The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

(https://image.ibb.co/gWuAsa/chemistry_to_kids.png)

Here is a list of some medicinal molecules, vaguely arranged in different levels according to how complicated they will be to make with a molecular building kit. I am going to start to draw them now, and maybe write a little bit about what they do. Also, I will include some basic, but non-medicinal molecules, like water, CO2, and so on.

level 1
metaformin, nitroglycerin, alendronate,

level 2
aspirn, ibuprofen, allopuyrinol, atenolol, enalapril, amloipine, clopidogrel bisulfate, FTY720, isoniazid, acyclovir, ribavirin, oseltamivir, zidovudine, zalcitabine, carboplatin,  cyclophosphamide, lidocaine, acetaminophen, gabapentin, levodopa, tranylcypromine, selegiline

level 3
naproxen, celecoxib, salmeterol, montelukast sodium, loratadine, glipizide, pioglitazone, sitagliptin, ezetimibe, slidenafil, latanoprost, ranitidine, omeprazole, azathioprine, mycophenolate mofetil, amoxicillin, cefaclor, doxycycline, ciprofloxacin, trimethoprim, linezolid, nevirapine, efavirenz, fluconazole, terbinafine, chloroquine, atovaquone, miltefosine, nitazoxanide, capecitabine, tamoxifen, morphine, fentanyl, sodium thiopental, diazepam, sumatriptan, zolpidem, ramelteon, varenicline, donepezil, chlorpromazine, imipramine, nortriptyline, fluoxetine, escitalopram, cloapine

level 4
prednisone, methotrexate, fluticasone propionate, tiotropium bromide, atorvastatin, candesartan cilexetil, aliskiren, digoxin, testosterone, mifepristone, calcitriol, raloxifene, tacrolimus, azithromycin ,amikacin, lopinavir, UK-427857, artemether, ivermectin, irinotecan, imatinib, sunitinib, bortezomib

level 5
oxytocin, cyclosporin, vancomycin, caspofungin, vinblastine, paclitaxel, bleomycin

I don't know how useful this would actually be.

You don't think it is useful to know the structures of medicinal molecules? If you are going to study medicine, pharmacology or chemistry later, it will be useful. And people in general know way too little chemistry. These molecules have done a lot to improve human health, and we (as species) would be able to accomplish much more with more medicinal chemistry. The secret to a world without diseases might lie in medicinal chemistry. The secret to eternal life might lie in medicinal chemistry. The secret to making people more intelligent might lie in medicinal chemistry. And so on.

Chemistry is just as important as the other natural sciences. All the natural sciences are important, and  kids love to build stuff like this. It will be fun.

This will of course also just be some of the curriculum for the "chemistry room". I will start working with the curriculum for the other rooms later.

Nope, it's not really necessary.
Chemistry is far more than knowing the molecules.
It is how these molecules are made (processes using catlytics, energy usage, when does it run haywire, what the theoretical energy  need will be, how tomstop a rampaging process,, what the molecule does in a human body, testing,...)
äAnd this building set gives a nice touchable result, but gives the wrong impression of how a molecule is actually built.

Of course, but you cannot teach that to a 4-5 year old. You can however teach this to a 4-5 year old, and if somebody learns these structures when they are 4-5 years old, organic chemistry is going to be a lot easier. They also learn that carbon can bind to 4, nitrogen can bind to 3, oxygen can bind to 2, halogens can bind to 1, from these molecular building kits. Many bachelor students have problems with this, and reaction mechanisms also become easier if you have a good understanding of how many molecular bonds the different elements form.


Lots about how a molecule interacts with your body, is actually related to the molecular structure. And this course would be super good at teaching people what structural motifs interact with your body, because ALL these structures are bioactive. And if the kids are able to see similarities in these structures, they might even understand something about what part of the molecules are bioactive.


Many of the most famous organic chemists in the world actually use molecular building kits, to visualize how molecules look 3-dimensionally. Look for example what Phil Baran is holding in his hands here:

(https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/default/files/2016/09/main/articles/100116_feature_baran-macarthur_main.jpg)
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/phil-baran-chemist-sn-10-scientists-watch?mode=topic&context=45 (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/phil-baran-chemist-sn-10-scientists-watch?mode=topic&context=45)

Also. Molecules can be built in several different ways. There are for example 9 different synthetic pathways to Taxol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paclitaxel_total_synthesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paclitaxel_total_synthesis)). The point is that it is important to know chemical structures in itself. Not just one synthetic pathway to make a molecule. They can learn "chemical structures" first, and "synthetic pathways" or "retrosynthesis" or "reaction mechanisms" much later, when they have a sufficiently developed brain to learn those things. The whole point of much of my education scheme, is to educate people at the right age. If you can learn new languages in kindergarten, it is stupid to learn them in high school. Better to use high school to learn something else, which you can't learn in kindergarten.

However, in addition to working with molecular building kits, maybe the teacher could show some experiments with acids/bases and oxidizing/reducing agents. And they should probably start with a course about the periodic table already when they are 8 years old, where they learn such basic things like the difference between halogens and alkali metals.

I have drawn some basic compounds, that the children should start with before they start with the medicinal compounds. I am thinking also vitamins and amino acids, in addition to medicinal compounds.

(https://image.ibb.co/m36zJF/basic_compounds.png)

Finally finished with first draft of Medicinal Molecules Level 1:

(https://image.ibb.co/hHktvv/medicinal_molecules_1.png)

Hmm. I guess some of this could be useful for kids. The common solvents, acids, and bases, say - but the medicinal molecules bit just seems complicated and unenlightening. Why do any of those molecules do that? Over 99% of that explanation lies in the biological system it's interacting with, not the molecule itself.

You are overthinking this. Sure, some of these medicinal molecules might be obsolete when the children get older, and it is a bit human-centric to focus upon molecules that interact with biological systems in an advantageous way for human beings.

But, the "common solvents", "common acids", and "common bases" are far too simple for a child's curiosity. After a while, they will feel a greater level of accomplishment by building larger and more complex structures. Most of the large complex molecules that are synthesized today, are medicinal (they usually don't get funding to make large complex non-medicinal compounds). Later, when they are older, then can also learn about how these complex medicinal molecules were synthesized, and remember back to when they made the structures with molecular building kits earlier in life.

Think of these molecules as LEGO spaceships. As a kid gets more accustomed to building simple LEGO constructions, they want to construct more complex structures. In the same way, they will have a desire to build larger more complex molecules after a while. I have started working on Medicinal Molecules Level 2.

(https://image.ibb.co/gRMN5v/starcon.jpg)

And if they think spaceships are cool, while medicines are boring. Just tell them to imagine that a pet, relative, or friend they care about gets sick. And maybe they could save them with that medicine.

EDIT: Maybe best to not tell such cruel things to a kid. Maybe the child has used a pain killer while it had tooth pain, and you explain which molecules can take away the tooth pain.

When the kids are about 8-9 years old, they should start to learn a little about basic chemistry theory. I would start with something like this.

"wants" should not have an apostrophe.

In the second section heading, "noble", not "nobel".

Also, the bit about acid strength needs some caveats - this is specifically about the hydrogen halides, not acids in general.

Also, Astatine is often considered a halogen.

Thanks for the feedback. I have made it a little better now. Astatine is unstable/radioactive. I also don't have Lithium, because I wanted it to be symmetrical on both sides of the noble gases.  Based on some feedback I have gotten from another source, I should introduce Big Bang nucleosynthesis, Stellar nucleosynthesis, and Supernova nucleosynthesis, before this. I should maybe also introduce basic electronics before this, so they know what a charge is.  I am thinking that the kids should make galvanic cells as an experiment when they are like 7-8 years old, and other electronics experiments.

(https://image.ibb.co/ky8ena/basic_chemistry.png)

I have made a PDF (http://archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.pdf (http://archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.pdf)) and HTML (http://archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html (http://archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html)) file for this now.

And for the "making models of medicinal molecules".  PDF: http://archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.pdf (http://archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.pdf) HTML: http://archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.html (http://archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.html)

I got tired of drawing tons of simple molecules, so I started with the most complex molecules. I think I am going to have less of the simple molecules, and a steeper gradient to the most complex molecules.

(https://image.ibb.co/c7FS8F/medicinal_molecules_5.png)

More or less finished with drawing molecules. I have made one page for "common solvents, acids and bases", one for "simple medicinal molecules", one for "common medicinal molecules", and one for "complex medicinal molecules". I might add another page for "other complex molecules" later. I have put links to all of the pages here: http://www.archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.html (http://www.archania.org/making_models_of_medicinal_molecules.html)

I have updated the page about the chemistry of alkali metals and halogens:

(https://image.ibb.co/kBNj15/finkelstein.jpg)

http://www.archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html (http://www.archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html)

Looks like you're taking away all the fun in learning chemistry. Where's the cool experiments? :)
Also, that skeletal notation you're using is more confusing than the standard full notation.
And why the focus on medicine and not on clean energy and plastics for example? :)

The way I have drawn the molecules is the most standardized way, and also the way that gives you the best overview of a molecule. All organic chemists draw molecules like that.

But!!!! It isn't the most EDUCATIONAL way to draw molecules. That is the Lewis structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_structure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_structure)).

Of course! Kids shouldn't just make models of all the medicinal molecules. They should also draw the Lewis structures. What a great idea!

Here is the Lewis structure of Aspirin:

(http://benlopatin.com/aspirin/asp_lews.gif)


Plastics are polymers, which are repeating structures, much like a carpet pattern. Here is the structure of Polyvinyl chloride (PVC):

(https://chlorine.americanchemistry.com/uploadedImages/chlorine/Site_Content/_Image_Library/Content_Images/PVC-Production-3.jpg)

Compare that to Vinchristine, a medicinal molecule used against cancer:

(https://image.ibb.co/jqJZkb/vinchristine.jpg)

I think it will be much more fun (and difficult) to make Vinchristine, and it will give kids a greater sense of accomplishment.

But nevertheless, I might make a page about polymers, since they are very common.

I still use chemistry in my daily life, but never the complex medicinal molecules ;).
But you intend on teaching kids just the complex stuff not the things that could save them from household disasters?

I made it with hearts now. More fun?

(https://image.ibb.co/c5o1yw/finkelstein.jpg)

http://www.archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html (http://www.archania.org/the_chemistry_of_halogens_and_alkali_metals.html)

They should make explosions in the classroom themselves. Instead of watching heartshaped representations of experiments ;).
Or atleast learn why soap works or why you can't mix certain cleaning products, or how to prevent yourself from dying of carbon monoxide poisoning, or why cola cleans rust, or how co2 leakage can kill you, or how a battery works etc etc etc.
Those are all useful chemistry applications.

I agree completely with you that we need to focus mostly on experiments, especially when kids are very young. However, as they grow older, they should also learn a bit of theory.

In chemistry, without a decent amount of theory, the experiments are just confusing.

I don't think so. Even the cleaning lady knows she shouldn't mix certain cleaning products, and she also knows that not burning gas completely can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning, but I doubt that she has ever had a chemistry class in school in which it is explained why that happens.

That's training, not education. You train for a uniform response to a predictable situation (e.g. encountering incompatible cleaners). You are educated to have an informed intelligent response to unpredictable situations. The latter is far harder.

I have now added instructions to draw the Lewis structures of the different molecules:

(https://image.ibb.co/nkEmYw/lewis_structures.jpg)

http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html (http://archania.org/learning_motivated_by_curiosity_and_a_sense_of_accomplishment.html)

Yes. Or to learn the general rules behind the particulars, instead of memorizing all the particulars. Unfortunately, lots of modern education is training. For example, when a student learns to use a flash chromatography column, they learn to do it in the same way as the teacher and everybody before. Unfortunately, this is not the optimal way to do it.

A friend of mine that has no university education, is interested in isolating CBD and THC from marijuana plants. I showed him how to construct a flash column that will be much better than the ones they use at universities. He understood the general rules immediately, and since he is a practical person, he knows how to build it more or less by himself.

The funny thing is that he might be able to mass produce these modular and expandable flash columns and sell them to universities, even though he has no university education himself.

I think it is extremely important to let students figure out solutions to problems themselves, with a bit of guidance. Otherwise they will just copy their teachers, without getting an in-depth understanding.

You're right, that's my non-native English brain getting in the way of properly understanding you and explaining myself.
I know having an informed intelligent response to unpredictable situations is far harder, I think the best example would be if we were all to be on a spaceship together, who would be the savior of the ship when things go awry, the student with a PhD in rocket science, or the veteran engineer who has worked on spaceships all his life?

It is my philosophy to see all people as equally able to contribute something to society, and I think people tend to underestimate the awesome power of the human brain greatly. Regardless of what education you have, you have a wonderful statistical machine inside of you with a lifetime of data giving you a 'gut feeling' that can make you do the right thing in a few seconds without even having to actively think about it. That is the reason why humans evolved to be so successul. And with education added to it, we can stand upon the shoulders of our peers and ancestors, getting better and better at solving daily life's problems.

Still, intelligence and a great memory will get you a long way, but what I find lacking in even the most intelligent people is curiosity. They live perfectly well in a world where they are told what to learn, and learn it perfectly. Then they think they get a sticker or something. But when these people don't have the curiosity to look beyond what they have learned, they will likely be less succesful than less intelligent people with more curiosity, who dare to think outside of the box.

I have added a new page containing the amino acids and and most common neurotransmitters:

(http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/endogenous/Amino_acids.svg)

(http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/endogenous/Neurotransmitters.svg)

http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/endogenous/ (http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/endogenous/)

I have also added health promoting molecules to the page containing vitamins and medicines.

(http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/exogenous/Health_promoting_molecules.svg)

http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/exogenous/ (http://www.archania.org/education/compounds/exogenous/)

I will probably add much more health promoting molecules. The reason why I have so few now is because it was very difficult to find reliable research about these molecules. I guess psychedelics could be considered a type of health promoting molecules....

I am also working on incorporating reducing agents, oxidizing agents, and lewis acids to the page about basic compounds.

I have added this to my article about how to teach chemistry to kids:

(https://i.imgur.com/ea9eaxK.png)

https://www.archania.org/education/chemistry/ (https://www.archania.org/education/chemistry/)

Might want to define 'homolytic' before you start using it.

Good idea. I might talk a bit about the difference between heterolytic and homolytic cleavage.

I should furthermore write a bit about electron donating groups (EDG) and electron withdrawing groups (EWG) in conjugated and aromatic systems.