The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Café => Topic started by: Admiral Zeratul on September 23, 2010, 11:08:39 pm



Title: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on September 23, 2010, 11:08:39 pm
Split from the "Can computers be made to feel?" thread. I thought the topic was fascinating and would hate to see it doomed to the fate of derailing another thread.

Now please, continue to discuss immortality and its many perks/drawbacks. I look forward to participating.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Valos Cor on September 23, 2010, 11:11:02 pm
Wouldn't it be possible to live forever if you yourself was energy?  I don't know.  That wouldn't make sense either, I suppose.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: ziper1221 on September 24, 2010, 12:19:23 am
Have a nuclear reactor implanted.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Valos Cor on September 24, 2010, 12:40:16 am
Hehe...

Well, technically it wouldn't forever, and technically, it wouldn't work. 


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: up turned crafish on September 24, 2010, 01:15:02 am
say one person became immortal the rest of the human race would evolve and what would happen by the time the universe ends? would this one human remain?


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on September 24, 2010, 01:58:07 am
say one person became immortal the rest of the human race would evolve and what would happen by the time the universe ends? would this one human remain?

Disregarding those last two questions that were hypothetical nonsense, I believe the one human untouched by age nor death would in time be to future humans as the caveman is to us. He would be considered hideous and repugnant. Even if this did not occur, life would become an extremely dull existence. Mathematically, one's perception of time speeds up as he ages. Entire generations would live and die so quickly to you, it all would seem insignificant. This might also be part of the reason why the Kohr-Ah see other sentient life as filth. Their life spans are so abnormally long that they find everyone else drops like flies.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: oldlaptop on September 24, 2010, 01:59:35 am
Wouldn't it be possible to live forever if you yourself was energy?  I don't know.  That wouldn't make sense either, I suppose.

According to SC3 it makes total sense!


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on September 24, 2010, 02:01:28 am
According to SC3 it does!

Abomination!!! No further discussion is necessary.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Alvarin on September 24, 2010, 02:56:36 am
If one would use his own energy to survive, he'd be changed and diminished by time passage, to the point of loosing control of the energy and simply dissipating.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: ziper1221 on September 24, 2010, 03:14:30 am
say one person became immortal the rest of the human race would evolve and what would happen by the time the universe ends? would this one human remain?

Mathematically, one's perception of time speeds up as he ages.

Where do you get that from?


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Alvarin on September 24, 2010, 04:56:03 am
Probably pure logic. Any memory storage device (such as brains) is finite, so to keep up with the increased usage due to lifetime increase the smaller detail would have to be dropped, leaving much less detail of passed experiences, thus time will subjectively "speed up".


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: onpon4 on September 24, 2010, 12:10:11 pm
Probably pure logic. Any memory storage device (such as brains) is finite, so to keep up with the increased usage due to lifetime increase the smaller detail would have to be dropped, leaving much less detail of passed experiences, thus time will subjectively "speed up".

Not exactly. Time won't seem to pass faster, you'll just forget much of the past. This happens on a day-to-day basis; do you remember when you were born? When you first used the toilet? Probably not, because these things happened early in your life, and they aren't particularly important memories. If you lived for 900 years, the first 30 years of your life would be very much forgotten in the same way. This doesn't mean that days seem to pass faster at all; it might mean you underestimate your life span, but that's about it.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on September 24, 2010, 04:45:05 pm
Probably pure logic. Any memory storage device (such as brains) is finite, so to keep up with the increased usage due to lifetime increase the smaller detail would have to be dropped, leaving much less detail of passed experiences, thus time will subjectively "speed up".

Not exactly. Time won't seem to pass faster, you'll just forget much of the past. This happens on a day-to-day basis; do you remember when you were born? When you first used the toilet? Probably not, because these things happened early in your life, and they aren't particularly important memories. If you lived for 900 years, the first 30 years of your life would be very much forgotten in the same way. This doesn't mean that days seem to pass faster at all; it might mean you underestimate your life span, but that's about it.

Not remembering when you're born or took your first crap might have more to do with your brain not being fully developed at that age.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: ziper1221 on September 24, 2010, 05:11:29 pm
I'd go with that ^

And so you only remember the important stuff.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Draxas on September 24, 2010, 07:30:41 pm
This might also be part of the reason why the Kohr-Ah see other sentient life as filth. Their life spans are so abnormally long that they find everyone else drops like flies.

Where'd this come from? I don't recall the Ur-Quan discussing their lifespans at all, jut that their species as a whole is rather old.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Angelfish on September 24, 2010, 08:13:52 pm
According to SC3 it does!

Abomination!!! No further discussion is necessary.

SC3 is star control too, so it should be discussable on this forum and the other one :).


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on September 24, 2010, 08:52:37 pm
This might also be part of the reason why the Kohr-Ah see other sentient life as filth. Their life spans are so abnormally long that they find everyone else drops like flies.

Where'd this come from? I don't recall the Ur-Quan discussing their lifespans at all, jut that their species as a whole is rather old.

Quite a few hints and details can be gathered from the way certain aliens speak.

I recall them speaking about their past and such. They spoke as though they remember the events of the Sentient Milieu time period first hand. Considering the Ur-Quan's territorial nature -- even Kohr-Ah must have retained this to some degree, reproduction must be a rare thing for their species. Add to that the fact the Ur-Quan race as a whole roams the galaxy in huge fleets of military starships (I doubt they have time for recording their history), and my theory begins to make sense.


SC3 is star control too

Heresy!


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Lukipela on September 24, 2010, 08:59:32 pm
SC3 is star control too, so it should be discussable on this forum and the other one :).

Some people prefer to do away with the concept of SC3 all around. I can certainly understand the impulse, since it was a disappointment and most of us don't consider it canon. I do think you're right though, that doesn't mean we can't mention or discuss it at all.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Draxas on September 24, 2010, 10:41:43 pm
I recall them speaking about their past and such. They spoke as though they remember the events of the Sentient Milieu time period first hand. Considering the Ur-Quan's territorial nature -- even Kohr-Ah must have retained this to some degree, reproduction must be a rare thing for their species. Add to that the fact the Ur-Quan race as a whole roams the galaxy in huge fleets of military starships (I doubt they have time for recording their history), and my theory begins to make sense.

I disagree. If you look at more than a few religious texts describing rituals, they are meant to be read as if the reader were actually there. This doesn't mean that any of us are actually thousands of years old. Considering that the doctrines are practically a religion for the Ur-Quan (especially the Kzer-Za), they very well might use this mode of speech as well.

I would think the territorial nature of the Ur-Quan would shorten their lifespans, not increase them. They are more likely to be wounded, and hence die or get crippled, while trying to get close to each other. That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't try to mate somewhat frequently, because biological imperatives and survival of the species are powerful motivators to that end.

Huge military fleets lends itself more toward frequent reproduction and numerous offspring than long lifespans. After all, how likely is it that the Ur-Quan don't take combat losses? If they only reproduced once every hundred years, for example, they would be crippled and useless very quickly if they encountered a strong opponent on their journey, never mind a whole alliance of them. Granted, battle thralls could soak up some of those casualties for the Kzer-Za, but this doesn't take the Kohr-Ah into account, nor does it consider their first encounters in a sector when they don't have any thralls yet.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: Valos Cor on September 27, 2010, 07:38:07 am
Probably pure logic. Any memory storage device (such as brains) is finite, so to keep up with the increased usage due to lifetime increase the smaller detail would have to be dropped, leaving much less detail of passed experiences, thus time will subjectively "speed up".

Not exactly. Time won't seem to pass faster, you'll just forget much of the past. This happens on a day-to-day basis; do you remember when you were born? When you first used the toilet? Probably not, because these things happened early in your life, and they aren't particularly important memories. If you lived for 900 years, the first 30 years of your life would be very much forgotten in the same way. This doesn't mean that days seem to pass faster at all; it might mean you underestimate your life span, but that's about it.

Not remembering when you're born or took your first crap might have more to do with your brain not being fully developed at that age.

I see the sense in the perception of time as one ages theory, but you miss one key detail.  When you live forever, not-aging is pretty much a given, and brains getting filled and loosing memory etcetera is part of old age.  Who says immortality doesn't come with no need to upgrade your memory?  That would put the computer industry out of business.

I know this is odd - and unbelievable - but I remember when I was born...I do.  I tell people, and they don't believe me, most of the time.  Its probably because they don't remember, and that's why.  I have no idea when the first time I got my diaper changed or when I first sat on the toilet but I remember getting my diaper changed in that bin on the ground that hurt my butt so much.  I remember being in what I thought was a box and having a doctor feel my head, my hands, my entire body looking for something (apparently a vein).  Things are pretty fuzzy...I just remember shapes from BEFORE I was born... but I remember clearly being born, and getting a scratchy towel wrapped around my body and being laid beside an extremely sweaty mother.  Then, my memory is sporadic for a year or two and probably bent around due to my small size as a baby and different perception and what several years might've altered my memory.  I never really understood the "under-developed" brain from a personal level.  I have really little trouble remember my wee years in contrast to the rest of my life.  Please!  If any of you have early memories, don't hesitate to tell me.

According to SC3 it does!

Abomination!!! No further discussion is necessary.

SC3 is star control too, so it should be discussable on this forum and the other one :).
I agree. Abomination.  I've been trying to play the game so I could have a first-hand opinion but if we rephrase the "Abomination!!!" statement... then all becomes clear:
Syreen + SC3 = Abomination!!! No further discussion is necessary.


Title: Re: Theoretical Immortality
Post by: onpon4 on September 27, 2010, 12:42:39 pm
Wow, that's crazy. Remembering being born. :D

I vaguely remember back to when I was around 2, but I don't have any memories of diapers or potty training. My very first memory is either getting breastfed one time, or when I was looking at the living room (probably going in that direction). I also vaguely remember being on the changing table while my parents were asleep (right after I woke up, I think), and I remember an instant when I was playing some sort of hockey game with my friend across the hall, Timmy.