The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Ive been thinking.
are the dinarri telepatic or do they just control poeple?

I also wonder if the umguh got enough samples to enginer themselve to have the same powers as the dinari?

Well, seing as the Dnyarri are small brown toads, I doubt they could just tell the Quan what to do. hat do you mean anyway, "just control people?"

Anyway, the Dnyarri have the power of mindcontrol yes, they are telepathic. I doubt the Umgah have any records left from their encounter with the Dnyarri, the thing took over their entire civilization. Also, paranoid as it was, I doubt it'd leave information about itself and it's weaknesses lying around.

EDIT: Umm I didn't want to ask first, seeing as it's a bit impolite, but did you play the game at all? I mean the mindcontrolthing comes through pretty well. Or else the captain just really likes flowers...

sorry about not making myself clear. :-[
what is was asking was:
1. do they control the mind and read it or
2. just control the mind

Ah, ok.

I do believe that they can read minds as well, at least partially As he states :

"Much the same as the last time you asked
however, I have found a way to amuse myself.
I am listening in on the mental energies of your crew -- it's quite fun!
For instance, did you know that both ensigns Holiday and Watchuki have crushes on you?
It's true!"

So yes, I'd say it can read minds at least partially. When it wants to.

Would the sentient Dnyarri be in the "real" SC3?  If you mess with him after he's captured, you find out that the Taalo devise was not properly installed and that he can control you.  I don't think that it would be unreasonable to assume that he had a member of the crew take him off the Flagship before it smashed into the Sa-Matra.  

I wonder if the Dnyarri would be that much of a threat though? Sure, it could do a lot of damage, but nothing irreversible. I mean, what with all the psychic races now allied to us, and the Chmmr who are (probably) immune to the dnyarri, it should only be a manner of shutting it down.

The Ur-Quan certainly were threatened.  And the Umgah.  There is no telling what kind of damage that 1 Dnyarri could do if it took over an alien civilization and had it attack a different one.  It could jump from culture to culture seeding mayhem all over the this section of the galaxy.  That could be the basis for SC3.

You could run around the galaxy, stopping conflicts, and hunting down the Sentient Dnyarri.  That's something everyone could get behind!

Who said the crew got off? :'(
i only remember seeing one escape pod. :o


I would soooo play that. if it was done right

The Dnyarri was supposed to be the size of a dog.  The escape pod could hold a minimum of 50 people (I have no idea how large the thing is, but I'm assuming that the Captain would do all he could to save his crew) so he could have been kept hidden by a mind-controlled crewman.  Or he could have simply compelled anyone who got close to him to unconciously move away.

when, in the game, do they tell you about the escape pods holding capabilities?

The real question is how he would reproduce?
do it with a female talking pet? talk about a DUMB blond

size of what kind of dog?

As a side point, would the Syreen be immune to the Dnyarri? Or perhaps even able to control it?

Are you all forgetting the Dynarri's last words?

"And in case you're wondering, I'm not going with you, Captain. I'm staying on board.
Why, you ask?
BECAUSE I'M LOCKED IN HERE -- THAT'S WHY!
HELP!!! "

hehe..

I doubt the Syreen are stronger psychics than the Dynarri. I do remember something about them manipulating the Ur-Quan in some way.. hmm, but it certainly isn't as strong as the Dynarri, or else the Syreen could've taken over the Ur-Quans and finish the war very easily..

Unless it's just really clever and want's you to think it's dead?

I mean, the Dnyarri aren't exactly known for being honest and forthcoming are they? The little bugger would have a much better chance to extract revenge if you thought he was dead.

... and we blew up the taalo shield. Great.

Chenjesu were somewhat like Taalo though, at least physically. Perhaps they have some good advice to give, or some crystalline relaxation technique they can teach us.

Zenjesuism, the path of the rock.
Mrrnhroga, the metallic balance.

Combine them, and you have an unstoppable way of life.

Maybe we expand into a new region of the map, and find a star system labelled "Arrakis", and once you fulfil the subquest there you get to go around reading minds, but there is one entity your probes cannot reach, one place that fills you with terror... the Dnyarri!

In that case,  how many credits would you get at the starbase for a kilotan of melange? And how much would the melnorme pay for a stunned spiceworm? perhaps the Fremen could fulfill the same purpose as the Orz marines on your new ship?

so many questions, so little time

      This is a possible way for the Dnyarri could come back into the game.

During the epic battle of wiping out the Sa-Matra, the Dnyarri knowing his death was soon at hand concentrated all his mental power he had left, to make one of your crew let him out.  During the battle everyone was too busy to notice a dog sized animal moving around. He was able sneak onto one of the umguh ships you had in your fleet. With the battle raging around you and ships blowing up left and right, you did not think that a ship that "lost" its propulsion system was peculiar. The umguh ship being under the Dnyarri's control stayed "powerless" till it was out of sensor range. Since the umguh were the ones who returned him to sentience, he took they ship so they could turn more talking pets back into Dnyarri. Once the ship was out of sensor range he took it into hyperspace to look for an Ur-Quan ship, to find another of his species. He would greet the ship, control it, have the talking put transferred over, and then destroy it. He did this several times till he had enough to start to repopulate. He found some, in middle of nowhere planet, and started the process or bringing his race back.

     Several years past.

Now the Dnyarri had swelled there numbers. They remembered how they were able to take control of the Sentient Milieu and where planning to do the same, until they were discovered by a fleet of  2,154 ships comprised of 20% chmmr avatars, and 80% earthling cruisers that where searching for a major Ur-Quan Base. The Dnyarri instantly took control of the earthling cruisers. The chmmr were confused for a while when the earthling ships started landing on the planet. Their confusion was shorter that the Dnyarri were hoping for. The chmmr captains realized what must be taking place and were saddened and quick to take action. From any outside viewers perspective it must have looked like the chmmr had lost it. Suddenly every Chmmr ship turned and open fired on the earthling cruisers that were about to take off. The earthling ships weapons are next to worthless against the chmmrs defenses, but the chmmrs weapons sliced through the grounded earthling cruisers and made canyons below them. The resulting display put the shofixti's glory device to shame. The Chmmes fire were dead on and the fusion plants in the earthling cruisers lost containment and set off the ship's missiles. The explosion lit up the dark side of the planet like it was day. That planets atmosphere would not be breathable for a few hundred years. Only 134 earthling cruisers got off the ground. The terrified Dnyarri started to run for the hyper-limit, but 96 more cruisers were lock on by the Chmmrs tractors and were pulled to there deaths. 10 more had lost there hyper-drives and were only a matter of tracking down. Out of the 1723 original Earthling Cruisers only 18 made it to the hyper-limit. The Dnyarri knowing they have been discovered decided the best chance defeating the chmmrs mighty avatars would be the Ur-quan, the Kohr-Ah and the Utwig. They decided to split up and try to take control of each or all.
This is where you would start talking about the hero and how he comes into the picture. Most likely its going to be a chmmr who has made a similar device to Toalo mind device and starts to converts controlled fleets back to normal. Or something like that. :D

Even though I cant write worth a darn I thought that this would be pretty good to base a plot off of. And also a good explination of how he got off and got back into power.

Btw when you see its a byproduct of copying from word
(i use it to spell check) :-[


I just found out you can modify previous posts  ;D
so you wont see "&#8221" above this one

All good and well, but how many of us brought Umgah ships with us to the final battle? Otherwise quite nic, but that is a HUGE fleet.

i did say it was a major base ;D

Yeah, but (and correct me if I'm wrong), I seem to rememebr reading somewhere that the entire quan fleet of dreadnoughts consisted of like 500 or thousand ships. So an alliance fleet that big in just a few years after we get our starfaring ability back?

I could continue  and say they wanted overwelming majority  ;D
but the truth is a picked a number out of thin air and went from there. ;)
if you want to you could divide the fleet by 10 makes it more reaonable.

I know i did not, but in real life you would take every ship you could get your hands on including the umguh ships

I disagree. In real life, you were well aware of the fact that your forces were not able to out of hand defeat both Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah. Alos, you did not want to get noticed by the Sa-Matra too early, as it could have wiped your fleet out. Therefore, it would be logical to take a small group of ships, sneak through Ur-Quan space without setting off every possible alarm, distract the guards, sneak in and blow the thing up. A small group is less likely to be noticed... ANd if you can only take a few ships with you, would you really bring an Umgah to the battle?

I would do the opposite because the Sa-Matra's sensors have to be good enough to pick you up no matter what the size of your fleet. I would use every ship i had as a sort of "human shield" so i could ram my ship into it.



Think of how close the quasi portal was to the Sa-Matra
i think it was within a day of the star(I think got to check that one out) so they probly didnt have enough time to deploy it.

I believe the reason it was not deployed is because the Ur-Quan thought that there picket would be enough to kill you, but the dynarri changed that. and they could not possibly know you had the bomb and where on a sucide mission.

Hmmm.. Once again I disagree : )

I think the Sa-Matra, though in a defensive mode probably picked you up quite easily, just as you say. However, the guard around the Sa-Matra was deemed enough to take care of you, seeing as you weren't a big threat. As you say, they couldn't know about the bomb and the Talking Pet, so you were just a pitifully small group of alines.

However, if you'd come blasting in with a full fleet, every ship you could possibly get from every ally you had, they may well have reevaluted the situation. Even then, your fleet wouldn't have been able to punch a hole through the entire defensive ring, but better safe than sorry. And against the Sa-Matra, you would have been incinerated long before you got into pet range.

Also, when I referred to slipping in, I meant through the Quan space. I doubt even the Sa-Matra is powerful enough to keep a radar going through several starsystems. It'll notice you when you enter the system, but probably not very long before that. Unless you bring a whole fleet, and then you'll be spotted as easily as the human starbase spots the Pkunk migration.

will there be anything we can more than half-agree on? ;D

just to disagree with you agian. the ur-quan where very reluctant to pull it out to fight the alliance. so they would NOT be looking for any excuse to pull it out. Remember the Sa-Matra was the prize for the side who won the doctrinal wars.

there were two reasons i pick the umguh one i listed in the story and a other was it had a small crew, hence easier to control.
If you are so inssitant that a umguh ship would not have been there, then pick a ship and have the dynarri fly it to umguh space to get one of their ships.

YAY THIS IS MY FIRST POST THAT WENT VERY HOT!!!!!!!!!!  ;D

well, actually I enjoy disagreeing, it makes for a nice debate  ;)

The Ur-Quan would be very reluctant to bring out the Sa-Matra, true. But that does not mean that they absolutely wont. They brought it out against the Chenjesu and Mrnhrm as well, because they needed to take them down. And if any reason qualifies for dusting the old Sa-Matra off again agaisnt us inferior races, then it would be the audacity of approaching their price trophy. Seeing as neither side would want to use up their own forces fighting us (they had something more important to fight about). So the ideal solution would be to burn us out of the sky, and then continue their Doctrinal Conflict without damaging their own forces. Plus, as I said, a large fleet like that is easier to detect from far off, by the other Quan forces, and would give them ample time to prepare.

Also, as a side point, would the Pkunk be able to detect that something was amiss in the fleet? Assuming the pkunk come to your help...

But for the rest, you are absolutely right. It doesn't matter how the Dnyarri get's away, only that it does, and gets to the Umgah...

It seems that when your thinking that my idea of a fleet is 20,000,000 it more like 30 to 40  where the ur-quan had like over a hundred ships there. :P


that is a good point but as i see it the Pkunk would be too busy insulting the Sa-Matra with words like "loser" "idiot" "moron" and "dweeb"
like i said they were too busy to notice a dog sized animal running around! ;D

There were a lot of ships flying around there, sure, but it was the most important thing the Quan's had, so they would want to guard it... But still, you are right, that does mean fleets must be bigger than I thought of originally. Still, my point was that that's a lot of earthlings and chenjesu, them having just built them all and fought a war at that. The Quan have a a lot of resources behind them while the alliance don't really have that many...

But doesn't that just validate my argument? If there really are tha many Quans, no matter how many ships you drag with you from your allies, you wont be able to punch a hole in the Quan defences, so they will only buy you early detecyion, and then you'll have to deal with the rest of their fleet before you ever get to the Sa-Matra.

And too busy fighting not to notice a small animal, sure. But too busy not to notice the presence of the most evil vreature in the Quadrant having it's wicked way with some1? Also, I seem to recollect that even though some pkunk and yehat joined your fleet, there were more of them holding off the Quan and buying you time (or am I worng bout this?), and they should have noticed....

if continue on this discustion of noticing mental powers we would have to base our discusions on some kind of tech manual of how they work.
could a Dynarri hide his presence?
could he block them from sencing him?
does the toalo device hurt the pkunk so they would not use there powers?

also if the pkunk senced his powers they would most likely think it was a atempt to confuse the Ur-Quan.

Yes, but any ship breaking away to from the main battle would seem suspicious to those further off (assuming they are there and watching it).

I wonder if the Dnyarri can hide itself? I mean, it seems that it's basic approach when threatened is to take ppl over and make them go away, or forget. As a species they are sneaky though so maybe. But a creep that is stupid enough to answer the Umgahs caster itself instead of sending an Umgah to do it doesn't seem like the kind that hides a lot.

Also, the Taalo device blocks pshycic powers, but only on the ship, not in space around it, whcih is why the Dnyarri can confuse the Quan (I think). But if it leaves the main ship to escape, it'll be outside that sphere, no longer hidden by it, visible to anyone who knows how to look...

So to summarize up the answers to your questions (well, my answers, obviously they might be completely wrong, they are only an opinion after all)

-Probably not, and even if it could, would it understand to do so?
-Possibly, but all the Pkunk? And if Pkunk are really in contact with eachother through a psychic conenction, could he take over the enitre race?
-No.

It's an interesting dilemma though. Too bad we have no way of knowing their psychic strenghts.... But still, one individual versus a race, or a large group? he'd have to be VERY powerful.

remember he took over ALL of the umguh so once he was from under the shield he woul have his full power back

Yes, but the Umgah aren't psychic. If anything they strike me more like the Quans, focused on material things, and thus unprepared for psychic powers. Also, it'd not only have to take care of them ,but undoubtedly also of all the rabid Quan who at this stage were enetering the system... That's a lot of work

It seems to me that his compusions work untill they are "completed" remember when you were compelled you were deep into Ur-Quan space. so he could have compelled the ship then "shutdown" so it would have senced to the pkunk that he was still doing things in the flag ship. and continued to concentraite on the Ur-Quan. so after the flag ship blew they assumed he was dead and continued as nothing happend

Or perhaps hen keeps you under control until you have arrived? Anyway, how do you think he'd shut himself down? Knocking himself out with something. Also, if he just gives the order, and the crewmen follow it blindly until they've completed it, chances are he'll never make it out alive. why? Simple:

Rememebr the Umgah under his thrall? regardless if these were under constant control, or had certain orders implanted (i believe more in the first btw), they weren't very.. flexible. They didn't have much initative. So if someone is flying a ship through a battle with the only thought in their head being "MUST. LEAVE. SYSTEM", chances are they wont be very creative about answering hails from other ships, or even avoiding incoming ships and fire.

Do you mean that after he'd given this crew an order and "shut down", whatever that is, he'd be undetectable? So no new orders, and there's still one ship leaving mysteriously in the middle of the battle... Out of your small fleet,  past Pkunmk lines, through the Quan doing their damnedest to get to the Sa-Matra, and oone notices or shoots it?

First the orders i would give is "DRIFT OUT OF SYSTEM AND DONT RESPOND TO HAILS" If the ship was drifting and not responding the Ur-Quan would assume it was damaged or dead and leave it alone to take care of the ones acualy firing at them. For your side you would probly think it was some freak hit to the bridge, hence its drifting and not responding.  :P
and shuting down i was thinking of something like it would meditate on nothingness or something like that. :P

Well, for the record, I don't believe a Dnyarri can meditate, or achieve nothingness of mind. And I think it would be unable to mask it's evil completely from someone attuned to the astral planes.. But that's just my opinion.

Also, I have to say that I feel that a drifting ship would not be able to float out of the system on it's own. When faced with such insolence, such audacity against the symbol of Quan-ness, their Great Trophy, I don't think anything would make it out alive, wether it's drifitng or not. The Quan forces storming into that sytem would be in a murderous rage to destroy the heretics. Certainly one or two of those arriving later would fire a pot shot at a helpless enemy ship drifting, regardless of wether it was moving or not. Also, with all the scanners going round the starcon universe, you'd think they'd be able to scan any ship to determine if there is any life left in it. And none would be permitted to leave alive after being involved in such a project...

if the ship had did a full burn before shutting down. it would have a base velocity that would make it hard to follow.

I bet one of his ancestors experimented with meditation. soo he would know how to do it.

REMEMBER it takes less that a minute seconds to leave a system. so in theory he could be in hyper before the Ur-Quan arrive.

If memory serves you right, he talks to you just before you enter the samatra with the flagship to blow it up. Even if he is on one of your battle ships at this stage, it's too late to get out of the system without being spotted by the Quan or the Pkunk. But I'll concede that you may be right, there is always a possibility, no matter how slim I think it is, that he got out scot free, the Pkunk didn't see him, the Quan didn't care. Thisd argument has really reached the point where we just say, can too can not (or will soon anyway), so we may just as well agree to disagree. : )

CAN TOO!!!!!!!!!! ;D

well think of it this way he has hoping, no he was deperate. so in deperation he thought of a plan that worked. but was very risky.
does that work for you?

Ok, so out of desperation he tried something that was probably certain death, or meant being noticed. But the alternative definitive certain death. I'll go with that.

So, maybe he did get away... No matter how unlikely the evnt, as you've shown, it does make for an interesting story.

now that we have agreed that it is a interesting story

anybody want to use it?

It's a shame they didn't put in that hilarious PC ending in the 3DO version..
The Dynarri says he managed to escape somehow and now he plans on a his role in the sequel to SC2 ;)

hahah

that was so funny.
Anyone got all the lines transcribed? from all the other races too

All the lines from the end credits of the pc version can be found at :

http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc2/quotes/

They're the first thing mentioned for every race (or nearly every, I thuink it's every but I haven't looked it through in a while.


EDIT: Not the Chmmr, Commander, Ilwrath, Melnorme, Mycon,  Safe Ones, Slylandro, Spathi,, ungah and VUX. But I'm fairly sure most of these weren't in the thingy anyway, although some might have been. My memory is hazy I'm afraid.

I cannot tell wether you were mocking the idea or joking ???
but im pretty sure they did not say that the dynarri got out but they didn't say he did not.

EDIT: got to love those double negatives

No jokes, no mockings. Those lines really appear in the end of the PC version, and they're hilarious. And while they have no bearing on the subject, they are a welcome interdiction into the conversation, cause they are WAY funny. Especially the Kohr-Ah

now that iv read it a memory a faint one comes to me I remember. That was in the game i remember reading it.... i think

Dnyarri: So! You probably thought I was dead... DIDN'T YOU!?
Well I'm not! I got away from the ship at the last second
and now I'm REALLY going to cause some trouble!
In fact, that's what the sequel is going to be about!
Yeah, that's the ticket! Me and my exciting adventures
as I conquer the galaxy for the greater glory of... ME!
It will have action! It will have drama!
It will have gratuitous alien sex scenes!
It's gonna be great!

Ha!  I guessed right!!   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D ::) :D

The Dnyarri are alive!

Just look in Umgah space around. While the one was controlling some Umgah, he made them revive other talking pets.
They just hid until all was safe agin. The moment SC3version2 starts in gameplay, the Dnyarri have been controlling all known space for over a thousand years again.

Good point. Ouch. So how does the main chracter free itself of the Dnyarri? Perhaps he stumbles upon a book written by the famous Kzer-Za....

No, that's when the Captain gets back from his honeymoon. ;D

That's a loong honeymoon. Also, he needs to make it back to Vela after five years, so a thousand years later must be another captain... Perhaps SC4?

In that case SC3 could be one of those (IMO) cool stories where evil triumphs in the end. Even though you do your best, in the end the Dnyarri win, and you are executed, or take your own life.

That starts changing the ending of SC2 again (unless SC3 lasts past the grandchildren of the Captain).  :P

But when he tells the story to his grandchildren, he is already udner mind control! And so are they! It's a sadistic Dnyarri punishment, to make the Captain relive his past triumph, and realize, that it had been better to let the Kohr-Ah win.

in the ending he never mentions why he was deleayed it could have been a war with the dynarri.
think of why the dynarri would lose
1) chmmrs and their avatars
2) the Ur-Quan already knows how to defeat the compustion.
3) if you go with the story i wrote everyone would know the ships that have been taken by the dynarri so only small fleets out of contact would get close enough to be taken countrol of.
4) EVERYONE would be sure shoot first if they thought a dynarri is near.
5) the pkunk and syreen could sence them when they are near.

but it would be a bloody battle probibly a good idea for some kind mix betweena rpg and a rts.

Wouldn't it be kind of impossible to stop the Dnyarri though (Yes this is going completely against what i said in the beginning of the thread, but i thought about it)? I mean, all they have to do is travel outwards, hijack a new ship every time the old one runs out of fuel, and soon they'll be so far away from us that we cannot catch them. And they'll have found a whole new bunch of races to dominate.

Incidentally, I saw your thread over at Channel 44 as well. Trying to get away from disagreeing with me?;) You'll have to do better..   ;D

Don't forget one Dynarri took control of an entire race.. as he grew stronger - "first the hospital, then the city, then the entire planet"... and then the nearby solar systems! that's SOME mind compulsion!

* and I guess you were kidding about the reviving other talking pets, since all the rest are serving on Ur-Quan vessles... nah, you were kidding ;)

I imagine that if the Ur-Quan ever found out about the Dnyarri, they would put on some excrutiators and blow the crap out of anyone that got in their way while they hunt the little bugger down.  Either that or a race that doesn't mind torment for months could go after it.  I'm thinking either the Thraddash or the illwraith (if they haven't killed each other.)  

Or if the Taalo are still alive, as has been hinted, the game could be spent trying to find them before the Dnyarri wipes everyone out.  

Plot Continued

Now the dynarri have control of 70 percent the quadrant. World after world have fallen and only the Chmmrs have been able to stand up to them. Since  chmmr forces were already worn down do to the Ur-Quans wars. The chmmrs have been forced on the defensive and have been losing. The syreen have abandon their home the Pkunk and the yehat have retreated. The Utwig and the Supox are under the control of the dynarri. The mycon have been all but wiped out, and the vux ran away. Earth and all their data on the modules of the precursor ship have fallen into dynarri hands. [Insert any other races and their alignment]  The majority of the people who are not under the control of the dynarri have fled to the core of the chmmrs forces. The dynarris advanced has stopped mysteriously. The chmmrs have built and tested a mind Shield device. There is one problem the device is hard to manufacture and takes a rather rare elements. Armed with your new ship that is actually a battle platform not a workhorse ship. You must find these rare elements to build more mind shields so that you can increase your fleet. The bad news is, that like your other ship it is only a skeleton and its technology is more advance then the last one so you cannot build the modules. You must either find them or maybe another race can build these modules. You must build more mind shields and increase the fleet size and take back your worlds.

My idea is that instead of selling information on races the melnorme can build and upgrade your ships for biological data. The reason the dynarri can no longer expand is that they control too much space and don't have enough dynarri.

Also you could have the Ur-Quan and the Kohr-Ah join as allies but in their dialoged they are always mad and they insult you. [ excruciators and the fact you let it live]

The real question is how to get new and exciting species to make us laugh.  I propose that the map is shifted so that all the area that sc2 took place in is not the center of the map instead shift it over to the right to expose all that space there for exploration.

Of course this is all a suggestion.  Lukipela you may disagree all you want.

Something like this would create some strange bed-fellows.  Both types of Ur Quan would be going all out with the Chmmr fighting the Dynarri.  But I think the Ultron would allow the Utwig to escape Dynarri control, but the Supox would likely be controlled rather easily due to their affinity for forming symbiotic relationships with other races.  

then make a funny story about how the ultron was destroyed...... AGAIN
by a elite commando unit of dynarri. ;D trained in a SPECIAL form of martial arts and have the knowledge of how to kill a human with only their..... um..... hmm....... legs? ::)
and you have fix the ultron... AGAIN to get them from under the control of the dynarri. 8)

Well Bioslayer, I prefer to think of myself as someone who gives constructive criticism, so now that we have indeed deteermined that there is a slight chance that your Dnyarri did survive, I will be content to sit back and listen to the rest of the story with great interest, occasionally contruibuting and commenting.

An easy way to get new species into this would be that you have to go outside the boundaries of the quadrant with the help of the Arilou, to recruit other races to help you fight, provide you with new technologies, and teach you new things.

I think that the Ultron might save a FEW utwig, but most would be controlled.

The Supox could go either way. Being plants, their minds might be too different, much like the Taalo or Chmmr (though the Chmmr haven't shown themselves to be immune to psychic effects - look at a battle between a Chmmr with no zapsats, and a syreen).

Also, I see a grat opportunity for the Captain to earn some respect from the Ur-Quan by donning an excuciator and wearing it for the entire game.

Arrgh, it's such a shame they didn't put in the original PC ending in the 3DO.. I wanted to quote from where the Utwig break their Ultron again.. hahahahhaha  ;D

Hello again, heroic humanoid!
Ever since you returned the Ultron to us
everything has been WONDERFUL... just perfect!
Within just two days our factories will begin churning out
appropriate facial appliances, and I have already picked out my first mask
the Domino of Unrivaled Merriment!
Yes, we are all ecstatic... even the High Proctor gambols
as she performs the Exultant Caper of Revelation!
Look how she leaps with the Ultron held high!
How she twists, how she twirls, how she slips and tosses the Ultron into the air... OH NOOooooo!!!
(CRASH!!)

what does that have to do with a elite Dynarri commando team?

How stupid do the Utwig have to be to have the Ultron destroyed yet again?  I mean, how hard could it be to put it on a harness or cushion the floor?  I'm sure that every other Precursor part you find won't fit into the blasted thing.  The Captain can't be searching the galaxy constantly looking for parts for the Ultron.  If the Jugger didn't rule like it does...

Hehehe.. gotta love SC2  8)

A dnyarri commmando team? Sppoky. All they'd have to do is mindcontrol the best warriors i nthe world, and use them

well one way the dynarri could have a commando team is like the orz... COMBAT SUITS!!  with pinstripes ;D

THATS A GOOD IDEA!!

so the controled are the
utwig, supox, zotfoqpik, druuge, vux, thraddish, spathi,

and the un-controled who are opposing the dynarri are the
chmmr, human, syreen, yehat, pkunk, urquan, orz, araluo

and the un-controled who are not aligned with the alliance are the
kohr ah, mycon, ilwrath, umguh, melnorme

Being the voice of dissent:

I thought the umgah would have to be under their control in order for the Dnyarri to be able to use them to free his people?

Also, if one Dnyarri can control the entire Umgah sphere of influence, I think it makes more sense for them to control a commando squad of say Traddash elite warriors rather than actually getting into the heat of things themselves. Unless they are fighting against some sort of mind shield that covers a large area of course...

well not all of them would be.

"a majority would have escaped" said me

Well, the Taalo were onto something... I think that with the Taalo Shield, the New Alliance is on pretty safe ground.  I mean, those flowers sure are pretty...  isn't that what we should be concerned about here?  Nice, pretty flowers...

Well...there are a couple of problems.  

1.The Taalo Shield was presumably destroyed with the Flagship and the Sa Matra.
2.The Shield was not understood even when the Alliance had it.  They didn't even instal it properly.

yea but the chmmr are smart and could make one!
MUHAHAHAHA
HA

I think the Chmmr are more likely to be psychotic than brilliant.  Hey... they could put that in the sequal too!  The Chmmr weren't in the oven long enough, and now they are losing their minds and attacking everyone.

I dunno where that psychotic behaviour would come from... neither the Mmrnmhrm nor the Chenjesu showed any sort of hostile personalities.  The Chenjesu were diplomats who seeked to make alliances not war, while the Mmrnmhrm withdrew from contested territories in Spathi space when they wished to claim them as their own.

Even if they do get a little wacko and cook too quickly in the oven, there seems to be no calculable part which would change the Chmmr during the process.  Since they are Chenjesu and Mmrnhmrm, and nothing else, I am led to believe no additional part could change their inherrant natures.

i dont think it would work if you had psychotic good guys and ultimate evil bad guys.

Well, the Chmmr would blow random stuff up and talk to themselves, but they mean well.  They might be too crazy to be controlled by the Dynarri.  They might not be so useful due to paranoia and scratching at bugs under their skin.  That just adds to the challenge of the game.

Just my opinion, but this type of plot twist is unbelievable, unexplainable, and wouldn't be fun to play IMHO...  I'm referring to 'psychotic Chmmr', of course.  If anything were to interest me in a real SC2 sequel, it would be getting to know the real Chmmr, and being able to see the Chenjesu and the Mmrnmhrm sides within them...  it would be neat to see the new role they play in the Alliance, as unofficial leaders as they did before.  They're not the kind of race that would just switch sides or go wacko...  I don't think rushing the process like that would explain your storyline.  I'd rather see the Chmmr be developped as unique and intriguing allies, personally.

Now, the the Zoq Fot Pik as enemies would be intimidating...  ;D  I could see that happening.

we could have the dynarri bring back the zebranky and use them as a motivator to fight harder. ;D

i still think the ultimate conversation would be with a vux that was compulsed to have plastic surgury to look like a human.
he keeps on talking about the knowing the pain humans must have too look soooooo uuuggllyy! ;D (get some super model to play as the vux)

The Chmmr themselves said that the process was incomplete.  Something as complicated as the fusion of two entirely different races (one robotic and one crystalline) has got to be a sensitive process.  Side effects could range from trouble adapting to new anatomy to having 2 or more personalities in the same body.  

You would have to find some way to find some way to seperate them and have them do the process right.  They could pop out in time for SCIV.

I agree with Sudo_Nym. The process was a complicated and delicate one. If something went wrong, we really have no idea what happens, just because they were peaceful to begin ith doesn't mean that a trauma of that magnitude couldn't make them somewhat... erratic.

I must say this is a good idea.. the sequel should NOT be based mainly on the Chmmr, but that could be a good side-story.

Rather make them mysterious and excentric than suicidal / on a killing spree

how about this.. they should always be in a hurry, as if they have found an answer to a question they never shared with us........ sounds familiar? :P

Maybe they break down, and get depressed, and we need to give them an ultron.

Then we discover that the Utwig are really crystal-machine hybrids, and the Ultron expands the consciousness of such beings.

or the ultron is a realy advanced 8 ball ;D

(shake it and it tells you a possible future)

what are your ideas on possible conversations?
such as my idea of a vux that had plastic surgury.

Why would a VUX get plastic surgury in order to look like a human unless he liked humans like that per...asthetic General ZEX?  If it was an accident like that episode of the Twilight Zone, then the guy would probably kill himself when he finds out.  Short conversation there.

Dnyarric compulsion, duh.

My God... they're just evil enough to do it...those maniacs

It could be an Umgah prank.  They are adept with biological implants and transformations, so changing a VUX into a human would be right up their alley...  It wouldn't surprise me that they're the best damned plastic surgeons in the galaxy.  However, this stoy twist seems to lack something, and I don't think it's up to par with SC2 standards.

Back to the original idea of the Dnyarri escaping on the escape pod with you:

Well.... on the PC version, you DO lose consciousness and awaken near the Syreen woman.  So, did you black out because of the explosion, or did the Dnyarri wait until the right moment to take over your mind so you wouldn't suspect anything?  :)

I don't like this whole idea of the dnyarri on the ship escaping, simply because you have the Taalo shield. It seems to have done a good enough job up to this point, why would it fritz out now?
Decent precautions could do the job so that crew would be unable to just casually free the thing in the time during combat: computer- controlled locks that will NOT let go; welded-shut doors, etc.
Of course, if it's necessary for a sequel...

Well, it's assumed that the Taalo Shield blows up along with the ship at the end of the game...

What stops the Talking Pets from turning back to their old, psychic, evil selves?  I seem to remember that the Ur-Quan modified their DNA or something, to ensure that they wouldn't be able to control anybody like in the past.  I think the whole conversation with the Dnyarri, and the whole joke about him being stuck in the cargo hold at the end of the game, was to confirm that they would not be a threat in any possible sequel.   I don't like to think of them as the ultimate villains in a game, although some smaller role in a possible SC2 sequel would be tolerable.

Some other race could use them as psychic control amplifiers, along with some Syreen ships.  They'd still be non-sentient, but instead of telepathically translating, they'd be bio-weapons.

I agree; if added to the sequel, the Dnyarri should NOT be the main quest in the game, rather a side-story.

why? every story needs a bad guy and the dynarri are perfect for the job.


did you guys read my proposed plots?
they are in this thread

Yes, I just didn't like them. Sorry.

It really was a nice try - but the problem for me is that the Dnyarri so completely dominated the tone that there is little room for side quests. I mean, in SC2 you have the Ur-Quan vs. everyone else at the beginning, then it's Ilwrath vs. Pkunk (though there's really not too much you can do about it), then it's Androsynth vs. Orz, Spathi vs. the ULTIMATE EVIL (I know, not much of a threat to you, but it's a major plot point not connected to the Ur-Quan), Kzer-Za vs. Kohr-Ah, Umgah vs. the Dnyarri, Thraddash vs all comers, Mycon vs. Syreen, Yehat vs. Yehat, and Melnorme vs. Druuge.

Now you may see what the nature of the problem is. If the Dnyarri are loose, it is SUCH a big deal that there is very little room for anything else to be going on.

If the Dnyarri mind-controlled everyone, it would take a lot of the diplomacy out of the game, in my opinion.  There would be no room for compromise, just the orders of the Dnyarri taking over.  I think the story needs multiple facets in that respect, so that diplomacy, exploration, and communication are involved.  I don't believe that them playing a big role as the main bad guy would do this... doesn't mean I don't like the Dnyarri as enemies, because they're pretty bad-ass brain-frogs.

no the dynarri and chmmr are fighting think of that as the urquan vs kohr ah.
you would have to enlist other races to get them too help but in order for them to help instead of run away you have to prove to them that you can defeat them.

you can have new races that wont belive you or just dont care.
and so on so there are plenty of room.

I have to go with Death_999 on this side. If the Dnyarri get loose and are really dangerous, how much diplomacy would you need to persudade ppl to go against them? Not really that much, afetr they see their neighbours succumbing. And you couldn't win any race back except through war. But I like the idea of a Dnyarri as a Bioweapon. That could be quite a problem, if someone gets their hands on a few of those....

ooh, yeah - weaponized talking pets would be serious trouble, especially if you don't know who is using them

In a sense, the Dnyarri ARE the current game's (SC2) villans!

Think about it.. the game is named "the Ur-Quan Masters", the Kohr-Ah want to end all existence, and..

hmm

ok

maybe it's not that obvious ;)


As you advance in the plot, you understand that actually only the Kohr-Ah are evil (you send the Thraddash to fight them, plus the Utwig and the Supox). Even the Kzer-Za tell you of how evil they are (something like, "you've killed dozens of our ships. begone, so we can win the doctrinal war").

After meeting the Dnyarri for the first time you realize what potential it has for evil.. and a few history classes teach you that they really ARE the evil guys in the game. The whole Ur-Quan menance started because of them, and here you have one on your flagship, one tiny animal that, in a sense, is even worse than the precursor bomb. A true villan - one which is not obvious and active..  a bigger evil is the one you don't recognize, the one who's pulling the strings!

How about this? The race using the Talking Pets as bioweapons is the Dnyarri itself! I think it's evil enough to use it's fellow Dnyarri as tools, at least until he has some semblence of control.

And I think there's room enough in the given plot for the Dnyarri to have escaped the destruction of the Vindicator. The Taalo shield wasn't properly installed and the Dnyarri could exercise some form of limited mind control, beyond even the flowers bit. If you try to destroy it on the Umgah homeworld, it compels you into taking it on board, Taalo shield be damned.

Hmmm! How interesting! During that last little threat, I noticed something WONDERFUL!
YOU DON'T HAVE THE TAALO SHIELD DEVICE PROPERLY INSTALLED!
Ha-ha-ha! Fool! You could have fired upon me.
Now, I fear, you will have to accept my offer.
I will join you on board your vessel. Together, we will exact MY revenge and perhaps incidentally, realize your own plans as well.
After this it comes on board and there's nothing you can do about it. And even while on board, it seems to be constantly trying to figure out how to exploit the Taalo shield's weakness. When you talk to it, there's a time it says:

Captain. The Taalo device on board this vessel is giving me a headache, please remove it.
NOW, Captain! It is foolish to resist!...
Hmmm... it remains more effective than I had thought, you are still able to disobey.
Uh, remains effective? Still able to disobey? This implies that either the Taalo shield's effectiveness is somehow waning or the Dnyarri is finding a way around it. See? No complicated plot tweaking required. No wild hypotheses or additions needed. The Dnyarri's ability to escape is clearly outlined in the game as is.

wild hypotheses? tweaking?
didn't we discuess the villans of the game rather than how could the Dnyarri escape?

hmm though the Dnyarri controlling other pets idea is a cool. good thinking!

No, I'm pretty sure the whole thread is about the DNyarri, and how he escaped from the Vindicator  :P

I have to say that I find the idea of the Dnyarri using other talking Pets as slaves a bit strange. It must be more effective tio raise them to sentience surely? hmm... i wonder how the Dnyarri ranking system works...

This Dnyarri might view all other Dnyarri as a threat, not wanting them to be sentient.

The biggest brain wins.

I dunno whether all Dnyarri are like the Talking Pet you get from the Umgah.  You know... arrogant, conceded, impatient...  in my mind, for the Dnyarri's efficient enslaving of the sentient milieu, their ranking system would have to be pretty organized, if not amalgomized.  That would be the only way to control such powerful races in such a short period of time...

I agree, the Dnyarri must have had an effective system of cooperating, otherwise they could never had spread so quickly. Also, if they were competing with eachother, they wouldn't have held all the races under them, like the Quan imply. You'd have had a Stargate scenario, with loads of different Dnyarri fighting eachother and everyone else. Of course, the Quan don't say this out straight, and they might even remember it wrong, but one does get the impression that the Dnyarri didn't fight eachother.

Perhaps the one Dnyarri we know is different fro mthe old ones? The Umgah may not have restored him completely, or he might be insane by Dnyarri standards, or he might just be very bitter...

According to the Melnorme:

As the centuries of Dnyarri dominance passed, what was once the Sentient Milieu deteriorated and degenerated into a great galactic gulag
The Dnyarri may have cooperated in spreading themselves and even insofar as they likely didn't attack one another, but it's clear that their organization skills aren't quite so far-reaching as to overrule their inherent laziness. I mean, if many different races and cultures who are forced to sort things out and debate and who must work to keep themselves united toward a common goal are more efficient at keeping things stable than a single race... that just speaks volumes.

Omni-Sama:
The biggest brain wins.

I like that. And which Talking Pet has the biggest brain of them all? If he used his less evolved bretheren as tools there would be no chance that he could be overthrown by a Dnyarri with a bigger brainpan or stronger powers than he. In his own twisted mind, he would have the "right" to rule over the other Dnyarri in that way. And who can forget the endgame quote, where the Dnyarri says he wants to conquer the galaxy for HIS greater glory? While those are meant to be amusing, I can't think of a statement more in character than that.

Ummm, I didn't actually make the brain statement, but I agree, it sounds as if it is the most likely scenario. After all, they can't really match up for brawn can they.

On the other hand, the Dnyarri are supposed to have been a selfish race, no? I think that if one of their number turned out to be a lot stronger than the rest, and tried to dominate them, surely the other would band together against him?

Hey, that was me who said that!   ;)  It makes sense in my mind, since the Dnyarri like to manipulate other species so much.  I wouldn't be surprised if they enjoy manipulating themselves as well, meaning the most psychically adept would hav the greatest power.  That type of hierarchy seems to suit the greedy, selfish nature of the Dnyarri.

I always pictured Ur-Quan to-the-death ring fights, arranged by the Dnyarri, where they bet on their greatest fighter.. you know, like all those Van-Damme movies ;)

Could they manipulate eachother that easily though? I assume that if one is a creature with a powerful mind, capable of controlling "lesser" creatures telepathically, you'd think one would catch on to anyone else trying to sneak into one's brain rather quickly. And raise merry hell about it as well. And if they did that, would they be able to keep their slave empire under ANY control? If one Dnyarri attacks another mentally, trying to subjugate it, wouldn't the other one drop everything it's doing to defend itself? Likewise, wouldn't the first one have to focus on only this and let go of unimportant slaves?

Now imagine the Dnyarri going around jumping eachother all the time, that's leave a lotr of slaves uncontrolled, and eager to rebel. Even if there were other Dnyarri nearby, it'd take these some time to catch on to what the hell had just happened to the docile slaves, and by then, they could have been squashed.

I like the idea of the biggest brain wins, but I think it'd be a big no-no in Dnyarri culture to pounce eachother. maybe they measure rank on telepathic strength, but in that case they probably had some sort of controlled tournament to place everyone in their right position.

Again, all of this is my opinion, and pure speculation.

Perhaps this was the reason why the Dnyarri started giving slaves free-time.

Lukipela, that's one way to look at it; but remember that for example, as Newton theory includes forces, Einstein's theory is based on time-space disturbances (what's the word?)

What I mean to say is, who said that the Dnyarri HAS to concentrate on each of its' subordinates all the time? perhaps it creates a strong mental link and that's it?

let's take bowling balls for example; you COULD hold them in your hands all the time, and that would be hard to manipulate, but you could also tie them to yourself with chains - and then it's much easier. In the Newton-Einstein sense, these two theories are different, but they accomplish the same thing eventually.

I can't imagine individual Dnyarri not trying to compel each other out of some kind of mutual respect*. I think laziness (at first) and fear would be the more likely deterrent: fear of retribution from their slaves should they be allowed to think freely. That more than anything would keep the peace... at least for a while.

But it would also mean there's no particular stigma against using other Dnyarri should the chance arrive.

Oh, and I apologize to Omni-Sama and Lukipela for my oversight. I've corrected that little mistake.

*Remember the Dnyarri's comment about compelling each other to do the gross chores? =)

Using your bowling balls for example, even though it's quite easy to have a lot of bowling balls on chains, you'd still have to attach each cahin. And if you then tried to attach a chain to another bowler, who was trying to do the same thing to you, wouldn't you be slightly hampered bying being attached to hundreds of chains already? It'd be easier, to drop them just fro a second (they're easy to pick up, they already have the chains attached, to put the new one on, especially since the other bowler wont just sit around and let you attach the cahin, he is gona fight you with all his might.

Has anyone else read Snow Crash? I'm thinking that perhaps we could all learn from Juanita. Perhaps a bit of religious training might help against the Dnyarri...
install Jesuit School module -- 500 RU.
;)