many of the developers use and free. I don't have a Mac, so it would be difficult for me to provide a Mac executable.

The relevant point here is that SVG is a vector graphics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics) format, while PNG is a raster graphics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics) format.

Printing a large map is no problem with the right printer. You may find commercial printing services (sometimes connected to copying or photography shops) that are willing to print a poster for you. Universities often have poster printers, in my experience, but that probably won't help you if you're not a student or faculty. In any case, most of these services want a PDF or PostScript file (which can easily be generated from SVG using Inkscape). As I said, you can either edit the map I provided in e.g. Inkscape or modify the map generator's map definition files to produce a new map with a different colour scheme.

Hello,

I remember Windows 3.1 had PostScript and TrueType fonts.  The PostScript was raster, if I have my facts straight, a bunch of pixels, where a vector is "drawn".  I glanced at the Wikipedia file you mentioned and vector and graphics have their strengths and weaknesses
based on what you want to do.

I saw the word "GNU" once, referencing somebody's version of chess on the computer.  GCC: GNU Commandline Compiler?
Are we still talking PCs here or is GNU something in Linux/UNIX?  These development tools are free?  Where can I get them if I decide I want them?

I think I know a place that may be able to print up a poster sized Star Control II map.

I found several people offering Sega Genesis' "Star Control" relatively cheap.  I wouldn't have to worry about having an older computer.

I graduated with a Bachelor's Degree some time ago.  I went to a junior college before then that's in town, but I don't know if they will be willing or able to help me in the library since I'm now an alumni.

I'm a bit intimidated using something I've never seen before and is not immediately self-explanatory (converting my map using Inkscape).  I learned a bit about how databases are made in school for MS Access in MS Office.  I don't query databases on the internet and truthfully never had a use for a database.  I have a movie collection which I was thinking of cataloging.

Maybe the printer would know what to do?

Thanks for all the help!

BYE.

PostScript is more like a programming language with a vector graphics output. It supports both vector and raster graphics and fonts (generally speaking, many vector formats, such as SVG, allow you to include raster graphics, such as PNG). Raster fonts were commonly used on PCs up to the early 90s because they are much faster and simpler to draw.

Exactly. For our purposes, the important ones are that vector graphics are easier to edit and provide a compact, resolution-independent representation of stuff that we have on starmaps.

GNU ("GNU's Not Unix") is essentially a collection of free (in both senses) software. GCC ("GNU Compiler Collection", formerly "GNU C Compiler") is their compiler. GCC is available for pretty much any system you've heard of.

Again, I can't give specific advice for Mac. Most Linux distributions are so heavily based on GNU software that some are actually called "GNU/Linux". For Windows, MinGW (http://mingw.org) is the simplest choice, although CygWin (http://cygwin.com) is more versatile.

If nobody else is interested, I'll see if I can take the time to produce a nice and convenient PDF file for you; it would probably help many others. By the way, do you want a spoiler-free map (the equivalent of what was included with SC2 in its original releases) or something with more stuff? I can do the former pretty quick since I already have the coordinates and everything. I'd also need to know the size you want.

Hello,

Thanks for offering help on the star map for SC2.  You said that vector graphics would be helpful for what we're trying to do.  I'm not worried about spoiling anything, because I know a great deal about this game.  I like the file I found "sc2finalmap.png" (do you recognize this file?  I got it somewhere on the internet, perhaps on Wikipedia).

Oh, here's the link.  I hope this is a legal link?!?!
http://img26.imageshack.us/i/sc2finalmap.png/

My guess is that this would be considered a "spoiler".  I can play with less spoilers, but it takes a lot longer to solve the game.  More importantly, the Kohr-Ah kill everybody if you take too long.  It's happened to me, I didn't know you could actually lose this game.

I'm thinking of buying SC1 on eBay for Sega Genesis.  The TV is bigger (though I admit it has worse graphics) and the fewer games I have on my computer the fewer bugs I have.  It's good to be familiar with a piece of software to a certain extent so you know how games interact with your system.

I would need help reinstating my Linux system, which a friend installed and I know very little about.  I have less enthusiasm these days with Microsoft, so I am willing to give Linux a try and read about it a bit.  It's either a dual boot on my current hard drive or on a hard drive not hooked up to a computer.  I could try putting in a Linux boot disk or swap hard drives, but I don't know how the computer will react to the boot disk and I don't remember if I've ever opened the lid.  You lose your warranty when you do surgery (my cute way of saying opening the lid), but then again, I doubt I'll ever get it serviced again.  My final misgiving is if I do swap hard drives, what happens if there's something wrong with the other hard drive?  Professional service, by the hour, is expensive.  I suppose I could try a few search engines or metasearch engines to answer some of these questions on my own.

I wouldn't mind trying GNU, but I'd probably have to download it onto my PC.

Incidentally, I saw an ad on the "idiot box" (what they call TV's on "Star Trek") about a site called "getmaxspeed.com" if I remember the URL right.  It's supposed to clean up your system.  The first is supposed to be free.  I have misgivings about that because I don't know what they are doing to my system.   Maybe Norton/Symantec have something if I bought a current internet security/antivirus program.
I would probably trust them better because they are legitimate software for a company that's been around for a while and using things on the Internet you just don't know what to expect.

I'll take a gander at "MinGW" and "CygWIn" when I'm done with this message, just to see what you are referring to.

What program will print PDF files?  Remember I have a Mac.

I'd like a size where everything is legible, which may mean it is the size of a small poster.  I went to a local printing company and they said the printout would be some $20 - $25 and that's more than I want to spend on a fake star map.  Maybe you can accomplish that cheaper?

Thanks so much for your continued help and advice.   :)

BYE.

I don't have much to say about the technical aspects of SC installs or PDFs, but I can say with 100% certainty that that commercial is a trap to get you to not only install spyware on your computer, but then pay the guys who put it there in the first place to "clean up" your system. If you're looking for anti-malware software, I personally recommend Spybot S&D, but YMMV; different people have had different experiences with it, but it's always worked reasonably well for me (plus it's free, which is a big plus over Norton or the other big guys).

Avast! is a great free antivirus.

Has anyone else noticed the ads for MyCleanPC, the bogus antivirus? I can't believe they're getting away with that. That's just... infuriating! >:(

Probably OK. I don't remember where I've seen that map, but I think it was on this forum, so it's probably intended for public release.

Any solution that involves unplugging stuff inside your computer every time you switch operating systems is a bad one; there are way too many things that can break and it's time-consuming at best. Dual boot is reasonably easy to set up, especially if you already have a Linux partition on your hard disk; in fact, most computers in our household are set up for dual boot (Windows XP/openSUSE Linux).

Opening the lid usually does not void your warranty on a desktop system, but this may depend on the manufacturer, geographical region and other unexpected things.

Both Norton and McAfee flag Maxspeed as "adware", but it's apparently mostly harmless. It probably isn't much use, either.

I usually try to avoid threats by avoiding behaviour that leads to problems (such as installing unfamiliar software) rather than detect them using a virus scanner. In fact, none of my PCs currently have a virus scanner installed. Of course, there aren't that many Linux viruses. ;)

Since OS X uses PDF for much of its display and printing system, a more interesting question is "How do I print without using PDF?". I don't remember the details, but you really don't need additional software and it's dead easy to do.

Is that USD? If it doesn't mean more than that to you, I do have other UQM-related projects that the community would probably be more interested in. That said, if someone wants to make a printable starmap or two (or more) to include with the game, I guess I could lend a hand.

There is a bundle of development tools called the apple developer tools or Xcode (after the central program in it) which uses and includes gcc and a bunch of other things. You can use Xcode as an Integrated Development Environment or as a programming-oriented text editor. The developer tools don't come preinstalled on macs, but they are free software.

Death 999 (oh, my, it's an Ur-Quan!):

This is the first time I posted with a quote.  Are these HTML "tags"?  (eg ?)

Can I download it (Xcode) on my Mac laptop?  What I'd like to do is put it on my Mac which isn't on the internet because it's more secure that way.

Novus:
I figured the file was Ok because I think we both believe the file came from this forum.  My question was about the website in general.

I was not intending to swap wires every time I decide to change an OS.  I was going to try just one.  One the other hand, I suppose it's possible to have a "master" and "slave" hard drive--it's been a while since I've heard much of that.

I know how to boot off a floppy and I think I can switch hard drives by opening the lid.  I'm just worried that my computer would be Ok if I tried it (what do you think, is that a big risk or no?).

I had KDE and X Windows on Linux Mandrake, with the picture of a penguin.  I wanted to use the enclosed web browser, Konqueror, but I couldn't get it to work.

I have a book on Linux and a book on Red Hat, which I don't think is oriented to me (it's for business, isn't it?).

I had a friend at college ask the Linux folks to send me a copy of Ubuntu, another form of Linux, apparently.  I wasn't sure about putting it on my computer, but another friend of mine had his PC pretty much go ker-plunk and I tried installing it on his computer.  No go.
Don't know what the problem was.

I don't like the idea of companies calling themselves by a URL (though it is a free country).  First of all, what happens when and if you have more than one URL?  Why don't you just have a company name and tack on a domain name or have them Google your company's name?  I'd have a lot more faith in a company that doesn't revolve around a single URL.  That's just me though.

What is malware?  So, Novus, you don't get viruses with Linux?  If only I could be so lucky.  Like I was complaining to someday the other day (don't remember who), I should be able to do a lot of what I want to do with a minimum of effort and errors and bombs.

My offline Mac has a three in one.  Xerox, scan and print.  The scan works fine.  The Xerox works but I need to get more ink.  For some reason, when I print a document, the whole page is squashed into a little rectangle in the center of the paper.  Do you know why it would do something like that?  I was thinking Print Preview or Page Layout would help ... ?

Yes, the figure is in US Dollars.

Do you know where the dollar sign comes from?  The letter U superimposed on the letter S.  Imagine, then, the S being squashed horizontally until it is a simple straight vertical line.  Learned that in world history class way back in high school.

Thanks everybody else, for your input on the antivirus/internet security software experiences you've had.

TTFN!

BYE.

It's things like viruses, worms, trojan horses, spyware, and adware all grouped into one category. Many people just call them all "viruses", even though viruses are a specific type of malware.

JSYK, you can usually find out what something is just by looking it up on Wikipedia.

Hello,

Ok, I learned a new buzzword.  "Malware".  Hmm.

JSYK -- Just So You Know?  I could look it up on www.acronymfinder.com but I think I figured it out without it.

www.m-w.com -- Merriam-Webster dictionary.  I used to have a "word for a day" sent to my InBox.  Lost interest.

BYE.

BBCode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode), actually. HTML uses angle brackets, not square ones. ;)

Parallel ATA does that (to put two disks on one cable); Serial ATA just has two separate connections.

Check your BIOS settings (see your display in the first seconds after starting your computer for information on how to get to them); you can probably switch disks that way.

As opposed to Windows, which is produced and sold by a single company, Linux and related projects such as GNU and KDE (and, to get back on topic, UQM) have been released with the specific intent that others may modify and distribute the programs as long as they grant others the same rights. Hence, anyone who wants to can produce their own Linux distribution, which is typically tailored to a specific need. Red Hat has an enterprise version, but their Fedora distribution is quite popular and could be suitable for your needs. Ubuntu, Mandriva (formerly Mandrake) and openSUSE are other popular desktop distributions.

Whatever made his computer go, as you put it, "ker-plunk" may have messed things up beyond what installing a new OS can fix.

Linux is a much harsher environment for malware. Fewer end users have Linux than Windows, and the ones who do tend to be more careful. Also, many versions of Windows by default implement daft behaviour like automatically executing programs from removable media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoRun#Attack_vectors) in situations where you would not expect it. The habit of getting most of your software from a few trusted sources and low level of piracy also help.

The accepted theory seems to be that it was originally a sign for the Mexican peso (or some other peso; several Latin American pesos use the same symbol) formed by superimposing an S on a P. Your history teacher may have been reading a bit too much Ayn Rand. In any case, what is usually referred to in English as a "dollar sign" means something else in a sizeable chunk of the world and refers to a different dollar in many other countries. We have at least one active Kiwi on this board, for example.

Hello,


Hmm.  Interesting.

Have a good day.

BYE.