The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: orobouros on October 19, 2017, 11:27:42 pm



Title: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: orobouros on October 19, 2017, 11:27:42 pm
I played the heck out of SC2 in the 90s, and a little UQM a few years ago.  Someone reminded me of it recently so I returned and reinstalled, having changed PCs since then.

I can't get anywhere.  The first stupid, broken Ilwrath cannot be defeated at all, under any circumstances!  This MUST be some kind of hideous new bug, no?

Every ship I choose warps right next to him, every time.  Never further than max zoom range, even once.  Always point-blank range.  I've tried 15 times!  And that's 30 fights since it happens to both the flagship and the cruiser!  They're both 100% doomed from the start since neither is fast or maneuverable enough to even shoot once that thing is in range!  On top of this, the cyborg pilot always loses!  WHAT. THE. HELL?!?!

I was really looking forward to playing this again.  Now I can't.  That's sincerely infurating.  No one else has had this problem?


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Kohr-Ah Death on October 20, 2017, 01:46:35 am
Damn, that's a long and horrible luck of the draw.

I don't remember there being specific code for certain ships allowing for closer warp-ins on average.

If there is I believe it might only be the Vux that has it. But again I don't seem to remember if that's the case.

Does the same thing happen in Super Melee?


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Death 999 on October 20, 2017, 04:41:33 am
That's bizarre. I would have expected it to be biased the other way if anything. What version is this? What platform?


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Krulle on October 20, 2017, 09:37:23 am
Damn, that's a long and horrible luck of the draw.

I don't remember there being specific code for certain ships allowing for closer warp-ins on average.

If there is I believe it might only be the Vux that has it. But again I don't seem to remember if that's the case.

Does the same thing happen in Super Melee?
The VUX general had a precursor device preventing the player from warping out.
The VUX in-game had a device that usually ported them into combat very close to the opponent, and often aimed in the correct direction. So, full lazer right at start.

But none had something like you warping in very close....

This is.... highly unusual. And may have to do with a broken random number generator, basically providing the same coordinates for both players all the time.
(But I am only guessing.)

Haven't played UQM in a while, but never had this issue myself so far.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Julie.chan on October 20, 2017, 04:52:49 pm
The VUX exception doesn't happen in the campaign, only in Super-Melee.

If the RNG is giving you problems, you can restart the game (as in, close the game and then re-open it). That will give it a different seed.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: CelticMinstrel on October 21, 2017, 11:30:30 pm
Slightly off-topic, but...
The VUX exception doesn't happen in the campaign, only in Super-Melee.
It doesn't even happen in the campaign when you're not using the flagship? Somehow I had always just assumed the flagship was immune to their ability...


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Death 999 on October 22, 2017, 02:41:10 am
Nope, story VUX got nerfed to near-uselessness.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Kryptonian on October 22, 2017, 06:07:03 am
I played the heck out of SC2 in the 90s, and a little UQM a few years ago.  Someone reminded me of it recently so I returned and reinstalled, having changed PCs since then.

I can't get anywhere.  The first stupid, broken Ilwrath cannot be defeated at all, under any circumstances!  This MUST be some kind of hideous new bug, no?

Every ship I choose warps right next to him, every time.  Never further than max zoom range, even once.  Always point-blank range.  I've tried 15 times!  And that's 30 fights since it happens to both the flagship and the cruiser!  They're both 100% doomed from the start since neither is fast or maneuverable enough to even shoot once that thing is in range!  On top of this, the cyborg pilot always loses!  WHAT. THE. HELL?!?!

I was really looking forward to playing this again.  Now I can't.  That's sincerely infurating.  No one else has had this problem?

Every once in a while, I had run into something similar so I set the battle AI to strong cyborg to get past that part then change it after.  Have you tried that?  Maybe it will help! Good luck! :)


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Mormont on October 22, 2017, 08:44:17 am
This is very strange. Is this with a new game each time? Have you tried reinstalling?


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Death 999 on October 22, 2017, 04:08:04 pm
On top of this, the cyborg pilot always loses! 

Every once in a while, I had run into something similar so I set the battle AI to strong cyborg to get past that part then change it after.  Have you tried that?  Maybe it will help! Good luck! :)

Quoted material stripped for emphasis.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: orobouros on October 22, 2017, 10:36:43 pm
I played the heck out of SC2 in the 90s, and a little UQM a few years ago.  Someone reminded me of it recently so I returned and reinstalled, having changed PCs since then.

I can't get anywhere.  The first stupid, broken Ilwrath cannot be defeated at all, under any circumstances!  This MUST be some kind of hideous new bug, no?

Every ship I choose warps right next to him, every time.  Never further than max zoom range, even once.  Always point-blank range.  I've tried 15 times!  And that's 30 fights since it happens to both the flagship and the cruiser!  They're both 100% doomed from the start since neither is fast or maneuverable enough to even shoot once that thing is in range!  On top of this, the cyborg pilot always loses!  WHAT. THE. HELL?!?!

I was really looking forward to playing this again.  Now I can't.  That's sincerely infurating.  No one else has had this problem?

Every once in a while, I had run into something similar so I set the battle AI to strong cyborg to get past that part then change it after.  Have you tried that?  Maybe it will help! Good luck! :)

I had to download and install a new version from Sourceforge, with the HD textures I kept seeing on YouTube, but don't appear to be in this version (odd).  Every reinstall of the version available from this site, you cannot EVER get past that very first fight.  With the HD version, I had no problem.

That said, I'm not seeing (and don't remember) a Cyborg AI strength setting anywhere.

Meanwhile, I'm finding decent resources MUCH harder to find than I remember.  As in, every blinkin' planet on every blinkin' system has Class 5 or higher weather, tectonics, or temperature, or else it has no resources at all, not even common ones.  I don't see how I'm supposed to pay for fuel, let alone anything else, without a walkthrough to tell me exactly which planets to hit.  Places you can mine with the standard lander and not be instantly vaporized (and make back the fuel it costs you to land), seem vanishingly rare compared to what I remember.  I'll be disappointed if I can't play without a detailed cheat sheet...


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Krulle on October 22, 2017, 10:58:52 pm
Have you mined Pluto?


>><O0O^|°>


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Mormont on October 23, 2017, 01:22:55 am
The most important early target is Alpha Centauri, which is cool for a supergiant and has some excellent worlds (and the game points you there early with the Melnorme). The outer planets aren't that hot and the richest inner ones can be mined with repeated hit-and-run landings; it's close enough to Sol. If you clean out the Ruby Worlds there, that alone will give you a solid start! Then run through AC's sister stars. Delta Centauri is inside Ilwrath territory, but just barely - it's only a minor risk once your ship is somewhat fast. Lyrae is worth hitting too, Alpha Wolf is mineral poor but good for biodata. Sol's neighbors generally aren't the best and it can be annoying to have so many 1-3 planet systems, but if you search around and don't waste time on poor planets you'll find some good worlds spread between them (lots of Ultramarine and Noble I think).

Are you landing on the planets with just commons or corrosives? You can skip them and spend the time and fuel looking for better worlds instead; even base metal-only planets are barely worth the trouble. Class 5 tectonics is manageable and worth landing for good minerals, by the way (class 5 lightning is more difficult though). Hayes' advice on star colors is solid too and can save you time - small red and orange stars tend to be poor (but larger ones like Alpha Centauri can be good because of more tolerable heat).

Also the central constellations in alien spheres of influence tend to be pretty rich without much distance between the stars, so start making longer journeys as soon as you can. Besides a handful of mining trips near Sol to get started, you should plan your journeys for specific destinations and mine when you get there. Always keep some credits in reserve for the Melnorme so you'll have more flexibility with your fuel range.

Sell your ion bolt gun at the start to get the initial upgrades quicker - your flagship shouldn't be fighting until it has full speed/turning at a bare minimum, and rarely even then.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: orobouros on October 23, 2017, 01:43:40 am
Have you mined Pluto?


>><O0O^|°>

If I'd remembered that Fwiffo was so close, I might have snuck out to Pluto before the Ilwrath showed up, as even an under-strength Eluder should have had an easier time keeping away from an Avenger than either a Cruiser or the flagship.  Of course, before the station gets refitted, you can't transfer crew, so he'd be a glass cannon piloting the ship solo...  Meh.  At least I'm past it now and don't feel stuck.

As for the exotic dot on Pluto, what do you think financed my first trip, where I found I could barely make back the fuel I spent, and was skipping 3 out of 4 planets for either having nothing or being far too hostile?

That said, I DID avoid the Centauri cluster, for being mostly red and remembering that red = poorer quality planets, at least per the station commander's intro.  I also had some vague memory of Alpha Centauri in particular being someplace I was trying to avoid, but I don't remember why.  Clearly this was a mistake and I need to mine the heck out of every cluster around Earth because skipping the hostile planets means you'll get barely enough to get by and I can't afford to try to be choosy.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Mormont on October 23, 2017, 01:58:22 am
FYI you actually can transfer crew without the starbase - go to Manifest -> Roster in the menu. This is one of the less intuitive parts of the game's interface, but it's pretty handy.

Hayes' advice on star colors is generally good, but doesn't really apply to supergiants, which are usually loaded regardless so cooler tends to be better. Fortunately Alpha Centauri is one of the safer ones.

One more thing: if you're not using the 2134 starmap, it's a great resource for getting started and for a couple pieces of dialog involving constellation shapes (and was included in the original box).
http://www.star-control.com/files/Starmaps/02.gif


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Death 999 on October 23, 2017, 04:32:27 am
Class 3 weather is dangerous. Class 5 tectonics is something you can deal with with a little practice. So that should help.

Alpha Centauri's inner planets are too rough for me to handle.

Also, you may notice that your flagship starts out terrible in a fight. So if you give up on fighting with it and strip it of anything that can be used to fight, that frees up a lot more resources. Once you have spare resources, you can load it up again.

Disassembling and reassembling is at 100% efficiency. Except, you can't rebuild alien ships you couldn't build from scratch.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Krulle on October 23, 2017, 10:21:41 am
Yeah, I remember the time I found that out. Formt hat moment onward, I saw my flagship as the re-fill station for any crew my battle group needed.... I also used the Spathi ship, it has a large crew compartment, and is not a really good ship for most fights... (although it excels in the ones needed at the start of the game: the Probes and the Avengers (I always went start-mining in Volantis systems, and a bit of practice can amke the Eluder kill cloaked Avengers easily: just get the Backwards Utilized Tracking Torpedo aimed slightly off the Avenger, he'll uncloak very briefly to shoot it down (but thus activating the auto-alignment - and the fire misses the BUTT), which makes the BUTT curve around and hit))


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: Mormont on October 23, 2017, 04:04:44 pm
You'll usually take some damage from class 3 lightning, but only a few crew and it is worth it for good planets unless you're already low on crew (though I'll admit from a role-playing perspective this sounds really callous!). Class 4 is where it really gets dicey.

Alpha Centauri's inner planets are still cooler than most supergiants' outer worlds and can be mined at manageable risk if you land right by the deposit, grab it, and go back up. It's only worth the trouble for the inner ruby world and maybe one or two others though.

Well, as you can see players have different views on risk management in mining! You can figure out from our advice what works best for you.


Title: Re: Returning player: game is now 100% impossible, cannot progress!
Post by: orobouros on October 23, 2017, 10:37:26 pm
Thanks everybody.  Having discovered the HD modded version, I've been trying to get that to work, and failing.  I'll start a new thread for that, though, since all the existing ones are way old.