The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: FakeMccoy on August 04, 2013, 07:57:32 am



Title: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 04, 2013, 07:57:32 am
how exactly do you contribute to the writing for it? Or is it completed already? i don't know I haven't been here for a long time and when i as on it took LITERALLY 5 months just for someone to tell me I can contribute at all.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Steve-O on August 06, 2013, 12:46:37 am
By "Star Control 3" I presume you mean Project 6014.  I don't mean to sound judgemental or anything, but you'd probably make faster progress if you at least knew the name of the fan project you're considering making contributions to.

The second step would probably be e-mailing someone in charge.  Here's the project page, complete with what looks like a few important email addresses: http://code.google.com/p/project6014/

I found that link by clicking on the first forum topic I saw with "Project 6014" in the title, btw.  It's not hard to track these people down.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 06, 2013, 04:59:19 am
Dude I've had the project for a year, I just haven't gotten back to it in a long tie and I already contributed some art and sound. In fact I recently completed my version of the entire plot-line with many loose ends closed up like ho the captain escapes, how to defeat the Lurg, what their plan is, why the Orz act the way they do,  now on the wiki page that Awakened directed me too, now they just need to decide if that's the plot-line they want to go with. I would suggest if you're a standard fan who is eager for this project to come out that you avoid the wiki page because it contains many spoilers of what can possibly put in the game, though it won't start being worked on for at least a month due to the scheduling in the lives of the main programmers.
 I merely posted this topic in case like before they would take 4-5 months to respond to me. Secondly, I purposely said "Star Control 3" because I hate the other Star Control 3 created after Paul and Fred were fired and wish it never existed and hope p6014 can replace it and wash away those terrible memories. Their new victory ditties are just an awful clash with what you would expect the style of the game to be and they have like 5 similar sounding guitar solos that remind me of 12 bar blues or rock from the 60s.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Steve-O on August 13, 2013, 03:17:10 am
Dude I've had the project for a year, I just haven't gotten back to it in a long tie and I already contributed some art and sound. In fact I recently completed my version of the entire plot-line with many loose ends closed up like ho the captain escapes, how to defeat the Lurg, what their plan is, why the Orz act the way they do,  now on the wiki page that Awakened directed me too, now they just need to decide if that's the plot-line they want to go with. I would suggest if you're a standard fan who is eager for this project to come out that you avoid the wiki page because it contains many spoilers of what can possibly put in the game, though it won't start being worked on for at least a month due to the scheduling in the lives of the main programmers.

There's a difference between contributing and taking over to do it all yourself.  Maybe the reason that people are slow to respond is (a) it takes them 5 months to read through all the stuff you wrote and (b) they'd like to find ways to incorporate their own ideas, too.

In any case, a fan project like this isn't going to be finished in a few months.  This is the sort of thing that takes years, dude.  UQM has been going for at least 10 years (probably longer) and it's still not completely finished.  Hasn't even reached "version 1.0" yet.  I would expect P6014 will take even longer since they're making up all-new content and writing all-new code, not just cleaning up and updating an existing program.

I merely posted this topic in case like before they would take 4-5 months to respond to me. Secondly, I purposely said "Star Control 3" because I hate the other Star Control 3 created after Paul and Fred were fired and wish it never existed and hope p6014 can replace it and wash away those terrible memories.

Suit yourself, but if you insist on using the name "Star Control 3" to refer to a project commonly known to the community at large as "Project 6014," don't be surprised when mere mortals such as myself get confused.  I don't have any love lost for the "official" SC3 either, but I have better things to do with my time than hate it into the ground and pretend it never happened.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 05:30:52 am
Dude I've had the project for a year, I just haven't gotten back to it in a long tie and I already contributed some art and sound. In fact I recently completed my version of the entire plot-line with many loose ends closed up like ho the captain escapes, how to defeat the Lurg, what their plan is, why the Orz act the way they do,  now on the wiki page that Awakened directed me too, now they just need to decide if that's the plot-line they want to go with. I would suggest if you're a standard fan who is eager for this project to come out that you avoid the wiki page because it contains many spoilers of what can possibly put in the game, though it won't start being worked on for at least a month due to the scheduling in the lives of the main programmers.

There's a difference between contributing and taking over to do it all yourself.  

Which is exactly why I started this
http://www.star-control.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=895&p=19914#p19914
and have been emailing other p6014 wiki authors because I didn't want to take over the entire project by myself and specifically wanted to regard contributions of other people. If I need to re-take the role as a lead writer so that we actually get something done and don't make it too convoluted I'll get some advice from the project leaders who so far support the general story I have so far.

In any case, a fan project like this isn't going to be finished in a few months.
I don't know about the programming, but if we take writing the storyline seriously we can definitely get the storyline done in a few months. After that we need the speech dialogue and missions, but if we write the plot/story-line well enough than we can clearly see missions and speeches already somewhat developed.


Suit yourself, but if you insist on using the name "Star Control 3" to refer to a project commonly known to the community at large as "Project 6014," don't be surprised when mere mortals such as myself get confused.  I don't have any love lost for the "official" SC3 either, but I have better things to do with my time than hate it into the ground and pretend it never happened.

Well I just can't stand playing that other SC3  and can barely stand looking at it and I don't like how they made the realistic version of Mycon look like flowers sitting on a rock, but more often than not I use the term "p6014" to describe project 6014 anyway, so it shouldn't be a concern.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Dabir on August 13, 2013, 01:29:19 pm
I can't speak for the people actually working on P6014, but I don't want your writing anywhere near ir. If it's anything like your forum posting, and I assume it would have to be, it would be low-effort, embarassing drivel. Now for the sake of everyone's sanity please just drop it.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 04:20:43 pm
You obviously haven't read my posts or my story-line progress so far, and frankly it's kind of insulting because I already have 20 pages (around 100,000 characters) written from scratch, not to mention a few pages redone, and then literally 12GB of planet textures as well as a n SFX library.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Umgahdrone on August 13, 2013, 06:02:49 pm
How do you expect people to suffer through 20 pages of your horrible ideas when you can't even spell the names of the alien races correctly you muppet.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 06:06:33 pm
How do you expect people to suffer through 20 pages of your horrible ideas when you can't even spell the names of the alien races correctly you muppet.

Because I was rushing through it so I could review it with zanik and a few other people. And in case you didn't know, these are fictional races. As long as you know which race is being referred to it doesn't really matter how you spell things in the rough draft.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Umgahdrone on August 13, 2013, 06:09:04 pm
You give me a strong reason to believe that you are incapable of spelling them correctly in the final version as well.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 06:09:37 pm
You give me a strong reason to believe that you are incapable of spelling them correctly in the final version as well.

No one cares.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Umgahdrone on August 13, 2013, 06:11:01 pm
I care, Dabir seems to care. A lot of people will care once they actually read your "script". How long has this project been in the making? "Noone cares" seems to be the general attitude you have about it all.
Maybe leave the writing to someone who actually does care?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 06:11:59 pm
I care, Dabir seems to care. A lot of people will care once they actually read your "script". How long has this project been in the making? "Noone cares" seems to be the general attitude you have about it all.
Maybe leave the writing to someone who actually does care?

Obviously making fuss about the rough draft isn't helping develop the plot. If you actually cared, then like other p6014 writers you'd do writing yourself. Where's your cohesive 20 page plotline that utilizes the p6014 wiki races?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Umgahdrone on August 13, 2013, 06:17:47 pm
I do care, but unlike you I am aware that I am not a great writer. This is the crux of the problem here.
The old "if you don't like it, do it yourself" approach is also pretty pointless here since I do not have the time nor the writing skill to pull it off.
The real problem is, neither have you (the latter part at least).

Your question of "where's your cohesive 20 page plotline" makes it look like you think your twenty pages (it was two posts on the star-control forum but ok) of drivel is good simply because it is "cohesive".

tl;dr: Hit the showers. Re-hire that guy in the other thread to do the writing.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 06:20:54 pm
I do care, but unlike you I am aware that I am not a great writer. This is the crux of the problem here.
The old "if you don't like it, do it yourself" approach is also pretty pointless here since I do not have the time nor the writing skill to pull it off.
The real problem is, neither have you (the latter part at least).

Your question of "where's your cohesive 20 page plotline" makes it look like you think your twenty pages (it was two posts on the star-control forum but ok) of drivel is good simply because it is "cohesive".

tl;dr: Hit the showers. Re-hire that guy in the other thread to do the writing.

I didn't say I was the best writer or even a great writer, you completely ignored the fact that I publicly posted the plotline specifically so I could get feedback to make it better. At this point you're just a petty troll.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Umgahdrone on August 13, 2013, 06:24:14 pm
"My japanese friend got offended by the Shofixti"/"Airlou "dude is calling me a troll.

Ok.

Suit yourself.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 06:31:04 pm
I didn't say they were offended I said they found it "awkward". You remind me greatly of someone else who already got kicked off the project for arguing with everyone and trolling, I wonder if that's a coincidence.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Dabir on August 13, 2013, 11:05:22 pm
You obviously haven't read my posts or my story-line progress so far, and frankly it's kind of insulting because I already have 20 pages (around 100,000 characters) written from scratch, not to mention a few pages redone, and then literally 12GB of planet textures as well as a n SFX library.
I could make 12GB of planet textures easily. Would you also like to see my 50000-line program? Or are those actually totally meaningless numbers just thrown out to look impressive? I think they might be.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 13, 2013, 11:22:34 pm
Either way I've made contributions and am continuing to contribute,
And on top of all of that the first plot line which I bet you still haven't read is only the rough draft. You yourself could make 12GB because you'd take the cheep way and make a few that were 30 feet large whereas I have at least 200 unique textures most of which you can't find anywhere online.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: danzibr on August 14, 2013, 05:12:01 pm
It's sad to see this forum degenerate so.

People are being unnecessarily harsh to FakeMccoy.  Yes, FakeMccoy makes novice mistakes of misspelling and bad grammar and calling P6014 SC3, but good ideas can come from imperfect writing.  It makes it unpleasant to read, but some of the things Kwayne said in the other thread were totally uncalled for.  There's also the issue of boasting of twenty pages for plot.  For a writer, twenty pages is very little.  In three stories I've written some thirteen hundred pages, all single-spaced with 12-point font.  And other things, like the whole premise of the shofixty too racist thread and other scientific things, apparently.  It seems to me the correct approach would be, "Hey guys, let's work together."  The problem is... a while ago I offered to write plot for P6014 and it got denied.  I'm not sure the creators are interested.

FakeMccoy, I think people would take you seriously if you edited your posts to fix all your spelling and grammatical mistakes.  While it's clear you have true dedication to P6014, it doesn't seem that way at a glance due to not taking the time to spell things properly.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 14, 2013, 05:18:32 pm
Well I was trying to pump things out so I could have something for people to review. 20 pages isn't a lot in terms of a total project but it's not like I made it in a mere hour. If you look at my latest run the story is looking a lot more cohesive and well-written with few grammatical and spelling errors, and I'm sure you're well-aware I've gone out of my way to try and get other authors on board.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: danzibr on August 14, 2013, 08:05:18 pm
Well I was trying to pump things out so I could have something for people to review. 20 pages isn't a lot in terms of a total project but it's not like I made it in a mere hour. If you look at my latest run the story is looking a lot more cohesive and well-written with few grammatical and spelling errors, and I'm sure you're well-aware I've gone out of my way to try and get other authors on board.
Oh yes, I appreciate the efforts.  I'm sure many people want to see P6014 come to fruition.  It's just... to my knowledge Cedric doesn't need help with the plot.  Then again, this is slightly dated information.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 14, 2013, 09:28:14 pm
You'd have to be a fool to take on such a great project that captivated many fans by yourself, even professional writers often have other professional writers read their stories, make suggestions, point out inconsistencies. Im sure he's no fool which is why the wiki was made and he looked at the suggestions of others as well. This project is for fans and so far by fans, notice that its plural. For some reason I'm not having any luck contacting any of the old authors I found on wiki, I guess I have to wait for the programmer to get ready.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Kwayne on August 15, 2013, 09:49:54 am
Cedric isn't much an active member of plot development anymore, danzibr. When I joined back then, he was more or less, but now the project has a different crew. A guy named Nico (a.k.a. AwakenedEyes -- not sure he's a member of this forum) is now the lead in plot development, and Damon Czanik is the project lead. They are very inclusive when it comes to new members, overly inclusive if you ask me. I agree that FakeMccoy's writing needs to be polished (very hard), especially if it was posted to be reviewed by others. People should care about the quality of such work as it shows the writers general attitude towards writing. "I was rushing it" is not an excuse. Sadly, FakeMccoy didn't yet show us a correct attitude to write, only boasting with the meaningless quantities of his work, his unimportant scientific "knowledge", his incessant utterance of guesswork and childish misconceptions, and how he takes himself more seriously than the subject matter of Star Control. If he's in P6014, don't be surprised if people -- who love SC content as it is -- won't have any interest in playing P6014. I've already lost my faith in that project the moment Nico joined.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 15, 2013, 04:40:58 pm
People should care about the quality of such work as it shows the writers general attitude towards writing. "I was rushing it" is not an excuse. Sadly, FakeMccoy didn't yet show us a correct attitude to write, only boasting with the meaningless quantities of his work, his unimportant scientific "knowledge", his incessant utterance of guesswork and childish misconceptions, and how he takes himself more seriously than the subject matter of Star Control. If he's in P6014, don't be surprised if people -- who love SC content as it is -- won't have any interest in playing P6014. I've already lost my faith in that project the moment Nico joined.

Sadly some people just don't get it and cant help themselves from trying to insult or bring down other people and ruin the project. Both the current project leaders know well enough I have a more than an enthusiastic attitude about being involved in this project, I guess you never really created anything before because you don't really understand what a rough draft is, as seen here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rough+draft. No one in their right mind would think the very first test run is suppose to be the final thing, and I already changed the major events of the plot-line. Why? Because because any person who takes anything seriously takes the time to go through things called "drafts". If I didn't know any better I'd say your...event, with no longer working on the project is why you troll so hard, and your effort to bring down the members of the project won't accomplish anything.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: oldlaptop on August 15, 2013, 09:36:07 pm
What bugs people is that the content of your drafts reveal you really don't know quite what you're writing about, and also don't care about writing *well* (otherwise your sentences wouldn't be a paragraph long, and wouldn't be full of gratuitous misspellings).


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 15, 2013, 09:56:51 pm
What bugs people is that the content of your drafts reveal you really don't know quite what you're writing about, and also don't care about writing *well* (otherwise your sentences wouldn't be a paragraph long, and wouldn't be full of gratuitous misspellings).

As I said before I'm going through multiple drafts and contacting various people about creating an "author" team, I didn't expect to be writing everything single-handedly and I definitely don't remember everything from SC2, I only remember what I had been said when I played it threw 4-5 times, but as I said that's why I'm getting a "team" together.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Rapajez on August 16, 2013, 01:51:06 am
To offer constructive critism, I'd say go back and play it again, so it's fresh in your mind. The new UQM HD project is a nice place to start, since they just dropped a new release. You can also check all your facts agains the Ultranomicon.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 16, 2013, 03:06:49 am
To offer constructive critism, I'd say go back and play it again, so it's fresh in your mind. The new UQM HD project is a nice place to start, since they just dropped a new release. You can also check all your facts agains the Ultranomicon.
I was thinkin the same thing, but I also have little time as I need to organize a writing team and finish another draft. I think though we will be able to work on the Baul soon though and perhaps update the mod so people at least have something new. We even got a voice actor for the Chmmr now.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Rapajez on August 16, 2013, 06:05:06 am
At least check your facts if you're going through all the effort of writing.

Who's the voiceover? Tell me it's Ben Stein!


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 16, 2013, 06:26:50 am
At least check your facts if you're going through all the effort of writing.
If you wanna join the writing team so you can read through everything make sure facts are checked as you have memorized every single line from SC2 then you're more than welcome. In fact a person like that would be good to have on the team and I've been looking for someone like that, I could catch mistakes sooner.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Kwayne on August 16, 2013, 09:04:09 am
Sadly some people just don't get it and cant help themselves from trying to insult or bring down other people and ruin the project. Both the current project leaders know well enough I have a more than an enthusiastic attitude about being involved in this project, I guess you never really created anything before because you don't really understand what a rough draft is, as seen here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rough+draft. No one in their right mind would think the very first test run is suppose to be the final thing, and I already changed the major events of the plot-line. Why? Because because any person who takes anything seriously takes the time to go through things called "drafts". If I didn't know any better I'd say your...event, with no longer working on the project is why you troll so hard, and your effort to bring down the members of the project won't accomplish anything.

Wow that's rich! By commenting on the UQM forum, how exactly am I trying to ruin your project, heh?

FYI I was drawing/animating the new races while developing their plot to the level of a rough draft you can see on both wikis. Incomplete, yes, but not nearly as sloppy as the abomination you claim is a "rough draft", which is at places nothing better than unintelligible gibberish. Now how that's supposed to be reviewed by anyone without the fear of developing a brain tumor? Nobody is interested in something that's "pumped out" into existence, and claiming it's a "rough draft" doesn't justify the obvious quality problems and the inglorious display of ignorance on the subject. Nobody would mind a few misspellings and a few misunderstandings of the original concepts, but your writing -- even in the eyes of an amateur, even in the eyes of someone who were never in P6014 -- is crap, which still would be forgivable would you have not boasted about it's qualities on a forum it doesn't belong to in it's current state.

Calling others trolls won't make your case any stronger. If you don't like negative comments of people posting their opinions as fans of the original SC2, there's the safe haven of the P6014 plot development forum for P6014 members. This forum is NOT it, so go take your insipid shit over there and stop annoying people here!


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 16, 2013, 05:09:48 pm
Keep typing all you want, I'll just work with my new voice-actor/writer on the project.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: dczanik on August 16, 2013, 07:06:46 pm
It's been getting rather ugly around here lately....
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png)
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics.
Even if you win, you're still retarded.   ;)


Who's the voiceover? Tell me it's Ben Stein!

Well, here's a "work in progress"/"proof of concept" clip:
Maloo Orture from the forums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaS6tUumb0U


Can we change the title from "Star Control 3" plot to something like "Project 6014 plot ideas: SPOILERS".  This is NOT Star Control 3.  That game already came out.



Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 16, 2013, 07:32:10 pm
Yeah I think the voice has a good tone, a sort of "all-mighty" but still robotic monotonous voice very well suited for the Chmmr. The only thing I don't like is that reverb, it's too organic and you can hear it too well, it's like you're standing in a cathedral.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: dczanik on August 16, 2013, 07:49:52 pm
Yeah I think the voice has a good tone, a sort of "all-mighty" but still robotic monotonous voice very well suited for the Chmmr. The only thing I don't like is that reverb, it's too organic and you can hear it too well, it's like you're standing in a cathedral.

Reverb existed in the original too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u1Ss0h4GbM

It's fine in my book.  Unless somebody makes something better, it stays.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 16, 2013, 07:52:01 pm
Yeah I think the voice has a good tone, a sort of "all-mighty" but still robotic monotonous voice very well suited for the Chmmr. The only thing I don't like is that reverb, it's too organic and you can hear it too well, it's like you're standing in a cathedral.

Reverb existed in the original too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u1Ss0h4GbM

It's fine in my book.  Unless somebody makes something better, it stays.

Well the original seems a little over-board, but it's not like it's a serious issue, Maloo did a good job and it seems a higher quality than the original.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 06:30:59 am
Im not fond of that story draft, it has so many errors in it. It does need work and I would change the precursor thing...

And a million galaxies to produce that much life? Please...

Milky Way has 200-400 billion stars in it and many more planets, the fact that even in reality it would have thousands of lifebearing planets or hundreds of civilizations present is not that far fetched. Many scientists think so nowadays. The building blocks that make (carbon based) life are abundant throughout the galaxy, if there are reasonable conditions life will form and spread, aggressively, and prevail. And life can exist in other forms too which Star Control has also explored, like silicon based or ammonia based... even gas creatures arent too far fetched.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: danzibr on August 19, 2013, 01:57:30 pm
I know for silicon based you're talking about Taalo and Chenjesu, but what about ammonia? Slylandro?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 19, 2013, 02:53:43 pm
Im not fond of that story draft, it has so many errors in it. It does need work and I would change the precursor thing...

And a million galaxies to produce that much life? Please...

Milky Way has 200-400 billion stars in it and many more planets, the fact that even in reality it would have thousands of lifebearing planets or hundreds of civilizations

I really have no idea why you wouldn't discuss it on the actual topic rather than randomly bring it back to here. And I hate to break it to you but haven't you ever wondered why after 3.8 billion years we haven't seen life spontaneously form again? It's because it's really  damn improbable for it to happen even once. We can have thousands of potentially habitable planets, definitely not thousands of life-bearing planets. The materials for life to form on Earth are even more abundant, but only the original base pairs of DNA spontaneously formed one time 3.8 billion years ago, and scientists have never produced life from scratch in a lab yet. With that in mind we scientifically have no concrete idea how life spontaneously forms, all we can say is it really doesn't happen that often, and having a 1/4,000,000,000 chance  at most and only on the worlds with a diverse enough materials and a good enough supply of energy definitely doesn't guarantee us "thousands of lifebearing planets".

The building blocks that make (carbon based) life are abundant throughout the galaxy, if there are reasonable conditions life will form and spread, aggressively, and prevail. And life can exist in other forms too which Star Control has also explored, like silicon based or ammonia based... even gas creatures arent too far fetched.

If you think star control explored a lot you should see Star Trek. Also I don't really see what qualifies you to determine that gas life "isn't too far fetched", I don't hear NASA or any biologist in existence searching for gas-like life in the galaxy or even on Earth, the most they hope for is Silicon based life.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 04:31:27 pm
By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting. And as to the precursor thing I dont like that they seeded most of the life in the galaxy or that they were even the first. They might have been among the first ones, and they might have seeded some of the planets, but all of them.... thats going a little too far. Especially with the arilou and orz. Id see arilous as one of the first species rather than being seeded by the precursors. And the orz, leave them alone, they dont have to have anything to do with the precursors, they works as they are; an alien entity from another dimension.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has, kohr ah destroyed at least 5000 civilizations as they have boasted. Ur-quan dominated thousands of species. So i guess the total number before kohr ah cleaning would be 10000-20000. Its a large number still(tough small in a galaxy of hundreds of billions of planets), but a million galaxies worth of life... no way.

As to real life, guesses are all we have at this point really. But "rare earth" hypothesis, im not buying into that. It assumes too many things from one point of view only and one example, our own planet.

http://www.space.com/19157-billions-earth-size-alien-planets-aas221.html

Thats a lot of potential right there.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 19, 2013, 05:11:45 pm
By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.

http://www.space.com/19157-billions-earth-size-alien-planets-aas221.html

Thats a lot of potential right there.

Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 05:16:33 pm
By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.

http://www.space.com/19157-billions-earth-size-alien-planets-aas221.html

Thats a lot of potential right there.

Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.

Well I guess we only have to agree to disagree then.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: dczanik on August 19, 2013, 05:26:08 pm
Even though real extra-terrestrial life may (or may not) be rare, we have to look at what exists in the Star Control universe. Life is pretty plentiful.



Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 05:38:59 pm
I think the mystery of the precursors should be kept, even for the fan game. We dont need to know so much about them, and I definately dont see them as seeders of all galactic life.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Death 999 on August 19, 2013, 05:52:40 pm
Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 19, 2013, 06:19:20 pm
By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.

http://www.space.com/19157-billions-earth-size-alien-planets-aas221.html

Thats a lot of potential right there.

Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.

Well I guess we only have to agree to disagree then.

There's nothing to agree to disagree on, it's just you going into denial about scientific probability. Sci-fi games are not reality, that's why they're more interesting.

Even though real extra-terrestrial life may (or may not) be rare, we have to look at what exists in the Star Control universe. Life is pretty plentiful.

Yep no one is saying life in SC2 isn't abundant.

I think the mystery of the precursors should be kept, even for the fan game. We dont need to know so much about them, and I definately dont see them as seeders of all galactic life.

They definitely had something to do with it, and why else would they construct the "Mother Ark"?

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.

Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Death 999 on August 19, 2013, 09:22:34 pm
Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.
Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

I'm stating that as long as starfaring races are making planetfall on world after world, there's going to be cross-contamination. Precursors clearly did this, and I'm sure they left their mark on millions of worlds if not billions. This is not unique to them, and there have been starfaring races in all eras of Star Control since the dawn of the Sentient Milieu, so I guess yes, the territorial extent of various forms of life would tend to grow over time as they were carried (intentionally or accidentally) between the stars.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 19, 2013, 11:33:41 pm
Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.
Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

I'm stating that as long as starfaring races are making planetfall on world after world, there's going to be cross-contamination. Precursors clearly did this, and I'm sure they left their mark on millions of worlds if not billions. This is not unique to them, and there have been starfaring races in all eras of Star Control since the dawn of the Sentient Milieu, so I guess yes, the territorial extent of various forms of life would tend to grow over time as they were carried (intentionally or accidentally) between the stars.

Hmm, well you should post that as a suggestion on the dev google group to see what people think. It wouldn't make sense exactly for the Syreen to have an Ur-Quan sized territory at the end of the game, but perhaps a time goes on, if you aren't involved in a lot of destruction, then maybe the price of ships and fuel can go down over time. Perhaps even race territories can be effected at any time. Perhaps the Chmmr territory starts to slowly shrink if they become broken for some reason.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 11:44:54 pm
By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.

http://www.space.com/19157-billions-earth-size-alien-planets-aas221.html

Thats a lot of potential right there.

Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.

Well I guess we only have to agree to disagree then.

There's nothing to agree to disagree on, it's just you going into denial about scientific probability. Sci-fi games are not reality, that's why they're more interesting.

Even though real extra-terrestrial life may (or may not) be rare, we have to look at what exists in the Star Control universe. Life is pretty plentiful.

Yep no one is saying life in SC2 isn't abundant.

I think the mystery of the precursors should be kept, even for the fan game. We dont need to know so much about them, and I definately dont see them as seeders of all galactic life.

They definitely had something to do with it, and why else would they construct the "Mother Ark"?

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.

Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

Not in denial, just a lot more optimistic about the chances of discovering living worlds, as many scientists are. The true exploration on humanitys part hasnt even begun yet, we dont know whats out there.

In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. It could have been some other elder race, Hayes theorized they were a leading edge of a colonization project. Precursors vanished over 200 000 years ago. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 19, 2013, 11:50:57 pm
In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. They might have build it but that doesnt prove they were seeding the whole galaxy. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.

Seeing as how the precursors could have built the Mycon, it's not too far of a stretch that something called the "Mother Ark" harbored a wide variety of living things. And why would such a device house so many living things? I would imagine to save them or deliver them.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 19, 2013, 11:58:18 pm
In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. They might have build it but that doesnt prove they were seeding the whole galaxy. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.

Seeing as how the precursors could have built the Mycon, it's not too far of a stretch that something called the "Mother Ark" harbored a wide variety of living things. And why would such a device house so many living things? I would imagine to save them or deliver them.

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 20, 2013, 12:10:25 am
Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 20, 2013, 12:23:04 am
Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything.

Star Control 3 had lots of things, it did say at one point that precursors build the mmrmnhrm, it also had notions that the precursors found evidence of other "precursors" on their time which had died and fought wars with other species on their time which they won, which I find much more likely than simply to say they were the first and seeded everyone else. The precursors in that game did tamper with some lifeforms, mycon are definately one as confirmed by Fred and Paul. I think it was suggested that eternal ones were more the ones that seeded and then reaped all life.

But SC3 also made some mistakes by answering too many questions on precursors part, we dont need to know everything.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 20, 2013, 12:31:06 am
Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything
Well why didn't the Faz make more to right off the Dynarri? And if the Dynarri would mind control the Mmrmhrm why wouldn't the Dynarri have also used them to destroy other species? And how could the Chenjesu trust the Mmrmnhrm so much as to merge their species together if they had not been around for a long time to become friendly with each other and learn enough biology about each other that they knew it would work?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 20, 2013, 12:40:26 am
Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything
Well why didn't the Faz make more to right off the Dynarri? And if the Dynarri would mind control the Mmrmhrm why wouldn't the Dynarri have also used them to destroy other species? And how could the Chenjesu trust the Mmrmnhrm so much as to merge their species together if they had not been around for a long time to become friendly with each other and learn enough biology about each other that they knew it would work?

Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark. The ark was made by someone, at some point of time. We dont know its exact age. It could have been faz, it could have been some other species. Take your pick, theres over ten thousand of them estimated in the galaxy of SC.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.

Orz are like that, they dont have to have anything to do with the precursors, they should be completely alien, from another dimension.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 20, 2013, 12:51:40 am
Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 20, 2013, 01:02:59 am
Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.

Or not, the Sentient Milieu died out 20 000 years ago. Theres plenty of time in there for some other species to become spacefaring, produce the mother ark and send it on its mission, whatever that mission originally was. I dont think this should be answered either in the game, another mystery for some other time.

****Minor Spoilers perhaps***

Ive read the basic plots for the 6014 in the wiki, theres lot there which I like and a lot which I feel could be explored more. Someone suggested time travel to the past, the time of the Milieu and episodic content which I think is an ok idea. Exploring the small region during the time of the dnyarri war could be a dramatic and intresting little side trip. I added some of my own humble ideas there about the physical appearance of the yuli and yuptar races and some about the drall, and couple of side quest ideas for that time.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 20, 2013, 01:53:39 am
Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.

Or not, the Sentient Milieu died out 20 000 years ago. Theres plenty of time in there for some other species to become spacefaring, produce the mother ark and send it on its mission, whatever that mission originally was. I dont think this should be answered either in the game, another mystery for some other time.

Ive read the basic plots for the 6014 in the wiki, theres lot there which I like and a lot which I feel could be explored more. Someone suggested time travel to the past, the time of the Milieu and episodic content which I think is an ok idea. Exploring the small region during the time of the dnyarri war could be a dramatic and intresting little side trip. I added some of my own humble ideas there about the physical appearance of the yuli and yuptar races and some about the drall, and couple of side quest ideas for that time.

Yeah but time travel would make everything more complicated along with it's inevitable paradoxes. The only real way to time travel would be to perfectly arrange all matter and energy in the universe to a previous position and phase, after which point because of the uncertainty and inherent randomness of matter, evens may not progress exactly the same way as before. I suppose the Mother Ark didn't have to be created by the Precursors, but so far no one has made any plans to explain where it actually came from so it should be fine.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Armass on August 20, 2013, 03:13:30 am
If it worked on Star Trek, it should work here too. Star Control after all doesnt take itself too seriously. Its just an scifi trope idea I think would be cool to explore.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: FakeMccoy on August 20, 2013, 03:39:45 am
If it worked on Star Trek, it should work here too. Star Control after all doesnt take itself too seriously. Its just an scifi trope idea I think would be cool to explore.

Well I can't exactly say it seems like there would be a 2nd UQM sequel after p6014, unless we start in a different galaxy or obviously force a conflict like TV shows do.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Dabir on August 20, 2013, 04:47:47 pm
I seem to recall time travel and other stupid bullshit being the worst part of Star Trek.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Death 999 on August 20, 2013, 05:06:22 pm
The movie of that name, or Star Trek in general?


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: Kwayne on August 20, 2013, 09:54:54 pm
I never disliked time travel episodes in Star Trek, in fact the best movie was IMO Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home a.k.a. "the one with the whales".

However I'm not so happy with P6014 or any continuation of SC2 tossing out the time travel card so eagerly just because of a cynical premonition that it's the last chance to do it anyway. My personal storyline has 2 or 3 episodes before a mere glance at time travel could even happen, and for more reason than because it's cheap firecrackers for starved out SC fanboys.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: CelticMinstrel on October 08, 2013, 06:30:28 pm
The Precursors can't really be the seeders of all galactic life, because all the galactic life we see in the game is drastically different. It's not like Star Trek with humanoids everywhere.

Yeah but time travel would make everything more complicated along with it's inevitable paradoxes. The only real way to time travel would be to perfectly arrange all matter and energy in the universe to a previous position and phase, after which point because of the uncertainty and inherent randomness of matter, evens may not progress exactly the same way as before. I suppose the Mother Ark didn't have to be created by the Precursors, but so far no one has made any plans to explain where it actually came from so it should be fine.
This is not how time travel works. If an action you take would create a paradox, you can't take that action, because a paradox is by definition something that cannot happen. In a single-timeline universe, you wouldn't be able to change the progression of events by going back in time.


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: dczanik on October 08, 2013, 06:43:12 pm
The Precursors can't really be the seeders of all galactic life, because all the galactic life we see in the game is drastically different. It's not like Star Trek with humanoids everywhere.

This is not how time travel works. If an action you take would create a paradox, you can't take that action, because a paradox is by definition something that cannot happen. In a single-timeline universe, you wouldn't be able to change the progression of events by going back in time.

The Precursors aren't going to be seeders of all galactic life.

Things like the  "grandfather paradox" could probably only occur if there multiple timelines.  I say this with no certainty because nobody has gone backwards in time (as far as I know).  I like to think that  it would be the equivalent of the universe dividing by 0, the only solution would be to make another big bang ;)


Title: Re: Star control 3 plot
Post by: CelticMinstrel on October 08, 2013, 10:27:53 pm
Things like the  "grandfather paradox" could probably only occur if there multiple timelines.  I say this with no certainty because nobody has gone backwards in time (as far as I know).  I like to think that  it would be the equivalent of the universe dividing by 0, the only solution would be to make another big bang ;)
Actually, someone did a simulation (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/?p=163#.UlRqkSRc-iY) that supports your first sentence. Though, it was with a very restricted set of parameters, so whether it extends to the real world is still open.

My first comment (about Precursors seeding the galaxy) was in response to the discussion about that a page or two back.