Title: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 23, 2017, 02:29:04 pm (https://image.ibb.co/jNJnt5/education.png)
We should investigate more about what to learn at different ages. I find it weird that kids don't start learning languages already in kindergarten, since we seem to be best at learning languages early in life. I also think we should have much more practical physics/chemistry/economy early, and rather start to learn mathematics from those disciplines. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on April 23, 2017, 07:49:41 pm You cannot do basic economy, basic physics, basic chamistry without the foundation mathematics lay.
And not all kids are able to learn a secondary language well. My threekids differ in their aptitude wildly... Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 23, 2017, 08:39:50 pm You cannot do basic economy, basic physics, basic chamistry without the foundation mathematics lay. I think you have it upside-down. Mathematics developed from measuring things in the real physical world (counting coins -> practical economics, counting days between cyclical phenomena, or measuring velocities/angles and so on -> practical physics). It is also much more easy for kids to understand non-abstract phenomena which they can relate to the real physical world. It took a long time to develop the concept of zero and negative numbers, since it didn't relate to anything in the physical world. More abstract mathematics came even later. And not all kids are able to learn a secondary language well. My threekids differ in their aptitude wildly... Sure, but lots of kids would be able to learn more languages if they were exposed to it as kids, and those kids that are a bit slow with learning languages can just be put into other groups where they focus more on learning fewer languages. I found a few multilingual kindergartens: http://www.infanterix.de/en/multilinguale-kindergarten/ (http://www.infanterix.de/en/multilinguale-kindergarten/) https://dayschool.ch/en/multilingual-kindergarten/ (https://dayschool.ch/en/multilingual-kindergarten/) But there are none here, so I am considering to maybe open one. Lots of parents would probably be interested in that, and they would probably be willing to pay more for such a kindergarten. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 25, 2017, 11:49:35 am Learning extra languages will become unneccessary in 10 years, because then we will have the realtime universal translators like they have in star trek (and like the one that is apparently used by the precursor vessl in Star Control 2).
So people wanting to speak to a person that doesn't speak their language will wear some kind of necklace that translates realtime between languages. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on April 25, 2017, 03:14:04 pm in 10 years... we will have the realtime universal translators like they have in star trek (and like the one that is apparently used by the precursor vessl in Star Control 2). How could this even be done in such a short span of time? Have you seen how horrible Google Translate's ability to translate text is? Proper machine translation is going to require a highly sophisticated A.I. that no one has developed yet. Without that, the best you can do is get a rough translation that sort of works well enough to understand each other, and that hardly makes properly learning a language obsolete. I have a much easier time understanding Japanese that I can read directly than I do understanding Google's translations of Japanese text. Not to mention, how are you going to implement something like this without both people wearing noise-cancelling headphones? Without those, you're just going to hear a bunch of noise. Or do you propose that we're all going to be walking around with noise-cancelling headphones and speaking through a microphone all day in the future? Machine translations will improve (though the fact that most machine translators are SaaSS will probably slow that down substantially), but making actually understanding the language of the person you're speaking to obsolete is a fantasy. There's nothing wrong with indulging in fantasies a bit, but you can't base a teaching curriculum for the real world on that. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 25, 2017, 04:26:22 pm Google translate is getting less and less horrible, it is perfectly usable for translating between all kinds of western european languages, and realtime translation is already a possibility.
What matters is that you convey the message that is supposed to be communicated, then you're already doing better than not speaking the language at all, because I never see myself speaking chinese fluently but instead of using english as the lingua franca I would speakk dutch and out would come chinese, leading to better understanding between chinese and dutch people rather than us both having to learn dutch/chinese/english. Noise cancelling headphones won't be really neccesary. You would wear an in ear headphone that translates what the other person is saying into your preferred language, and you would speak into a microphone which repeats your sentence in the language of your choice. With technology like lyrebird.ai you can even have it speak your actual voice. And this also makes it possible to do realtime translation of skype calls and youtube videos or tv programs. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on April 25, 2017, 05:03:33 pm Around here, multilingual kindergarten (or early childhood centres) are common.
(Officially, our kindergarten is not bilingual, but they do offer language courses for three languages. My kids are all bilingual (but closely related languages) (we live "abroad"), and even started to learn basic English there, which also isn't that remote fromt heir mother tongue. ) Even an AI will likely for quite some time not reach the level of intuitive language grasp a born speaker will have. But Google translate got much better in EN<->FR. Read up somewhere how they did it. It's a fascinating topic the programmers have yet to understand fully. Best is still immersion in the other languages for a few months. And those who can and did will always have an advantage job-wise over those who are limited to their mother tongue (and English). BTW: Math here is in the first 2 years basically learning to count and recognising the written numbers, drawing numbers, then going from simple text thingies (I have 1 apple, and you have three pears. How many pieces of fruit do we have together? *) to equations. So he is doing exactly as you're proposing anyway. But there is no "economics" involved, besides "I have four coins of value X, and want 3 apples for Y each. How much money will be left after I paid for the apples?".) So, math lesson here IS economics as you proposed. Also distances are done in math lessons. So, simple physics is already present too, it's just called math. BTW: My oldest son loves math. It's so logical compared to languages, and there is either right or wrong. Not like language tasks, where results are often evaluated very subjectively. I told him to wait until he solves different problems with multiple possible approaches to the solution. Then it won't be as unambiguous anymore, as the teacher will evaluate the solutions also by elegance, and not only by correctness. He was shocked. But he still loves math best. * (click to show/hide) For those interested, my languages in order of proficiency: DE/NL/EN/FR/C++/Pascal Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 25, 2017, 06:21:44 pm Learning extra languages will become unneccessary in 10 years, because then we will have the realtime universal translators like they have in star trek (and like the one that is apparently used by the precursor vessl in Star Control 2). So people wanting to speak to a person that doesn't speak their language will wear some kind of necklace that translates realtime between languages. I doubt it will ever become as good as knowing a language yourself. I am more concerned with optimum development of the neural network in kids during the first 3 years, and they are "wired" to learn languages, so they should be exposed to as much as they can "take". Limiting the language exposure of a kid only serves to limit growth in the neural networks of their brains. As I have pointed out earlier, the meaning of life might very well be intellectual growth in the neural network of the brain. Why learn anything if computers and/or other people can do it? Because learning has inherent value for a neural network. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on April 25, 2017, 06:30:26 pm Quote Google translate is getting less and less horrible, it is perfectly usable for translating between all kinds of western european languages, and realtime translation is already a possibility. I understand that, but it is no replacement for actually knowing the language. Not only that, it's a SaaSS engine controlled by Google, so any improvement made for it stays with it, taking advantage of it requires an Internet connection, and if Google ever stops offering the service for any reason, it's gone forever and we're pretty much back to square one, because libre translation software is still in its infancy. This isn't the type of thing you can base decisions about your future on. Quote You would wear an in ear headphone that translates what the other person is saying into your preferred language, and you would speak into a microphone which repeats your sentence in the language of your choice. What exactly are the chances of people carrying around microphones all day so they can talk to everyone in broken German or French or whatever, by connecting to the Internet and querying Google for a translation one sentence at a time (because it does have to be no more than one sentence at a time to account for different sentence orderings and such)? No, that's not going to ever be preferable. Automated translation will always be less preferable to both people just speaking the same language. I will concede that video calls and phone calls may incorporate automated translation software at some point (not in 10 years, though), but that would still not make being bilingual obsolete. Knowing the languages spoken by all the people you talk to regularly is always going to be useful. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 25, 2017, 06:36:32 pm So, math lesson here IS economics as you proposed. Also distances are done in math lessons. So, simple physics is already present too, it's just called math. Ok, but at that age it might be better to focus upon the economics/physics of it, rather than upon solving equations. Many students seem to think that bachelor math topics are easier than bachelor physics topics, because in the math topics they just use a formula they have memorized, while in physics topics they need to have a more in-depth understanding of what is going on in order to know which formula to apply where. It might actually be a problem today, that many students don't have a sufficiently good intuitive grasp of physics. I am thinking that doing practical physics/chemistry in early childhood, might increase that intuitive grasp later in life. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 25, 2017, 07:11:18 pm Learning extra languages will become unneccessary in 10 years, because then we will have the realtime universal translators like they have in star trek (and like the one that is apparently used by the precursor vessl in Star Control 2). So people wanting to speak to a person that doesn't speak their language will wear some kind of necklace that translates realtime between languages. I doubt it will ever become as good as knowing a language yourself. I am more concerned with optimum development of the neural network in kids during the first 3 years, and they are "wired" to learn languages, so they should be exposed to as much as they can "take". Limiting the language exposure of a kid only serves to limit growth in the neural networks of their brains. As I have pointed out earlier, the meaning of life might very well be intellectual growth in the neural network of the brain. Why learn anything if computers and/or other people can do it? Because learning has inherent value for a neural network. Sure, but will you learn every possible language there is to know on earth? No, but the universal translator device will allow you to communicate to everyone on earth. And that also generates an entire culture shift because then you can watch automatically translated video's in Chinese, Japanese, Russian without having to learn the language. This will shift culture towards a more globally fair system since I can read and view news from the entire world without it being culturally biased because I only speak western languages :). And a kid with a universal translator device will be able to study in whatever source language the study material is available, instead of just english, german or whatever. So that kid will be more informed. So I don't see it as a bad idea. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 25, 2017, 07:14:06 pm Quote Google translate is getting less and less horrible, it is perfectly usable for translating between all kinds of western european languages, and realtime translation is already a possibility. I understand that, but it is no replacement for actually knowing the language. Not only that, it's a SaaSS engine controlled by Google, so any improvement made for it stays with it, taking advantage of it requires an Internet connection, and if Google ever stops offering the service for any reason, it's gone forever and we're pretty much back to square one, because libre translation software is still in its infancy. This isn't the type of thing you can base decisions about your future on. Quote You would wear an in ear headphone that translates what the other person is saying into your preferred language, and you would speak into a microphone which repeats your sentence in the language of your choice. What exactly are the chances of people carrying around microphones all day so they can talk to everyone in broken German or French or whatever, by connecting to the Internet and querying Google for a translation one sentence at a time (because it does have to be no more than one sentence at a time to account for different sentence orderings and such)? No, that's not going to ever be preferable. Automated translation will always be less preferable to both people just speaking the same language. I will concede that video calls and phone calls may incorporate automated translation software at some point (not in 10 years, though), but that would still not make being bilingual obsolete. Knowing the languages spoken by all the people you talk to regularly is always going to be useful. And secondly about broken german. It's not a bad thing. Where I work the language we speak with clients is English (since most of my clients are in germany or the UK) and we also have a lot of expats working for us (since it's IT schooled personnel is hard to find in the Netherlands) so we also speak a lot of English at the work place, the common tongue and all communication is in English even. But some people want to stay in the Netherlands and then we don't mind it at all if they try to explain something in 'broken dutch' to us. Because that's the only way you will ever learn it. By speaking it 'broken' first and then moving on to actually learning it :). And we even mix dutch and english sometimes because dutch (and german) have some more subtleties in some aspects that are hard to express in english. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 25, 2017, 07:17:32 pm I understand that, but it is no replacement for actually knowing the language. Not only that, it's a SaaSS engine controlled by Google, so any improvement made for it stays with it, taking advantage of it requires an Internet connection, and if Google ever stops offering the service for any reason, it's gone forever and we're pretty much back to square one, because libre translation software is still in its infancy. This isn't the type of thing you can base decisions about your future on. Exactly. We can never trust that things that are available&free today, will stay available&free in the future. So, f the translator-engines get better and more necessary for people in the future, they might want to charge more for people to use it. Internet itself might also be less available in the future. If there is ever a world war in the future, Internet is probably going to be the main battleground, and that could limit the availability of Internet. Countries might want to cut themselves off from Internet, due to cyberwarfare. If you know things yourself, you can never lose it, unless you lose yourself. And that is a good reason to know things yourself. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 25, 2017, 07:24:56 pm I understand that, but it is no replacement for actually knowing the language. Not only that, it's a SaaSS engine controlled by Google, so any improvement made for it stays with it, taking advantage of it requires an Internet connection, and if Google ever stops offering the service for any reason, it's gone forever and we're pretty much back to square one, because libre translation software is still in its infancy. This isn't the type of thing you can base decisions about your future on. Exactly. We can never trust that things that are available&free today, will stay available&free in the future. So, f the translator-engines get better and more necessary for people in the future, they might want to charge more for people to use it. Internet itself might also be less available in the future. If there is ever a world war in the future, Internet is probably going to be the main battleground, and that could limit the availability of Internet. Countries might want to cut themselves off from Internet, due to cyberwarfare. If you know things yourself, you can never lose it, unless you lose yourself. And that is a good reason to know things yourself. Do your research before posting such assumptions. The reason why I came up with this whole universal translator idea is because I recently started experimenting with cmu sphinx, an open source library that seeks to accomplish/accomplishes the same thing as google/amazon service does. And given that I can quite easily use it myself as just an average programmer it shouldn't be too hard for the open source community to pick it up as well. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 25, 2017, 07:39:33 pm Do your research before posting such assumptions. The reason why I came up with this whole universal translator idea is because I recently started experimenting with cmu sphinx, an open source library that seeks to accomplish/accomplishes the same thing as google/amazon service does. And given that I can quite easily use it myself as just an average programmer it shouldn't be too hard for the open source community to pick it up as well. What if we developed a universal "translator" that could do much more than translating languages. It could give you the answer to math equations, calculate trajectories, and help you in any possible way imaginable. Your own neural network wouldn't need to develop at all then. You could just rely on the "machine" for everything. But by relying more on computers and tools, we often decrease development of ourselves. During the 80's and 90's computers weren't as user-friendly as today, so people had to put much more effort into learning how to use them. Then they also got a better intuitive grasp of how computers work. Today, computers/tablets/phones are so user-friendly, that people barely need to learn anything in order to use them. They might also then get a less good intuitive grasp of how computers work. A healthy neural network should have a desire to grow. Intellectual laziness is a sign of dysfunctionality. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on April 25, 2017, 09:41:29 pm What exactly are the chances of people carrying around microphones all day so they can talk to everyone in broken German or French or whatever, by connecting to the Internet and querying Google for a translation one sentence at a time (because it does have to be no more than one sentence at a time to account for different sentence orderings and such)? <cough>SmartPhones<cough>We already do. Not me personally, but about 99% of all my colleagues. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on April 26, 2017, 05:23:18 am Quote I work in IT and have recently seen the advances in that aspect, I can even reproduce some of the more advanced stuff at home. My points are about the physical aspects, not the programming aspects. Of course it's possible, in principle, to make an A.I. that can interpret and translate a language as well as a human can. I personally doubt this will happen in 10 years, but that's not the main point. The main point is that regardless of how perfect you make this, you still have these physical problems which cannot be solved. And the secondary point is that most the progress that has been made on machine translation has been on SaaSS translators, which means that they could be shut down, gone forever, at the whim of some company controlling it, and with it, all progress made on it is lost and has to be done all over again. It would be entirely foolish to depend on that. The only machine translators that you can reliably depend on are libre ones, and those are in their infancy. I don't even think the one I checked a couple years ago could translate languages other than Spanish, though I don't remember for sure. Quote <cough>SmartPhones<cough> Touche, but that still doesn't solve the convenience issue. Realistically, you and the person you're speaking to would both have to wear headphones, or else you both would have to talk very quietly directly into the microphone, so that the listener doesn't get a headache from trying to listen to one voice over the other (or suffer from ear damage from turning the volume up really loud to compensate). You also have to have roughly a 5-10 second delay, or even longer if your sentences get longer, and you would have to eat up your data plan as well. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 26, 2017, 08:09:23 am And no matter how good a translation is, it is still a translation. Listening to Italian music in Italian , is not the same as listening to a translated version of the song. Reading German poetry in German is not necessarily the same as reading a translation no matter how good the translation is. We get a richer experience by listening to music and reading poetry in its original language.
Languages are not all the same. They vary in phonemes and words. Eskimos are said to have 50 different words for dfferent types of snow. All of those words would translate into snow in english. Or you would need to use many more words to convey the meaning, and even then some information is probably lost. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 26, 2017, 05:59:26 pm And no matter how good a translation is, it is still a translation. Listening to Italian music in Italian , is not the same as listening to a translated version of the song. Reading German poetry in German is not necessarily the same as reading a translation no matter how good the translation is. We get a richer experience by listening to music and reading poetry in its original language. And thatś exactly why a universal translator is a good idea. So if you go to greenland you can speak to eskimo's instead of them having to revert to english to describe snow (because no way in hell are you going to learn eskimese just for your trip to greenland). You hear the original intonality with the different ways to describe snow and you learn as you go.Languages are not all the same. They vary in phonemes and words. Eskimos are said to have 50 different words for dfferent types of snow. All of those words would translate into snow in english. Or you would need to use many more words to convey the meaning, and even then some information is probably lost. The same is true with what we have here in the Netherlands a lot, is subtitles at English movies. We hear the english text spoken and we see the dutch text as a translation. That way we can grasp the original subtleties and innuendo that were put in but still have something to hang on in case of non-understanding. With german it's even more useful, because german and dutch people can understand eachother quite well while speaking their own language already, but we still revert to English in case of direct conversation. But with a universal translator we could hear the other person speak german and it would be translated to dutch, but we have also the original context in German so we can pick up on subtle words that only germans have, such as fingerspitzengefuhl and erbfeindschaft. Also, realize that language is not just language. Language is a reflection of culture. So if a lot of Chinese people have the ability to work in the UK because of their universal translators, the UK will start to pick up more chinese words and culture becuase of it. Furthermore, it will really make it possible for american news article and movie/series script writers to write it in much more eloquent and subtle english, becuase they don't have to take into account non-native speakers anymore. Right now a lot is being dumbed down because otherwise we wouldn't understand it. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 26, 2017, 06:50:23 pm Do your research before posting such assumptions. The reason why I came up with this whole universal translator idea is because I recently started experimenting with cmu sphinx, an open source library that seeks to accomplish/accomplishes the same thing as google/amazon service does. And given that I can quite easily use it myself as just an average programmer it shouldn't be too hard for the open source community to pick it up as well. What if we developed a universal "translator" that could do much more than translating languages. It could give you the answer to math equations, calculate trajectories, and help you in any possible way imaginable. Your own neural network wouldn't need to develop at all then. You could just rely on the "machine" for everything. But by relying more on computers and tools, we often decrease development of ourselves. During the 80's and 90's computers weren't as user-friendly as today, so people had to put much more effort into learning how to use them. Then they also got a better intuitive grasp of how computers work. Today, computers/tablets/phones are so user-friendly, that people barely need to learn anything in order to use them. They might also then get a less good intuitive grasp of how computers work. A healthy neural network should have a desire to grow. Intellectual laziness is a sign of dysfunctionality. it can grow in different aspects. The fact that I can now glue a couple of node libraries together and have an application running in the blink of an eye instead of me having to write it from the bottom up gives me more time to focus on other stuff. You have played SC2 I assume. Now imagine if you had to learn the languages from all these 24 races before you could understand them or make yourself understood. That's 24000 hours of learning. I think the kohr-ah will have visited by then :). Time that could've better been spent by decoding dataplates, researching weapon and shield tech, figuring out how to drop that damn slave shield and analysing star charts to see where the samatra is hiding (but if you prefer to spend all that time learning urquanian, be my guest). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Sargon on April 26, 2017, 08:21:49 pm I think lack of resources is a big issue. There are just not enough skilled men(women) hours(teachers) to teach that to millions of children.
Perhaps AI teachers could be a good solution. I think school is just the least worst solution to the basic problem that parents(or other people) don't have enough time to raise their children. I think if I had the time I would school my kids myself, I don't think school is a really good place for kids to spend so much time. It's just a solution for lack of better solutions. Edit: Also there is a big problem in modern society that gets worse and worse. There is a bell curve on how intelligence is distributed in the population. The people with lower IQ have a limited number of jobs they can do. The more technology and automation advance, the more there are groups of IQ that are left with no job they can fill. Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs2gPa5sD0) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on April 26, 2017, 09:14:21 pm Cool point Sargon about AI teachers. It is discussed here as well by some leaders of the AI scientific community (not sure if it was part 1 or 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZe-A2aDOgA But the gist of what they said was that an AI could personalize itself to be the best teacher that a kid could have. There will always be gaps between how a teacher's style of teaching is compatible with how a kid is most efficiënt at learning things. An AI could get rid of that inefficiency, personalizing itself to the student and constantly learning how to improve itself. And it can share all its knowledge about teaching with all the other AI's of the same kind in the world. And it won't suffer from burnouts or tiredness, just copy it on a device and let your kids get smart learning from an AI :). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on April 26, 2017, 09:31:46 pm Yes, individual attention is very important in education, and AI could potentially do that in a way it would be ridiculously expensive to do with humans… and the AI teacher would have domain expertise in every field.
Of course, by the point we can do that, we're essentially past the prediction horizon since we can no longer confidently predict that such an AI is not super-intelligent, which would throw all the tables over. But, 'dumb' but still moderately clever AI teaching assistants could still be fairly adaptible and useful. Without their being actually smarter than the students, I wouldn't want them to be the primary teacher. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Sargon on April 26, 2017, 10:49:39 pm You still need kids to socialize with other kids or to have emotional support from adults, this AI cannot provide you.
However, I think school is bad because it force you to bundle whom you socialize with and who you learn with in the same class. Because of lack of resources kids are forced to be in the same class with other kids they might not get along with. I didn't like school as a kid, I think kids could be really mean to each other, some kids are just mean from a very young age. Might be also because their parents are mean. And anyway, I don't think it's natural for most Humans, including kids, to like everyone. I mean, I think my issue as a kid is that I thought of everyone should like everyone. I don't think kids should be forced to be in the same class with kids they don't like. So separation of socializing time, choosing your friends, and studying would be more ideal than just classic school. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 26, 2017, 11:09:38 pm I didn't like school as a kid, I think kids could be really mean to each other, some kids are just mean from a very young age. Might be also because their parents are mean. And anyway, I don't think it's natural for most Humans, including kids, to like everyone. I completely agree with you. I hated secondary school, and wasn't overly happy with high school either. Kids were really cruel to each other, and everything felt like a "survival of the fittest", or rather "survival of the most popular". The funny thing is that my wife had a completely different experience. She loved secondary school and high school. But she grew up in a much smaller town(village) in a completely different country. I think kids in big cities might be more cruel to each other. But why doesn't parents in big cities make private schools together with their friends? Maybe the kids of your friends will get better along with your kids? And then you can hire people you like to be teachers, and make the curriculum yourselves. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 26, 2017, 11:18:55 pm Yes, individual attention is very important in education, and AI could potentially do that in a way it would be ridiculously expensive to do with humans… and the AI teacher would have domain expertise in every field. If we learned to do that, we could also send frozen human embryos into space, awake them near the destination, and make the AI teach them without human parents. Frozen human embryos might also be able to survive a much higher acceleration than full grown humans. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on April 27, 2017, 05:54:30 am Quote And thatś exactly why a universal translator is a good idea. Of course a universal translator would be a good thing. It would also be a great thing if people would stop fighting each other for resources. But being a good thing doesn't make either of these any more realistic. Quote However, I think school is bad because it force you to bundle whom you socialize with and who you learn with in the same class. Because of lack of resources kids are forced to be in the same class with other kids they might not get along with. I'm going to have to disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. Learning to form bonds, join social groups, and cooperate is probably the most important part of school. In the real world, you do not get a designated box of people who all share the same interests as you. You have a random sample of people in several groups, and you need to be a part of one of those groups to succeed, because we are social animals. Becoming a part of those groups might involve taking up new interests, changing the way you act, or otherwise doing something to conform. So in fact, being bundled with a random group of kids who have varying interests, some of whom you might not like, is a good thing. The problem comes when you lack social skills, and rather than coaching you, the teacher just assigns you to a group or otherwise forces you to interact with particular people. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on April 27, 2017, 07:10:24 am You also learn to get along while having issues.
Discussing it out.... Not taking every shit. My sons go to a rather small school, and my second isunable to say no to unreasonable demands of his "friends"... Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 29, 2017, 10:53:53 am This makes me think of the concept of "flow" in psychology.
(http://www.gamasutra.com/db_area/images/feature/166972/figure1.png) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)) Too much challenges might generate anxiety, while too few challenges might generate boredom. I agree that kids should be moderately exposed to social difficulties, in order to develop a thicker skin, but kids are extremely sensitive, and care must be taken not to overexpose them. Traumatizing kids is probably not a good idea. Exposing the skin to moderate amounts of sunlight gives it a darker shade, but overexposing it might give you skin cancer. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 04, 2017, 11:17:30 pm I also don't understand why children don't learn about what is going to happen to themselves when they get into puberty. Learning nothing about what is going to happen to yourself in puberty, before you get into puberty, sounds like throwing a kid into the ocean before you have taught it to swim.
Children that are 9-10 years old should learn EVERYTHING about what is going to happen to themselves in puberty, in order to survive it better. Lots of teenagers take suicide during puberty. Maybe because they were thrown into the hormonal mess of puberty without learning anything about what would happen to themselves when they were younger. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on May 05, 2017, 01:05:06 am Quote I also don't understand why children don't learn about what is going to happen to themselves when they get into puberty. ??? But... I did! Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on May 05, 2017, 03:37:37 am I was taught basically everything when I was 11. That was in time.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on May 05, 2017, 09:50:26 pm Oh, I knew a lot of what was to come, but....
Also, there are very many possible consequences, and nobody could prepare you for all. More importantly, give kids a place to go to. Councellor at school,... having a list of organisations where you can go for help without costs or your parents knowing about it. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 07, 2017, 12:07:38 pm More importantly, give kids a place to go to. Councellor at school,... having a list of organisations where you can go for help without costs or your parents knowing about it. Sure, but I think there is something wrong with our culture, if teenagers become shameful about what happens to their bodies during puberty. It is not like if they are guilty of what is happening to their bodies. And what we feel shameful about, is mostly a cultural phenomena I believe. People in China and Africa, might not feel shameful about the same things as in Europe and USA. I have made a few changes to the education diagram, but it is still under development: (https://image.ibb.co/h7jNWQ/education.png) I have put civics, politics and history of humanity late, not because they are difficult topics, but because it is super important that people get a deep understanding of these topics. If you learn about civics and history of humanity too early, I think you might not understand it deeply enough, and you might forget about it when you get older. And then people elect idiots like Donald Trump. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on May 07, 2017, 02:10:50 pm I don't think the pure hatred I had toward the changes I went through around the age of 12 was a "cultural phenomena" (by the way, that's "phenomenon"; "phenomena" is plural). Any worldview that assumes that society and culture (a.k.a. "nurture") is purely to blame for problems is simply incorrect. There are other issues at hand.
To be fair, a school counselor wouldn't have helped me all that much either, though suggesting I go to one would have been a better reaction to my disruptiveness than assuming (in retrospect, very strangely) that I needed special education on how to speak properly. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 07, 2017, 02:20:28 pm I don't think the pure hatred I had toward the changes I went through around the age of 12 was a "cultural phenomena" (by the way, that's "phenomenon"; "phenomena" is plural). Any worldview that assumes that society and culture (a.k.a. "nurture") is purely to blame for problems is simply incorrect. There are other issues at hand. Maybe, but even if there is a biological tendency for people to feel ashamed about what happens to their bodies during puberty, culture can either amplify or de-amplify that tendency. A culture that talks very scientifically about these things from kids are about 8 to about 11 years old, might de-amplify the biological tendency to feel ashamed. This made me also think about homosexuality. If homosexuals believe that homosexuality is wrong and that they should blame themselves for their homosexual desires, they might feel much more ashamed than if they regard it as something biological. In the past, lots of individuals felt ashamed when they were sick, because they often believed they got sick because they had sinned in some way. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on May 07, 2017, 03:22:20 pm even if there is a biological tendency for people to feel ashamed about what happens to their bodies during puberty I didn't say that, and I don't think that. I said that there are other issues at hand. On this specific issue, I think the "shame" you're talking about which most kids experience is embarrassment (temporary, I might add) about being different in how fast you develop, and that can swing either way. That's such a minor thing, I don't see any particular reason to be concerned about it and just giving them someone to talk to when they're having a bad day is perfectly sufficient. But you can't generalize these things. Different issues are different. Some issues are almost entirely caused by nurture. The difficulty homosexuals used to have is one of those. Some issues are going to stick around no matter how much you try to change culture to accommodate them. My issue (which I hasten to mention is not the same as what I described above) is one of them. Some issues are somewhere in between. An inability to walk is one of them. So each one has to be addressed separately. Quote In the past, I lots of individuals felt ashamed when they were sick, because they often believed they got sick because they had sinned in some way. I don't think someone who was suffering with Bubonic Plague was terribly concerned about what other people thought of them. And avoiding people who had Bubonic Plague was a good thing; it at least somewhat contained the spread of the disease. If middle age people made a conscious decision to pretend that people who had the Plague were a-okay to be around and carried on as normal with them, the death toll would have been much worse. Also, the idea that sickness was caused by sin was not to "shame" people. Sickness was just something that people didn't understand, so they came up with the idea of it being a punishment for sin. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 07, 2017, 04:17:51 pm But you can't generalize these things. Different issues are different. Sure, but most of the issues that emerge during puberty, has to do with changes in hormonal levels (probably even homosexuality). Learning a lot about how hormones change during puberty, and how these hormonal changes affect behavior, might be very helpful for people to understand what is happening to themselves during puberty. Even homosexuality should be included in this topic, so that people learn from an early age that homosexuality can be regarded as something biological. I don't think someone who was suffering with Bubonic Plague was terribly concerned about what other people thought of them. And avoiding people who had Bubonic Plague was a good thing; it at least somewhat contained the spread of the disease. If middle age people made a conscious decision to pretend that people who had the Plague were a-okay to be around and carried on as normal with them, the death toll would have been much worse. Okay, but what about burning women they thought were witches and responsible for the plagues? Did that also decrease the death toll? I was recently to the museum of torture devices in Prague. People were horrible to each other in the middle ages. Also, the idea that sickness was caused by sin was not to "shame" people. Sickness was just something that people didn't understand, so they came up with the idea of it being a punishment for sin. Lots of "sinful behavior" seems to have become less sinful as we learned more about the underlying sciences. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on May 07, 2017, 05:53:15 pm Quote Okay, but what about burning women they thought were witches and responsible for the plagues? Did that also decrease the death toll? No, and that's a non-sequitur. The point is that understanding and treating the disease is the proper response. Trying to pretend that it doesn't exist, or change society so be accepting of it, is not. You can't solve everything by changing culture. Quote Sure, but most of the issues that emerge during puberty, has to do with changes in hormonal levels (probably even homosexuality). Learning a lot about how hormones change during puberty, and how these hormonal changes affect behavior, might be very helpful for people to understand what is happening to themselves during puberty. To what extent? I think that the sex ed that I got in the fifth grade was sufficient. It took a couple weeks to my recollection. For most normal people, they don't need to learn about how hormones work or what exactly their timeline of changes is, and they can't know anyway since everyone is a little different. All they need to know is: "Over the next few years or so, you are going to go through exciting changes. These are the kinds of changes you can expect: [insert changes here]" Of course, that didn't apply to me, but that's because the changes themselves were devastating. That's specific to a very small percentage of the population that happens to include me. The best that can be done for kids like us is to have someone available to talk to, preferably anonymously, and hope they discover themselves. As for homosexuality, the only serious problem homosexuals face is intolerance, so tolerance is all that has to be taught. That can even be done at a very young age: "Some kids have two dads or two moms instead of a mom and a dad, and that's okay." Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 07, 2017, 06:25:07 pm Of course, that didn't apply to me, but that's because the changes themselves were devastating. That's specific to a very small percentage of the population that happens to include me. The best that can be done for kids like us is to have someone available to talk to, preferably anonymously, and hope they discover themselves. I think all kids should learn about the most common problems that can emerge during puberty, such as for women: menstrual pains, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or endometriosis. And of course about sexually transmittable disease. If everybody learns about such things, those that have such afflictions are more likely to seek help. But it is also important to learn about psychological changes. About how people usually become much more aware of their body images during puberty. Lots of girls develop unhealthy ideas about their body images during puberty (probably even earlier today). They should learn to have more acceptance of their bodies, and not to strive for something sick and unrealistic. I am also worried about the "like" button on facebook, and about teenagers commenting images on facebook. Seems like lots of teenagers develop psychological issues now, because their images don't get enough "likes" on facebook, or because other teenagers write cruel comments to their images. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 07, 2017, 09:08:52 pm I have worked more with my education diagram. Quite satisfied now. Maybe a few more changes, if I get more feedback.
(https://image.ibb.co/j15nGQ/education.png) In order for this to work, I need to make an integrated "kindergarten - primary school - secondary school - high school". It's probably going to be lots of problems with getting such an education system legal here. So maybe I need to move to a different country, where they don't have such strict rules to follow a "backwards" educational system.... Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Julie.chan on May 08, 2017, 05:34:44 am Quote I think all kids should learn about the most common problems that can emerge during puberty, such as for women: menstrual pains, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or endometriosis. And of course about sexually transmittable disease. If everybody learns about such things, those that have such afflictions are more likely to seek help. Maybe the school you went to is just really bad, but my school, despite being extremely prudish about it, did teach us all this stuff. Quote But it is also important to learn about psychological changes. About how people usually become much more aware of their body images during puberty. Have you ever heard of the self-fulfilling prophecy? No, it is wrong to tell kids what they are going to think. It is only right to tell them what is going to happen. Again, my school's ridiculously limited sex ed did this. Quote They should learn to have more acceptance of their bodies, and not to strive for something sick and unrealistic. Eating disorders don't develop because people are stupid. They're much more complicated than that. You can't fight them by teaching "acceptance". Besides, too much acceptance is a bad thing. Some level of unsatisfaction with yourself is a good thing, because it drives you to improve. I, for example, am unsatisfied with my level of Japanese knowledge, and that's the only thing driving my desire to learn more Japanese. So if you successfully teach kids to accept weights that are caused by unhealthy lifestyles (in particular, eating too much carbs and sugar), then they will continue those bad lifestyles, rather than trying to (as they should) reach for the delicious steak or cheese-covered broccoli or stir-fry, instead of the soda or candy or donuts. (Note: schools don't teach correct nutrition information, so kids aren't going to learn this properly in school, but that's beside the point.) Quote I am also worried about the "like" button on facebook, and about teenagers commenting images on facebook. Seems like lots of teenagers develop psychological issues now, because their images don't get enough "likes" on facebook, or because other teenagers write cruel comments to their images. Facebook is just in general a bad place to socialize and is run by an evil company, but the "like" button isn't a problem. Everyone wants approval regardless of where it is. The "like" button on Facebook serves essentially the same function as a nod or brief voice of agreement or pat on the back something to that effect in real life. You can't blame the network because people don't approve of each other's posts in equal proportion, especially considering they don't do that in real life either. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 08, 2017, 08:12:07 am Facebook is just in general a bad place to socialize and is run by an evil company, but the "like" button isn't a problem. Everyone wants approval regardless of where it is. The "like" button on Facebook serves essentially the same function as a nod or brief voice of agreement or pat on the back something to that effect in real life. You can't blame the network because people don't approve of each other's posts in equal proportion, especially considering they don't do that in real life either. Sure, but people tend to become much more brave on the Internet. There aren't so much social barriers here. In real life people are much more restrained because of social barriers. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 10, 2017, 07:14:58 pm I have now made a new page for this on http://www.archania.org (http://www.archania.org)
PDF-version at: http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.pdf (http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.pdf) HTML-version at: http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.html (http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 12, 2017, 06:22:33 pm I have made 2 new graphs,
One for the topic called evolutionary history: (https://image.ibb.co/jQMq5k/evolutionary_history.png) And one for the topic called history of humanity: (https://image.ibb.co/nBTRd5/history_of_humanity.png) I like how much information I can get into these small graphs. I also know that some of the dates are not 100% accurate. I focused a bit more on the chronological order, than upon the dates. But it should be quite accurate. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 15, 2017, 12:02:49 pm What do you guys this about this idea, for how to educate young children. I think it is very important that they get to choose a bit themselves, and aren't forced all the time.
(https://image.ibb.co/mHNckk/education_rooms.png) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on May 15, 2017, 12:47:38 pm Sounds like Montessori (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education)....
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 15, 2017, 02:27:35 pm Sounds like Montessori (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education).... Always somebody else have thought of my smart ideas before me. :) But lots of studies on that educational system that I can use to argue that this is better. Since they are so similar, maybe I should call my educational system: "A modern Montessori inspired educational program" EDIT: Now I have added lots of references to my education article (2 of them to studies on Montessori education) And I ordered this book: (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cm2tcYCgL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Education-Inside-Out-Confessions-Montessori/dp/1604271310/ (https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Education-Inside-Out-Confessions-Montessori/dp/1604271310/) I am thinking also, that the chemistry room and the physics rooms, could be filled with toys like from this site https://www.toysforscience.com/ (https://www.toysforscience.com/). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 24, 2017, 11:30:15 am Anybody have experience with Sid the Science Kid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_the_Science_Kid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_the_Science_Kid)). Looks like a nice TV-show for kids to learn science.
Or Bill Nye the Science Guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye_the_Science_Guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye_the_Science_Guy))? Also, anybody have experience with Real Science 4 Kids (https://www.homesciencetools.com/science-curriculum-kits/real-science-4-kids (https://www.homesciencetools.com/science-curriculum-kits/real-science-4-kids))? Anyhow, I have put it resources for educating kids together on a page now: http://www.archania.org/resources_for_educating_kids.pdf (http://www.archania.org/resources_for_educating_kids.pdf) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on May 27, 2017, 02:40:20 am I saw a bit of Bill Nye but by the time he was on, I was over the target age range. I remember learning about reflected angles from 3-2-1 Contact, and a lot about whales and stuff from The Voyage of the Mimi (featuring Ben Affleck as an 11-year-old or thereabouts)
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 27, 2017, 11:15:06 am I saw a bit of Bill Nye but by the time he was on, I was over the target age range. I remember learning about reflected angles from 3-2-1 Contact, and a lot about whales and stuff from The Voyage of the Mimi (featuring Ben Affleck as an 11-year-old or thereabouts) Interesting, but I have issues finding places to download (or buy) those TV shows. :-\ Also. Kids of today are not exactly starved of entertainment, with Internet, Netflix, and so on. With so much entertainment to choose from, it is somewhat unlikely that they are going to choose scientific educational entertainment. I recently had a discussion with a somewhat clever 9 year old, who didn't understand why he should focus upon scientific educational entertainment, when the "stupid" entertainment was much more fun. It wouldn't be difficult to give a kid a Linux computer without Internet, where you install only scientific educational entertainment. Then I am sure the kid would find it entertaining, because there isn't available any other "stupid" forms of entertainment. But even if you did that, the kid would probably socialize with other kids, that have access to Internet and other "stupid" forms of entertainment. So, in order to give your kid access to only scientific educational entertainment, you would need to limit also what the friends of your kid are watching. We really need to think about what our kids should be exposed to in our entire community. I seriously doubt that "flooding" our kids with all sorts of entertainment from the Internet, is the best form of entertainment we as a community can provide to our kids. We should think about entertainment for children as food. You wouldn't want to feed to your kid junk food. Nor should you want to feed your kid "stupid" entertainment. Ideally, you want healthy food for your kid, and scientific educational entertainment. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 01, 2017, 08:01:59 pm I made this illustration to put more weight on my point.
(https://image.ibb.co/mmsd3F/healthymindandbody.png) http://www.archania.org/resources_for_educating_kids.html (http://www.archania.org/resources_for_educating_kids.html) I think I am going to add a link to this webpage on that page, because of course I consider Star Control 2 to be a healthy type of entertainment. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 05, 2017, 02:00:32 pm I found this online article related to this: https://www.gitbook.com/book/maciejolpinski/decentralised-attention-economies-for-the-web-3-0/details (https://www.gitbook.com/book/maciejolpinski/decentralised-attention-economies-for-the-web-3-0/details)
Here is an illustration from the article: (https://maciejolpinski.gitbooks.io/decentralised-attention-economies-for-the-web-3-0/content/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-01%20at%2010.57.09.png) Here is a quote from the article: Quote For the 99,99% of our time on Earth humans lived in the information scarce environments and our brains evolved to react. Humans evolved in the conditions of scarcity of carbohydrates and fats in our natural environments. Today we’re able to manufacture sugars & fats in large quantities so these ingredients are no longer scarce. But our natural instincts push us towards these even though, these might be unhealthy for us in large doses. Twentieth century era of supermarkets and processed foods combined with our cravings for carbohydrates resulted in obesity epidemics in the developed world. We're seeing the same process unfolding with regard to information. people will mostly click information that is ‘bad’ for them. Clickbait, spammy ads, content containing false claims, content that confirms their biases, prejudices etc. Humans naturally respond faster to danger and negative messages as we’re wired to avoid danger. I also found this article: http://firstmonday.org/article/view/519/440 (http://firstmonday.org/article/view/519/440) And I ordered two books: (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510INFtg7IL.jpg) (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594206643/) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51paAAdiqPL._SX337_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385352018/) This also makes me think of the hypnotization field projection ribs on the Syreen Penetrator: (http://3yygnpths4h2fy4k52n9sqs1c23.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Star-Control-Syreen-Penetrator.png) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 05, 2017, 03:45:39 pm That's kind of a scary thought, isn't it?
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 05, 2017, 07:17:13 pm That's kind of a scary thought, isn't it? Doesn't look very promising for our future, especially after your countrymen voted for Donald Trump, which indicates that this might be a bigger problem than I had realized earlier. The laws and socioeconomic systems of countries seem to change way too slowly to be able to deal with this problem early enough. Maybe we should expect presidents like Donald Trump in all our countries in the future.... (https://image.ibb.co/mqK0iF/attention.png) We need to decrease the availability of fun, but noneducational entertainment. But I doubt this is possible in the current socioeconomic system. We probably need a completely new socioeconomic system, and such a system is probably not going to emerge before the current socioeconomic system has completely collapsed, which probably isn't going to happen in the near future. Rather, we are likely to see a world population that slowly becomes more and more ignorant..... The American obesity epidemic didn't happen over night. Unfortunately, ignorance is much more difficult to measure than obesity. The American population might have become more and more ignorant during the last 30 years without anyone noticing, until now, with the election of Donald Trump. An attention economy should go hand in hand with narcissism. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ksiakNf-Fbk/U0Qng37Uw7I/AAAAAAAAX0Y/tkM5oppwluA/s1600/obesity+prevalence.PNG) Updated article I have written about this: http://archania.org/the_emerging_ignorance_epidemic.html (http://archania.org/the_emerging_ignorance_epidemic.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 08, 2017, 01:44:47 pm On the other hand, if Trump doesn't literally destroy us (it does seem fairly likely we'll survive), then perhaps he'll manage to discredit incompetence itself. It's really hard to see the pendulum just keeping on swinging this direction.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 08, 2017, 02:26:32 pm On the other hand, if Trump doesn't literally destroy us (it does seem fairly likely we'll survive), then perhaps he'll manage to discredit incompetence itself. It's really hard to see the pendulum just keeping on swinging this direction. Even if Trump manages to temporarily discredit his form of incompetence, people are not necessarily going to start getting less ignorant, especially not over night. Intelligent people are probably already starting to get more aware of how Trump could get elected, and you might start getting better at making automatic deception detection algorithms, like I wrote about before (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=6656.0 (http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=6656.0)). But I don't think we will see less sensational news, and less noneducational entertainment, in the near foreseeable future. Because they are commodities of a multi-trillion dollar industry, which is not going to decrease the availability willingly. So... yeah.. you might get more friendly and socially acceptable presidents for sure, but I fear that highly educated serious presidents (like Angela Merkel) are a dying breed. The ignorant people of today mostly want "fun candidates", not intelligent serious ones like Angela Merkel. Internet is prompting a culture that expects everything to be "fun", even presidents. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 10, 2017, 02:31:02 pm Here is a diagram I just made, to show why both Internet and traditional education is bad for children.
(https://image.ibb.co/mtXjVv/how_different_environments_influence_children.png) I have added the diagram on to this page http://archania.org/the_emerging_ignorance_epidemic.html (http://archania.org/the_emerging_ignorance_epidemic.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 11, 2017, 06:41:45 pm I am reading the book by Judy Dempsey about Montessori education. Here is a quote from the book:
(https://image.ibb.co/gfwYQv/Montessori_story.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 12, 2017, 03:52:08 am That sort of thing isn't unique to Montessori schooled children
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 12, 2017, 09:47:46 am That sort of thing isn't unique to Montessori schooled children Maybe not, but it is certainly something that might be expected from the collaborative nature of Montessori education. In particular, since they are divided into mixed age groups (0-3 years, 3-6 years ,6-9 years, 9-12, etc), each child gets the experience of being both the pupil during the beginning of a phase and the experience of being a guide for younger children towards the end of a phase. It is towards the end of a phase I think they develop themselves to become more considerate. Just like older siblings often are more considerate and responsible. (https://image.ibb.co/k58F7a/20170611_160935.jpg) If I disagree with anything about the Montessori education, it must be the curriculum. After all, she lived 100 years ago, and things have changed somewhat since then. For example, I doubt that they teach kids to use Linux, which I think is a good idea. I also don't think they teach kids 4 languages from they are 0-3 years old, even though they do have an emphasis on oral language skills then. It is clearly possible for children to learn 4 languages, since there are ethnic groups today where everybody is quadrilingual. EDIT: I am rewriting my entire education plan, in order to Montessori's mixed age groups (0-3 years, 3-6 years ,6-9 years, 9-12, etc) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 13, 2017, 09:52:45 am Something like this maybe:
Age 0 to 3 - The Language Phase
Age 3 to 6 - The Practical Phase
Age 6 to 9 - The Basics Phase
Age 9 to 12 - The Exotics Phase
Age 12 to 15 - The Popularity Phase
Age 15 to 18 - The Abstract Phase
Age 18 to 21 - The Reflective Phase
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 13, 2017, 08:56:51 pm I think that's a very awkward way to line things up. Especially delaying music and art until 12? Yikes.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 13, 2017, 10:03:15 pm I think that's a very awkward way to line things up. Especially delaying music and art until 12? Yikes. I think most parents send their kids to musicians at an early age, more for their own sake, than because the children are interested in it themselves. I have a friend who is a multi talented musician. He was "forced" by his parents (that are also musicians) to play the piano when he was very young, but claims that he didn't learn a lot, and didn't appreciate it much. It was later, during puberty (approximately when he was 12 years old), that he became interested in playing the guitar himself. That is when he claims to have learned most of what he knows today. I also think most people feel a deep connection to the music they used to listen to during puberty. Whatever I liked to listen to before puberty I cannot even remember. Regarding art you might be more correct. I think several young children are interested in drawing/painting. I will move drawing/painting to the 3-6 practical phase. This is what I have written in the introduction to the "Popularity Phase - 12 to 15 years" Quote At this age, most people get into puberty, as the amount of sexual hormones increase. This can be a very difficult time for many teenagers, and they often become much more interested in their social environment, than in education. Therefore, instead of wasting time trying to teach them things they aren't interested in, they should mostly be allowed to do what they like, such as dancing and playing music. It is however also a period when lots of teenagers are harassed, or feel socially embarrassed because they are different. They should therefore have a course about the benefits of diversity, where they learn to appreciate differences. At this age, many parents also feel that their children won't listen to them anymore. It is therefore also an appropriate time for them to have a course about the benefits of humility. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 14, 2017, 12:01:50 am I don't think that effect is reliably existent, let alone strong enough to base educational theory on.
I mean, you're working with theory, spinning out idea after idea… how much practical work have you done actually teaching children? How many of the premises have you validated? It seems like you're being almost ancient-Greek about this, and I think you know enough Bayes to know that's not a great thing. Making elaborate wildly-different plans is not great for experimentation, because when things go wrong you only get hints as to which parts caused the problems. Like, are you seriously heading back to Africa to be a teacher? If so, what sorts of preparation will actually be helpful when you're there? I think this curriculum layout where the entire theme shifts and suddenly the amount of math or art one is expected to do shifts radically… I just have a hard time seeing it work at a practical level. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 14, 2017, 09:21:38 am I mean, you're working with theory, spinning out idea after idea… how much practical work have you done actually teaching children? You are completely right about this. My wife has similar concerns, and she actually has experience with teaching children. I was thinking to maybe sign up for work at a Montessori school near where I live now, to get more experience with actually teaching children. But even then, I would never be able to pull something like this off by myself. I would need to collaborate with people that are much more experienced than me with teaching in a Montessori way. For some of the topics in the abstract phase, I would also need to collaborate with people that have more knowledge than me in those fields. Making elaborate wildly-different plans is not great for experimentation, because when things go wrong you only get hints as to which parts caused the problems. So, you are not a huge fan of string theory? Well... this is not exactly an experiment in physics or chemistry, where the experiment either is a success or a failure. I might argue that the traditional educational scheme is a complete failure based upon how ignorant most people are today, while other people might argue that it works well. For sure, lots of things are likely to be problematic with this education scheme. But as long as we are dynamic, and change things we see don't work, it might quickly evolve to become more functional. One of the problems with the traditional/conservative approach, is that they often are reluctant to change, even when evidence is presented to them. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on June 14, 2017, 01:36:48 pm Yes! Get that experience. Start with the beginning first.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 17, 2017, 03:05:14 pm Yes! Get that experience. Start with the beginning first. For me to become a successful Montessori teacher, of course I need lots of experience. I would also obtain more insight from such experience. But we live in a world today, where we also can learn from what others have done and published. Relying on scientific publications can in many ways be better than relying on personal experiences, particularly since we are prone to get biased perspectives from our own experiences. However, by relying only on scientific publications, one might lose touch with the ground. A mixture of obtaining personal experiences, reading scientific publications, and using deductive reasoning, is probably the way to go. Anyhow, I have updated the education page now, according to the age groups. http://archania.org/a_student-centered_education_program.html (http://archania.org/a_student-centered_education_program.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 24, 2017, 02:12:02 pm I found a course on coursera.org about "Critical Thinking for the Information Age"
Quote About this course: Most professions these days require more than general intelligence. They require in addition the ability to collect, analyze and think about data. Personal life is enriched when these same skills are applied to problems in everyday life involving judgment and choice. This course presents basic concepts from statistics, probability, scientific methodology, cognitive psychology and cost-benefit theory and shows how they can be applied to everything from picking one product over another to critiquing media accounts of scientific research. Concepts are defined briefly and breezily and then applied to many examples drawn from business, the media and everyday life. What kinds of things will you learn? Why it’s usually a mistake to interview people for a job. Why it’s highly unlikely that, if your first meal in a new restaurant is excellent, you will find the next meal to be as good. Why economists regularly walk out of movies and leave restaurant food uneaten. Why getting your picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated usually means your next season is going to be a disappointment. Why you might not have a disease even though you’ve tested positive for it. Why you’re never going to know how coffee affects you unless you conduct an experiment in which you flip a coin to determine whether you will have coffee on a given day. Why it might be a mistake to use an office in a building you own as opposed to having your office in someone else’s building. Why you should never keep a stock that’s going down in hopes that it will go back up and prevent you from losing any of your initial investment. Why it is that a great deal of health information presented in the media is misinformation. https://www.coursera.org/learn/mindware (https://www.coursera.org/learn/mindware) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on June 26, 2017, 11:44:36 am I think these are better titles for the age groups:
(https://image.ibb.co/nm9CYQ/agegroups.png) I think I can use the theory of flow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology))), to argue that students should learn at their own speed, rather than forcing all students to progress through the curriculum at the same speed. Now I have also added a section about flow: (https://image.ibb.co/myxd7k/flow.png) http://archania.org/a_student-centered_education_program.html (http://archania.org/a_student-centered_education_program.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on July 30, 2017, 10:40:32 am (https://image.ibb.co/dU3bAQ/outsourcing_education.jpg)
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on July 30, 2017, 05:54:11 pm I'm not sure what use it would be for people to really learn the medieval physics. They had all sorts of weird laws like the speed was the logarithm of the force - which are so easily falsifiable that a brief glance at them disprove them. They didn't know how to science yet, and their results were rubbish.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on July 30, 2017, 06:16:08 pm I'm not sure what use it would be for people to really learn the medieval physics. They had all sorts of weird laws like the speed was the logarithm of the force - which are so easily falsifiable that a brief glance at them disprove them. They didn't know how to science yet, and their results were rubbish. Ok. But if a certain outdated interpretation of physics is more intuitive to a human brain, it makes sense to spend some time on disproving it, since it is likely to be a common source of cognitive biases. Quote The reign of Aristotelian physics, the earliest known speculative theory of physics, lasted almost two millennia. After the work of many pioneers such as Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Galileo, Descartes and Newton, it became generally accepted that Aristotelian physics was neither correct nor viable.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_physics#Life_and_death_of_Aristotelian_physics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_physics#Life_and_death_of_Aristotelian_physics) I am thinking that since it lasted for 2000 years, it is worth spending some time on disproving it. In particular, I am thinking that kids probably should perform something like Galileo's Leaning Tower of Pisa experiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment)). (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8c/f3/10/8cf31097fc498896a1639b9a5139e21f--earth-science-science-projects.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on August 03, 2017, 02:40:53 pm It took so long to disprove, because nobody had the freedom to actually do any experiments.
The masses were not educated and did not even know these "medieval physics". From there, you could not expect anyone to become a physicist to prove or disprove anything. And most knowledge was heralded by the church, and ocne it reached a certain age, it became "untouchable". Just look at the medicine teched in northern Italy at the end of the middle ages.... The still believed that the blood was made in the heart and pumped from there to the organs, who dissolved the blood to gain the energy needed. The also knew how the lungs provided the blood with oxygen, and that without a functioning lung, your body would asphyxate. They also knew that blood loss is a severy, deadly issue. How are points 1 and 3 reconcileable? If one is true, then blood loss is a cost of energy, but the blood is made new with every heartbeat anyway, so not an issue as long as the organs are provided with energy soon again.Yet they knew it proved fatal anyway. But the "doctors" and "professors" ignored simple experiments like measuring the volume of blood inside a body (of pigs, chickens,... , or in some cases of executed Humans) and the calculation of how much blood is needed. If the heart is making the blood with every beat, why does the blood flow stop while the heart continues to beat a few times more? They knew the measured data, and hand-waived it away as being part of the miracle of life and the power of god and... Nah. It's something for later, when you teach the kids that believing is fine, but that so far data could explain everything better than "the power of god" could explain anything. This way you can put historical teachings into a context. They need the context more than modern theories do. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 03, 2017, 04:47:54 pm Nah. It's something for later, when you teach the kids that believing is fine, but that so far data could explain everything better than "the power of god" could explain anything. This way you can put historical teachings into a context. They need the context more than modern theories do. I kinda agree with you, and there are way too many medieval theories to dismiss for young kids. It would probably just make them more confused. However, I do think experiments are important to learn, and kids usually think experiments are more interesting than theory. So, the Galileo's Leaning Tower of Pisa experiment might be interesting for kids, even if we shouldn't necessarily delve too deeply into medieval physics. I am currently on vacation together with my sister's kids, and I have tried to show them "Bill Nye The Science Guy", and "Sid the Science kid". I am much more impressed with Bill Nye The Science guy, even if it is meant for somewhat older kids. They are doing lots of nice experiments in Bill Nye The Science Guy, which I think would be highly suitable for kids. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on August 03, 2017, 06:03:12 pm I think the way to deal with Folk Physics would be to extract the parts of it that are true and focus on those. Like, things have a tendency to stop. But, this is not innate. It happens from friction, where the motion of the thing gets spread out across the things it runs into.
You can cover the details of how and how much and all that later. But literal medieval physics was more wrong than folk physics. It has no place outside of intellectual history classes. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on August 03, 2017, 06:56:22 pm Oh, we did those experiments in physics course.
Also to answer questions what is heavier when falling on your head: a kg of lead, or a kg of densely packed feathers.... (meant to mean: what will be more painful). Our school had tuubes, and one was vacuum packed with a feather... The feather did indeed fall as fast through the tube, as an irob ball in a similar tube... Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 03, 2017, 11:29:01 pm Also to answer questions what is heavier when falling on your head: a kg of lead, or a kg of densely packed feathers.... (meant to mean: what will be more painful). They will hit your head with the same speed, but 1 kg of lead will be more painful/harmful, because 1 kg of densely packed feathers is much more elastic. Not everything of equal mass hitting you at the same speed is equally painful/harmful. This is also related to the elasticity of the material hitting your head. Also. It doesn't need to be equal mass to accelerate at the same speed in a vacuum tube. A feather of 1 gram will accelerate just as fast as 1 kg of lead (9.81 m/s2). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 03, 2017, 11:50:55 pm I found this book with science experiments for kids:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rtOvOSPAL._SX429_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Kids-Science-Experiments-Gravity-Challenge/dp/1580625576/ (https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Kids-Science-Experiments-Gravity-Challenge/dp/1580625576/) Kids should probably be doing a lot more experiments in school, and build stuff. Here are my sister's kids building a tree house: (https://image.ibb.co/e34YCF/20170803_231532_COLLAGE.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on August 04, 2017, 10:14:56 pm Also to answer questions what is heavier when falling on your head: a kg of lead, or a kg of densely packed feathers.... (meant to mean: what will be more painful). They will hit your head with the same speed, but 1 kg of lead will be more painful/harmful, because 1 kg of densely packed feathers is much more elastic. Not everything of equal mass hitting you at the same speed is equally painful/harmful. This is also related to the elasticity of the material hitting your head. Also. It doesn't need to be equal mass to accelerate at the same speed in a vacuum tube. A feather of 1 gram will accelerate just as fast as 1 kg of lead (9.81 m/s2). From the roof of school? Well, yeah, air resistance will make a difference already. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 07, 2017, 11:42:19 pm I have read more than half of this book now:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51T-TZ2IaSL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Curiosity-Scientific-Revolution-Perspective/dp/0521170524/ (https://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Curiosity-Scientific-Revolution-Perspective/dp/0521170524/) And this is what I have gotten so far from this book: (https://image.ibb.co/fAzbMa/scientific_revolution.jpg) So it seems like both geniuses and an intellectually curious culture is needed for scientific progress. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on August 08, 2017, 09:03:14 pm Hence we European were so easily able to overtake the Chinese in science, despite their initial headstart...
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 08, 2017, 11:14:05 pm Hence we European were so easily able to overtake the Chinese in science, despite their initial headstart... Yep. I have written this now: Quote Intellectual curiosity seems to have been essential for the scientific revolution[1]. The telescope was invented in Europe in the beginning of the 17th century, but it quickly spread to China, India and the Ottoman empire. However, none of those civilizations were as eager as the Europeans to use the telescope to study the solar system and look at the stars, or to modify it into a microscope to study the minuscule world. Therefore, not much happened in China, India and the Ottoman empire, while it set in motion the scientific revolution in Europe. And added it to the page about education: http://www.archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html (http://www.archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html) I just ordered this book now: (http://media.wiley.com/product_data/coverImage300/6X/04705919/047059196X.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196X/ (https://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196X/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 10, 2017, 02:10:49 pm I have read more than half of this book now: (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51T-TZ2IaSL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Curiosity-Scientific-Revolution-Perspective/dp/0521170524/ (https://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Curiosity-Scientific-Revolution-Perspective/dp/0521170524/) And this is what I have gotten so far from this book: (https://image.ibb.co/fAzbMa/scientific_revolution.jpg) So it seems like both geniuses and an intellectually curious culture is needed for scientific progress. I don't agree at all. For example history has proven that the conservative nature of the catholic church provoked many scientists to prove them otherwise. an example that was often used is christopher columbus proving that the earth is not flat to the catholic church, but this is a fable. but another example could be that how isaac newton was treated in his early years by conservatists had driven him to gain a drive for proving them wrong. Conservatism and progressivism keep eachother in balance. That, and someone needs to be conservative to people practicing pseudo-science (ie the numerous 'cancer cures' on facebook giving people false hope). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 10, 2017, 05:50:50 pm I don't agree at all. For example history has proven that the conservative nature of the catholic church provoked many scientists to prove them otherwise. Well, it sounds a bit exaggerated to say that history has proven this. It sounds a bit more honest to say that many scientists might have been partially motivated by a desire to prove the catholic church wrong. Personally I think most scientific geniuses are mainly motivated by a desire to understand the universe better. Not so much by a desire to prove other people wrong. But of course, sometimes we are indeed motivated by a desire to prove other people wrong. Conservatism and progressivism keep eachother in balance. That, and someone needs to be conservative to people practicing pseudo-science (ie the numerous 'cancer cures' on facebook giving people false hope). Well, well. Being skeptical and conservative are not exactly the same thing. People should be skeptical to all information, which includes traditional ways of thinking. But skeptical people should also be open to arguments proving them wrong. Conservative, dogmatic, closed-minded people are not open to arguments proving them wrong, and they are usually not skeptical to traditional ways of thinking. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 10, 2017, 11:08:26 pm I don't agree at all. For example history has proven that the conservative nature of the catholic church provoked many scientists to prove them otherwise. Well, it sounds a bit exaggerated to say that history has proven this. It sounds a bit more honest to say that many scientists might have been partially motivated by a desire to prove the catholic church wrong. Personally I think most scientific geniuses are mainly motivated by a desire to understand the universe better. Not so much by a desire to prove other people wrong. But of course, sometimes we are indeed motivated by a desire to prove other people wrong. Conservatism and progressivism keep eachother in balance. That, and someone needs to be conservative to people practicing pseudo-science (ie the numerous 'cancer cures' on facebook giving people false hope). Well, well. Being skeptical and conservative are not exactly the same thing. People should be skeptical to all information, which includes traditional ways of thinking. But skeptical people should also be open to arguments proving them wrong. Conservative, dogmatic, closed-minded people are not open to arguments proving them wrong, and they are usually not skeptical to traditional ways of thinking. You could be right about that, perhaps I exaggerated. Then again, I also believe that you can learn just as much from the cleaning lady or a child as from the best genius in the world. Often years long experience in combination with the fantastic pattern recognition abilities of the human mind , or just an incredible gut feeling leads people making incredible discoveries that help others. Sadly the powers that be in the scientific world are often not impressed with people like that, unless said person comes with a lot of data to support these claims. But that might be my dutchness talking. We think we can tell the queen or president that he/she is wrong despite their status. I might be a bit hypocritical here since I work in the field of data, enabling companies to become data driven and outperform competitors by employing analytics and smart algorithms. Still, you can't really dwell on data alone, you sometimes need to think outside of the box to see what else is there. For example disapproving of Chinese progress in the past might lead you to overlook it entirely, while it certainly has a lot to teach us :). They say that being genius is just one floor below insanity. I guess the lower floors prevent the upwards floors from going insane. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 11, 2017, 07:16:56 pm For example disapproving of Chinese progress in the past might lead you to overlook it entirely, while it certainly has a lot to teach us :). Indeed it has a lot to teach us, and I have actually written this in the end of the article: Quote 11.2 Learning from the history humanity History should be taught quite late, since it is important for people to understand it properly. Older teenagers also seem to be more interested in it. Rather than learning national histories, they should learn about the history of humanity. In this topic, they should analyze what made different civilizations prosper and fail, to see commonalities, so that they can understand better how to make this society prosper. They should also try to find commonalities between periods when our understanding was advancing quickly, such as Greece in 5th century BC, the Tang dynasty in China, the Islamic Golden Age, the Italian Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution during the 17th century, the Age of Enlightenment in the 18th century, and the Civil Rights Movement in the 20th century. http://www.archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html (http://www.archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on August 12, 2017, 04:48:48 am Then again, I also believe that you can learn just as much from the cleaning lady or a child as from the best genius in the world. As much? Just by talking with them? I could understand 'a great deal', but 'as much' is a really strong claim. If the cleaning lady and the greatest genius in the world set out to teach you things, and you were capable of following along, I am pretty sure the janitor would run out first. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 26, 2017, 07:51:09 pm I have started on a much more detailed digital archive of educational material:
For pupils to 3-6 years old. https://www.amazon.com/Sid-Science-Kid-Season-1/dp/B00R876SQS https://www.amazon.com/Great-Science-Experiments-Neil-Ardley/dp/1465428267/ https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Kids-Science-Experiments-Gravity-Challenge/dp/1580625576/ https://www.amazon.com/101-Coolest-Simple-Science-Experiments/dp/1624141331/ https://www.toysforscience.com/ For pupils to 6-9 years old. https://www.amazon.com/Bill-Nye-Science-Guy-Volume1/dp/B00MHD29KC https://www.rocknlearn.com/collections/specials/products/rl763 https://www.rocknlearn.com/collections/specials/products/rl721 https://www.rocknlearn.com/collections/specials/products/rl726 https://www.homesciencetools.com/real-science-4-kids-pre-level-1-biology-set https://www.homesciencetools.com/real-science-4-kids-pre-level-1-chemistry-set https://www.homesciencetools.com/real-science-4-kids-pre-level-1-physics-set For pupils to 9-12 years old. http://store.steampowered.com/app/306760/Obduction/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/454250/The_Eyes_of_Ara/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/512790/Quern__Undying_Thoughts/ http://sc2.sourceforge.net/ Evolutionary history: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/major-transitions-in-evolution.html http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/a-new-history-of-life.html https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B007O5W36I/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KE5JOS/ http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-origin-and-evolution-of-earth-from-the-big-bang-to-the-future-of-human-existence.html Linear algebra: https://khanacademy.org/math/linear-algebra Software engineeering: https://www.coursera.org/learn/julia-programming https://www.coursera.org/specializations/python https://www.coursera.org/specializations/java-programming http://www.thegreatcourses.com.au/courses/how-to-program-computer-science-concepts-and-python-exercises.html Cosmology: http://www.pbs.org/show/pbs-space-time/ https://www.amazon.com/Through-Wormhole-Morgan-Freeman/dp/B0047HXMKM https://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-Spacetime-Neil-deGrasse-Tyson/dp/B00IWULQQ2/ https://www.amazon.com/How-Universe-Works-Mike-Rowe/dp/B004QSQMG8/ https://www.amazon.com/Into-Universe-Stephen-Hawking-Steven/dp/B0047HXMMU/ https://www.homesciencetools.com/science-curriculum-kits/real-science-4-kids/elementary-astronomy Organic chemistry: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/foundations-of-organic-chemistry.html https://khanacademy.org/science/organic-chemistry For pupils to 12-15 years old. Benefits of Diversity: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-hidden-factor-why-thinking-differently-is-your-greatest-asset.html Benefits Humility: https://www.coursera.org/learn/intellectual-humility-science https://www.coursera.org/learn/intellectual-humility-practice https://www.coursera.org/learn/intellectual-humility-theory https://www.coursera.org/learn/mindware Music: https://www.coursera.org/learn/edinburgh-music-theory For pupils to 15-18 years old. Calculus: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/change-and-motion-calculus-made-clear-2nd-edition.html http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/understanding-calculus-problems-solutions-and-tips.html http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/understanding-multivariable-calculus-problems-solutions-and-tips.html Quantum physics: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/quantum-mechanics-the-physics-of-the-microscopic-world.html Relativity: https://khanacademy.org/science/physics/special-relativity https://www.coursera.org/learn/einstein-relativity https://www.coursera.org/learn/general-relativity Entropy: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/thermodynamics-four-laws-that-move-the-universe.html http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-science-of-information-from-language-to-black-holes.html Machine learning: https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning https://www.coursera.org/learn/bayesian For pupils to 18-21 years old. World history: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/a-brief-history-of-the-world.html https://khanacademy.org/humanities/world-history http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/birth-of-the-modern-mind-the-intellectual-history-of-the-17th-and-18th-centuries.html Democracy: https://www.coursera.org/learn/international-taxation https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Prize-Season-1/dp/B00EE2W00I http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-surveillance-state-big-data-freedom-and-you.html http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/privacy-property-and-free-speech-law-and-the-constitution.html https://www.coursera.org/learn/common-law Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 27, 2017, 08:37:03 am Then again, I also believe that you can learn just as much from the cleaning lady or a child as from the best genius in the world. As much? Just by talking with them? I could understand 'a great deal', but 'as much' is a really strong claim. If the cleaning lady and the greatest genius in the world set out to teach you things, and you were capable of following along, I am pretty sure the janitor would run out first. Quote "I am deeply moved by the offer from our State of Israel [to serve as President], and at once saddened and ashamed that I cannot accept it. All my life I have dealt with objective matters, hence I lack both the natural aptitude and the experience to deal properly with people and to exercise official functions. For these reasons alone I should be unsuited to fulfill the duties of that high office, even if advancing age was not making increasing inroads on my strength. I am the more distressed over these circumstances because my relationship to the Jewish people has become my strongest human bond, ever since I became fully aware of our precarious situation among the nations of the world." As the biggest scientific genius of the previous century wrote as a reply to him being offered the presidency of Israel. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 27, 2017, 10:04:12 pm (https://image.ibb.co/cbakmk/education.jpg)
And here is the digital media: http://www.archania.org/educational_resources.html (http://www.archania.org/educational_resources.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 28, 2017, 02:50:32 pm Your learning material has nothing in mandarin or spanish. Why?
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 29, 2017, 12:46:07 am Your learning material has nothing in mandarin or spanish. Why? I had someone helping me to translate some of my documents into Portuguese. But now I have modified them a lot, so I need to translate it again. It is probably best to translate my documents when I am more or less finished. And the learning material. Well... I guess there could be some similar programs in Mandarin and Spanish, or it could (or it is already) be translated to does languages. Anyhow, I would need help from people to translate. If you want to help me translate for free into Dutch, you are welcome. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 29, 2017, 03:26:45 am Your learning material has nothing in mandarin or spanish. Why? I had someone helping me to translate some of my documents into Portuguese. But now I have modified them a lot, so I need to translate it again. It is probably best to translate my documents when I am more or less finished. And the learning material. Well... I guess there could be some similar programs in Mandarin and Spanish, or it could (or it is already) be translated to does languages. Anyhow, I would need help from people to translate. If you want to help me translate for free into Dutch, you are welcome. I am willing to translate, I'm just wondering why your education focuses on only the western cultures of the world. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 29, 2017, 11:08:00 pm I am willing to translate, I'm just wondering why your education focuses on only the western cultures of the world. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of insight into what learning materials they have in China, since I have never lived in China. They probably have some there, which could be included, but I don't know about it. :( Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on August 31, 2017, 02:50:57 pm I am willing to translate, I'm just wondering why your education focuses on only the western cultures of the world. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of insight into what learning materials they have in China, since I have never lived in China. They probably have some there, which could be included, but I don't know about it. :( If you want to add more games to the list I recommend Life is Strange, Everything, Minecraft, Civilization. Civilization teaches you about history while being fun to play, Minecraft encourages creativity and building, Everything is philosophical game based on eastern philosophy, and Life is Strange is an emotional rollercoaster that teaches kids to embrace nihilism. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on August 31, 2017, 08:21:55 pm Me neither, but I think itś bad to focus on one culture if you want to teach kids stuff. Then again, maybe your goal is to teach kids in your world view instead of an open mind to all world views that exist in the world. Because your material doesn't include any religion or sex education for example ;). Or different government types than democracy. Information about religions and other types of government is (or should be) included in topic called "Learning from history" at the last page. I forgot about the sex education. They actually have a course about it at coursera.org: https://www.coursera.org/learn/reproductive-health (https://www.coursera.org/learn/reproductive-health) If you want to add more games to the list I recommend Life is Strange, Everything, Minecraft, Civilization. Civilization teaches you about history while being fun to play, Minecraft encourages creativity and building, Everything is philosophical game based on eastern philosophy, and Life is Strange is an emotional rollercoaster that teaches kids to embrace nihilism. I have played through life is strange, and it is a good game, although I am not sure about how much people can learn from it. Life is strange: Before the Storm, just came out btw (http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/554620/ (http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/554620/)). I might include it and "Dreamfall Chapters" somewhere, since they are good non-violent games. Civilization 5 is actually already included on the last page. I need to investigate more about the educational benefits of minecraft and other games, such as the one called Factorio (http://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/)). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 02, 2017, 02:02:08 pm I think before the storm is not so much to learn about as the original life is strange series.
Life is strange has atleast taught me the following; - even if you have the best intentions in the world, you can't save everyone (various people dying no matter what) - you can't dwell on choices, you have to make them and stick with them - if you are yourself you will gain respect from eveyone, even if you're not that popular - daguerreotypes ;) Anyway, about learning from history: That sounds arrogant. We aren't the new humans V2.0, better than all the humans from the past that made mistakes. And us enlightened scientifically studied people aren't better than people who only finished a basic education and go to church on sunday. Thatś the mistake that we keep on making as humanity, that we're better than others living on different latitudes/longitudes behind imaginary borders that powerful people thought, and that people who believe in a fictional entity have a lot in common with people who believe in p < 0.05. Focus on what we have in common, and especially with people of opposing beliefs; focus on the good parts. As you may note I am arrogant as well. I seem to think that world peace is possible if everyone achieves the same level of open mindedness as I have. So don't take this all too seriously. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 02, 2017, 04:53:53 pm aand about nihilism. it destroyed me for a while, thinking that whatever best intentions I might have life was pointless.
But then I saw this video, and it kinda touched me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14 So perhaps the kids thee days might learn something from it. Speaking of learing.. what do you think about Elon Musk's initiative to make a human/electronic interface? Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 03, 2017, 11:29:33 am Anyway, about learning from history: That sounds arrogant. We aren't the new humans V2.0, better than all the humans from the past that made mistakes. Genetically we are very similar to all humans that have lived before, but the "pool of collective knowledge" is bigger now than anytime in the past. But it doesn't necessarily matter so much if people don't care to accumulate information from the large pool of knowledge we have available today. It is of course possible to be equally ignorant today as in the past. Anyhow. I have been searching for historical documentaries, and I have found a lot. So apparently people can learn a lot of human history just from watching documentaries. (https://image.ibb.co/nGa94F/learning_from_history.jpg) http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_18to21.html (http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_18to21.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 03, 2017, 09:58:49 pm I found a super interesting TV show from 1978 called "Connections", which I am watching right now....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNjI2YzgxOWQtMmNjMS00NmNjLThmYWUtMjA1NmZkNDliMzdkL2ltYWdlL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjk1NTk3NDM@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,707,1000_AL_.jpg) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078588/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078588/) https://friday87central.wordpress.com/category/pbs/connections (https://friday87central.wordpress.com/category/pbs/connections)/ Since this show is hard to purchase from anywhere today, here is the pirate-link: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4990510/James_Burke_-_Connections__(BBC_-_Series_1__2_and_3) (https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4990510/James_Burke_-_Connections__(BBC_-_Series_1__2_and_3)) Amazing how many interesting series I stumbled upon when searching for historical documentaries... Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 05, 2017, 06:03:53 pm Another update:
(https://image.ibb.co/fTUAgv/pythagoras.jpg) http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html (http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on September 05, 2017, 06:52:12 pm They'd understand what it says, but would they understand why it works any better, though? There could be a more useful diagram for that.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 05, 2017, 08:20:19 pm They'd understand what it says, but would they understand why it works any better, though? There could be a more useful diagram for that. Maybe this one? (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a9/a2/a9/a9a2a95a82d0cfa4646efff556c23f81--pythagorean-theorem-homeschool-math.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 06, 2017, 03:30:53 pm They'd understand what it says, but would they understand why it works any better, though? There could be a more useful diagram for that. Maybe this one? (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a9/a2/a9/a9a2a95a82d0cfa4646efff556c23f81--pythagorean-theorem-homeschool-math.jpg) Speaking about teaching kids the pythagoran theorem. Ask them just after learning it how a carpenter would calculate the length of a crossbeam between 2 beams that are perpendicular to eachother. They will all immediately bring out their pythagoran theorem and calculate it. But they never realize that a carpenter just puts a length of beam that is about the same size to the crossbeam, and then just marks where he needs to cut it. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 06, 2017, 03:40:38 pm Also, about connections: Interesting that you brought it up. I am a huge fan of random facts that are somehow connected :).
It is also the reason why we are the apex predator of the earth. Because we have a tendency to see and want to see connections in everything around us. Neil degrasse tyson explains it perfectly in one of this cosmos shows; the people from the early ages see crops fail a few times when a comet is in the sky, and then they start to think that the comet is an evil god that makes their crops fail. So to me it explains that the human need to make and explain connections is the reason for both relgion and science to be created. I think that unites every human on the planet, regardless of what they believe in. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 06, 2017, 05:48:23 pm About learning from the past through collective knowledge: I think the problem lies with motivations of people what they do with the lessons learned.
Some people want to enlighten humanity as a whole, some want to achieve world peace, some want to gain power and some want to eliminate opposition or those who hurt them in the past. And they all use the lessons learned from the past to achieve their own goals. An example of how this works out is Israel using the lesson learned from the past to oppose the arab world, and the way the arab world uses history to oppos the western world and Israel. They are using history as an indoctrination tool to make their people hate the other people. Instead of focusing on what they have in common they focus on differences and instead of focussing on world peace they focus on eliminating the other side. That is kind of a sad reality that makes me lose faith in us having learned anything from history. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 06, 2017, 07:33:15 pm That is kind of a sad reality that makes me lose faith in us having learned anything from history. Many countries focus a lot on their own interpretation of their national history, which is likely to make people more nationalistic. Some degree of nationalism is actually necessary to keep a country together, and that could be one of the reasons why many countries focus a lot upon their own interpretation of their national history. Focusing upon world history should have the opposite effect. I have focused a little bit more on western European history, than Chinese, Indian, and Arab history. This is mostly because the scientific revolution & the industrial revolution happened in Europe, not in China, India, or the Ottoman Empire. If the scientific and industrial revolution had happened in China, I would have focused a lot more on Chinese history. But unfortunately this is not the case. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 06, 2017, 11:06:27 pm I am also thinking that we could use something like this to help them learn the relationship between the diameter and the circumference of a circle (pi):
(https://image.ibb.co/dHGZrv/beads_to_circles.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on September 07, 2017, 10:52:50 am Those beads need to be very small, otherwise the gaps between beads will influence the result very much.
Very tricky thing to do and get close to the correct ratio. But indeed a nice idea.But by the time they need to learn about Pi, they do not need tis physical excercise to learn about it. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 07, 2017, 01:36:29 pm Those beads need to be very small, otherwise the gaps between beads will influence the result very much. They can also just make the rings bigger and bigger, and see that it tends to get closer to the correct ratio the bigger the ring is. (https://image.ibb.co/eNdjda/estimate_pi.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 07, 2017, 08:22:36 pm I am also thinking that we could use something like this to help them learn the relationship between the diameter and the circumference of a circle (pi): (https://image.ibb.co/dHGZrv/beads_to_circles.jpg) Pi is really bad to teach kids about the circumference of a circle. Because going around a circle 360 degrees you get a radius of 2pi :). So it is better to use Tau, which is exactly 2pi. youtuber Vihart explains it in a fun way (I love her too :P) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7vhMMXagQ and here's a professor explaining how its harder to teach kids when they use Pi instead of Tau :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ofi_L6eAo Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on September 07, 2017, 08:33:26 pm That is a great demonstration - the best I've ever seen. Like, wow.
EDIT: you changed it! What? I'm talking about the one where you have a square with side a+b and you can either pack it with squares a and b and four abc triangles, or put a c square diagonally across it and fill the corners with abc triangles. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Krulle on September 07, 2017, 08:58:59 pm Indeed, a good demonstration.... Just warn the kids, that you only count the end beads of the diametre half, to count from middle line to middle line.....
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 07, 2017, 11:34:39 pm I also think Tau (2 Pi) might be a more useful concept to teach kids Pi. However, with the rings, you will get less accurate estimates of Tau than of Pi if you only fill half of the diameter across the ring with beads (if the diameter is 13 beads, the radius will be 6.5 beads, and you can't have half a bead). You would get equally accurate estimates if you filled the entire diameter, and divided it by 2. That would be a bit more cumbersome for the kids, but it could be beneficial later, like when working with the unit circle. Maybe we could use the formula: Circumference/Diameter=Tau/2, instead of the formula Circumference/Radius=Tau. Then I wouldn't need to change anything on the rings.
Anyhow, I am a bit confused why kids can't learn both Pi and Tau, just like they should be able to learn both what the diameter and the radius of a circle is. This website gives a lot of arguments why we should keep Pi (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/ (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/)). Not everything becomes easier with Tau. I believe we should keep Pi, but start to use Tau much more when it is appropriate. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 08, 2017, 11:14:01 am I also think Tau (2 Pi) might be a more useful concept to teach kids Pi. However, with the rings, you will get less accurate estimates of Tau than of Pi if you only fill half of the diameter across the ring with beads (if the diameter is 13 beads, the radius will be 6.5 beads, and you can't have half a bead). You would get equally accurate estimates if you filled the entire diameter, and divided it by 2. That would be a bit more cumbersome for the kids, but it could be beneficial later, like when working with the unit circle. Maybe we could use the formula: Circumference/Diameter=Tau/2, instead of the formula Circumference/Radius=Tau. Then I wouldn't need to change anything on the rings. Anyhow, I am a bit confused why kids can't learn both Pi and Tau, just like they should be able to learn both what the diameter and the radius of a circle is. This website gives a lot of arguments why we should keep Pi (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/ (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/)). Not everything becomes easier with Tau. I believe we should keep Pi, but start to use Tau much more when it is appropriate. I think tau should be taught first, then pi :). By the way I absolutely agree with Death999, what a wonderful method to learn this :) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 08, 2017, 02:12:35 pm Do you think all kids all over the world should learn to use the metric system and SI units or can they decide on their own?
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 08, 2017, 08:54:37 pm Do you think all kids all over the world should learn to use the metric system and SI units or can they decide on their own? I don't see any reason why we shouldn't use the same system. It wouldn't necessarily need to be the metric system and SI units, but since that is the most commonly used by scientists, I don't see any reason to change it. Maybe we all of us should start to use the Kelvin scale for temperature, since it starts at the absolute null point. However, how fast it increases could maybe be a bit more objective. Maybe it should increase with Planck units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_temperature (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_temperature)). (https://image.ibb.co/mXkNzF/celcius_to_planck.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 09, 2017, 02:20:36 am I'm saying this because the imperial system causes deaths every year in the USA because of dosage miscalculations.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on September 09, 2017, 03:09:51 am Indeed, a good demonstration.... Just warn the kids, that you only count the end beads of the diametre half, to count from middle line to middle line..... He changed the image on me. I edited the post you originally replied to to explain what I was talking about. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 09, 2017, 10:41:59 am That is a great demonstration - the best I've ever seen. Like, wow. EDIT: you changed it! What? I'm talking about the one where you have a square with side a+b and you can either pack it with squares a and b and four abc triangles, or put a c square diagonally across it and fill the corners with abc triangles. I have included both illustrations for the Pythagorean theorem (http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html (http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html)) . I also like the other one where you need to count how many mini squares there are in each square, since it involves more work. The more kids need to work, the better they will remember it. I also like this set for teaching kids basic arithmetic operations: (https://www.dhresource.com/0x0/f2/albu/g5/M01/2E/07/rBVaI1kqPxWAEIJjAAGdY0Q10-Y515.jpg) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 09, 2017, 06:38:37 pm Anybody know about any documentaries about cognitive biases? I was searching for it, but all I found was this episode from BBC Horizon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ha34Vu1zZo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ha34Vu1zZo)).
I am a bit surprised, since I found so many historical documentaries. I would assume that people would find documentaries about cognitive biases just as interesting as documentaries about history. Anyhow. Here is the latest version for the educational resources: http://www.archania.org/educational_resources.html (http://www.archania.org/educational_resources.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 12, 2017, 01:49:23 pm To add a game to the list;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnGNPew6GLw This guy uses universe sandbox 2 to explain just about everything in astronomy. Which is kinda cool. :) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on September 12, 2017, 04:52:12 pm To add a game to the list; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnGNPew6GLw This guy uses universe sandbox 2 to explain just about everything in astronomy. Which is kinda cool. :) Thank you! I have now added universe sandbox 2, and another one called "Kerbal Space Program": http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_9to12.html (http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_9to12.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 12, 2017, 07:02:08 pm To add a game to the list; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnGNPew6GLw This guy uses universe sandbox 2 to explain just about everything in astronomy. Which is kinda cool. :) Thank you! I have now added universe sandbox 2, and another one called "Kerbal Space Program": http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_9to12.html (http://www.archania.org/educational_resources_for_age_9to12.html) Just remember that if your kids ever make Jeb scared then you have failed in your education ;). Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 15, 2017, 12:47:12 pm How do you explain words like egregious to kids, which can mean 2 opposite things?
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on September 15, 2017, 04:08:03 pm It's an intensifier. From Latin for 'very very'. It was often enough used for 'bad' that it came to mean mainly that. However, some people remember the original more general meaning and, for effect, use it correctly in the opposite sense (because it is surprising, it will get more notice). It's rare for it to be applied to things that aren't good or bad because that would mix in what people expect, and it would come across as being bad.
I think that would work on a kid. Depends on the age. Maybe not a 5 year old, but I think an ordinary 7 year old could handle that. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 18, 2017, 01:32:34 am It's an intensifier. From Latin for 'very very'. It was often enough used for 'bad' that it came to mean mainly that. However, some people remember the original more general meaning and, for effect, use it correctly in the opposite sense (because it is surprising, it will get more notice). It's rare for it to be applied to things that aren't good or bad because that would mix in what people expect, and it would come across as being bad. I think that would work on a kid. Depends on the age. Maybe not a 5 year old, but I think an ordinary 7 year old could handle that. Thanks! And how to determine if we should write sunglasses, readingglasses and shotglasses? Or account manager or accountmanager? The latter being the european Dutch/german word for it, the former being English? Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on September 18, 2017, 01:07:33 pm I'm not sure what the question really is there. You just seemed to give the answer at the end.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Scalare on September 19, 2017, 09:34:14 am I'm not sure what the question really is there. You just seemed to give the answer at the end. Why do we not make language more logical so it wastes less neural capacity to learn it? Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on October 07, 2017, 03:38:43 pm I have added this:
(https://image.ibb.co/bLvztw/education_babies.jpg) And now also this: (https://image.ibb.co/d55XDw/pets_at_school.jpg) http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html (http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on October 20, 2017, 11:34:30 am (https://i.imgur.com/atZdCpI.jpg)
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on December 19, 2017, 10:39:39 pm I have added some board games to the educational resources for 06-09 years old ( http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/) ):
(http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/covalence.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Covalence-A-Molecule-Building-Game/dp/B01K3D4HL6/ (https://www.amazon.com/Covalence-A-Molecule-Building-Game/dp/B01K3D4HL6/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/ion.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Ion-A-Compound-Building-Game/dp/B0190T54W0/ (https://www.amazon.com/Ion-A-Compound-Building-Game/dp/B0190T54W0/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/peptide.png) https://www.amazon.com/Peptide-A-Protein-Building-Game/dp/B010MVHJ6Y/ (https://www.amazon.com/Peptide-A-Protein-Building-Game/dp/B010MVHJ6Y/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/evolution.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/North-Star-Games-Evolution-Board/dp/B0725LRH1W/ (https://www.amazon.com/North-Star-Games-Evolution-Board/dp/B0725LRH1W/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/elementeo.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Elementeo-Chemistry-Card-Game-2nd/dp/B008MC1XDQ/ (https://www.amazon.com/Elementeo-Chemistry-Card-Game-2nd/dp/B008MC1XDQ/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/compounded.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Dice-Hate-Me-Games-RSTR-CMPD/dp/B00GEZAHYO/ (https://www.amazon.com/Dice-Hate-Me-Games-RSTR-CMPD/dp/B00GEZAHYO/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09/antimatter_matters.jpg) https://www.amazon.com/Antimatter-Matters-Quantum-Physics-Really/dp/B00KUY55EW/ (https://www.amazon.com/Antimatter-Matters-Quantum-Physics-Really/dp/B00KUY55EW/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on December 30, 2017, 12:12:57 pm I visited my sister for Christmas, and two of her kids that are 12 and 14 had already started learning about human rights, and had a topic where they were discussing if religion is a unifying force, or a force creating conflict in the world. While on the other hand, they didn't know basic geography, and almost nothing about molecules. I don't understand why teachers are so eager to discuss complicated philosophical/political topics with children, instead of teaching them the basics.
It is probably related to that adults think it is much more fun to discuss philosophical/political topics with children, rather than to teach them the laborious basics. But we need to have a basic understanding of ourselves and the universe, before we can engage in more abstract conversations.... It is a general problem in the world, that people are jumping into abstract/complex conversations without understanding the basics... Take for example black holes. Lots of people love to talk about black holes, but very few know how to work with the equations in general relativity. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on December 30, 2017, 07:38:16 pm I agree with everything up to the example at the end. The math of GR is far from basic.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on December 30, 2017, 11:39:14 pm I agree with everything up to the example at the end. The math of GR is far from basic. I meant somewhat basic in order to understand black holes. Not basic in regard to less complex mathematics, which I guess is most of the mathematics we have today. Except for maybe Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking, I guess there aren't a lot of people that really understand black holes. Probably they don't even really understand black holes. Just some of the mathematics governing black holes. I am currently updating the pages with educational resources. In the future, I don't think I am going to have LaTeX versions of these pages, since they are much better suited for HTML than LaTeX. http://www.archania.org/education/resources/03-06 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/03-06) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/06-09) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/09-12 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/09-12/) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/15-18 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/15-18) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21) And here, all of them put together with a PHP script: http://www.archania.org/education/resources/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on January 05, 2018, 06:57:16 pm I have added these puzzle/educational games:
(https://i.imgur.com/BqSb6VY.jpg) And these to learn how to play musical instruments: (https://i.imgur.com/JqULyA5.jpg) And added/modified several other things at http://www.archania.org/education/resources/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on January 07, 2018, 12:01:35 pm I added some books under "Learning from history" for age 18 to 21:
(https://i.imgur.com/KNzMpsy.jpg) And some books under "Criteria for a health democracy" for age 18 to 21: (https://i.imgur.com/rIRd0AN.jpg) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on January 14, 2018, 08:02:58 pm And who claimed that they aren't making good games anymore? I just added these awesome games to my collection:
(http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/Oxygen-Not-Included.jpg) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/457140/Oxygen_Not_Included/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/screeps.jpg) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/464350/Screeps/) (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/opus_magnum.jpg) (http://store.steampowered.com/app/558990/Opus_Magnum/) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on February 02, 2018, 09:50:30 am I have added brilliant.org (https://brilliant.org/) to the educational resources from age 15-18 (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/15-18/).
(http://www.archania.org/education/resources/15-18/brilliant.jpg) (https://brilliant.org/) Seems like a very nice educational platform for math, physics, and software engineering. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on February 19, 2018, 06:59:58 pm I am now starting the education article like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/kMorZfy.png) http://www.archania.org/education/ (http://www.archania.org/education/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on February 21, 2018, 11:40:23 am All the chemical compounds are now together at: http://www.archania.org/education/compounds (http://www.archania.org/education/compounds)
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on February 25, 2018, 10:51:17 pm I just added this:
(https://i.imgur.com/Kp4Hq53.png) http://www.archania.org/education/ (http://www.archania.org/education/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 08, 2018, 10:44:56 pm I just added this:
(https://i.imgur.com/7DtjhJC.png) http://www.archania.org/education/#Learning_to_put_information_into_convenient_chunks (http://www.archania.org/education/#Learning_to_put_information_into_convenient_chunks) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 11, 2018, 06:15:43 am I mean, you're working with theory, spinning out idea after idea… how much practical work have you done actually teaching children? If people working with the education of children automatically acquired the best understanding about how to educate children, why was corporal punishment in schools (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment#Prevalence) so prevalent in the past? Corporal punishment is still practiced in many parts of the world today. If I lived in one of those places, I wouldn't have any right to criticize the teachers, because they have more experience with educating children than me? (https://i.imgur.com/LeOgfiE.jpg) Also. Not long ago, almost everybody believed in dominance-based training of dogs (https://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/), and it was commonly believed that corporal punishment should be a vital part of dog training. This has completely changed during the last decades, but why didn't dog owners themselves realize that this wasn't necessarily the best way to train dogs? It seems to me like most people are perfectly capable of working their entire lives with something, without realizing that they might be doing it in an inferior or sub-optimal way. I also think we are prone to a bias, which makes us think we are experts in something, just because we have a lot of practical experience. Humans are also extremely prone to social conformity, and most teachers are likely to think that how everybody else is teaching is the right way to teach. Seems like the Mycon take parenting and education much more seriously than humans: Quote The Deep Children! Spears of light in the darkness! Their discarded husks speak of joy to come. I have chosen my offsprings' memories carefully from my set of remembrances the sweet and warm times of my existence and those of my parents' parents' parents the bits of a million lifetimes coalesced into a birth gift of complete awareness. In the dark they grow, the deep fire feeds the Children. Their birth breathes warmth across a cold world. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 11, 2018, 05:35:26 pm I added some books to the "deep dark insightful stories" for age 12 to 15 years old:
(https://i.imgur.com/uP3FHln.png) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/12-15/) And changed some of the books under "criteria for a healthy democracy" for age 18 to 21 years old: (https://i.imgur.com/2npigNr.png) http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21/ (http://www.archania.org/education/resources/18-21/) I even added Atlas Shrugged there, to get more balance between the right and the left. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Death 999 on March 11, 2018, 06:10:18 pm It is much easier to be wrong than it is to be right. Showing that it certain old ways of being wrong persisted despite being common practice does not mean that it's not useful to actually check your theories. Especially since they weren't trying to be empirical.
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 12, 2018, 11:53:03 pm It is much easier to be wrong than it is to be right. Showing that it certain old ways of being wrong persisted despite being common practice does not mean that it's not useful to actually check your theories. Especially since they weren't trying to be empirical. Sure, but lots of my educational system is based upon research by other people, and they of course tend to have emprical proof (I have included some of that in my references, but I am going to add much more references). The emphasis on teaching how to build molecular models and understanding natural sciences very early, might not be very well researched. But it is also based somewhat upon my idea of what I think people should know. I think a basic understanding of natural sciences is extremely important for a society to be functional today. Nations also tend to focus a lot upon teaching national history, while I think we should focus upon world history. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 13, 2018, 05:41:14 pm I added/rewrote this today:
(https://i.imgur.com/cljgNA6.png) http://www.archania.org/education/#How_to_teach_children_of_different_ages (http://www.archania.org/education/#How_to_teach_children_of_different_ages) I have also added some references. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on March 16, 2018, 03:17:23 pm Just wanted to say that several kids from poor countries have contacted me through feedback on my website, to ask me about how to get access to the educational facilities I have written about....
Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 09, 2018, 04:33:09 pm I just added this:
(https://i.imgur.com/fGwSAx7.png) Because of a conversation I am having here: http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34324 (http://www.sciencechatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34324) I have also gotten a new member discussing with me in my forum: https://www.archania.org/forum/ (https://www.archania.org/forum/) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 13, 2018, 10:56:08 pm With help from http://all-free-download.com/free-vector/ (http://all-free-download.com/free-vector/), I have tried to make things a bit more artistic:
(https://www.archania.org/education/Socrates_and_education.png) (https://www.archania.org/governance/equal_opportunities.png) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on April 25, 2018, 10:29:23 pm (https://www.archania.org/governance/Axiom_connecting_science_to_politics.png)
https://www.archania.org/governance/#The_importance_of_scientific_literacy (https://www.archania.org/governance/#The_importance_of_scientific_literacy) EDIT: I moved this section from the education article, to the govenance article under "Criteria for a healthy democracy". Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 16, 2018, 09:33:38 pm I have added these tv shows for kids 3-6:
(https://i.imgur.com/dae8woK.png) These movies for kids to 6-9: (https://i.imgur.com/KpiUkrZ.png) And these for 9-12: (https://i.imgur.com/lbYUcrH.png) https://www.archania.org/education/resources/ (https://www.archania.org/education/resources/) I added Pinocchio mainly because I have been listening to Jordan Peterson's course about Maps and Meaning (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI), where he analyses Pinocchio. Imagine if we could get Jordan Peterson to make a course where he analyses Star Control 2. That would probably increase the popularity of Star Control 2 a lot, especially among scholars and intellectuals. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on May 29, 2018, 01:40:03 pm (https://i.imgur.com/MZZucdE.png)
https://www.archania.org/education/#Age_Group_12_to_15_-_Meaningful_learning (https://www.archania.org/education/#Age_Group_12_to_15_-_Meaningful_learning) Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on October 18, 2018, 12:19:18 am I don't think that effect is reliably existent, let alone strong enough to base educational theory on. Look. Even machine learning algorithms apparently learn better when they are motivated by curiosity: https://towardsdatascience.com/curiosity-driven-learning-made-easy-part-i-d3e5a2263359 (https://towardsdatascience.com/curiosity-driven-learning-made-easy-part-i-d3e5a2263359) Curiosity is apparently more scalable than external rewards. Title: Re: Age related education Post by: Zanthius on October 19, 2018, 11:57:56 am Quote Several studies have found that it is better to motivate people with reward than by punishment. Procedural learning seems to be enhanced by using reward rather than punishment[3]. People seem to have higher retention of what they learned when they are motivated to learn by rewards[4]. Punishments can also produce undesirable psychological consequences, such as anxiety[5]. However, there are also problems with using rewards to motivate children to learn. Children might focus more on how to trick or manipulate their mentors to give them rewards, rather than upon learning. Intellectual curiosity is essential for a child’s own eagerness to learn. Lately, curiosity (or the tendency to investigate novelty) has been found to have many advantages over external rewards in machine learning[6,7]. (https://www.archania.org/education/curiosity_vs_reward_and_punishment.png) https://www.archania.org/education/ (https://www.archania.org/education/) I am thinking... you could say that capitalism mostly is based upon "reward" or the green row, while authoritarian regimes mostly are based upon "punishment" or the red row. This could also be one of the main reasons why capitalistic societies have tended to be more successful than authoritarian regimes. I am also thinking that these colors fit somewhat with the colors of the houses in Dune 2: (https://imag.malavida.com/mvimgbig/download-fs/dune-2-13152-1.jpg) You can play it here: https://classicreload.com/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty.html (https://classicreload.com/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty.html) Apparently, both Star Control 2 and Dune 2 were released in 1992, so I am assuming that many of you played both these games. And look. They also have an open source HD project, just like SC2: http://dunelegacy.sourceforge.net/website/index.html (http://dunelegacy.sourceforge.net/website/index.html) Dune 2, Wolfenstein 3D, and Ultima Underworld all came in 1992. These games have been the original inspiration for many of the games that were created later. Dune 2 -> Real-time strategy games. Wolfenstein 3D -> First-person shooter games. Ultima underworld -> First-person role-playing games. So they had a lot already back in 1992. But they didn't have generalized AI's for games, and they didn't have devices for augmented reality games. The AIs in Dune Legacy are much better than in Dune 2: (https://image.ibb.co/i9oFML/P-20181021-121650-v-HDR-Auto.jpg) |