The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: ScaN on February 06, 2003, 09:24:53 am



Title: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: ScaN on February 06, 2003, 09:24:53 am
   I'm writing you from Russia Federation. That's why I speak english so *well* . My brother adviced me to play SC Ur-Quan Masters to improve my english.
The problem is: "The subtitles don't coincide with the sound"
    To teach english I have to read and hear just the same.
         Help. Answer.  
   (If the  theme about I said already exist you may delete this)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Niahak on February 06, 2003, 09:52:54 am
I would recommend downloading the version posted about here: http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Techissues;action=display;num=1044016659 .  It has synchronized subtitles (text and speech at the same time) that are very well done.
Good luck learning English- you already type better than several of my friends for whom English is a first language.  ;D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Censored on February 06, 2003, 07:20:03 pm
Here's even a direct link:
http://www.4u-servers.co.uk/~striker/

And your brother is correct - this is an excellent game for learning English!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Cyamarin on February 06, 2003, 09:47:01 pm
Good idea.  Just don't expect the Orz to be much help.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Death 999 on February 06, 2003, 11:35:32 pm
And the main character intentionally mis-defines several words for the Thraddash (I think. It was worse with the K'Tang in SC3). Avoid pig-latin.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: ScaN on February 07, 2003, 11:50:23 pm
    Thank you very much! If anybody wants to learn russian language
post me: dj_scan@mail.ru And please don't spam.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 08, 2003, 07:21:53 pm
A quick question that  for all you people who use another alphabet than the Roman (Kyrillic, Hebrew, Chinese and so on.):

How does your keyboard work? I mean, obviously you can write in what we see as "normal" letters as well, but do you have a button on the keyboard to switch, and then every löetter corresponds to a letter in your native alphabet? And for the chinese, don't you guys have several thousand signs? Do you only have the most common on the keyboard, or is there a "modernized" version of the language for that or what?

Seeing this thread about russian just made me curious


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Fencer_Naiad on February 10, 2003, 05:12:02 am
Although I myself don't speak russion, well I do have an imported Japanese keyboard for my Gamecube which has romantic letters in upper left hand corner of keys and Japanese characters in the lower right hand corner. A key that replaces the tilde (~) key switches between each set of characters. Can't think of a really good pic to show you off the top of my head, sorry.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 10, 2003, 06:19:49 am
If I'm not mistaken, the Japanese developed something like "computer-japanese".
Since all of their signs would simply be beyond any keyboard capacity, they figured out a way to put syllables instead of sign-words on their keyboards.
That way you don't type a word by pressing the corresponding letters but spell it out by typing the syllables.

As for learning English with the game - enjoy and good luck!
I remember me spending hours in front of the pc, stunned by the game and learning English myself on the side  :D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 12, 2003, 12:26:43 am
See that's what I was wondering. I can well see hebrew and kyrillic and greek alphabetsbeing simply converted by a button press, "LangLock"  so to speak. But I was wonmdering bout Japanese and Chinese seeingas they are so very different... A new language then? To talk about technology causing advances linguistically...


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 12, 2003, 12:45:06 am
Well, not really new. Imagine you would write English on your pc not in words but just in the phonetics of the words and you get pretty close.

Comparable 2 what U do while in a chatroom. Instead of writing please, you write plz or thx instead of thanks. Shortens it down but it carries the same information


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Nobody ok on February 12, 2003, 06:00:07 am
Basically, the Japanese have always had a couple alphabets to work with, so  typing isn't a problem for them.  They do use some Chinese characters, but I assume they just spell these out in their alphabet like they do other languages.  Now, I don't know how the Chinese manage.  They probably just use a subset of old signs as a phonetic alphabet.


Title: Japanese and Chinese keyboards
Post by: Novus on February 12, 2003, 05:32:15 pm
Getting a bit offtopic here, but the Japanese mostly seem to type using one of their phonetic alphabets, and convert to Kanji using a built-in dictionary if necessary (some more information  here (http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/scancodes-3.html). The Chinese are a bit worse off, as they don't really have a phonetic alphabet, so they end up either splitting their characters into parts and entering one at a time or typing in Latin characters (more details in chapter 3 of (this article (http://www.fi.muni.cz/usr/wong/teaching/chinese/notes.ps) (PostScript format)).


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 14, 2003, 12:51:12 am
phonetic alphabet. of course.. that makes sense. don't the chinese/japanese use a lot of inflections as well though? I mean, I seem t recall reading somewhere that the same sign can mean several thing's depending on the intonation you use when pronouncing it. So wouldn't there be a lot of phonetical signs as well?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Cyamarin on February 14, 2003, 03:12:22 am
In japanese, the different pronunciations aren't just inflections--they're entirely different words.  The same kanji symbol can represent two different words, with entirely different pronunciations, depending on context.  Dunno about chinese.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: TheBlip on February 14, 2003, 12:03:05 pm
Here's a close up of a Chinese Keyboard:

http://www.asiasoft.com/prodimg/MSCKW1TS.jpg

Depending on the software, you can enter Chinese Characters by typing the pronounciation of the character. (Chinese words are called characters. Each character has a meaning like "fish" or "apple" or "run" etc.) The pronounciation can be typed using romanised characters (the ones used in English) or using a Chinese Phonetic Alphabet. Once the pronounciation is typed, you can press a key (usually TAB or something like that) and it will list all the characters that have that pronounciation and then you can select the character that you want.

Contrary to what Lukipela said, Chinese does not have inflexions but it does have quite a lot of tones. Usually to type that in, you just type a number which specifies what tone is wanted.

That's what I have experienced so far trying to learn chinese..  It is a little bit slower then typing in English. :) But I guess your speed improves after a while..



Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 14, 2003, 03:29:58 pm
Ok, this might be due to my english not being quite up to speed, but what is the difference between inflection and tone? I mean, the inflection is a variance of the tone, isn't it? Like if the tone goes up higher in the end of the word, stays the same, or goes lower... I'm mean it's not as if all chinese are trained so that a word in a C minor tone will mean something else than the word in E major, is it? Or am I just misinterpreting the words?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: ScaN on February 14, 2003, 11:59:22 pm
   There is no problems for russian. The english alphabet consists of 26 (near 25 - I don't remember). The russian one consists of 33 symbols.
   On every key in my keyboard there are two (or more) symbols. Of course exept for "F1" "enter" and other.
One of them is red - russian symbol.
When I press ctlr+shift in the right down corner (near clock) I switch
the image "EN" to "RU"or the wrong way. When the correct image is switched I print only "red" symbols or only "black"
;D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: TheBlip on February 15, 2003, 08:16:34 pm
Hmm.. *Checks dictionary.com*  :P

I think inflection can be used to mean tones...

But I've only usually heard of it being used to mean the changing of a word or the end of a word to indicate tense (eg. speak -> spoke) and other things.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 15, 2003, 08:17:50 pm
Oh, i was thinking of inflection as the same wrod, just with a different tone and call that inflection. so while we may have lingual problems, I think we're aiming at the same thing : )



Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on February 21, 2003, 02:57:11 am
Was Star Control II ever released in any languages other than english?  I know it was distributed in Europe and Japan, but did the languages change at all when shipped?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 21, 2003, 03:37:03 am
Well, as for Germany, I'm not sure whether there ever existed a German version of SCII, but I've never heard of it nor seen it. In the best case, they translated the manual, but I've never owned it, so...

But I'm working on a translation right now. Text files first to make it look like a subtitled original. Don't know if I'll ever be able to dub it  a n d  make it sound original, therefore I'll stick with the translation first.

What about other countries like Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, Ireland, the U.S. & Canada  ;D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on February 21, 2003, 09:55:36 am
Hehe, well I'm Canadian and I can understand the game pretty well...  But I have been studying pretty hard in English class lately just to keep up with the Yehat and their darned Scottish accents!  You know how hard it is to translate English to Canadian...  near impossible.

...

:P

...

EDIT: By the way, why did you list Canada last in that list of countries?  You got something against Kanada, man?!  ...    ;)  Hehe, I remember taking german class and figuring out you guys spell our country with a "K" instead of a "C".  I thought maybe I was tripping out or something...  hehe.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 21, 2003, 05:55:55 pm
Far from it, man! Canada is great!!!
I should have listed South Africa as well (I don't think I forgot anyone else who wouldn't  n e e d  a translation of the game)
As far as the spelling goes: A lot of differences in capitalization as well...
United States of America - Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
Great Britain - Grossbritannien
New Zealand - Neuseeland
Australia - Australien
Ireland - Irland
Canada - Kanada
Why I listed Canada? What would you have said if I had left it out?!? Canada is important and lately one of the few countries which is not mad at us Germans for having an own opinion, therefore:
O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 21, 2003, 09:26:19 pm
The names get even worse when you progress to weird languages like finnish:

The United States : Yhdysvallat
Great Britain : Iso-Britannia
New-Zealand : Uus-Seelanti

The rest are pretty similar, although they are pronounced diffeently

Oh, and GM, I'm sure the french like you as well :)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 21, 2003, 09:38:14 pm
Ah oui, les Francaises! Well, I guess it pays off making peace with your arch-enemy after all  ;)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 21, 2003, 09:52:04 pm
kinda ironic that. the nemys enemy is my friend :)

although that doesn't apply to the Kohr-Ah I suppose


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Azarule on February 21, 2003, 11:24:27 pm
Heh.....SCUM !!!!!!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 21, 2003, 11:27:54 pm
Scum?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 22, 2003, 05:41:16 am
SCUM???


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Niahak on February 22, 2003, 11:38:16 am
SC:UM
Star Control, Ur-Quan Masters
SCUM...
At least, I assume that's what that post's about.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 22, 2003, 11:43:16 am
Fair enough, although it still doesn't make much sense to me...


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on February 22, 2003, 04:07:39 pm
Okay, and SCAT means Star Control, Alternate Timelines (when talking about the  r e a l  SCIII?)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Censored on February 22, 2003, 04:10:28 pm
I think they already acronym-ed it to "UQM".. :P


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on February 22, 2003, 07:03:35 pm
Hmmm... Well, I suppsoe we wont know until Azarule speaks up and tells us what he meant : ) How bout it?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: ScaN on March 01, 2003, 09:46:50 am
 Hey men! Don't laugh about my english. You can understand me, this is enough.  If I could understand you, I would write something more... ??? >:( ??? :( :( >:( :-X :'(


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 01, 2003, 05:27:43 pm
Um, who's laughing? We're discussing alphabets and how they fit on the computer. I read through the whole thread, and if anyone is laughing at you, I certainly missed it...


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 02, 2003, 12:38:05 am
As far as I can tell, nobody's laughing about you, ScaN.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 02, 2003, 01:48:59 am
We're laughing with you, ScaN man!  Don't worry, we like your topic so much that it's 3 pages in length!  It's awesome to hear that games like UQM are providing you not only with a fun experience, but is also helping you to learn the stupidest language in the world... english!  But seriously, your english is great and I'm sure it will only improve with time.  Keep working at it, dude!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Censored on March 02, 2003, 02:43:22 am
"We're laughing with you", Omni-Sama? yea, I'm sure you calmed him now..ARGH! I'm going to lose control and blow a cloud of spores at you!

:P

Seriously, ScaN, I mentioned it earlier myself that good games such as SC2 were a basis for my English too.. Oh and Muzzy in English Land :P (I bet no one heared of it ;)).. And today, I can safely say..
Har! Har Har! That been great! ZAP! ZAP! KABOOM!!! Har! Har! Har!...


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 02, 2003, 03:06:49 am
MUZZY? We used to have Muzzy in school! My dad was an english teacher so he'd tape them at home, and I'd get to see them befopre all the other kids! I used to absolutely loove Muzzy! ermm.. We're talking bout the big blue fuzzy guy, right?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 02, 2003, 03:42:35 am
I had a friend in U.S. highschool we called "Muzzy" - now I finally know why!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 02, 2003, 07:51:52 am
Quote
"yea, I'm sure you calmed him now..ARGH! I'm going to lose control and blow a cloud of spores at you!

You can be charged for doing that in public, can't you?  I think they got Pee Wee Herman for doing that.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Censored on March 02, 2003, 08:03:20 pm
Quote
MUZZY? We used to have Muzzy in school! My dad was an english teacher so he'd tape them at home, and I'd get to see them befopre all the other kids! I used to absolutely loove Muzzy! ermm.. We're talking bout the big blue fuzzy guy, right?


The one that eats clocks.. there was a series? I only saw a movie.. one movie.. about 1000 times ;)
"Take him away! take him away, take him away, take him away!"

hehehehe.. That really helped me.. so today I speak English very best!!!
::)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 03, 2003, 08:13:01 am
Oooh-Kay... So THAT is what happened  ;D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 03, 2003, 08:28:19 pm
Well, we had a whole seires over here, or maybe the movie was just split in many parts for television? At any rate, he did eat clocks, and parking meters and everything! and there was a fair princess, a king, and evil minister of some sort.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 04, 2003, 05:46:59 am
Quote
Heh.....SCUM !!!!!!


Well, Azarule, are you ever gonna tell us what you meant with your outbreak?


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 06, 2003, 01:12:24 am
Yeah, otherwise *Eddie* is gonna have to *Up the Irons*. And *dance* the *GO-GO* *virtualspace* *spitting* *dance* with you!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 06, 2003, 01:19:30 am
I think what Azarule's outburst meant was that the abbreviation for Star Control: Ur-Quan Masters is SCUM, a funny word that deserves to be shouted with enthusiasm.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 06, 2003, 02:05:05 am
Quote
Yeah, otherwise *Eddie* is gonna have to *Up the Irons*. And *dance* the *GO-GO* *virtualspace* *spitting* *dance* with you!


Exactly! (I was just curious about that enthusiastic outbreak)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 07, 2003, 04:13:15 pm
Yes Omni, we all believe it might have been that. But there is always the possibility that we might be wrong. Believeing you know isn't always enough. Like my old maths teacher used to say "You can believe in church, in my classroom you have to KNOW."


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 07, 2003, 05:59:06 pm
Good point - like a German saying goes "Believing is not Knowing" (Glauben heisst nicht Wissen).

The truth is out there - let's hear it  ;)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 09, 2003, 08:38:25 am
Quote
Yes Omni, we all believe it might have been that. But there is always the possibility that we might be wrong. Believeing you know isn't always enough. Like my old maths teacher used to say "You can believe in church, in my classroom you have to KNOW."

I have another saying:  "Hypothesize, don't criticize."   :P

Well, since Azarule is not going to explain his strange outburst, I guess it shall remain a mystery never to be tapped again...  an answer that shall never see the light.

BTW, SCUM is a pretty funny word, hehe.... SCUM!  SCUM!  Hehe.


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 13, 2003, 06:38:03 pm
A wise saying indeed.  ;) Although coming from one whose most famous statements include lines like "Your topic is a vacous waste of space", it really doesn't carry that much weight :P


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 13, 2003, 10:42:43 pm
Hehe.  I don't expect you to like my opinions.  I plan on offending as many people as possible, and I seem to have done the trick... ^_~  j/k of course.

But seriously, I'm just trying to keep this post on topic... if that's a crime, then arrest me now!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 13, 2003, 11:05:22 pm
You are under arrest. Please follow me into this quiet secluded alley. Guess what happens next? Stabbin time!

Seriously, dont worry. It takes a lot to offend me donchaknow ;)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Censored on March 15, 2003, 04:30:20 am
So, next time people yell SCUM!!!!! at you, be sure to explain to them to origin of the sacred word they're using!
I'm sure they'll greatly appreciate your insight!

:P


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Novus on March 15, 2003, 02:59:58 pm
Quote
So, next time people yell SCUM!!!!! at you, be sure to explain to them to origin of the sacred word they're using!
I'm sure they'll greatly appreciate your insight!
:P

It's also uncannily similar to the great and wonderful SCUMM (http://www.justadventure.com/articles/Engines/SCUMM/SCUMM.shtm).


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 17, 2003, 01:50:38 am
So, am I now a SCUMer or a SCUMMer?

(and watch what y'all say in reply)


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Omni-Sama on March 18, 2003, 09:00:19 am
I'd say you fall in between the two... you're genuinely scumy, and we wouldn't have it any other way.   ;D


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 18, 2003, 09:11:47 am
Thank you very much! I'm definitely in between... But wait! Wouldn't that place me somewhere *in between*? Oh no! I'm doomed!!! HELP!!!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: Lukipela on March 23, 2003, 08:57:13 pm
No worries GM, I'm here to save you. You're definetly not in between, you're right up on top with me, the Scumball!


Title: Re: Teaching english with SC:UM, problems
Post by: GermanNightmare on March 23, 2003, 09:18:06 pm
Always good to know that you're there to save and support me, LP!
That's what you need in a time like this! Scumballing rules!