The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Corsus on February 21, 2003, 06:42:57 pm



Title: What about Online game?
Post by: Corsus on February 21, 2003, 06:42:57 pm
Today i was setting near the computer and was wondering about what can be in future releases.
Now. What about playing this game in internet with friends and another people. It would be a great idea.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Scott on February 21, 2003, 07:32:55 pm
That's what TimeWarp is for, m'boy.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Chad on February 21, 2003, 07:59:17 pm
Well, when this project was first mentioned, talk of online Melee was one of the big things.  

I'd like to know if its even possible from a programming standpoint?  Not asking if it'll be in release 1.0 or even 1.5 or 2.0.  Just, is it possible from those that don't know the code and SDL, etc?  :-/

Core Team??


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: creativename on February 22, 2003, 12:08:37 am
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That's what TimeWarp is for, m'boy.

I don't know if we'd do well to rely on TW...supposedly there's some progress being made, but how many times have people heard that before?   :-/


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 22, 2003, 12:52:54 am
All too true. A sequel to StarCon 2 would have been great, but alas, it seems that it's only a dream... Then again, I've been known to be wrong before.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Censored on February 22, 2003, 04:54:04 pm
I'm sure internet-play would be introduced into UQM once they finish the first point-release.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Cow on February 23, 2003, 02:38:12 am
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I'm sure internet-play would be introduced into UQM once they finish the first point-release.


I doubt that.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 23, 2003, 03:01:58 am
Does anyone have any facts to bas ethis on, or is it just speculation (about wether UQM might get online capacities after the 1.0 release)


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Guest on February 23, 2003, 08:46:20 am
I doubt that UQM could be turned into an online game. Thinking about it a little, I'd like to see something like a revamped SC1 turned into an online game. Add the ships from SC2 and SC3, make customizable alliances and use the same gameplay from SC1 and the Melee from SC2 = *great fun*


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Shiver on February 23, 2003, 01:29:27 pm
Or just make a super melee where you connect to other people somehow. It should be possible to send chat messages in the "pick your ships" screen to arrange the fight.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: JonoPorter on February 23, 2003, 01:38:01 pm
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I'm sure internet-play would be introduced into UQM once they finish the first point-release.  

I doubt that.  




I believe you are underestimating the power of the fans! And I am not talking about the ones that spin.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 23, 2003, 02:29:18 pm
believe, doubt, think. I'll take it noone has a clue then. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to wait and see.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Parker on February 24, 2003, 02:02:12 am
Since no developers responded to this thread, I may as well say something about it.  In a chat in the IRC channel (a while ago, so their thoughts or opinions may have changed), the core team explained to me and everyone else that was listening that given the current game code, writing netcode for it would not be possible.  It would take a rewrite of the game to make TCP/IP LAN/net-play technically feasible (ie not some kind of Kaillera implementation).  Anyway I think that's the gist of what they said.  Also, 1.0's goal is just to make the game as it was on both the PC and 3DO.  Versions or forks of the project after that will be for feature additions.  As for writing the netcode itself, it would take a new developer to do the work, as the current ones are plenty busy with what they have already :)


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 24, 2003, 02:09:42 am
That's cleared up then. Thanks a lot!


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: JonoPorter on February 24, 2003, 02:22:30 am
I think they use "STAR CONTROL ONLINE" for the melee engine but make the battle fields much larger. ;)


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Parker on February 24, 2003, 03:09:15 am
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I think they use "STAR CONTROL ONLINE" for the melee engine but make the battle fields much larger. ;)

Star Control Online has played an integral part in the UQM re-release.  It's what got the project leader Chris an internship at TFB.  Chris and Fred then prepped the code for open-sourcing over the summer.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Chad on February 24, 2003, 07:21:26 pm
Does Chris still work on the UQM code?

Star Control Online is open source correct?  Maybe someone will pick that back up someday...  


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Censored on February 25, 2003, 12:07:10 am
I don't worry about it; I'm sure the Star Control saga will continue and become even a greater lengend than anyone can imagine!

I, HAVE A DREAM!

;)



Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 25, 2003, 01:18:20 am
Well, one can always dream I suppose... Although I hope you're right, It'd be way cool...


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: meep-eep on February 25, 2003, 04:08:30 am
It would indeed require an almost total rewrite of the melee engine. Maybe after the 1.0 someone will do just that.
Our goal for now is to bring back SC2 in all its original glory.

And responding on another remark: we're using the original SC2 engine. No "Star Control Online" stuff. Actually, all the game logic and physics is exactly as it was in SC2. The only things we've changed, or are changing is the input, output, and resource management. Apart from bringing back some PC features, and fixing some little bugs that were in the original.



Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: PerGuLa on February 25, 2003, 06:29:50 pm
StarControl and the subsequent StartControl 2 were able to capture HOURS of my, my brothers and our close friends time!  We'd sit around my computer and take turns at melee.  Years have passed and we've moved to different states.  I would absolutely LOVE to play a revamped StarControl (read: UQM) online with them!  It shouldn't be too hard to get support from people who know net-code and could implement it into your program!  Try looking at some of the net-code from Quake or Half-Life if you're at a loss.

Please make this game Online playable...  If you look around, the multi-player experience is what makes or breaks games that don't have gobs and gobs of eye-candy!  Heck, someone recently released a new version of Scorched Earth (another game that I spent hours on) that is Net-Playable!!!!!


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Novus on February 25, 2003, 08:29:11 pm
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It shouldn't be too hard to get support from people who know net-code and could implement it into your program!  Try looking at some of the net-code from Quake or Half-Life if you're at a loss.
While adding network play may seem to be a simple matter of adding code to interchange player input data between computers, reality is a lot worse.

For starters, the different computers running the game have to agree exactly on what is going on. This means that anything random or machine-specific has to be carefully handled to ensure that the game does not get out of sync. Imagine two players disagreeing on whether a Pkunk Fury is dead.

Next, latency is a problem. On a local network, you can read another machine's keyboard almost as fast as you read your own (delays of a millisecond or two). If you want to play against someone in the same country over the Internet, you could be up against delays of 10-50 ms (or worse for modem users). For international play, delays can be almost a second. Now, for UQM to work properly, you really need to be able to exchange information on keys pressed once a frame, which is something like 25 or 30 times a second. This means you have about 40 ms before your game starts slowing down. In a game like Quake, there is a lot of really nasty code dedicated to predicting the actions of your opponents and correcting them to match their real actions. Occasionally, the network code gets it badly wrong and ends up having to e.g. delete the rocket launcher you just picked up because someone else really got it first. Anyhow, hacking this onto UQM would not be easy.

In conclusion, adding support for LAN play would require a lot of work. Adding support for Internet play over high-latency connections (e.g. modem) would require a complete overhaul of the combat code. The actual data transfer is actually the easy part.


Title: Re: What about Online game?
Post by: Lukipela on February 25, 2003, 08:35:50 pm
And, to restate this once more for all the ppl who want online melee and apparently didn't read the beginning of the thread. Timewarp. It's melee online with more ships. Go have fun!