The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Cedric6014 on October 01, 2010, 12:16:09 am



Title: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 01, 2010, 12:16:09 am
Hi all

The team is quite excited to announce the release of the Project6014 demo.

You can find content packages and executables for OSX, Windows and Linux at our project page here:
http://code.google.com/p/project6014/wiki/Downloads?ts=1285884896&updated=Downloads (http://code.google.com/p/project6014/wiki/Downloads?ts=1285884896&updated=Downloads)

We’re very keen to get some decent feedback on various bugs and whatnot you may encounter as well as general response.

We wanted to keep to our promise of releasing by 30 September. Unfortunately there are one or two things that we ran out of time to tidy up or insert but we plan to release a patch in a few weeks time to rectify this.

Regardless, it should be perfectly playable. But do remember, as a demo it is extremely light on content. Its purpose is to demonstrate what we are capable of, generate some excitement, and hopefully attract some other talented people in the community to help out.

In the mean time, I hope you enjoy it.


Cedric on behalf of the Project6014 team.


P.S. we tried to think of a better working title but unfortunately the leading candidate also happened to be the same name as a prominent porn star (well, prominent on Google anyway).

Based on the comments posted it seem s that the .exe has an error when you run it but the uqm.bat file is all good.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 01, 2010, 12:36:58 am
P.S. we tried to think of a better working title but unfortunately the leading candidate also happened to be the same name as a prominent porn star (well, prominent on Google anyway).

What was that?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 01, 2010, 12:46:27 am
Apologies for the somewhat untidy and inconsistent nature of the download page. We will get that sorted. I just wanted to publically release this ASAP as I noticed there had been a couple of sneaky downloads  :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: up turned crafish on October 01, 2010, 12:54:56 am
i got some thing saying "error: extra augments found on the command line run with -H to see alloted augments


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 01, 2010, 12:55:29 am
So, do we talk about bugs HERE right?  Because I got an error saying "Extra arguments found on the command-line".


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 01, 2010, 12:56:02 am
I guess I'm not the only one hehehe.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 01, 2010, 12:58:08 am
Wait, I ran the batch file and it worked!  So far it looks SUPER GREAT JOB!!  I'm still wondering why the executable doesn't work though.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 01, 2010, 12:59:06 am
You've got the .EXE with Windows content, right? Try runing uqm.bat instead.

It was Funbags McNastyPants. Seemed like a perfect acceptable name to me.  j/k  ;)

Play the game, suggest a name.  Tell us the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Hopefully, we'll see an update with some improvements.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 01, 2010, 01:18:12 am
Okay, I will!  You don't have to ask me twice :)

Oh, I just realized, I'm like the first non-developer to open the game (I think)!  I'm definitely not going to be the one to reach the end of what's made first.

Yeah, that batch file worked.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: up turned crafish on October 01, 2010, 01:49:46 am
ok got it working thanks


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on October 01, 2010, 02:02:44 am
Playing it now, so far this is really good. Has a lot of potential. I'll respond with some real pros and cons after I'm finished.

By the way: right off the bat, I'd suggest toning down the Earthling Captain's music. I had my speakers up kinda high when I encountered him and it gave me a scare.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 01, 2010, 03:17:45 am
Very nice. There are some little errors in the speech text; one is hard to notice, someone saying the opposite of what they mean (I don't remember what it was specifically), and the other is when you sell bio-data to the Melnorme, there isn't a space before the number of credits he says you earned. Overall, doing great. :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Anthony on October 01, 2010, 03:48:28 am
Sweet.  Just fired up the demo.  Awesome stuff. :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 01, 2010, 08:17:41 am
Err, where are the source codes!? Or are they packaged together with the Windows/OSX binaries?

edit: Nope, they're not.  ???

edit 2: Ah, right, forgot that SVN links are buried somewhere: http://project6014.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/

Either way, you should bundle COPYING with your Win32 binaries

Will try this out when I get home. :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: DangerMouse on October 01, 2010, 08:34:22 am
Definitely very good job. The Lurg race is amazing... graphics, speech and ship. However... they are way to difficult to fight lol. The Chmmr ship you start with is terrible weaponry, which is a nice thing to have as a start for a game, but I don't see any upgrade modules.

Melnorm Bugs:
- Get charged for the same information
- Refueling does not work
- No Race Information

So far from what I've seen, the game is simply done amazingly well so far! Keep up the amazing work!! Hope the Syreen play a big part in story... gotta love those hottie blue skinned females. ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on October 01, 2010, 04:23:34 pm
I think I've played through nearly all of the demo features. There are a two more noticeable bugs that I came in contact with, both in hyperspace.

The first: when I'm in navigation mode in a star system and set course to another star using the starmap, sometimes the ship will just stop once it reaches hyperspace.

The second: after traveling to a spot in hyperspace (not necessarily a star), the ship sometimes will begin spinning until it faces "north".

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 01, 2010, 04:49:47 pm
SweetSassyMolassy, thank you for your feedback!
(And thanks for the others too :) )

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 01, 2010, 06:16:19 pm
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It's a good couple of hours of Gameplay.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: up turned crafish on October 01, 2010, 09:37:58 pm
two bugs i've encountered are the music cutting out in hyperspace and certain dialog choices end the game.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 01, 2010, 10:03:53 pm
Which ones?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 01, 2010, 11:28:29 pm
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 01, 2010, 11:35:30 pm
Here's what my little notepad contains after playing through a large part of the game (Note: haven't met the BIG ENEMIES yet; can't find them at all)

Code:
-Locating the Shofixti broadcast could easily be done by using triangulation and logging the timestamp. Presumably, the Chmmr are already logging hyperwave broadcast data (as that'd be pretty damned sensible) and should thus be able to pinpoint the location of the hyperwave broadcast signal really nicely.
-Chmmr dialogue: Terrorise -> Terrorize (first encounter)
-Not being able to initially see the locations of allies on the starmap is.. inconvenient.
-Someone should really fix up Hayes' background image. I remember making that one and it sucks pants; that background starfield is pretty shit. (Still, it
brought a smile to my face, seeing that one. :P)
-"de facto" -> "de-facto"?
-Melnorme's bridge doesn't turn purple. ;)
-Unzervalt has no dialogue. Same goes for many homeworlds of many other species.
-Upon meeting the Syreen, I suddenly saw the Yehat sphere of influence appear on the starmap (without ever having met them). I'm guessing they use internally the same integer value, which gets set and thus they both appear.
-Music (all music except solar system) randomly disappears.
-Shofixti: Is "autonomity" a word? Shouldn't it be "autonomy"?
-Weren't the shofixti stationed on Beta Gorno 2? I didn't see anything there.. :|
-Kohr-ah Zelnick dialog option: "Rath? I though you guys were plain and simply Kohr-Ah" -> thought
-Main ship in hyperspace: "north-west" has graphical issues at top-right
-Graphical issues when jumping out in super-melee with the main ship on the "mid" zoom-level. There's basically orange stuff everywhere in a square

Also, wtf, "isd" ship!? :P
Also, what happened to the Mark II? :P


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 02, 2010, 12:37:44 am
Thanks for the keen eye, Megagun!

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on October 02, 2010, 01:35:00 am
Haha, "This ship is lame, can I get a new one?" ---"NO"


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 02, 2010, 01:43:16 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 02, 2010, 04:27:48 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 05:53:12 am
Wow, this is amazing!  The art is magnificent and I believe it is loyal to the Star Control-type artwork!

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 02, 2010, 07:50:56 am
I felt like I should make a Pro/Con list as well.
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 07:57:36 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 02, 2010, 08:01:49 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 02, 2010, 08:04:27 am
This is showing great promise so far! You've kept the actions of the different races consistent with their personalities.

Though, I do have a few grievances.


Yes, the new ship is big and shiny, but you have taken away the customization aspect completely! That had better be temporary! This Captain demands his customization.

Tone down the serious levels of some of those response choices you get in conversations. I liked the subtle wackiness in the original and see no reason not to continue it.

I'm developing a lot of rage against the Chmmr. I command them to bring me a new ship PRONTO, and what do they tell me? They say the Explorer is ideally suited to the task required of it. That's mutiny I say! The task should be whatever I darn well feel like doing. How about I show them what true pain is like. *

I like the Vux. Feature them more!

Also, please proofread for grammatical errors lest I inadvertently get out my grammar hammer.


* This is not actually a problem I have with the mod, but rather the Chmmr themselves



That is all.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 08:07:48 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 02, 2010, 09:00:32 am
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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 02, 2010, 11:09:19 am
I'm so glad you love the artwork.  The fact that people love it, and feel its loyal to the Star Control universe is one of the best compliments I could receive.  I worked so hard for that.   After all, I'm making this for you guys. I wish I could take credit for it all, the ship design (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8739/chmmrexploreraa9.png) was by the legendary Vile Rancour as well as the Earth stuff, the new bio-critters, and a bunch of little stuff few will notice like the updated Shofixti ship.  The only work I did on the ship was making more of a 3d view that you see in the loading screen (http://dczanik.deviantart.com/art/CHMMR-Explorer-181083361) and in the intro screens. Most of the artwork is probably mine, but that's because I'm unemployed  :'( and just have more time to work on the game

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Bring on the grammar hammer. I don't think any of us are *gewd spellrz* and could use the help.  Some of the problems are American vs. British spellings. Frankly, they hurt my American eyes. :P Any ideas for witty remarks, PM me, and I'll see if we can't include them.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 02, 2010, 11:41:37 am
Admiral Zeratul:
Thanks for the feedback on the dialogue. Since that's my favorite thing to do in this project, I appreciate any hints and advice to make it even better! Could you PM me the specific bits in the conversations that seem too serious / have those pesky grammar errors?

I'm with dczanik here: Don't be afraid to bring out the grammar hammer. Make it a sledgehammer if you wish!

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 02, 2010, 12:19:29 pm
Zeep-Neep, not Zeep-Reep. (When you first meet a Yehat has that error)

Actually, you're wrong, too. It's Veep-Neep.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 02, 2010, 03:22:40 pm
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That's all I've got for now, I'll continue to poke around some random systems and see if there's anything I can comment on.  So far, loving it, and loving the plot :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 02, 2010, 03:49:18 pm
I think they've already got a plan for the Androsynth.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 02, 2010, 04:20:15 pm
I figured they would.  I have absolutely no programming, or artistic skill what so ever, so all I have to offer is some plot advice :P  So I'll just be that annoying voice in the background that yells out: "what if..."


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 02, 2010, 05:17:29 pm
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Press / (forward slash) to search for stars.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 06:17:37 pm
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Veep-Neep_Dynasty
That confuses me.  A Veep-Reep chair but a Veep-Neep queen...

I thought the Lurg looked familiar!

I wonder what Paul and Fred will think of the game.

I don't think I've found a single piece of artwork I can criticize at all so far!

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 02, 2010, 07:21:19 pm
Wow, the whole Veep-Reep-Neep-Zeep thing is very confusing indeed. No wonder we got a little lost there... Maybe we should just call her 'The Evil Queen'   :-*


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 07:30:27 pm
I'd probably go with the Veep-Neep Dynasty from their throne.  I have no idea, though, but I had never heard of Veep-Reep till the article.  Remember when Hayes said "Veep-Zeep" queen?  Even more confusing...


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 07:49:22 pm
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EDIT:  Ooh!  What if you had a base on the moon or something?  You know, defense or mining or something.  You could use the graphics from the moon base in UQM.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 02, 2010, 09:00:51 pm
Well, I have a bug:

I kept loading a savefile so that I could fight the Kohr-Ah Rath, but when I went to the ATTACK! option at like the third time, it decided to bring me back to the menu screen.  I have the savefile and it does it over and over again.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 03, 2010, 02:17:13 am
New Poster but been playing Star Control 2 since I was 5. Hope my two cents contributes a bit.

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 03, 2010, 04:16:53 am
Judge Yohance. Thanks so much for the input! I'm new to the forums myself. I've been a reader of the forums for quite a while now (since 2002?), so it was a bit surreal when I joined the team and got to work with some of the people I've admired from afar.

I'm pretty proud of capturing the likeness.

I'm personally too busy with the art to contribute to a map (at least at this time), and we only have one other artist. I'd love for the community to help us out here.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 03, 2010, 06:03:32 am
Actually if you guys can place just a list of the star systems up, we can use the map search function to gather exact coordinates of each system and possibly build a map on our own (Got to be a decent drawing program out there somewhere right? :) )

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Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 03, 2010, 09:24:47 am

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They're on there old star systems, above where all the alliance is. The top right corner of the map is actually the bottom left corner of the old map.  The Zoq-Fot-Pik are above Bettlegeuse, and the Umgah above the Chmmr and the Mycon besides the Vux. You just can't access them.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 03, 2010, 11:54:56 am
Actually if you guys can place just a list of the star systems up, we can use the map search function to gather exact coordinates of each system and possibly build a map on our own (Got to be a decent drawing program out there somewhere right? :) )

Questions, a few races are missing still I think (Couldn't locate the Supox, Utwig, Zoq-Fot-Pik to name the ones coming to mind) The home systems they came from don't appear on a map search. So three questions.

1) Are they around in new systems?
2) If not, are the old systems on the map somewhere?
3) If not to both, When/if they are included, will they be in new home systems or will the old ones be brought back to the map?

We will produce a glossy map for this alogn the lines of the original. not a priority at the present though.


To address your questions:

Sadly quite a few races get the chop :(




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 03, 2010, 02:04:23 pm
If you made the Source Code available, someone could edit it to include the old races as well. (Make the map double the size)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 03, 2010, 02:53:00 pm
The source code is available in order to comply with the GPL:
http://code.google.com/p/project6014/source/checkout

(That page seemed to be hidden before. :P)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 03, 2010, 03:04:33 pm
But you can't download it, so you can't create a mod.
Anyway, I have no idea how to compile and run it. I can edit the code (not that well, but I can cope).


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 03, 2010, 03:50:39 pm
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 03, 2010, 08:07:07 pm
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 03, 2010, 08:44:14 pm
Been quite a while since I posted here... but I do want to take part in creating this. I'm particularly adept at crazy plot twists and writing in general, and also can help with music/voice acting.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: lakota.james on October 03, 2010, 08:54:20 pm
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like


In order to play it on linux, we have to download and compile ourselves, though, right?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 03, 2010, 11:51:44 pm
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like


In order to play it on linux, we have to download and compile ourselves, though, right?

But you don't need to "poke around" in the source code.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: guesst on October 04, 2010, 12:56:06 am
I am so torn. I fired this up and went a little way in, but if there's more going to be added I don't want to far into it.

Might have to do a let's play on this.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: jucce on October 04, 2010, 01:27:55 am
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like

Couldn't you keep the code in a private SVN until the actual release? Without any binary release is there an obligation to release the code? Also do you have to release images at all?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 04, 2010, 02:51:18 am
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like

Couldn't you keep the code in a private SVN until the actual release? Without any binary release is there an obligation to release the code? Also do you have to release images at all?

GNU GPL requires the source code to be available if you distribute the material. Since this is a mod of UQM's source code, which is protected by the GPL, they are in fact obligated to make the source available.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 04, 2010, 08:09:49 am
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like


looks like you need a separate spoiler forum where such things can and will be revealed. some people want to be surprised, some people don't :). cater to everyone please :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: edmund on October 04, 2010, 09:20:58 am
There was some discussion in the internal email about how open to be prior to the release.  As the website and repository administrator (or initiator, at least) I've been pulled between the team's urge not spoil things and the necessity of giving others the same rights we had when we started the mod based on existing code and content.  I am confident that that urge, by the way, is entirely in the interest of surprising people with something great.

Prior to the public release of material some privacy is allowed with the sources for that material.  But, now that the alpha demo is out, the source tab will stay.  (The source was never withheld, it was simply not advertised on the home page ;-).  Correspondingly, an occasionally-updated "source.tar.gz" downloadable might be in order -- especially if we can't find a better way to provide Linux/Unix packages.  :-/

Regarding the COPYING file faux pas... we were pretty rushed just trying to make the packages. :-p  I added the note on the download page as soon as I saw your post about it.  Hopefully that will smooth things over until we make the next set of packages.

I hope that we can comply not only with the "letter" of the GPL (and the other relevant free licenses), but the "spirit" as well.  So I would refine Cedric's request to be: if you *do* go poking around, just try not to reveal things before they're ready!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 04, 2010, 09:41:44 am
  So I would refine Cedric's request to be: if you *do* go poking around, just try not to reveal things before they're ready!


Exactly. And you can add to that 'except in such places where you can expect such things to be revealed' :P.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 04, 2010, 12:27:01 pm
Use something like TortoiseSVN to do an SVN checkout.

While we are obliged to make the source code available, we hope that the general public will respect our wishes to not go poking around. This makes it hard to keep things a surprise for al the people who want to be surprises.

So I ask eveyone, please do not go poking around in there, and please do not encourage others to poke around in there.

We would like to keep things under wraps as much as we can. The whole point of this project is to surprise the community with somethign enw and cool. It would be a shame if we lost power over this and the general public went in there and revealed new images and the like

Couldn't you keep the code in a private SVN until the actual release? Without any binary release is there an obligation to release the code? Also do you have to release images at all?

GNU GPL requires the source code to be available if you distribute the material. Since this is a mod of UQM's source code, which is protected by the GPL, they are in fact obligated to make the source available.
Actually, having a private SVN is completely possible. The GPL only states that you need to provide the source *with a binary distribution*. In other words, you can develop internally and then release a binary + source.

The downside (which I find to be a pretty major downside) is that having a private SVN discourages people from joining in and contributing (especially with bugfixes and the like).


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Gekko on October 04, 2010, 01:41:56 pm
Finally had the time to try this thing. Clearly Cedric and his team has been doing an excellent job. The feeling of exploring something new is back, you can feel kind of electricity when landing to those alien systems and everything is built up together in correct numbers. I can't wait to see how this project continues.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 04:34:41 pm
Just a random thought... the Lurg name sounds very similar to two other superfamous races - the Borg and the Zerg. Do those guys also have some kind of collective consciousness? :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 04, 2010, 05:31:20 pm
Actually, I think Lurg predates the Borg and the Zerg. So they are copying Star Control! :) I picked the name from the original Star Control 1 copy protection. Professor Zorg's Guide to Alien Etiquette (http://www.star-control.com/hosted/zorg/zorg.cgi) seemed to be the inspiration (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Professor_Zorg%27s_Guide_to_Alien_Etiquette) of the SC2 aliens, the Orz, Slylandro, Supox, Thraddash, Utwig, and Zoq-Fot-Pik.  So, taking a page out of tradition, I wanted to follow suit.  You'll notice it here (http://uqm.stack.nl/zorg/) in the online solver.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 05:37:50 pm
Cool.  The guide though, is kind of weird.  I'm glad you stuck to a similar name.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 05:46:30 pm
Actually, I think Lurg predates the Borg and the Zerg. So they are copying Star Control! :)
The Borg are from late 80's, so they predate SC a bit. Though it doesn't matter :D

I picked the name from the original Star Control 1 copy protection. Professor Zorg's Guide to Alien Etiquette (http://www.star-control.com/hosted/zorg/zorg.cgi) seemed to be the inspiration (http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Professor_Zorg%27s_Guide_to_Alien_Etiquette) of the SC2 aliens, the Orz, Slylandro, Supox, Thraddash, Utwig, and Zoq-Fot-Pik.  So, taking a page out of tradition, I wanted to follow suit.  You'll notice it here (http://uqm.stack.nl/zorg/) in the online solver.

Not only that, but also Pkunk and quite a few Umgah names.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 04, 2010, 05:48:59 pm
Actually, Zork was copied from Zorg the adventure game. I think Borg did copy from there too. See, mystery solved ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 04, 2010, 06:08:54 pm
I think you should be able to meet pkunk and buy their ships. I think it's unlikely that every member of the Pkunk fleet retired.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 06:36:43 pm
When I took on the Lurg with the Utwig, and they deployed a lot of their bubbles, the Utwig missiles became invisible, and when the bubbles dissolved, the missiles became visible again. Is it related to some limit of weapon graphics in the Melee?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 06:45:45 pm
I think you should be able to meet pkunk and buy their ships. I think it's unlikely that every member of the Pkunk fleet retired.

I agree.  When I was playing, I was think that there MUST be at least SOME Pkunk there!

When I took on the Lurg with the Utwig, and they deployed a lot of their bubbles, the Utwig missiles became invisible, and when the bubbles dissolved, the missiles became visible again. Is it related to some limit of weapon graphics in the Melee?

Utwig plus Lurg... I had no problems.  Then again, I never really tried to SHOOT the lasers/beams (or you could say missiles) into the bubbles, but rather zoomed into them and shielded.  The shields don't protect against the stun, though, which I like.  If you mean a lot of bubbles plus a lot of missiles somewhere, I had no trouble. 

I did, however, experience other bugs.  On Windows 7 at least, when you minimize the window while running with the batch file executing it for a few minutes, the game starts to hog more and more memory and pretty soon, 90 percent of the 2 gig ram is taken.  If you restore the window before it gets too large, the memory usually shrinks back down.  If you don't, well, tough luck, you have to restart the game.  Also, sometimes, when going to a battle screen, it randomly decides to take you to the game menu.  It happens in other situations too but it seems random to isolated events at worst.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 07:44:48 pm
Observed the same effect with the Pkunk - their bullets became invisible for a short time. The Lurg themselves also occasionally shoot invisible bubbles - the sound, well, sounds, but no particles appear from the Lurg ship.
Been testing the Lurg on Awesome difficulty against various ships. They are PITIFULLY weak against the Mycon, just pound them with plasmoids from distance, and they're gone very quickly. Was it one of the reasons the Mycon got the axe?
The Kohr-Ah do extremely well too, for precisely the same reasons.
The Utwig also beat them relatively easily. On Cyborg vs. Cyborg match-ups, Utwig came out of the battle unscathed.
Against Arilou, it's interesting. The stunner affects them as all other ships - they move straight ahead at the speed they were stunned at. If teleporting when stunned, Arilou stand still until stun effect wears out. They can hold their own in the hands of a skilled player.
Against Shofixti, the Lurg tend to become overly defensive, putting out a lot of bubbles and almost completely refraining from using their primary weapon. I almost destroyed a Prawn with the Scout's puny cannon.
The Lurg can stand their own against Orz, their shooting of the Go!Go!s is very precise.
Lurg vs. Thraddash is virtually a stalemate, the Thraddash ship is defensive by nature, and the Lurg get defensive too, they don't pursue the Torch.
The Lurg are stronger than the Zoq-Fot-Pik, though the ZFP cannon is still a nuisance.
Chenjesu: look Mycon and Kohr-Ah, though the Lurg put up a better fight.
Ur-Quan. Just plain HOPELESS. A single fighter can shoot the Prawn to death if the Lurg don't shoot it down.
Earthling: also hopeless. Homing nukes from the distance, see Mycon and Kohr-Ah.
Yehat: a good match. The Terminator's and Prawn's attack have roughly the same range. The Terminator shoots quicker, but the Prawn deals more damage and has more crew.
Supox: almost the same as Yehat.

I'd suggest to buff the Prawn a bit. It's clearly WAY stronger than the Explorer, but most of the other ships can beat it with relative ease. Heck, if even ZoqFot and Shofixti can put up a fight with this, the Lurg don't seem terrifying enough.
The AI, in my opinion, should be made a tad more aggressive. A defensive tactic against the Shofixti Scout, of all ships...
The primary attack is good, but I think the stun isn't... well... stunning enough, besides, most of the ships can retaliate even when they can't move. Maybe, if the stunned ship uses its primary or secondary weapon, it not only loses energy, but also takes damage equal to the energy needed to shoot the weapon?
Also, I think, the bubbles should at least push away the pesky Orz Marines and Ur-Quan Fighters. The Prawn is virtually defenseless from the fighters, it can't outrun them and can't take them down quickly enough.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 04, 2010, 07:49:01 pm
Observed the same effect with the Pkunk - their bullets became invisible for a short time. The Lurg themselves also occasionally shoot invisible bubbles - the sound, well, sounds, but no particles appear from the Lurg ship.
Been testing the Lurg on Awesome difficulty against various ships. They are PITIFULLY weak against the Mycon, just pound them with plasmoids from distance, and they're gone very quickly. Was it one of the reasons the Mycon got the axe?
The Kohr-Ah do extremely well too, for precisely the same reasons.
The Utwig also beat them relatively easily. On Cyborg vs. Cyborg match-ups, Utwig came out of the battle unscathed.
Against Arilou, it's interesting. The stunner affects them as all other ships - they move straight ahead at the speed they were stunned at. If teleporting when stunned, Arilou stand still until stun effect wears out. They can hold their own in the hands of a skilled player.
Against Shofixti, the Lurg tend to become overly defensive, putting out a lot of bubbles and almost completely refraining from using their primary weapon. I almost destroyed a Prawn with the Scout's puny cannon.
The Lurg can stand their own against Orz, their shooting of the Go!Go!s is very precise.
Lurg vs. Thraddash is virtually a stalemate, the Thraddash ship is defensive by nature, and the Lurg get defensive too, they don't pursue the Torch.
The Lurg are stronger than the Zoq-Fot-Pik, though the ZFP cannon is still a nuisance.
Chenjesu: look Mycon and Kohr-Ah, though the Lurg put up a better fight.
Ur-Quan. Just plain HOPELESS. A single fighter can shoot the Prawn to death if the Lurg don't shoot it down.
Earthling: also hopeless. Homing nukes from the distance, see Mycon and Kohr-Ah.
Yehat: a good match. The Terminator's and Prawn's attack have roughly the same range. The Terminator shoots quicker, but the Prawn deals more damage and has more crew.
Supox: almost the same as Yehat.

I'd suggest to buff the Prawn a bit. It's clearly WAY stronger than the Explorer, but most of the other ships can beat it with relative ease. Heck, if even ZoqFot and Shofixti can put up a fight with this, the Lurg don't seem terrifying enough.
The AI, in my opinion, should be made a tad more aggressive. A defensive tactic against the Shofixti Scout, of all ships...
The primary attack is good, but I think the stun isn't... well... stunning enough, besides, most of the ships can retaliate even when they can't move. Maybe, if the stunned ship uses its primary or secondary weapon, it not only loses energy, but also takes damage equal to the energy needed to shoot the weapon?
Also, I think, the bubbles should at least push away the pesky Orz Marines and Ur-Quan Fighters. The Prawn is virtually defenseless from the fighters, it can't outrun them and can't take them down quickly enough.

Thanks, that was extremely helpful. We did not have time to play test against each ship. Part of the problem is that the Lurg does not have its own AI yet. I think its using Supox.

But I think that overall the Lurg is too vulnerable agaisnt too many ships. We will continue to tinker!




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 08:10:43 pm
The Lurg are stronger than the Pkunk. The only chance the birdies have is reincarnation.
The engine indeed does limit the "combat particles" in some way. The Umgah cone kept blinking as the Lurg released their bubbles. By the way, the Umgah have no hope against Lurg, the bubbles stun them, leaving them completely exposed.
Maybe, the bubbles should be destructable by the cone. The Kohr-Ah thingy does destroy them anyway.
The Druuge: no chance for the Lurg unless they manage to get close.
The Melnorme: same as the Druuge.
The Ilwrath can put up a valiant fight, but the Prawn kicks their ass.
Against the Syreen, the Lurg aren't as defensive as the Shofixti, and they quickly dispatch the blue-skinned babes.
The Mmrnmhrm waste the Lurg in a few seconds with the laser.
As do the Chmmr. But the Lurg's stunner has quite an interesting effect: it can stun the individual Zap-Sats. They still orbit the Avatar, but not in a perfect order - so one side of the ship remains exposed. Though the Lurg do pitifully against the Zap-Sats even if the Avatar doesn't move at all.
The VUX spray the Lurg with limps for a distance, then close in for a relatively easy kill. Though one still needs to watch for the stunning bubbles.
And, by the way, the weapons seem not to just become invisible. The sound plays, the energy wastes, but the weapon DOES NOT FIRE AT ALL. When the Lurg got a lot of bubbles against the VUX and I shot them with my laser within the range, nothing happened. The beam didn't appear, and it didn't shoot.
The Androsynth. Bubbles vs. bubbles is hilarious. The Lurg can put up a decent fight.
Spathi - see Thraddash, a complete stalemate.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 04, 2010, 08:18:08 pm
The Lurg are stronger than the Pkunk. The only chance the birdies have is reincarnation.
I find it quite easy to destroy the Lurg with a Pkunk.
I had the computer on Awesome Cyborg.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 09:00:31 pm
I wonder what crazy things Elvish Pillager's Crazy mod would do if someone happened to try that and it worked!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 09:25:58 pm
Tried to play for the Lurg. These guys DEFINITELY need an aggressive AI. The Prawn just trashes Thraddash and Shofixti and can hold its own very well even against Chenjesu. The Orz though still remain a menace.
And still, the stunner must either push the nuisances like fighters, marines and DOGI away or stun them too, as it does with the Chmmr Zapsats. The ship's too vulnerable for the Creepy Bad Guys Even Ur-Quan Fear To Mess With.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 09:38:38 pm
I agree that they should have an aggressive ai.  However, it could be added that these aren't the best ships, but are the weakest ones.  You know, a lower class of ship, and that the Lurg have much better, more destructive weaponry.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 04, 2010, 09:43:06 pm
I think you need a bit more range on the explorer's confusion ray by the way ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 09:47:11 pm
Whoa, there's actually a confusion ray!?!  :o


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 09:50:33 pm
It's possible to beat the Mycon with the Lurg, but here an ultra-defensive tactic is advised, with quick zap-ins using gravity whip and maybe forcing them to hurl the plasmoid into themselves by accident.
Against the Earthling, it's a stalemate once again. The stunner DOES stun the Eartling nukes, actually making them miss (of course, if they don't fly straight into you from behind), but it's very hard to get into an attacking position.
Funny how different weapons are coded as different types of objects - the Zapsats and nukes are affected by stun, while, say, plasmoids or DOGIs are not.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 04, 2010, 09:56:02 pm
I just tried the confusion ray.  I can't believe it, its actually there!  When Hayes sized up the ship and mentioned the "secondary weapon", (or was that the Melnorme, I think it was Hayes, so maybe I made a mistake in another post about Melnorme information) I assumed he meant I needed to buy that and I thought that meant the game hadn't had it implemented.  Well, cool.

 Edit: My 100th post, yippee!  Now I have many bubbles! :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 04, 2010, 10:47:40 pm
The current Prawn is, overall, for someone with more suicidal tendencies than even the Shofixti. It's very vulnerable, so the only hope against most ships is to get to the point-blank range and engage in a brutal shoot-out. At point-blank, even the Kohr-Ah and Utwig can be defeated with some luck. Though the trick won't work against the Ur-Quan or the Chenjesu, whose shots are even more brutal and whose crews are bigger.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 05, 2010, 05:47:59 am
Have to agree with everyone. A single Utwig Jugger and I ate those 5 Lurg ships without a single casualty.

Also the explorer itself is not very effective due to very short weapon ranges. The secondary weapon does not last long enough to make it effective in combat. I often fire it and don't have enough time to close the range before it wears off.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: edmund on October 05, 2010, 08:22:20 am
The Lurg special weapon and AI were conceived and implemented a few work hours before the demo was due. ;-)  I'm sure we can invest a lot more before we get it right.  It would be good to have some of the other melee modders apply their experience -- oh, hi ElvishPillager! :D

Precisely how easy the Lurg should be warrants further investigation.  I found it reasonably challenging with all the ships I tried (and effectively impossible with only the Explorer).  I strongly suspect the typical demo player is well above average in melee skills.  Once we decide what our target audience is I think will realise that most melee pilots are nowhere near the level of Cedric or Megagun...


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on October 05, 2010, 12:06:18 pm
I'm by no means a good player, but the 5 Lurg were dispatched with single Earthling cruiser. My only 4 dead crew were due to planet impact, not enemy fire.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 05, 2010, 12:13:44 pm
My only 4 dead crew were due to planet impact, not enemy fire.

haha, loser ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 05, 2010, 12:32:47 pm
Here's a thought:

(click to show/hide)

Why? By throwing the "toughest" (well, should be toughest) guys at the player right from the beginning, you create a backwards learning curve, where the game gets progressively easier as your ship gets upgraded, while enemy ships don't change at all. The only way you can counter this is to add even more Lurg ships, which tends to make gameplay more boring.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 05, 2010, 02:50:58 pm
Here's a thought:

(click to show/hide)

Why? By throwing the "toughest" (well, should be toughest) guys at the player right from the beginning, you create a backwards learning curve, where the game gets progressively easier as your ship gets upgraded, while enemy ships don't change at all. The only way you can counter this is to add even more Lurg ships, which tends to make gameplay more boring.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, so you could have different classes of ships.  You know, the weakling scout/servant/ (you said it) probe that is a warning to turn back, perhaps all those ships (spoiler, but hey, if you' reading till page 7, you ought to know about the spoilers) are not scouts, but the next level up.  It would make sense that they would have different types.  I don't know if that's what you think its boring.  If it is, I don't see why...uh, why? :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 05, 2010, 04:02:26 pm
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Spektrowski on October 05, 2010, 04:44:52 pm
An exotic playtest: Lurg vs. Lurg. The AI Lurg stands no chance against an aggressive player Lurg.
Lurg vs. Mmrnmhrm. The Mmrnmhrm get all defensive and try to nuke the Lurg from distance. The stunner seems to be working on the missiles though. When the X-form does close in, it pounds the Prawn very heavily, but if one manages to get into a blind spot, the Lurg easily despatch the Mmrnmhrm.
Lurg vs. Androsynth - another fight that ends in the Lurg's favour. The Androsyn bubbles are too slow, and the Blazer form can't even approach the Lurg because of their stun bubbles.
So, overall, the Prawn in the hands of an average melee player like me is a mediocre ship, capable of defending itself from the weakest, holding its own against mediocres and suffering a heavy pounding from the strongest.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: SweetSassyMolassy on October 05, 2010, 05:13:57 pm
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 05, 2010, 10:27:23 pm
I just want to apologise to anyone who had hoped to get a Linux executable for the mod. We’ve had a few issues creating one. If anyone out there is able to help with this please sing out


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 05, 2010, 10:37:25 pm
How about REAL Metroid style (as in Metroid Zero Mission, (also known as a remake of the original) and Metroid Fusion) where you're the captain who walks around with a stunner gun, but he gets better weapon upgrades and he fights his way through different sectors of the base when (spoiler...) he is supposedly captured by the Lurg?  So...Captain fights the 5 Lurg ships but he is surrounded and equipment starts to malfunction...Zelnick wakes up in the ship and all he has is his stunner.  He has no idea why he is there on the station, and actually unguarded, or why he is the only one.  Then, he has to stun some genetically modified soldiers as he works his way around the station, finds a genetically-whatever ship, and escapes!  That would be way to hard to do.  What if I put my insignificant programming "skills" to work?

I just want to apologise to anyone who had hoped to get a Linux executable for the mod. We’ve had a few issues creating one. If anyone out there is able to help with this please sing out

Has anyone tried to Wine the Windows executable?  I tried that with UQM extended, and it worked, even though it took a lot of processing (it was on a 1gig 1.86 or so gigahertz laptop though, Fedora 11,13)  I think it would work fine with the game.  Wine is awesome!



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 05, 2010, 10:54:02 pm
Let's keep it original please. I have played Metroid, and it's fun, but the project is obviously about Star Control II.  ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 05, 2010, 10:59:11 pm
Yeah, but the Metroid style would be...oh...1/20th of the game :) that would be nice!  Anyway...I'm going to restart my computer with Fedora 13 and try it on Wine and tell you guys how it turns out!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 05, 2010, 11:24:56 pm
Here's a thought:

(click to show/hide)

Why? By throwing the "toughest" (well, should be toughest) guys at the player right from the beginning, you create a backwards learning curve, where the game gets progressively easier as your ship gets upgraded, while enemy ships don't change at all. The only way you can counter this is to add even more Lurg ships, which tends to make gameplay more boring.

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, so you could have different classes of ships.  You know, the weakling scout/servant/ (you said it) probe that is a warning to turn back, perhaps all those ships (spoiler, but hey, if you' reading till page 7, you ought to know about the spoilers) are not scouts, but the next level up.  It would make sense that they would have different types.  I don't know if that's what you think its boring.  If it is, I don't see why...uh, why? :)

Actually, I wasn't talking about classes, but a sort of security drone that you just converse with, like the Ur-Quan probe you meet at the beginning of SC2.

(click to show/hide)

Essentially, the idea is to keep it as it is now, but eliminate the fight with the Lurg The probe would also make it more obvious that it's the planet you're looking for.

Oh, and just a thought:
I think the strange alien on the SC2 box art (which became the "Lurg") is either a Kohr-Ah or the original Ur-Quan.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 05, 2010, 11:53:23 pm
I got an error saying that it looked as if I had no sound, but I went to wine config and turned the sound on (PulseAudio Driver) (I don't know what I'm doing :P) and tried it again, and it WORKED!  ;D
warning: relatively large picture alert:
(click to show/hide)
  IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO LOAD THIS PICTURE so there better be oohs and aahs :).

Sigh... I KNEW I should've cropped this.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 06, 2010, 12:00:40 am
I got an error saying that it looked as if I had no sound, but I went to wine config and turned the sound on (PulseAudio Driver) (I don't know what I'm doing :P) and tried it again, and it WORKED!  ;D
warning: relatively large picture alert:
(click to show/hide)
  IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO LOAD THIS PICTURE so there better be oohs and aahs :).

Sigh... I KNEW I should've cropped this.

1. The image didn't show for me; I hade to copy the link and paste it into a new tab.
2. Why did you upload the whole screen, instead of just the relevant parts?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 06, 2010, 12:11:05 am
That's what I mean by " I KNEW I should've cropped this." Sorry, but by the time I realized that it was WAY to large, I had already uploaded the image to my new website, got it there with html (finally) and stuff.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 06, 2010, 01:18:42 am
I can't even find the link for it.
It just doesn't show up.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 06, 2010, 01:29:51 am
I can't even find the link for it.
It just doesn't show up.

http://cdjohnson.freewebpage.org/test2.png (http://cdjohnson.freewebpage.org/test2.png)

I just used the quote button to get the link. But it seems to be gone now.... ???


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 06, 2010, 03:39:51 am
Huh?  I'm just as stumped as you are!  It shows right here, but the link sends you to a sign up for free webpage hosting!  Sigh... do I have to do imagebin again?  There, only relevant parts of the image are there.  I can't ever get images to work :(

Here's the link directly if it doesn't work for you guys: http://imagebin.org/117197

This is only temporary since its imagebin.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 06, 2010, 03:54:29 am
I agree to an extent with what was said earlier about the learning curve.  I liked the way SCII put you into it, with a messed up Illwrath that couldn't function, so you nuked it and went about your day, only to later get into a tussle with Kor-Ah etc.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 06, 2010, 04:27:21 am
We have all been talking a lot about the current demo set but I am noticing we aren't talking much about "The story so far"

We all know the story of Star Control 2 and how the game ended. The demo gave us a taste of the story to come (which i forgot to mention, I hate whoever came up with the idea of leaving us a damn cliffhanger! :) )

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 06, 2010, 04:52:56 am
Some good questions JudgeYohance

There is a pretty solid story outline in place, complete with subplots etc. Really its just properly linking these elements and developing an awesome ending.

I’m a big fan of non-essential easter eggs. There will be quite a few of these. They may or may not take the form of side quests.

There will also be some exciting additions to gameplay

Man, we have a heap of work in front of us. Especially in the graphics department. As well as a need for more artists, it would be useful to have people who were proficient at Photoshop (or Paintshop Pro or Gimp etc) to help convert the art into computer graphics. There will be a LOT of that to do. Lots of laborious image work.

In addition we’ll need voice actors, music composers, dialogue writers and programmers. A lot of the work will be mundane.

It’s worth noting that SC2 is our benchmark for quality in all areas.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 06, 2010, 06:22:10 am
Sadly I can't do much in terms of graphics, since I have never had any talent for photoshop programs.

I would love to try for some of the voice work. I am training to be a teacher so if there is one thing I can do, it's talk a lot :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 06, 2010, 02:44:21 pm
Well, when my laptop's last toe of its last foot died off, (except the Linux hard drive) I got this desktop that was three or four steps up from the processing, short and long term memory, and software perspectives.  One of them was that it came with Adobe Master Collection CS5.  Of course, among several dozen other (mostly untouched) programs, there's Adobe Photoshop for me to use... ;D

However, the only program I consider I'm fairly well at is mspaint, but I've seen people in the other thread who were WAY better than me hands down...

I agree about the storyline.  Apparently, dczanik managed to contribute A LOT without getting a lot of the storyline...do you think that's possible?  I wish I had the ability to create graphics like these because one of my favorite things about SCII has always been the artwork.  I could right some dialogue - at the very least, I could write 20 different versions of greetings for a single race's ship or station.  I am pretty good at grammar.

Sadly I can't do much in terms of graphics, since I have never had any talent for photoshop programs.

I would love to try for some of the voice work. I am training to be a teacher so if there is one thing I can do, it's talk a lot :)

Cool, what kind of teacher?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 06, 2010, 06:37:16 pm
Quote
Cool, what kind of teacher?

Math/Physics (going for both certifications) :)



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 07, 2010, 03:59:19 am
I would offer to assist with some of the dialogue, but some stuff came up at work and I'm going to be really busy :( but I can chip in wherever I can


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Valos Cor on October 07, 2010, 07:28:21 am
Quote
Cool, what kind of teacher?

Math/Physics (going for both certifications) :)
Neat...I happen to be trying to make a 3D model using Flash, and the x y z actionscript code plus the physics of the whole thing is giving me a lot of trouble...I wish someone could teach me...<wink,wink, nudge, nudge>

By the way...that makes me wonder...how do the animations like the Syreen Homeworld go?  Or how did the Comm Screen animations in general work?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on October 07, 2010, 12:17:47 pm
About that: I find the zoom in thing for the Syreen to be rather... annoying. It makes it look better the first time you meet them, but it's disorienting for the view to zoom in and out constantly. Perhaps if you just kept it zoomed in until the dialogue ended, it would be fine.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 07, 2010, 04:26:50 pm
I rather like it. It only zooms in when she is talking. 

Animation is basically done using a text file that lists the x,y coordinates a png file is placed "on top". When you have a series of these just right it looks like it's moving. Same concept like using multiple sheets of paper for traditional animation. I'm generalizing a bit, the game requires hand coding for a lot of stuff too.

Zooming is done by really having five frames of animation that "fades" between one pic and the next.  I just created that by changing the opacity levels between two pictures over the five screens. A fair amount of coding made it work.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 07, 2010, 06:54:00 pm
Same, I wouldn't like it if it was only zoom in and no zoom out.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Avaclon on October 08, 2010, 12:14:24 am
Wow.  This is really impressive.

I've been following since before Pages of Now and Forever moved to its new server... (early 2000ish?)

Gotta say, the moment that I exit Procyon and basically, get dump into space and was told to GO.  Wow, what an eerie, dread, yet familiar feeling long gone, I have no idea what to do.  Then as I slow explore each stars, I remembered, this is how gaming use to be.  Perhaps even how gaming should be.  Before the modern games pamper us with giant arrows and direction signs, and we act like errand boys completing one task and on to the next.  The awesome sense of exploration and wonder came back.  Good job guys!

I'll come up with more suggestion as I explore more of the game!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: ziper1221 on October 08, 2010, 02:10:17 am
why no button for zoom?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Elerium on October 08, 2010, 08:23:41 pm
Well I can give some insight into dialogue writing for you chaps, you seem to have got something rolling pretty well :)

Several things I think though:

The Explorer, now it in itself is a decent ship design but it seems too Chenjesu, the Chmmr usually have metallic streamlining. As for the Melnorme confuse burst, I'm not sure about the Melnorme would sell their trade secrets relating to the weapons they use on their ships or that the Chmmr would have some basic understanding of how they worked unless it was through combat (but then, why would they attack the Melnormes?). The forward crystal weapon seems a bit out of place for the Chmmr and more Chenjesu, as the Chmmr are more into bold, upfront and personal conflicts. The design of the Avatar is certain of this method of attack.

Personally I'd have the Explorer as some sort of large heavily modified Avatar derived flagship. It cannot serve as a battleship, but there's plenty of room for more of the sciencey gizmos and stuff onboard.
Alternatively I'd also throw around that the Chmmr secured the Precursor shipyard on Undzervalt and assimilated it, producing Precursor-Chmmr hybrids under the watchful eye of the Earthers who grow nervous at their growing power and that they're trespassing on their fields of expertise.

Perhaps the Explorer gets a few Zapsats of its own, especially when you're told you might be up against Kohr-Ah and whatnot.

You're told the Shofixti got wiped out, but where? I'm told to go, but no indication where they were last?

Orz wormhole, on approach I think it would be better to have the Captain having some sort of trippy mind programming put there by the Arilou saying Beware! etc, like (From the back of your mind you hear a calming unknown voice).

As for the Ilwrath, maybe have them around but with some sort of cloaked pirate base somewhere, which serves as a sideplot or something. I just find it hard to believe all of them would have died out, same with the Thraddash who might now be the equivalent of space biker gangs that now drive around the universe.

Oh and finally, the Slylandro piloting Kohr-Ah ships. I had to go back a bit and say lolwut. What would have been better (and what I would rather prefer) was them being sold Umgah ships after letting the blobs look at their gassy biology but they came with some dodgy hologram technology that makes them appear as Kohr-Ah for some stupid reason the gasballs haven't figured out. Then they're left wondering why people are fragging them, until you fix the way that they should appear by which they want to come onto your side. Mainly I just found that an unknown faction selling them fully geared Marauders after prying them from their cold dead tentacles was wrong as hell, but if the Umgah are making them fly around scaring the pants off everyone as Kohr-Ah that's just gold.
Maybe the Umgah start bragging that they took some Ilwrath junk here and there from the Thraddash war, changed stuff around from "cloaking device" (as light gets manipulated by Ilwrath ships) to "hologram device" and gave it to them, before going Har Har Har!. The Slylandro might have been able to synthesize some sort of probe thing with their ships though, could use it as a DOGI that is released with the image of a small probe that zaps the enemy vessel a bit.
Maybe as a joke I'd have a single Slylandro probe harass the captain once, "We come in peace" "Oh dear lord not this again, please tell me I can remember what that self destruct code was..".


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Draxas on October 08, 2010, 09:00:07 pm
No thanks to being out of town for a while, and then sick after that, I finally dowloaded and started playing 6014 last night.

First thing first: Cedric, and everyone who has been working on this with him, you guys are all awesome and I love you in a totally platonic way. What I've seen so far has been seriously impressive (though not without its share of problems, but I'll get to those in a bit), and I applaud you guys for the immense amount of effort it must have taken to put this together.

I haven't finished the demo yet thanks to a particularly nasty bug which I'll discuss in a bit. But what I've seen so far is great in its entirety. I'll start spoilering things now, just incase there's someone else even farther behind the curve than I am (which is doubtful).

(click to show/hide)

Now for the bad parts:

(click to show/hide)

Overall, though, a stellar demo from what I've seen of it. I'll definitely come back with more commentary once I've finished the main content.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 08, 2010, 09:18:41 pm
Gidday Elerium, thanks for playing thru and the providing some comments

The Explorer, now it in itself is a decent ship design but it seems too Chenjesu, the Chmmr usually have metallic streamlining. As for the Melnorme confuse burst, I'm not sure about the Melnorme would sell their trade secrets relating to the weapons they use on their ships or that the Chmmr would have some basic understanding of how they worked unless it was through combat (but then, why would they attack the Melnormes?). The forward crystal weapon seems a bit out of place for the Chmmr and more Chenjesu, as the Chmmr are more into bold, upfront and personal conflicts. The design of the Avatar is certain of this method of attack.

Personally I'd have the Explorer as some sort of large heavily modified Avatar derived flagship. It cannot serve as a battleship, but there's plenty of room for more of the sciencey gizmos and stuff onboard.

Perhaps the Explorer gets a few Zapsats of its own, especially when you're told you might be up against Kohr-Ah and whatnot.
Yeah we were a bit hurried with the weapons for both the new ships. The explorer needs tweaking. The zap-sats arent a bad idea! altho not very original. No less original than a confusion ray though, but as I say we had to hurry to make the 30 Sept deadline so we just slapped some weapons on. We'll do a patch in the next month or so that will address this issue and all the bugs that folks have spotted.

You're told the Shofixti got wiped out, but where? I'm told to go, but no indication where they were last?
You'll need to ask around  ;). There's clearly quite a lot of content you haven't seen

Orz wormhole, on approach I think it would be better to have the Captain having some sort of trippy mind programming put there by the Arilou saying Beware! etc, like (From the back of your mind you hear a calming unknown voice).
Ah you found it. Nice job! The Arilou warning is a demo-specific thing, to protect some excitingness that we're saving for the main release

As for the Ilwrath, maybe have them around but with some sort of cloaked pirate base somewhere, which serves as a sideplot or something. I just find it hard to believe all of them would have died out, same with the Thraddash who might now be the equivalent of space biker gangs that now drive around the universe.
Everyone seems to want to have them come back as pirates. We'll see.

Oh and finally, the Slylandro piloting Kohr-Ah ships. I had to go back a bit and say lolwut.
Nah, I like it


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 08, 2010, 09:41:12 pm
...
Thanks Draxas, glad you're enjoying it. It seems that you also have not quite exhausted all the content :)

Basically to address most of your concerns, it is very much a demo and a buggy one at that. Its only real aim was to give you a chance to fly around in a new universe. The dialogue will be totally fleshed out in a final version.

Also, we will put out a demo patch that addresses some of the annoying bits.

The play testing people has done has been quite invaluable. Thanks everyone!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Twurckle on October 09, 2010, 09:30:01 am
Finally had some time to play, great work, here's some feedback:

good:
(click to show/hide)

other comments:
(click to show/hide)

Anyhow, great work so far!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 09, 2010, 08:31:08 pm
If you're going to feature the Ilwrath, do the Thraddash too! I look forward to learning about Culture 21.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: oldlaptop on October 10, 2010, 12:40:18 am

(click to show/hide)

It might not be terribly important to reduce learning curve, it's kind of expected that the player will have completed SC2. Probably the more important issue is whether the player can complete the battles with what resources are available at a given time, which might well become an issue if the
(click to show/hide)
get an improved AI.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Draxas on October 10, 2010, 09:50:33 am
All right, I'm back now that I've completed the demo. Definitely a great start, thanks again for all your hard work.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 10, 2010, 10:49:31 am
All right, I'm back now that I've completed the demo. Definitely a great start, thanks again for all your hard work.

Thanks! I appreciate it! It thrills me that people just want to explore and find everything they can.  It seems you've certainly played the heck out of it. I'm the art guy so I can't speak on everything, but I'll answer your questions best I can...

The music bug is still a bug. Reloading the game should help. I can't speak to why it's happening. Same with the SOI stuff.

(click to show/hide)




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: cs_Jere on October 10, 2010, 01:22:40 pm
(I had to create a new account just to praise you guys.)

I just found out today about the demo release. It made my day. You guys are awesome, you've created some awesome shit, and I hope the finished product will be just as awesome.

And if you guys need any help with  the non-tech department for the mod, (music, plot, dialogue etc) don't hesitate to ask. I'm a student with too much free time [but zero-skill with programming etc that has anything to do with 0s and 1s]  ;D and I'd love to contribute some to a magnificent mod like this  ;)
Keep up the good work.
cs_Jere


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 10, 2010, 01:47:02 pm
cs_Jere, do you havce any graphics skills? 'cause that's what they're mainly looking for.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: cs_Jere on October 10, 2010, 02:00:18 pm
Well I can draw with pen and paper (and scan it) but my photoshopping/etc is pretty limited, and I have 0 experience with coding graphics into game :P


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 10, 2010, 02:41:08 pm
Well I can draw with pen and paper (and scan it) but my photoshopping/etc is pretty limited, and I have 0 experience with coding graphics into game :P

All you aspiring artists (be it graphics, music or whatever)! If you feel like contributing to the mod, but are unsure since don't know how to program, don't worry.
We programmers will do all the nitty-gritty coding, and you can focus on the creative stuff! :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 10, 2010, 02:43:48 pm
Allright, here's my short list of commentary.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Draxas on October 10, 2010, 06:31:40 pm
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

[/quote]


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Habilis on October 10, 2010, 07:47:47 pm
First, my thanks to all those involved in this project! Star Control is one of my favorite games of old (with Master of Magic and PS:T), and I'm overjoyed to know, that there is a chance for more of it, after so much years.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on October 10, 2010, 08:24:51 pm
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: oldlaptop on October 10, 2010, 08:29:52 pm
Or what if the Process not being completed as intended messed with their mecha-crystal minds?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on October 10, 2010, 09:23:41 pm
What if the two species linked together was something that could never happen, therefore the two creatures minds went funny?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 10, 2010, 10:52:13 pm
Hey guys!

Looks like somebody posted the game on Reddit's gaming page. If you have an account, could we get an upvote from you guys so we can get more people who loved the original to see our demo?

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/dp89q/if_anyone_has_been_waiting_for_more_star_control/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/dp89q/if_anyone_has_been_waiting_for_more_star_control/)

Thanks a million! :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 10, 2010, 11:10:50 pm
What if they suddenly become pudding?

Come on everyone, this is a tad silly (Did I really just say that considering this game?)

Our creator says the story outline is already planed out which means he has a rough idea at the minimum of how this is going to play out. We only have a very limited taste of it (though based on what we have gotten, I am going to guess..... desire for peace + order of a machine = peace through any means)

I think there is a little over reading occurring here, we simply do not have enough to go on yet (The Orz could easily be the mastermind....or even the Zoq-Fot-Pik using Frungy as merely a cover to infiltrate our ranks!)

I think the most important question we should be asking right now is.......

Will the Black Spathi Squadron show up in this game because I think we have all been waiting to see that since it was first mentioned in 1992 :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Draxas on October 11, 2010, 03:52:50 am
I hope not. I adamantly refuse to believe that the Black Spathi Squadron will ever show up, because they're much funnier as a mere hypothetical organization.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: IceAge on October 12, 2010, 11:12:18 pm
THANK YOU TEAM!  Ive been playing for an hour now an i am really pleased with what i saw! magnificent job!

Maybe you could contact Zarla as she is the VUX expert :) maybe she could write some  xxxrated dialoge for the VUX ( LOL)

http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4456.0

Is there a need for a little financial donation tosupport this great project? Although i am not rich i would like to make a little donation,

Alarm goes in 6 hours so i must go to sleep but i cant  ;) i am to exited playing this demo  ;D

PS is there  a way to play it fullscreen ? ( maybe i ovelooked an option). Edit I found it it is in the settings section (stupid me)  :-[

Thanks again!
Many regards from The Netherlands.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on October 13, 2010, 01:45:35 am
THANK YOU TEAM!  Ive been playing for an hour now an i am really pleased with what i saw! magnificent job!

Maybe you could contact Zarla as she is the VUX expert :) maybe she could write some  xxxrated dialoge for the VUX ( LOL)

http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4456.0

Is there a need for a little financial donation tosupport this great project? Although i am not rich i would like to make a little donation,

Alarm goes in 6 hours so i must go to sleep but i cant  ;) i am to exited playing this demo  ;D

PS is there  a way to play it fullscreen ? ( maybe i ovelooked an option). Edit I found it it is in the settings section (stupid me)  :-[

Thanks again!
Many regards from The Netherlands.


It's people like you why I spend so many hours working on the game. So glad you like it!

As far as financial support. I'd rather you keep your own money and let others know about the game.

We're quite aware of Zarla! I'm a big fan of hers too. She's one of the people I follow on Deviant art, and I've seen the stuff on her website and frungylovers countless times. In fact, she sent me a message a couple days ago.  I'd love to see her join our team, but she's really busy.  I'm amazed she has any time at all.  If you look at the sheer volume of stuff she's done, you could almost imagine her never leaving her drawing tablet. She's amazing. :)



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 13, 2010, 05:02:11 am
Seriously wish I had a tenth of her talent......Looking at her dialog for Zex......I wonder if Zex is really is just Elmyra from Tiny Toons wearing a Vux outfit....I mean think about it, She always said

"I'm gonna hug you and kiss you and love you forever (and never use you up)".....This sounds an awful lot like Zex right down to the menagerie of creatures who do not want to be in it.  Those dolls he is playing with in her pics I think only add to this theory :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: IceAge on October 14, 2010, 02:53:03 am
It's people like you why I spend so many hours working on the game. So glad you like it!

As far as financial support. I'd rather you keep your own money and let others know about the game.

We're quite aware of Zarla! I'm a big fan of hers too. She's one of the people I follow on Deviant art, and I've seen the stuff on her website and frungylovers countless times. In fact, she sent me a message a couple days ago.  I'd love to see her join our team, but she's really busy.  I'm amazed she has any time at all.  If you look at the sheer volume of stuff she's done, you could almost imagine her never leaving her drawing tablet. She's amazing. :)


Well i am a very big Science Fiction Fan ( Vance , Niven , Heinlein, Bradburry etc etc!  Ok ill keep my money in my pocket but i would be honoured to buy pizza's for the team and a few beers!

Yep Zarla is amazing i think she might be the biggest fan ever for SC2  :D Her screenshot walktrough with her comments are so funny!
espacially her Vux edits and secret stuff  :P

I bought SC 2 when it came out and still have the original box CD and map. Hey team it must have been amazing news for you that Fred and Paul played you'r demo!

I hope they ore someone else have discovered LV 42 and Leutenent Ellen Ripley  ;)

Ok about the demo i almost had no bugs ( windows XP) a couple of time music didnt play ( espacially after leaving Sol ore in a meeting with the Melmorne. Also i noticed i could pick up biological data life ( found 2 new one's ( are there more?) Found the egg flowers and the frogs. If i shoot at minerals they vanish but dont show in a cargo bay  storage  ( hmmm would have loved to have a Cargo unit!.)  

(click to show/hide)

I really had a lot of fun playing this demo! Thank You!
I just started a new game again  ;)

Sorry for my english!

KEEP GOOING! it is great! and it feels really like playing  a sequel  already now 100 times better  as SC3 was .




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on October 14, 2010, 10:32:14 am
For the full screen, if you select this options in the setup, you then cat toggle using F11 (or at least in Unix build you can)

For Zarla's ZEX scene - she did some fake VUX screenshots, that I am unable to find now...


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: IceAge on October 14, 2010, 03:14:16 pm
For the full screen, if you select this options in the setup, you then cat toggle using F11 (or at least in Unix build you can)

For Zarla's ZEX scene - she did some fake VUX screenshots, that I am unable to find now...
TY i already found the fullscreen option  ;)

Zarla's screencaps and also her secret theater ( and more) are here->
  http://zarla.livejournal.com/192372.html    (http://zarla.livejournal.com/192372.html)

She also investigated all the homeworlds after the species are blasted away by the kohr an.
If you google on Zarla Vux ore Zarla Starcontrol  there is a lot you can find! ( some really nice clay puppets also)  ;D

Take care ( i am working so i have to log off)




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Guizot on October 18, 2010, 08:30:01 am
Curses… I appear to be very late with my comments, as all of my complaints have already been addressed!

In any case, I enjoyed the demo.

I am curious if you will incorporate internet play in the final product, as it may be entertaining to wield some of those new ships.

If Zarla does join your staff, I would take solace in your promise that the results do not become… well… too risqué. Zarla is notorious for a certain… provocative… writing style…

I would offer my assistance, but at the very most I can only produce subpar music and/or voice acting.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 18, 2010, 08:45:12 am
I am curious if you will incorporate internet play in the final product, as it may be entertaining to wield some of those new ships.

Yeah I should think so.

If Zarla does join your staff, I would take solace in your promise that the results do not become… well… too risqué. Zarla is notorious for a certain… provocative… writing style…

Woah, where did I promise it wouldn't be risque? Remember, we dont have censors to worry about!

I'm all good with provacative.  I already have a few naughty things in mind








Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 19, 2010, 05:50:04 am
Quote
Woah, where did I promise it wouldn't be risque? Remember, we dont have censors to worry about!

I'm all good with provacative.  I already have a few naughty things in mind

I am not wearing the dress despite what you say!

Quote
If Zarla does join your staff, I would take solace in your promise that the results do not become… well… too risqué. Zarla is notorious for a certain… provocative… writing style…

....yes and we all believe Talana turned the lights off and locked her quarters when you go off on that dangerous mission to give us some *cake*. :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on October 19, 2010, 03:45:12 pm
Someone let that redditer who got a zeroed blue channel know about the 'full screen' fix...


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on October 19, 2010, 08:44:25 pm
Someone let that redditer who got a zeroed blue channel know about the 'full screen' fix...

Yes, please! If someone's got an account, could you inform at Reddit that on OSX the colors work correctly in fullscreen mode.
(I couldn't for some reason make an account at Reddit with any browser, the joys of OSX I guess ;) )

I seem to have built the app against bogus SDL/SDL_image frameworks... using different version of them in the .app fixed the color issue. I'll use the better frameworks in the 0.1.1. release!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: lakota.james on October 19, 2010, 11:30:53 pm
Someone let that redditer who got a zeroed blue channel know about the 'full screen' fix...

Yes, please! If someone's got an account, could you inform at Reddit that on OSX the colors work correctly in fullscreen mode.
(I couldn't for some reason make an account at Reddit with any browser, the joys of OSX I guess ;) )

I seem to have built the app against bogus SDL/SDL_image frameworks... using different version of them in the .app fixed the color issue. I'll use the better frameworks in the 0.1.1. release!

I let them know.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 20, 2010, 12:51:16 am
Man, we have a heap of work in front of us. Especially in the graphics department. As well as a need for more artists, it would be useful to have people who were proficient at Photoshop (or Paintshop Pro or Gimp etc) to help convert the art into computer graphics. There will be a LOT of that to do. Lots of laborious image work.

In addition we’ll need voice actors, music composers, dialogue writers and programmers. A lot of the work will be mundane.

I am no good at voice acting or composing, but I am proficient in the use of GIMP.  I cannot do any of the coding nor animation, but if you need stuff resized, I would be very happy to contribute that way. I have great attention to detail and have patience to match. I am somewhat of a perfectionist, though, so I will take time.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 21, 2010, 05:58:17 am
So how goes the current progress?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 21, 2010, 07:00:18 am
So how goes the current progress?

We've just about finished dealing with all the bugs. When I say "we" I actually mean just about everyone other than me. I've been a bit slack. Anyway, we should have a version 0.1.1 (with Linux build) available in a couple of weeks

Unless you were asking about progress for v1.0, in which case we've hardly made a dent!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 21, 2010, 05:53:16 pm
Cedric... is there any possibility of getting mineral gathering back in any time soon?  Currently the alpha has a lot of nice story, but the gameplay is limited to "pick somewhere at random, talk to aliens, scan planets... oh we have to go back for fuel now".  I know this is supposed to be an alpha, but a version with mineral gathering would at least bring back some of that oh-so-compelling loot aspect, and give us a lot more to do while you guys work towards a 1.0 :D

As for what is there so far, it's almost like it's 1993 and playing SC2 for the first time again.  i.e. EXCELLENT WORK!  (I might be able to contribute some music btw... have a look at http://www.casimirsblake.co.uk )


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Quinarbre on October 21, 2010, 06:57:17 pm
NO.
YOUR SHIP IS AN EXPLORER VESSEL, IDEALLY SUITED TO THE TASK REQUIRED OF IT.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on October 21, 2010, 08:10:21 pm
Incidentally, is there ANY other RU source in game? I couldn't refill anywhere and ended up stranded at Procyon with like 15 crew and no escorts and 4 fuel. Slight exaggeration, but if there's a way to get more resources from the Chmmr, it eluded my (admittedly halfassed) attempt to find it.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on October 21, 2010, 08:28:07 pm
Yes, there is. It is called "memory editing".


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 21, 2010, 09:00:34 pm
It seems that fighting ships and giving biological data to the Melnorme are the two ways this alpha allows one to earn RU.  Better than nothing!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 21, 2010, 09:07:53 pm
Incidentally, is there ANY other RU source in game? I couldn't refill anywhere and ended up stranded at Procyon with like 15 crew and no escorts and 4 fuel. Slight exaggeration, but if there's a way to get more resources from the Chmmr, it eluded my (admittedly halfassed) attempt to find it.

Hi Death

Tthe only way of getting more fuel is to harvest some bio and sell to the melnorme - except apparently the melnorme is broken...

We'll have this fixed for 0.1.1

I think it will be good to go looking for some bio. You might come across some cool new stuff that noone else has seen before ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 21, 2010, 09:10:32 pm
It seems that fighting ships and giving biological data to the Melnorme are the two ways this alpha allows one to earn RU.  Better than nothing!

Yes that's right!

And The Chmmr have not given you this vessel so you can swan about getting minerals. They've given it to you to investigate something


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: ziper1221 on October 22, 2010, 12:52:19 am
the whole mod better not be exploring. I want a WARSHIP!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 22, 2010, 01:03:52 am
And The Chmmr have not given you this vessel so you can swan about getting minerals. They've given it to you to investigate something

Fair enough, but it seems a touch baffling and disagreeable to chop off a lump of gameplay in this way.  :-\


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 22, 2010, 03:18:39 am
And The Chmmr have not given you this vessel so you can swan about getting minerals. They've given it to you to investigate something

Fair enough, but it seems a touch baffling and disagreeable to chop off a lump of gameplay in this way.  :-\


I'm interested to know where you may have read about what kind of gameplay the final version of this game will or will not include. I dont really know what an "Alpha" is, but this is just a demo. There is really no reason for anyone to be baffled about anything. The demo has what it has, i.e about 5% of the stuff the final game will have.

The purpose of the demo was soley to inspire other talented individuals to get involved, and get a bit of hype going in the community. Its been successful on both counts.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 22, 2010, 10:58:24 am
I'm interested to know where you may have read about what kind of gameplay the final version of this game will or will not include.

Perhaps I should have stated that I was comparing the P6014 alpha's gameplay mechanics to those from SC2.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on October 22, 2010, 11:30:24 am
Perhaps I should have stated that I was comparing the P6014 alpha's gameplay mechanics to those from SC2.

As I understand it, the alpha is the first rough release of a program, eventually followed by a  stabler beta and then afairly stable RC (Release Candidate) before progressing to 1.0. This isn't an alpha though, it is a demo. That's a different animal, not a version 0.01 of something. Game demos show off some game functionality but not necessarily all. For instance, the demo for the original Warcraft was three levels, the third of which was completely unwinnable and designed to simply kill you. That never appeared in the full game, unsurprisingly.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on October 22, 2010, 12:26:30 pm
I like the lack of mining. From a modern-day-game perspective, mining is tedious, boring and uneventful. Besides, it doesn't make a lot of sense in the game, as the Chmmr should have almost unlimited resources available.

Nevertheless, there should obviously be a way to get additional RU or fuel if the player requires them. Personally, I'd think that a kind of "ration/limited" system (where the player is always able to load his fuel tanks, but he can only carry X fuel each time, or he can only buy X fuel every Y months) could be interesting to limit the player in where he can go, and gradually increase that by having the Chmmr assign more resources to the player as they see fit.

As far as your music goes, chischis: I like it. It's actually been part of my regular playlist for quite a while (I get a lot of it off of Kahvi).. :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 22, 2010, 12:58:03 pm
Thanks Megagun, though I'm a touch disappointed by the defensiveness of these comments.  Was I at any point berating or otherwise making personal attacks towards Cedric and his team?  I merely expressed an opinion, and if the final game still doesn't have mineral gathering then, well, so be it.  I simply hope that this will be kept in mind as the team work to balance the other RU-gathering methods to make up for the lack of "mining", which I do miss.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on October 22, 2010, 08:06:47 pm
the whole mod better not be exploring. I want a WARSHIP!

Yes! A fully-equipped warship with guns filling every exterior surface! We need to be armed to the teeth.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 22, 2010, 08:17:30 pm
Thanks Megagun, though I'm a touch disappointed by the defensiveness of these comments.  Was I at any point berating or otherwise making personal attacks towards Cedric and his team?  I merely expressed an opinion, and if the final game still doesn't have mineral gathering then, well, so be it.  I simply hope that this will be kept in mind as the team work to balance the other RU-gathering methods to make up for the lack of "mining", which I do miss.

My apologies if I came across as overly defensive. You found something disagreeable and so I was trying to reassure you that what is in the demo game play-wise is not representative of how 95% of the final game will be played.

Trouble is, game game play is intertwined with story to a higher degree than the original so I cant really reveal all the cool gameplay aspects that we're planning without giving away story spoilers.

There is my delemma!







Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 23, 2010, 02:22:10 am
In all fairness guys, we shouldn't pressure to much for story info. I mean we have been waiting what (Checks Watch) 18 years almost for a true sequel?  I think we can handle a little more waiting on it :)

Oh but since everyone is making demands, I want an option to tell the Kor-ah that "I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." :)

I could live without a warship as long as this line finds it's way into the game (always wanted to tell a n enemy this when they ask who I am) :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: evktalo on October 23, 2010, 09:54:48 am
I played the demo a bit, and was impressed. Congrats to the team! The new graphics fit right in (intro was a pretty good showcase, great way to start with), as did the dialogue. It did feel like playing a sequel.

(click to show/hide)

Good work so far, hope the ball keeps rolling!

--Eino


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on October 23, 2010, 10:04:51 am
(click to show/hide)
--Eino

Well, the Shofixti
 
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Psyckosama on October 23, 2010, 11:10:49 am
(click to show/hide)
--Eino

Well, the Shofixti
 
(click to show/hide)


Thou shalt not be snarky to thine savior.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 25, 2010, 03:08:53 am
Personally I think they should be honoring me as a god each time I see them. I could have always sold the women to the druge and gotten that first class ticket to hell in SCII :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: synikk on October 25, 2010, 07:12:44 am
I only played about 10minutes of this but it is AMAZING!!!  The redone earthling music was so incredible.  Great fn job.  This is what ive been waiting for since 1990 <3   Can't wait for more star control continuances :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on October 25, 2010, 08:42:42 am
I only played about 10minutes of this but it is AMAZING!!!  The redone earthling music was so incredible.  Great fn job.  This is what ive been waiting for since 1990 <3   Can't wait for more star control continuances :)

Great that you're enjoying it!

But I dont think we can take credit for the Earthling tune. that would be one of the Precursor remixes


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Malrunus on October 26, 2010, 05:14:27 am
I was playing WoW the other day and did some PvP battlegrounds.  Came across a character named "Chenjesu".  Made his day methinks by telling him about this project.  Its good to see random fans out and about like that.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chischis on October 26, 2010, 02:24:14 pm
My apologies if I came across as overly defensive. You found something disagreeable and so I was trying to reassure you that what is in the demo game play-wise is not representative of how 95% of the final game will be played.

Trouble is, game game play is intertwined with story to a higher degree than the original so I cant really reveal all the cool gameplay aspects that we're planning without giving away story spoilers.

There is my delemma!

It's likely that it was the same-old "text sucks" problem when having a debate, Cedric.  So thanks, but I think it was a misunderstanding - I'm definitely a sucker for the explore and horde "dungeon-crawl" type of gameplay so perhaps that might explain my feelings. (And my addiction to Minecraft, gah!) :)  I am very much looking forward to WHATEVER form of Project6014 is released in future.  This is the closest the Star Control 2 fan-base has come to seeing some sort of proper sequel to the game, so perhaps I'm not the only one nearly frothing at the mouth to play this!  And yes, no spoilers wanted or needed. ;)  Good luck!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on October 26, 2010, 09:10:15 pm
So based on what you have done so far Cedric, how far out are we thinking until we have a beta stage game ready for full gameplay testing? (Just a rough guess to keep the frothing ones from get saliva all over the floor :) )

Also when are we going to looking for people to do the non story and gameplay stuff (Voices, Music, Popcorn Makers, etc.)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: unity100 on November 12, 2010, 01:17:28 pm
yes i think story info should never be given out, and the people who are writing and coding the story should be hiding it even from the people coding other parts of the project, so that the fun wont be spoiled.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release - v0.1.1
Post by: Cedric6014 on November 19, 2010, 02:02:44 am
The ever-growing Project 6014 team is pleased to release an improved version of the demo.

Changes include:
  • A Linux installer!!!
  • Heaps of bug fixes
  • Heaps of inconsistency fixes
  • A few animation fixes
  • Much improved playability of Lurg Prawn and Chmmr Explorer
  • One or two other neat surprises

You can get the new stuff here:
http://code.google.com/p/project6014/wiki/Downloads?ts=1290128106&updated=Downloads

Sing out if you have technical issues.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on November 19, 2010, 02:07:00 am
Yay! I've been enjoying the new Melee stuff myself. I really like some of the changes made there.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 19, 2010, 05:48:38 am
Perfect timing Cedric! I am doing a Retro game review for gameforums.com and I chose Star Control 2 as the game. I decided if i was going to do a retro review, it should be of one that still has an active community.

With a little luck, I should have that video out tomorrow night, without it, Saturday night (Already have the script written, just need to shoot the video :) )

Loading it right now. can't wait to play it :)

Updated:

Lurg seem much more hellbent on using the sub weapon over the main. In a Lurg on Lurg fight, he refused to ever close the gap until I used the planet to finally force it closed. Great job fixing their ships weapons though, much better now. Same goes for the Explorer, now she feels like a ship i can fight with.

The ISD is a nice touch, is that just for fighting or is their a chance of seeing Darth run around the galaxy? :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on November 19, 2010, 07:39:21 am
I can't wait to see that video. Please share with us when you finish it :)

No. the ISD is just something I always thought would be fun to see in Star Control. It's a Melee only thing. I think it's my new favorite ship to play as..  Reminds me of the CHMMR  and Dreadnaught. Big brawler ships.  I'm really hoping others like it as much as I do.

The Lurg are frustrating for me to fight against. It forces you to play on its terms. Which usually means going through the bubbles and leaving yourself open to attack.  I guess that kinda fits with the Lurg mentality.  Some may enjoy playing them, but I prefer ships like the CHMMR, Arilou, or Spathi. It does feel really good when I blast them away though.  I can see them being as irritating to fight against as the Vux or that Yehat that resurrects 4 times.   :-\   But, I have a friend who just loves playing against me with it because he knows he can frustrate the hell out of me.   I love the Explorer's secondary weapon now.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on November 19, 2010, 07:30:12 pm
Anyone using the Linux build, please let me know how well it works and what distro + architecture (x86 32-bit or x64 64-bit) you're using.

I hope to have a more neat installer done by the next release (and maybe even for this release) plus maybe some packages for the most popular distributions (probably just Ubuntu and Ubuntu 64-bit)...

Thanks.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on November 20, 2010, 08:25:43 am
Actually, I am using Ubuntu Linux, but I didn't bother with the installer. I just put the music, content, and voice packages in the content/packages directory myself. It works very well now.

I nearly couldn't believe my eyes when I checked the ISD out for myself in Super Melee! It is a very good addition to the "behemoth" line of ships. Though, you might want to fix the rotations. They look a little sloppy.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 20, 2010, 10:09:45 pm
The review should be going up in a few hours but I have a fast request if someone can fill it before 7pm today.

I am mixing star control music into the review but I can't open the files of the game to grab the songs directly and the format on the net is .mod which is incompatible with the software and I can't convert it.

I just need the original Hyperspace music file in either wave or mp3 format. Can anyone send me a link to where i can find this or send me the file through email?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on November 20, 2010, 10:23:52 pm
I have the Star Control intro music, the 'in orbit' music, the space music in mp3 formats. Just send an email to my username@gmail.com    I think I can get you the hyperspace music too. It would require some work on my part though.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: oldlaptop on November 20, 2010, 10:31:06 pm
The game's data files are really just renamed .zips, so you can change the extension to .zip and extract as usual -  but the plain PC version music is still in MOD format, you will either have to use the 3DO remixes (which are in Ogg Vorbis format) or figure out how to convert the .MODs.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 20, 2010, 10:49:41 pm
Thanks for the help guys, i think i found a way to switch it to MP3. Video should be up in a couple of hours.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on November 20, 2010, 10:53:08 pm
Cool.  You mind sharing how?

I have 2 minutes of it in mp3. I found a program but it will only convert 60 percent of the file without paying $20. (really. charging $20 to convert  a mod file??)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: oldlaptop on November 20, 2010, 11:17:19 pm
MikMod (http://mikmod.raphnet.net/) works fairly well, it's a MOD player that can save its output as WAV. Unfortunately they don't have any binaries for download, only source code...   :-\


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 21, 2010, 04:03:01 am
Code:
Cool.  You mind sharing how?

Played the game and once I entered Hyperspace, I used an audio patch cable to link the microphone jack to the headphone jack and recorded a few minutes in Hyperspace with Audacity.

Anyway the review is up! Hope you guys enjoy it. Had to break it into two parts (Bloody youtube restrictions!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx36ZHbzE4 (Part I)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecieeLXriaY (Part II)

Hope it brings some new fans over here too :)

Oh I should note, I share the channel with a few others from that website, only the Retro Check videos are mine. The rest belong to DJ who manages the channel.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Brent2 on November 21, 2010, 04:37:14 am
[code
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx36ZHbzE4 (Part I)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecieeLXriaY (Part II)


Oooo.  I even got that nostalgic feeling I normally only get when playing the game itself.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: IceAge on November 22, 2010, 03:53:49 am
Code:
Cool.  You mind sharing how?

Played the game and once I entered Hyperspace, I used an audio patch cable to link the microphone jack to the headphone jack and recorded a few minutes in Hyperspace with Audacity.

Anyway the review is up! Hope you guys enjoy it. Had to break it into two parts (Bloody youtube restrictions!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx36ZHbzE4 (Part I)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecieeLXriaY (Part II)

Hope it brings some new fans over here too :)


I liked it .


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: IceAge on November 22, 2010, 04:00:41 am
Hi,
I am playing now several hours!  ;) I love it that the Melmorne now do sell fuel to you in exchange for biological data.

This is not a mod..... This is a SEQUEL!  I love it , it does bring all the old feelings of weeks ( months) playing, but yet its a complete new universe, a new quest and a new challenge and yet it feels so familiair.

I hope i will find a pod ship somewere with Ellen Ripley in it, a Pod ship with Zarla , and a Hi-jacked URquan ship with Fred Ford and Paul Reiche on it that needed to leave earth  in a ship to create a sequel to their game, and for dooing that had to experience this universe themselves.

Also I hope to find a surviving Culture 98 Traddash that survived all the Illwrath and civil wars and i hope this Traddash brave warrior will smoke a cigar :)

Again i wish to make my compliments to Cedric and the team!  and i repeat.. i will be honoured to buy you guys a pizza and a beer.


Take care
Regards from the Netherlands.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on November 22, 2010, 04:36:31 am
Culture 98? Are you mad? These sweeping cultural changes take time!

I hope to find Thraddash Culture 21 or maybe 22.

I look forward to killing Chmmr (bad guys or not, I hate them all anyway).


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 22, 2010, 07:06:20 am
Maybe the Thraddash can't count? They were not exactly the brightest bunch of thugs.

Personally I want to run into the Black Spathi Squadron and hear what a Spathi sounds like when he talks tough.....I get the image of a Spathi with camo makeup on his face with that really forced tough guy tone you here from the 8 year old who just saw his first war movie.

Quote
Oooo.  I even got that nostalgic feeling I normally only get when playing the game itself.


Quote
I liked it .


Thanks guys. Wish i could have done more screens but I had to resort to whatever I can get off the google search (Didn't occur to me to use a tool assist to make the game go fast until after i finished rendering the video, have to try that on the next review like this one.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on November 22, 2010, 07:14:56 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx36ZHbzE4 (Part I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecieeLXriaY (Part II)

Hope it brings some new fans over here too :)

Thanks for the plug! I think it might hae made some sort of impact as there has been a big spike in visits to the download pages since you posted that link


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on November 22, 2010, 11:01:28 am
... and a Hi-jacked URquan ship with Fred Ford and Paul Reiche on it that needed to leave earth  in a ship to create a sequel to their game, and for dooing that had to experience this universe themselves...

Space Quest's two guys from Andromeda?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 22, 2010, 09:31:09 pm
Quote
Thanks for the plug! I think it might hae made some sort of impact as there has been a big spike in visits to the download pages since you posted that link

Your welcome and awesome. I hope a few of those who find their way here can help out. Need to remind this modern gaming generation that the old games were truly some of the best after all :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on November 22, 2010, 09:59:50 pm
Most people who follow the PNF probably know about P6014 already, but I figured it wouldn't help to give this a news post (http://www.star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=357) as well.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 23, 2010, 06:47:55 am
Quote
Most people who follow the PNF probably know about P6014 already, but I figured it wouldn't help to give this a news post as well.

Thank you. Can you do me a favor though
Quote
is this his real voice or is this guy faking it / deliberately speaking softly? :D

Can you just tell him yes that is my real voice however I was speaking softly. I have been sick the last couple of weeks with a chest cold and I kept coughing each time I tired speaking normally. Since i am trying to keep to that every two weeks time table, I kind of forced myself to give that review a few days before i was really ready to do recording :).

If it make him feel better, next review I will do some voice changing for him (I almost have a decent Orz voice through one of my programs)  ;D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on November 23, 2010, 12:28:31 pm
Most people who follow the PNF probably know about P6014 already, but I figured it wouldn't help to give this a news post (http://www.star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=357) as well.

If it wouldn't help, why did you post it? :P


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on November 23, 2010, 12:40:08 pm
Well, even native English speakers do slip from time to time, it is obvious Luki meant "wouldn't hurt".


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on November 23, 2010, 04:28:11 pm
Can you just tell him yes that is my real voice however I was speaking softly. I have been sick the last couple of weeks with a chest cold and I kept coughing each time I tired speaking normally. Since i am trying to keep to that every two weeks time table, I kind of forced myself to give that review a few days before i was really ready to do recording :).

If it make him feel better, next review I will do some voice changing for him (I almost have a decent Orz voice through one of my programs)  ;D

Sorry, I'm not really big on delivering messages unless I get paid to :) The way I see it you have three options.

A. Register at the SCDB and tell him yourself.
B. Make use of the feature that allows guests to post in the SCDB news topics and tell him yourself
C. Assume that since he vistis this board as well, he'll eventually see your explanation here. Writing "tvp" might help.

And yes, I meant couldn't hurt.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: chenjesuwizard on November 23, 2010, 11:08:21 pm
Luki, is your first language English or not? I swear it wasn't.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 24, 2010, 03:22:12 am
Quote
Sorry, I'm not really big on delivering messages unless I get paid to Smiley The way I see it you have three options.

lol spoken like a true mercenary. My gaming mates would like you.

I'll go with option 3 for now. I barely have time to keep up with the forums i post on let alone joining another one :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: ziper1221 on November 24, 2010, 04:36:48 am
What is tvp? terran vs protoss?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: TorNis on November 24, 2010, 05:17:33 pm
Haha. Maybe.
Where are Zerg then?

Btw, I am impressed with this fan-made mode.
Any jobs available?

P.S. Have you showed this to SC II creators?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: dczanik on November 24, 2010, 05:48:49 pm
The Zerg were eaten by the Lurg.  Talking about the game makes me want to start playing Starcraft 2 again. Working on this mod destroyed my gaming/free time.

We could always use some additional artists and programmers on the team.  Contact Cedric for more info.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on November 24, 2010, 06:54:31 pm
Fred commented about the project on SCDB.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on November 24, 2010, 07:53:17 pm

Btw, I am impressed with this fan-made mode.
Any jobs available?

P.S. Have you showed this to SC II creators?

Artists artists artists.  Its cool art that realy fires everyone else up.

We dont need writers and story ideas

Yeah Fred and Paul have played it - they made an encouraging comment somewhere - I think on the SCDB forum.

Did I say we need artists? And we probably need anyone with graphics skills - 3D modelling even


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on November 24, 2010, 10:23:40 pm
What is tvp? terran vs protoss?

It's some thing dutch people put in their posts to be able to search for them later on apparently. The translation is something along the line of "post I'd like to find".  So putting tvp in a post means if Angelfish is trying to search for something, your post might well come up.

And yes, Fred Ford posted on the SCDB about this game. And the SC comics. And some other SC stuff.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: TorNis on November 25, 2010, 10:20:09 am
What is their nicknames there, I can't find it.

Quote
Artists artists artists.  Its cool art that realy fires everyone else up.
Artist, who can make old-school ghaphics patterns like in Ur-Quan Masters that is.
Too bad I can't do it.

Though I will be tester then :)

I like the new music better then in 3DO version. Especially Hyper Space. Original remix :)
Question: Why Lurg theme music was in Content package, but not in music?

Btw, have you thought about Voice Acting(new + old races)?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on November 25, 2010, 11:05:41 am
His nickname is, surprisingly, Fred. He's got seven posts under his belt, making him a ZExy Beast


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on November 25, 2010, 08:09:15 pm
Tornis:

Its not necesaily old-school graphics we're after. We start with high resolution. One of our team is also making a Hi-Def mod so we're pooling resources.

We hae one really good voice actor at the moment, but we will need some more no doubt


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: superbutcherx on November 25, 2010, 09:56:57 pm
Question: Why Lurg theme music was in Content package, but not in music?

Btw, have you thought about Voice Acting(new + old races)?
The content package contains the absolute minimum art+music that are required to run the game. This includes the old '92 .MOD music from original UQM for all the old races. There is no .MOD for the Lurg, obviously, so their .ogg theme song has to be there in the contents.
The music package is an add-on that you can really do without, if you are willing to play with music of lesser quality.

We're lucky to have a very talented voice actor on board - Themistercat who composed the Lurg song also did the kick-ass Lurg voice dialogue. I think we are (meaning Themistercat and other skilled people we can get onboard) going to do voice acting for the other races as well!


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on November 25, 2010, 10:00:40 pm
We'll need a female voice. Anyone know any females?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on November 26, 2010, 02:43:36 am
I'd love a crack at voice acting!

Quote
We'll need a female voice. Anyone know any females?

Depends on what you are looking for, sexy sounding, cute, silly, etc. Are you looking to just replace the syreen voice or is this for more then one female in different races?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Brent2 on November 26, 2010, 06:07:56 am

Quote
We'll need a female voice. Anyone know any females?

Depends on what you are looking for, sexy sounding, cute, silly, etc. Are you looking to just replace the syreen voice or is this for more then one female in different races?

We could always assume the Melnorme trader is female.


I've done some voice acting and have my degree in audio engineering.  I'm not sure I could get a lot of women to sign on but could probably get a couple.  The Yehat, along with any race that needs a Russian accent, would be easy.

Matching existing characters is the hard part.  Commander Hayes, as a previous character and a current one, would be the most difficult.  Minor fluctuations to Greenish's voice would be less obvious, though the issue is similar.  I do know an expert who might be able to point me in the right direction, though I expect I'd need to find a similar voice to start with.

The rest could easily be new characters and just need to match cadence, general accent and general mood.  Those would obviously be the easiest.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on November 26, 2010, 08:28:36 am
One reminder: Please make sure that the voice acting is of decent quality, not like most of the voice acting in SC2's 3do version :).


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on November 26, 2010, 01:46:17 pm
One reminder: Please make sure that the voice acting is of decent quality, not like most of the voice acting in SC2's 3do version :).

At the same time please make sure story/coding/sound fx/dialogue is of decent quality kthx. I don't want no low quality mod! :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: TorNis on November 26, 2010, 02:48:52 pm
Once you starting picking people for race acting, please give a shoutout.
I am good voice actor. Have experience in it since I was doing unofficial dubbing for TV series for fans to my home language.
Also we need race voice filters for this one, right? Or all by yourself?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on December 02, 2010, 09:15:55 pm
One reminder: Please make sure that the voice acting is of decent quality, not like most of the voice acting in SC2's 3do version :).


I’m pretty happy with our current voice actor. I don’t think we could have got anyone better. Having said that I’d be thrilled if we could match the quality of the 3DO. They voice acted for at least 24 different parts, most of which I thought were pretty good.

We’ll be creating a dozen new voices, and trying to recreate about a half a dozen old voices.

Frankly I don’t think we’ll have the resources to be able to match the output of the 3DO version so you may be disappointed with the final product.

Story is one other area where I don’t hope to match PR3, but I’m confident every other aspect (art, graphics, sound etc) will be on par with the original.

Remember, we’re not professionals. If we can recapture the feeling of the original then its mission accomplished


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on December 03, 2010, 06:58:40 am
Matching the quality of the 3DO voices shouldn't be all that difficult to do. The people behind the 3DO voices were not hired professionals. Once Project 6014 gains enough momentum and skilled manpower, and especially considering the technological advances since the year 1992, you will no doubt be able to surpass the original 3DO voices.

Still, if you cannot match the original in terms of story, why not take a somewhat different approach? I think it may be fairly pointless to try taking the original game and adding flashy new features. You might end up like Master of Orion's successors. In the end, too many incongruent features were glued together. Star Control I stood out thanks to its innovative combination of exciting battles and intellectually engaging strategical elements. Star Control II stood out (like a glorious skyscraper) thanks to its unique races, superior story, and more. Originality is what made those games great. I believe originality will make Project 6014 appeal to newcomers and existing fans alike.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on December 03, 2010, 03:18:26 pm
Quote
You might end up like Master of Orion's successors.

Ever notice how the great Sci Fi epics of that era were always killed by the 3rd release which was never the original team?

Star Control 1 = Great , Star Control 2 = Awesome! Star Control 3 = Needles in the eyes bad
Master of Orion = Awesome, Masters of Orion 2 = Awesome, Masters of Orion 3 = Needles in the eyes bad

If we got a decent voice changer or a few people with good voice talents, I think all will turn out great (I tried making my voice shofitix with some tweaks in Audacity the other night and came off like a really hyperactive sounding one voiced by Alvin and the chipmunks :) )

Quote
Originality is what made those games great. I believe originality will make Project 6014 appeal to newcomers and existing fans alike.

Agreed and it is what drew me here in the first place.

Now all I want is to mod my ship (preferably with the Master of Orion Death Ray but Hellbores will do :) )


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Neonlare on December 05, 2010, 01:19:02 am
Hello, I remember this project kicking back around a while ago on the forums. I wanted to help out with it, but things seemed to have gone silent for a while here, so I took a long hiatus. It's amazing to see what you guys have done with this so far, it really is incredible. I just saw the Lurg introduction video on Youtube and had my mind blown, this has some serious polish to it so far. May I ask if there's still a chance that I could help out or contribute in one way shape or form? It looked amazing from the start, and looks even more so now. I'm currently downloading the demo, I hope there's more wow-factors inside! :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: mattman90 on December 07, 2010, 06:06:16 pm
Just wanted to say thanks for this awesome demo! Hope to see a full game soon.  SC2  (UQM) is my fav game of all time, and I am currently giving it another run through on my Wii.  This game will live on forever.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Duranki on December 10, 2010, 02:15:52 am
I was going through my old bookmarks and ran across this forum, that I haven't visited in probably 6 years.  I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd find THIS.

When I saw there was a demo for this new Project 6014, I figured, "Why not? It can't run worse than TimeWarp." My friend and I have been reminiscing about the joys of Super Melee, wondering why no one ever made a good network play-enabled version.  So of course, first time I figured up the demo, Super Melee was the first thing I checked out.  Not only did it play well, crash and bug-free, but it seems to have internet support??

Then I went back to the main menu and started a new game.  Within minutes I felt like I'd entered an alternate dimension where Fred Ford and Paule Reiche III got to make a proper Star Control 3.  You nailed it.  The intro movie gave me the same tingle SC2's did, back when I was a kid.  The art made me do a double-take; I know a lot of this has to be original stuff, but you mimicked the art style PERFECTLY.  Likewise, while I recognize a lot of the original music/remixes, I think there's a few new tracks in here, too?

Then I discovered the graphics options.  I never thought I'd see hi-res Star Control.  So nice.

I was talking to the Earth starbase commander about what all the alien races have been up to, and before he could finish I had to save, quit, register, and post.  If your team carries on with this same level of quality and polish--and from what you've shown us with this demo, I have absolutely no doubt that this will be the case--we will finally have the sequel we've been waiting 18 years for.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.  Star Control 2 remains my favorite game of all time, and this demo stirred feelings I haven't felt since 1992.  Just.....wow.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on December 10, 2010, 03:12:03 am
Then I discovered the graphics options.  I never thought I'd see hi-res Star Control.  So nice.

You mean using scalers? That exists in UQM 0.6.2 and all current scalers have existed since v0.5.

And network play... also exists in UQM 0.6.2, which means it's been there for almost 4 years (version 0.6.0, the first to have NetMelee, was released in Dec 2006). It gets played all the time, with games set up on #uqm-arena (IRC). Plus, there's another mod based on v0.6.2 designed specifically for net-melee, made by Shiver (with help from others).


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Duranki on December 10, 2010, 03:44:12 am
You mean using scalers? That exists in UQM 0.6.2 and all current scalers have existed since v0.5.

And network play... also exists in UQM 0.6.2, which means it's been there for almost 4 years (version 0.6.0, the first to have NetMelee, was released in Dec 2006). It gets played all the time, with games set up on #uqm-arena (IRC). Plus, there's another mod based on v0.6.2 designed specifically for net-melee, made by Shiver (with help from others).

Thanks for the corrections! I never played UQM, as I'd played the original PC and 3DO versions, so the whole package is a bit new to me.  Everything else I said about the project still stands :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on December 10, 2010, 03:47:45 am
Hey there Duranki,

What a great post to read! I’m glad that we have managed to capture some of the original feeling of the original – that it our number 1 aim.

That is why we opted for a mod rather than a whole new engine as there is something atmospheric about the user interface and game play that we didn’t want to mess with.

Now the tough bit – crafting a story that can do the world of Star Control some justice.

Thanks for your encouragement. Posts like that really fire up the team.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Ostro Bothnia on December 13, 2010, 08:47:58 pm
Seems good. Loved original and I am really, no, REALLY skeptical about this, but I'll try it out. Seems good


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on December 15, 2010, 04:50:57 pm
So, does it seem good, or not? You double emphasized both points.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Ostro Bothnia on December 16, 2010, 05:53:33 pm
So, does it seem good, or not? You double emphasized both points.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I try to avoid discrepancy.

So far so good, haven't got far and I haven't encountered any bugs, good work


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Vindicator on January 03, 2011, 03:13:36 am
After I played the demo (spending 2 hours instead of a few minutes like I expected to), I was so entranced that I read all 33 pages of the star-control.com thread and this one as well.

There's not much I can tell you that hasn't already been said.

The opening image of the Chmrr starbase was incredible, and exactly what you'd expect, and the Chmrr fleet and Unzervalt images look like they came from TFB. (And I can't distinguish the Vux drawing from something that would have been in the manual or original game.)

I would second every positive comment that you received about every attribute of the game.

I thought I would contribute by seeing if there is anything I can say on the issues of contention.

Here's what I came up with:

1. The Syreen zoom is "annoying" but also really cool.

It was really cool the first few times, but then it got a little tiresome or distracting.

I think the starship commander's zoom is more appropriate than the planetary commander's.
The planetary one is too jarring, IMO.

I think one way to deal with the zoom is to make it perhaps less common - only for special situations. There may be some dialog in which you wish to emphasize the speaker's emotions or a certain point, and you could zoom then.

That way, the zoom would have more of an impact.

I would be comfortable with the starship commander's zoom being used more regularly than the planetary example, since it seems to fit the pace and tempo of the encounter. Gaia could perhaps be more laid back.


2. I am not so sure about the Shofixti eyes, either. Maybe different Shofixti have different coloured left eyes, just like Earthling captains have different hair? The current setup does add flair, however.


3. It's kinda bothersome that the Chmrr didn't just pay the Melnorme for the information. Perhaps this is an example of the Chmrr's contemptuous attitude? Or perhaps the Melnorme are frustrated with the Chmrr, and would rather talk to you - building you up instead of the Chmrr.


4. I found the flagship's primary weapon rather sucky. I figure you'll have mods for it though. I was really hoping when I pressed the trigger that a Chejensu crystal would come flying out.

If you want to get really crazy, imagine a weapons layout reflecting the Chmrr combination - a primary crystal torpedo, and a secondary laser. If you hit your torpedo with the laser, it explodes with even more power! The Melnorme scrambler weapon could be activated by a tertiary key combo, and could be a weapon that needs to be researched first. Anyway, this is a pretty crazy idea and I only mention it because it's the first thing that came to mind.

The rationale you have for the existing weapons layout and modules makes sense anyway.

5. I don't want to get too into the fat Syreen debate, but I second the idea, if including her, that you be given "friendly" or passively-sarcastic dialog options with her. [i.e. you want to understand more about her, but don't phrase it in a hostile way.]


Other comments:

-I figure the Yehat should have a base and possibly the VUX (making for some interesting dialog options.)

-Resource gathering: I know this is the demo, so you haven't really been able to integrate it yet, but the presence of minerals on scans makes one want to mine them (especially in the absence of really viable resource-gathering options.)

I agree with the suggestion to have minerals available to mine, but with an algorithm to remove the most valuable ones that Zelnick would have already mined in SC2.

Another idea is to have the Starbase give you 1000 RU every month, or something - you can resource from the bases instead of vice versa.*

Since there appears to be a higher emphasis in this game on diplomacy, maybe good diplomacy, sharing of information between races, courier duties, etc... could get you resources. Even escort missions for the freighter, if possible.

*Maybe the Alliance can only spare X dollars per month because of the mopping-up operations.

Maybe protecting trade convoys nets you more money.

So, mining can be used as a supplement for income.

-It's probably going to need more VUX. Who knows, perhaps ZEX lived inside the belly of that beast, and has emerged to command his modified Intruder somewhere.

-Although I enjoyed hunting down the alien homeworlds in the demo, might as well show spheres of influence for allied races, after all, the captain would be briefed on them and familiar with them.

-There are too many Chmrr in the initial system, and possibly too many intercepts.

-I was kinda hoping for a moonbase. I figure you probably haven't had time to implement that, if you were planning to, but I can second the idea.

-Regarding the ZEX thing above, I'm sure it could be a harmless secret encounter / easter egg. After all, it's not like TFB were going to pick up on that plot anyway. Game canon thinks he's dead  ;D


Anyway, these are all minor nitpicks. The game is really meeting the highest expectations I could have set out for it when reading about in 2009. I feel that I am exploring the section of the universe that we didn't get to see in SC2.


Things that would be cool

(click to show/hide)


I know I had a lot to say, but you have done such a great job that it has stimulated a lot of discussion.




Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 06, 2011, 09:50:50 am
A question for anyone who's played the demo.

Does anyone have examples where we may have contradicted canon? We're trying to make it so it doesn't.



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Angelfish on January 06, 2011, 10:39:41 pm
A question for anyone who's played the demo.

Does anyone have examples where we may have contradicted canon? We're trying to make it so it doesn't.



To do that you first need to tell us how do you define canon :).
Because some of us only look at SC2, or also at SC3, or also at the things said by creators etc :D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: storyyeller on January 07, 2011, 03:12:42 am
Doesn't SC3 pretty much contradict all of SC2 anyway?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 07, 2011, 03:32:43 am
Canon being the events of SC1 and 2 only, plus anything revealed by the creators that may not contradict said events


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on January 07, 2011, 03:51:46 am
Doesn't SC3 pretty much contradict all of SC2 anyway?

Not that I can think of. But SC3 is definitely not general-purpose Star Control canon any more than Interbellum is, and no attempt has been made to be compatible with it, so that's fine.

(they are of course canon for purposes of themselves)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on January 07, 2011, 09:41:16 am
There isn't much of SC1 that can be contradicted...


I have only met one very minor contradiction: the intro states Zelnick has retired, but on the pic with Talana they both wear their uniforms (as far as Talana's outfit can be called that).


Have an idea, though - I don't think that at the end of SC2 Zelnick would have absolutely all his Melnorme credits spent, so it could be a nice touch and a feeling of continuity, if Melnorme would mention "You still have xx credits" with some insignificant amount.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 07, 2011, 12:28:02 pm
There isn't much of SC1 that can be contradicted...


I have only met one very minor contradiction: the intro states Zelnick has retired, but on the pic with Talana they both wear their uniforms (as far as Talana's outfit can be called that).


Have an idea, though - I don't think that at the end of SC2 Zelnick would have absolutely all his Melnorme credits spent, so it could be a nice touch and a feeling of continuity, if Melnorme would mention "You still have xx credits" with some insignificant amount.

"How many credits do I have?"

"42."


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Admiral Zeratul on January 07, 2011, 06:30:17 pm
I have only met one very minor contradiction: the intro states Zelnick has retired, but on the pic with Talana they both wear their uniforms (as far as Talana's outfit can be called that).

Perhaps Zelnick just thinks it makes him look cool and thus never parted with it?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on January 07, 2011, 09:35:34 pm
Perhaps Zelnick just thinks it makes him look cool and thus never parted with it?

Have you been in the army? Nobody thinks uniform is cool after half a year at most...


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 08, 2011, 07:14:32 am
If you managed to get a hot girlfriend like Talana while wearing that uniform, would you really risk ever taking it off?

I like the 42 idea with the Melnorme as remaining credits left over, otherwise I have noted any contradictions so far.

Any news on the next update so far Cedric?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on January 08, 2011, 08:16:33 am
If you managed to get a hot girlfriend like Talana while wearing that uniform, would you really risk ever taking it off?

Good point.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Elerium on January 09, 2011, 03:02:29 am
So I found the Lurg on Youtube..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBof9enfm_8&feature=related

Excellent to see these dudes, especially the "you can feel it in the back of your mind can't you!". TMC also did a good voice for these aliens although I think they need to sound more brutal, like evil calculating thinkers. Some thoughts:

They seem to say "die" a lot, I think I had my fair share of "die" from the Druuge and Kohr-ah..
They easily get down to questions even though it should be of no concern to them, other SC2 species for example had it really tough to get hostile aliens to say stuff, with the exception of Ilwrath, Thraddash and the Spathi who had flaws such as pride and cowardice that the Captain could turn against them. The Ur-Quan required something that resonated with their trauma before they told you anything genuinely.

Things I did like-
Mycon quote, although as a little reworking to throw my $2 to see if it sounds better, it was in my head at the time:
"Human flesh, you are not as powerful as you would like to believe. If we wanted you dead, we could have let the Mycon destroy your world a thousand years ago as you embroiled within the darkness of what was barely a civilization. You were all so oblivious and vulnerable to those that could have easily controlled your fate but instead you used your planetary resources towards your own internal genocides. We know you more than you realise. You are nothing to us."

I also love the "you would have died within two generations" line. Lurg have lots of script goodness that just needs that little bit of kick and less like "hey we are Lurg so lets tell you everything about us, now DIE".

Lurg probably lied though when it came to the Ur-Quan "wisely avoided" being that the Ur-Quan don't avoid, they go straight for threats.

Not sure why they'd tell you the ship spec though, seems like something they'd say if they were allies and not enemies. It's like if the VUX told you that the Intruder could come up real close and zap you with a laser upon first meeting a new captain.

I don't mind helping out with dialogue too, either to make it sound better or just to help out here and there incase you folks need it.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on January 09, 2011, 04:10:10 am
If you managed to get a hot girlfriend like Talana while wearing that uniform, would you really risk ever taking it off?

I can think of a few circumstances...

Anyway, there's no doubt that the star control officer's uniform is a lot snazzier than a modern everyday military uniform. Comparable to the dress uniform, but it gets used for everything, so you don't need to treat it like a minor god.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Elerium on January 09, 2011, 01:35:19 pm
Quote
"You still have xx credits"
Heh, have the Melnorme fade to black as you calculate what credits are available should do it, I can imagine now:
"..and taking into consideration inflationary interest as well as the terms and conditions of underused account inactivity, coupled with also noting the cost of your last previous request for the "Garden of Energon Crafting Kit" the one choice for all post-apocalyptic reconstruction for your homeworld, we have finally calculated the grand total of all your remaining available credits, Captain."

"How many credits do I have in my account?"

"42."


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 09, 2011, 02:04:44 pm
"How many credits do I have in my account?"

"42."

Hey, that's my joke! >:( ;)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Elerium on January 09, 2011, 02:12:26 pm
Lol, was funny to include again to see how it could potentially work out :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: wizzardx on January 16, 2011, 05:45:46 pm
Signed up to mention that I just played the demo (found it randomly while Googling for some older games I enjoyed).

I saw the vids (intro and lurg conversation), and I was impressed (Talana looks pretty happy in the intro. And the Lurg are creepy - if a bit on the exaggerated side). The vids are a good way of promoting the game, you should make more as you progress further.

Tried playing the game with the Linux download. Didn't work because I'm running a 64-bit release. However, the compile from source went very well (after I found out which dev-related packages I needed to install in Debian. You might consider adding this in some "how to build from source on Ubuntu/Debian" guide).

My impression of the demo is that you've done a lot of work, and it shows a lot of promise, but that it still needs more work and polish.

I did feel a bit disappointed that it wasn't quite up to the quality I was expecting - eg: relying too much on SC2 material (artwork, characters, backstory, etc), and not enough originality, and the setting and characters are awkward in a few ways (eg: the reason why the captain was reenlisted for the game, and suddenly thrown into a new space ship to do a scouting-type mission, felt contrived. The intro also moved a bit too quickly, to move you from the end of SC2 over to the start of the demo. Also, not really epic/space opera enough to justify the start of a new story. Basically I think the game premise and intro need a bit of work, story-wise, to make it more convincing).

I think I'm also making the mistake of comparing the project too much against the original SC2, rather than seeing it as a fan work. As a fan work, it's really good. But if compared against a professional title (like the original SC2) it's somewhat lacking. It's important to remember that distinction.

Onto the game itself, I had these main problems:

- Reusing the SC2 intro music for the fangame's intro felt tacky (made it feel too much like a rip-off of the original intro). Ideally you want a different intro music theme.

- There's one planet where you can get infinite bio points, which I found by chance. Zap one of the critters to get the "hamburger" marker, and then just land on it and take off repeatedly (Delta Bessel, Planet IV, moon 1, towards north east) - the marker never disappears. Kind of like the PC SC2 lander cheat. It might be a bug caused by compiling for 64-bit use.

- I found it very hard to figure out exactly where I was meant to go in the demo. The original SC2 held your hand a bit more, and told you exactly where to go most of the time once you talked to the right character, after helping them with something else. And then when you get to the general vicinity, you'll get another pointer or two telling you where to go next. I didn't really want to explore every planet of every star in each area (in the end: I was Googling around for a walkthrough for the demo, and by chance found a comment in a source code commit in google code, which told me where to go to find the final challenge).

- Not being able to get more RU's (unable to mine) is pretty annoying. You have to use your RUs very carefully, especially if you want to be able to beat the final challenge for the demo (I needed to start over, so that I could use my RUs effectively).

- Too many dangling quest-type things. Got a lot of hints from Hayes and captains for things that need checking out, but didn't see any way to complete them. It felt very incomplete. Yes it's just a demo, but it was still kind of frustrating.

- Explorer ship is too weak, compared to the enemy ships seen near the start of the game - pretty useless in combat (or maybe I'm just bad at it - but those enemy ships are pretty tough, too). There need to be more weaker enemies that can be defeated early on in the game (if the Explorer is by itself). Unless the intent is that you never use the Explorer in combat near the start of the game except for running away (perhaps reasonable, since you can buy 2 Chmmr Avatars right at the start of the game. Still, it does feel a bit "off").

- Not enough progress updates/hints/etc with Hayes/the Chmmr. Once you start progressing through the demo, the dialogue should vary a bit to acknowledge your progress, and to give you a few hints and reminders for where you should try next. Also in general, the dialogues should be a bit more interactive that way (have a lot more flags, which are triggered by other parts of the game, rather than being static). This was one thing I really liked about SC2 - going back to the same characters later, and seeing how they react to story updates.

- Similar to the above: There need to be more side events. Basically, some minor (or not-so-minor) things that Hayes/Chmmr/etc talk to you about when you visit, that you can choose to follow up on. Some of them main story related, others, more side-quests, and others time-based (will always happen X days into the game, etc). Basically, make the setting more alive, and give the races their own agendas that will progress by themselves over time, rather than doing nothing, and reacting only to the what the player does. For instance, some of the things which Hayes tells you about the races (you should check out X sometime), might work better if he tells them to you a bit later.

- Some very important information is only mentioned once (by some traders). You have to be paying attention and write it down right away, before progressing further with the dialogue - otherwise it will be a lot harder to complete the demo. It would be nice if there were some reminders about important facts like that, rather than just seeing them once.

- I don't think the game tells you that you should go see Hayes. The earthlings do have a sphere of influence at the start, but it's not made obvious that you should go to him to get some important information (I mainly went to him by habit, from SC2). Similarly, the player should be reminded more to visit other places of interest that they haven't been to yet. Basically, hand-holding and making it obvious what they should be doing next, especially near the start of the game until the player gets their stride and knows their way around more (though, maybe not going to the same extent as SC3's built-in walkthrough).

- I went back to Vela looking for Unzerwalt, but couldn't find that planet. Or in fact any inhabited planets, bases or space craft there. The system looked pretty deserted.

- Don't like the change in the Chmmr's personality. Hopefully the change is justified later in the story.

Well, those are the main things I can think of now. Overall the demo is looking very good (there were a lot of things I liked about it, even if they were of "fan" quality), but there are some details that I found troubling.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Quinarbre on January 17, 2011, 02:18:23 pm
Hi wizzardx,

Thanks for your feedback. As you said yourself, this is a demo, and some of your concerns will be addressed in the full game, though I can't be more specific without spoiling. I'm mainly coding so I won't be able to address all of the remaining, but here we go.

I couldn't reproduce your "infinite bio" bug, but maybe that's because we've already changed the code a bit since the demo. What do you mean by "towards north east" ? Does it happen with one precise creature, all of one type, all of those on that planet ? Should I zap the other creatures or just one ? Should I collect the hamburger before taking off or should I collect it only upon my second landing ?

About the game taking you by the hand, I was under the exact opposite impression wrt yours : I thought we had given too many pointers to that crash site, and that we didn't leave the player enough space to investigate. I'm curious to hear what other players' impression was.

About Hayes, the game doesn't really tell you to go to him, but I guess everyone did the same as you, and went to him if only by habit or nostalgia. That was probably intentional, even if I don't recall a precise discussion among the team about that.

And you should definitely take a second look at Vela :)



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Lukipela on January 17, 2011, 02:31:58 pm
About the game taking you by the hand, I was under the exact opposite impression wrt yours : I thought we had given too many pointers to that crash site, and that we didn't leave the player enough space to investigate. I'm curious to hear what other players' impression was.

I thought the game held my hand a bit too effectively, making my first playthrough very short.

(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on January 17, 2011, 02:44:12 pm
What Luki written. Exactly too easy.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 17, 2011, 03:50:47 pm
I tend to agree. All you need to do is talk to the Shofitix and you'll narrow the crash site to within 9 or so stars. Then it's just a matter of hunting through them one at a time. Not very hard to get there.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on January 17, 2011, 05:08:41 pm
Maybe have a broader range but the shofixti tell you the kinds of stars they were most interested in exploring?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Alvarin on January 17, 2011, 05:29:04 pm
Don't think that's a good idea, as one might have taken a detour, so you'd still have to search the whole area.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on January 17, 2011, 09:09:45 pm
HA you guys are lucky that there’s even a quest at all. Originally it was just going to be you and the open space and a few old friends. We threw that quest in at the last minute just for kicks. 

Wizardx, thanks for taking the time to have a play and post that enormous critique! Rest assured that many of your concerns will be addressed before the final release. Remember, it not actually complete yet. Also what fun would the game be if everything made sense 5% of the way in?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 17, 2011, 09:22:53 pm
About the game taking you by the hand, I was under the exact opposite impression wrt yours : I thought we had given too many pointers to that crash site, and that we didn't leave the player enough space to investigate. I'm curious to hear what other players' impression was.

I thought the game held my hand a bit too effectively, making my first playthrough very short.

(click to show/hide)

I disagree. It's easy, but incredibly tedious to have to search every single planet. The current process produces not difficulty, but fake difficulty (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty), because you can't know where you're supposed to go without trial and error. This was never present in Star Control II, and for a good reason: it isn't fun.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on January 18, 2011, 01:28:21 am
Never? There were certainly times when you had constraints that limited you to maybe 8 systems spread over a wide area. That seems quite comparable.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 18, 2011, 02:18:38 am
Never? There were certainly times when you had constraints that limited you to maybe 8 systems spread over a wide area. That seems quite comparable.

There is always a way to find out very precisely where you are supposed to go in SCII, even though you're almost never told directly. For example, being told by the ZFP that there is a door that they couldn't open on that one planet (I don't remember what it is :P), and being given that hint by ZEX as to where the beast is. There is never a point where you are given a vague understanding of where something is and forced to enter orbit into every planet in several systems to find something. That is just boring, not challenging, and tedious.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Draxas on January 18, 2011, 04:02:11 am
Yeah, the ZEX quest is a bad example. The only direct pointer to it is very obscure and easy to miss (Fwiffo, of all people, will give you the coordinates, with some very specific dialog options), and likely you don't even know about the quest yet, nor does he specifically identify what is there. All the other hints are quite vague. Same story with repairing the Ultron. The worst, of course, is sending the Mycon to Organon issue that was introduced in the 3DO version, as the permanently stickied topic on this forum indicates. So yeah, there was a fair bit of trial and error in SC2 as well.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 18, 2011, 06:44:35 am
Quote
Also what fun would the game be if everything made sense 5% of the way in?

Agreed but being impatient gamers with short attention spans this fact will not stops us from complaining about that :)

Hows the main game shaping up so far?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on January 18, 2011, 04:20:25 pm
The chances of your running across most of those hints were... low. Sure you could talk to the ZFP enough to hear about the Syreen vault, but really, even without that gimme it's a tolerable search.

Perhaps in 6014 when you're exploring the area you could find a shofixti camp with a discarded data pad listing some stars they'd already explored (and therefore are unlikely to return to)?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 19, 2011, 01:40:26 am
Quote
Yeah, the ZEX quest is a bad example. The only direct pointer to it is very obscure and easy to miss (Fwiffo, of all people, will give you the coordinates, with some very specific dialog options), and likely you don't even know about the quest yet, nor does he specifically identify what is there.

What? Come on guys you seriously don't know that you are flat out told where the creature is? Am i the only one who talks to the Thradash before sending the spiders after them?

You make an alliance with the Thradash (kill 20 of their ships) and they tell you point blank they encountered a creature at Delta Lyconis that they were unable to catch.

The vault is honestly not to hard to figure out either. You get a radius from the Syreen and a star color. Assume the Ur-Quan put the vault within their territory and you just limited the option to I think 3 possible locations. the tough part was avoiding all the Green and Black while you checked the systems.

SCII was one of those games where you wanted to write down everything you were told (unless you have the original game guide) and then use that map to narrow your searches. The only thing i was ever disappointed by was when i figured out the Secret to the Rainbow worlds and found nothing in the final system (I honestly was expecting to find either the Black Spathi Squadron or someone arguing over the Frungy Championships my first playthrough)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 19, 2011, 03:36:32 am
The chances of your running across most of those hints were... low. Sure you could talk to the ZFP enough to hear about the Syreen vault, but really, even without that gimme it's a tolerable search.

Accidentally, yes, and that's a good thing. SC2 forces you to analyze the information and figure out what to do next. This is vastly different than being told to investigate a cluster of stars and find the one planet which is of importance. Not only is the former more challenging, it is also based on skill, whereas the latter is based on luck.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 19, 2011, 06:06:03 am
Quote
Accidentally, yes, and that's a good thing. SC2 forces you to analyze the information and figure out what to do next. This is vastly different than being told to investigate a cluster of stars and find the one planet which is of importance. Not only is the former more challenging, it is also based on skill, whereas the latter is based on luck.

One of the many reasons it was such an awesome game :)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Tog on January 30, 2011, 11:13:44 pm
Thanks, for doing this project, everyone.

 I tried to download and extract this for OSX, but I when I extract the *.7z file, I get a *.cpgz. When I extract the *.cpgz, I get a *.zip. Then, when I extract the *.zip, I get a *.7z and the cycle begins again.

How do you extract this? And why not just use a regular *.zip extension?


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Quinarbre on January 31, 2011, 11:25:14 am
7Zip does a better compression job, that's why.

Did you use 7Zip to extract your file ? If not, try it.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on January 31, 2011, 04:47:36 pm
winrar also works on it as well.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on January 31, 2011, 09:33:49 pm
7Zip does a better compression job, that's why.

Did you use 7Zip to extract your file ? If not, try it.

7-Zip is Windows-only. p7zip is cross-platform, but command line based and therefore not quite as friendly to layman users. I would rather suggest The Unarchiver (http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/unarchiver.html), which is made mainly for Mac OS X and supports 7z as well as many other formats.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on February 05, 2011, 03:16:32 pm
What? Come on guys you seriously don't know that you are flat out told where the creature is? Am i the only one who talks to the Thradash before sending the spiders after them?

You make an alliance with the Thradash (kill 20 of their ships) and they tell you point blank they encountered a creature at Delta Lyconis that they were unable to catch.
This only happens if you choose a specific option for what the Thraddash should be like. I know a lot of people will choose the 'be wacky!' approach. :)

Quote from: http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/VUX_Beast
The Thraddash, if they have joined the New Alliance and have been told to emulate The Captain, reveal the exact location, telling about a vicious creature they encountered on Delta Lyncis I.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on February 07, 2011, 04:40:23 pm
Quote
This only happens if you choose a specific option for what the Thraddash should be like. I know a lot of people will choose the 'be wacky!' approach. Smiley

Valid point. I am just saying that it was certainly possible to get more narrowed down information then ZEX. In reality I think the only item in the game that is not specifically mentioned is the caster near Druge space unless you buy the info from Greenish


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on February 07, 2011, 05:20:57 pm
I was wondering if there's anyone amongst the Project6014 userbase that doesn't have Java (read: a Java Runtime) installed. Looking into solutions for a Multi-OS Java installer, but one of the solutions I've found might make supporting other, native installers (such as the current one used for Windows) annoying.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: onpon4 on February 07, 2011, 11:46:01 pm
Quote
This only happens if you choose a specific option for what the Thraddash should be like. I know a lot of people will choose the 'be wacky!' approach. Smiley

Valid point. I am just saying that it was certainly possible to get more narrowed down information then ZEX. In reality I think the only item in the game that is not specifically mentioned is the caster near Druge space unless you buy the info from Greenish

That is incorrect. The Druuge mention it if you ask them about themselves a couple times.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on February 08, 2011, 07:15:02 am
Quote
That is incorrect. The Druuge mention it if you ask them about themselves a couple times.

Ahh cool, I didn't know that. I have never talked to them beyond getting the Rosey Sphere for a Mycon egg and selling them that caster with a ship loaded with empty high efficiency fuel tanks

I learned some time ago that with the Portal spawner + Caster + Ship with 15 units of fuel, high efficiency fuel tanks minus one spot for a gun+ knowing your portal spawn points = about 21,000 Ru worth of fuel and the single most hilarious moment in the game imo :) ........please tell me the new game has a moment like this somewhere to find ;D

Speaking of. How about a progress report Cedric.
a) Any new demo's coming out in the near future?
b) How stands the current development of the game?
c) Any clue on when we get the full game and should I sell my crew to the Drugge to get development money for it to accelerate the process? (C'mon! that demo left us on a cliff hanger and the suspense is killing me and everyone else I have killed to alleviate the tension.)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on February 09, 2011, 03:39:38 pm
You don't even need a gun, just keep an escort vessel on hand.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on February 09, 2011, 06:10:51 pm
Quote
You don't even need a gun, just keep an escort vessel on hand.

I prefer not to risk getting attacked at all by the druuge. That fuel is exactly enough to get me to there home planet, one interception that results in a battle knocking me just slightly off course will leave you stranded. That said I still bring a full compliment of guard ships when I do this :). Though I have never checked to see if a guard ship is by itself enough to avoid the "promoting piracy" charge. Will that deter them?

Now someone throw something at Cedric. Or one of our other creators so we can get a new update. I hate the silence.....makes me feel like i have become Void.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Grand Master Planet Eater on February 13, 2011, 03:56:31 am
Hi, I downloaded the thing, but when I tried to run it I got this error:

"Error: Extra arguments found on the command line. Run with -h to see the allowed arguments."


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Death 999 on February 13, 2011, 05:12:32 am
Though I have never checked to see if a guard ship is by itself enough to avoid the "promoting piracy" charge. Will that deter them?

IIRC, yes. Apparently, they're 'legally permitted' to, but understand the concept of real danger.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Megagun on February 13, 2011, 04:11:10 pm
Hi, I downloaded the thing, but when I tried to run it I got this error:

"Error: Extra arguments found on the command line. Run with -h to see the allowed arguments."
Create a new text file inside the same folder as you installed p6014.
Put the following text in it:
Code:
uqm.exe -i pc
Save it as 'uqm.bat'. Make sure it's not named 'uqm.bat.txt' (select "All Files" when saving as)!
Double-click on 'uqm.bat'.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Grand Master Planet Eater on February 13, 2011, 08:24:01 pm
I did that and nothing happened


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Cedric6014 on February 13, 2011, 08:27:37 pm
Now someone throw something at Cedric. Or one of our other creators so we can get a new update. I hate the silence.....makes me feel like i have become Void.

No apologies for the silence! We won't have anything new to show for months, so don't get your hopes up.  :)

At the moment I'm focussing on the story side. I don;t realy know what my colleagues are up to, I still owe most of them a few email replies.   :-\ I think they're all beavering away on something or other.



Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Grand Master Planet Eater on February 14, 2011, 05:15:42 pm
Nevermind, I got it working. Quite good so far, I would say.

However, if you really need help with the story, I would be willing to contribute.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: JudgeYohance on February 14, 2011, 06:33:40 pm
Quote
No apologies for the silence! We won't have anything new to show for months, so don't get your hopes up.  Smiley

lol was not looking for one. Just making sure you and the team is still alive. Too many times I follow a indie project and the team up and quit without a word so I like to poke them with a stick every so often just to make sure things are still going well.  I've also got channel watchers who have asked me about the progress of the demo and are too lazy to join the forum and follow it themselves so this is bothering you by proxy :)

Looking forward to future info and future pokes!  ;D


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Pikant on September 07, 2011, 02:22:33 pm
Is this thing still alive?

I managed not to think about this since january, so decided to check on it hoping to see a lot of progress, but seeing there hasnt been a reply since february, it doesnt look good   :'(

edit: nvm, saw the other topic. 11.11.11 is the next update


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: Maatissi on February 23, 2012, 09:46:06 am
Excellent work with this mod, now there really is Star Control II½... and hopefully someday there will be the REAL Star Control III  ;)

Some feedback:

(click to show/hide)

Hope this thread will be revived! (Or someone guiding me to an active one.) Thank you.


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: CelticMinstrel on February 24, 2012, 11:42:53 pm
Main thread (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=4409.0), latest release thread (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=5178.0)


Title: Re: Project6014 demo release
Post by: NightVVriter on December 25, 2013, 06:18:47 pm
Signed up to mention that I just played the demo (found it randomly while Googling for some older games I enjoyed).

I saw the vids (intro and lurg conversation), and I was impressed (Talana looks pretty happy in the intro. And the Lurg are creepy - if a bit on the exaggerated side). The vids are a good way of promoting the game, you should make more as you progress further.

Tried playing the game with the Linux download. Didn't work because I'm running a 64-bit release. However, the compile from source went very well (after I found out which dev-related packages I needed to install in Debian. You might consider adding this in some "how to build from source on Ubuntu/Debian" guide).

My impression of the demo is that you've done a lot of work, and it shows a lot of promise, but that it still needs more work and polish.

I did feel a bit disappointed that it wasn't quite up to the quality I was expecting - eg: relying too much on SC2 material (artwork, characters, backstory, etc), and not enough originality, and the setting and characters are awkward in a few ways (eg: the reason why the captain was reenlisted for the game, and suddenly thrown into a new space ship to do a scouting-type mission, felt contrived. The intro also moved a bit too quickly, to move you from the end of SC2 over to the start of the demo. Also, not really epic/space opera enough to justify the start of a new story. Basically I think the game premise and intro need a bit of work, story-wise, to make it more convincing).

I think I'm also making the mistake of comparing the project too much against the original SC2, rather than seeing it as a fan work. As a fan work, it's really good. But if compared against a professional title (like the original SC2) it's somewhat lacking. It's important to remember that distinction.

Onto the game itself, I had these main problems:

- Reusing the SC2 intro music for the fangame's intro felt tacky (made it feel too much like a rip-off of the original intro). Ideally you want a different intro music theme.

- There's one planet where you can get infinite bio points, which I found by chance. Zap one of the critters to get the "hamburger" marker, and then just land on it and take off repeatedly (Delta Bessel, Planet IV, moon 1, towards north east) - the marker never disappears. Kind of like the PC SC2 lander cheat. It might be a bug caused by compiling for 64-bit use.

- I found it very hard to figure out exactly where I was meant to go in the demo. The original SC2 held your hand a bit more, and told you exactly where to go most of the time once you talked to the right character, after helping them with something else. And then when you get to the general vicinity, you'll get another pointer or two telling you where to go next. I didn't really want to explore every planet of every star in each area (in the end: I was Googling around for a walkthrough for the demo, and by chance found a comment in a source code commit in google code, which told me where to go to find the final challenge).

- Not being able to get more RU's (unable to mine) is pretty annoying. You have to use your RUs very carefully, especially if you want to be able to beat the final challenge for the demo (I needed to start over, so that I could use my RUs effectively).

- Too many dangling quest-type things. Got a lot of hints from Hayes and captains for things that need checking out, but didn't see any way to complete them. It felt very incomplete. Yes it's just a demo, but it was still kind of frustrating.

- Explorer ship is too weak, compared to the enemy ships seen near the start of the game - pretty useless in combat (or maybe I'm just bad at it - but those enemy ships are pretty tough, too). There need to be more weaker enemies that can be defeated early on in the game (if the Explorer is by itself). Unless the intent is that you never use the Explorer in combat near the start of the game except for running away (perhaps reasonable, since you can buy 2 Chmmr Avatars right at the start of the game. Still, it does feel a bit "off").

- Not enough progress updates/hints/etc with Hayes/the Chmmr. Once you start progressing through the demo, the dialogue should vary a bit to acknowledge your progress, and to give you a few hints and reminders for where you should try next. Also in general, the dialogues should be a bit more interactive that way (have a lot more flags, which are triggered by other parts of the game, rather than being static). This was one thing I really liked about SC2 - going back to the same characters later, and seeing how they react to story updates.

- Similar to the above: There need to be more side events. Basically, some minor (or not-so-minor) things that Hayes/Chmmr/etc talk to you about when you visit, that you can choose to follow up on. Some of them main story related, others, more side-quests, and others time-based (will always happen X days into the game, etc). Basically, make the setting more alive, and give the races their own agendas that will progress by themselves over time, rather than doing nothing, and reacting only to the what the player does. For instance, some of the things which Hayes tells you about the races (you should check out X sometime), might work better if he tells them to you a bit later.

- Some very important information is only mentioned once (by some traders). You have to be paying attention and write it down right away, before progressing further with the dialogue - otherwise it will be a lot harder to complete the demo. It would be nice if there were some reminders about important facts like that, rather than just seeing them once.

- I don't think the game tells you that you should go see Hayes. The earthlings do have a sphere of influence at the start, but it's not made obvious that you should go to him to get some important information (I mainly went to him by habit, from SC2). Similarly, the player should be reminded more to visit other places of interest that they haven't been to yet. Basically, hand-holding and making it obvious what they should be doing next, especially near the start of the game until the player gets their stride and knows their way around more (though, maybe not going to the same extent as SC3's built-in walkthrough).

- I went back to Vela looking for Unzerwalt, but couldn't find that planet. Or in fact any inhabited planets, bases or space craft there. The system looked pretty deserted.

- Don't like the change in the Chmmr's personality. Hopefully the change is justified later in the story.

Well, those are the main things I can think of now. Overall the demo is looking very good (there were a lot of things I liked about it, even if they were of "fan" quality), but there are some details that I found troubling.


It was trying too hard really. I needs to realize that it is not SC2, and that to be its own production, it needs to go out on a limb with story.