The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

When I played Star Control 2 years ago on my PC, I was blown away by how good it was.

When I ran across The Ur-Quan Masters some time later, I loved the project, and was particularly amazed to see that almost all of the dialogue had been voiced.

However, that joy was eventually marred by the discovery that some of the dialogue had been changed from the PC version - and not just in minor ways, but in ways that actually eliminated information not available anywhere else in the game - the the extent of breaking required quest chains, making it impossible to complete the game without reading a guide or random exploration.  Some of the worst offenders where:

The Melnorme didn't reveal the game's time limit
The Mycon didn't reveal the location of their homeworld
The Syreen didn't reveal the location of Syra

I decided to do something about it.  I planned to create three mods that would address this, and as of the day before yesterday, the last of those three mods is complete.

My Mycon voice mod restored the missing homeworld information - in fact, it's included by default in every HD release of The Ur-Quan Masters.
Next I released a full Melnorme re-dub, voiced by yours truly, that adds in a lot of missing dialogue, including the missing time limit info.
And as of the day before yesterday, with the help of Katie Otten and Serosis, I've completed a full Syreen re-dub as well.

These mods were created with the following priorities in mind (in order of importance):
1. Restore plot/game-critical information from the PC version (eg, the location of Syra)
2. Ensure dialogue is consistent with in-game lore
3. Keep as many jokes in as possible
4. Restore PC dialogue if it is different from 3DO dialogue

Serosis has kindly not only included these mods as options in the MegaMod installer, but even modified the game binary to allow for the restoration of some additional PC dialogue for the Syreen if the Syreen Voice Fix mod is detected.

Finally, you can play the game for the game fully voiced and complete all the required game quests by following the clues and directions given to you by the aliens you encounter.

I'm extremely proud of having completed these mods, and want to extend my sincere thanks to Katie Otten (www.katieotten.com) and Serosis (http://megamod.serosis.net/Releases) for all the assistance they have rendered to make this possible.

For a taster of the mods in action, see these youtube videos:
https://youtu.be/OWt2wj7pFU8
https://youtu.be/12CxK3KG0t0
https://youtu.be/D2oQDA31zsc
https://youtu.be/R2jBCErfG3s

For further information, see my site at www.warpstormstudios.com/uqmmod.

Thank you!

Inded.
Thank You, kind Sir!

Sounds good.

I wish somebody could make a new voice for the Chmmr.

Compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaS6tUumb0U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaS6tUumb0U) to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew6PbcXW6sA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew6PbcXW6sA).

The Chmmr voice sound waaaaay too human. Same for the Mycon. This sounds more like I imagined the Mycon (or the Kohr-Ah) when I played SC2 without voice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-B8NS8sPOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-B8NS8sPOk)). I want more diversity in the voices. More evil voices! Most of them sound too human!

Huh, I'm a bit surprised. I haven't really liked any of the other revoicings I've heard, but this Melnorme one isn't bad. Though, I think you mispronounced "Keel-Verezy" - if I'm not mistaken, "Verezy" should be distinctly three syllables. (Pretty sure this was the case in the original dialogue.)

As for the Syreen, I don't think I like it as much. It's not bad, though. She did mispronounce "Yehat", which is supposed to be "YAY-hat", and one of the words in the second video also somehow sounded wrong ("perpetrating"), but I could be wrong on that one.

Listening to the first Syreen also made me wonder if that historical prediction would prove to be prophetic...

You didn't link a video for the Mycon, but I think I might've heard them on Serosis's site, in which case I didn't much like them either.

I'm kinda curious what the game logic changes were that you needed for the Syreen fix.

When presenting evidence of the Deep Children to the Syreen they say that they need to research the egg casing before they can jump to conclusions. End conversation.

The next time you visit them they've come around and want you to look for the Ship Vault.

Basically it reverts to the PC version whereas the 3DO version they jump to the Mycon conclusion and have you look for the ship vault right away.
The convo logic is only changed while Soul Reaver's Syreen voice package is slotted in place.

Honestly the primary reason for the revoicing is to re-insert the missing dialogue - providing a new voice is merely a side-effect of that goal.  You CAN choose to stick with the orginial voices, but if you do, you have to be aware that you will not be given information crucial to finishing the game.

Regarding the Keel Verezy, no other aliens mention them so I'll give myself the artistic license to pronounce it how I like. :P

Yehat/Yayhat, yeah, you might have a point there.  I'll see if I can get her to fix that.  'Perpetrating' is completely correct though.

What 'historical prediction' do you mean?

There is no Mycon video, but if you turn up the volume here: https://youtu.be/C2XkwD2qs5I?t=1540 you can hear it in-game.
The Mycon one is not a full redub, just an attempt to re-insert the missing lines.  I'm actually kind of tempted to do a full redub just because it would be more consistent, but that'll be a project for a different time.  Besides, seeing as how the Mycon 'switch personalities' at the drop of a hat, and that some of their previous dialogue editing does cause some sudden shifts in tone/pitch, I think I can get away with it not being perfectly identical.
You can hear all the modded lines on soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/soul-reaver-3/mycon-056-full-v1
https://soundcloud.com/soul-reaver-3/mycon-043-full-v4
https://soundcloud.com/soul-reaver-3/mycon-066-full-v1

As for the game logic fix:
In the 3DO version of the game, if you show the egg fragments to Talana, she gets angry and immediately commits herself and her people to getting revenge on the Mycon.  She then immediately asks you to go and find their Penetrator ships.

In the PC version, this went a little differently.  If you show her the egg fragments, she gets angry, but dials back and states that they will run tests and confirm what you're saying is actually true.  The conversation then ends, chucking you back into space.  After you go back to the starbase, she has an additional bit of dialogue, confirming that what you said is true, and that (most of) her people are onboard with getting revenge on the Mycon.  Then she asks you to go and find the Penetrator ships.

I feel from a character perspective this is significant: in the PC version, she doesn't just arbitrarily decide on the behalf of her (near extict) people to go to war just based on what you tell her.  She actually verifies the truth of what you say and gets majority consensus.

In terms of the game logic, the conversation had to be changed to end after the (HORRIBLE_TRUTH) dialgoue, so that it would play the (MUST_ACT) dialogue (not voiced and inaccessible in the 3DO version) when you next talk to her.  All the game flags needed were already present.  Serosis set it to use the PC logic when my mod is detected, otherwise it sticks with the 3DO logic.

One of the things i really dislike about most scifi tv shows, is that aliens often look very similar to humans. This is not the case for SC2. There most of the aliens look quite different from humans. So why not make a bit of an effort to also make the voices less humanoid? I don't understand this. It could make a huge difference to the game experience.

You're using an universal translator.
Made to translate into Human language.
Wouldn't you expect a certain Human sound to it as well?

I would.

Okay. Then maybe you should make all the aliens sound exactly the same. Nothing would be more boring than that.

This is a game, not a simulator. And of course one of the main objectives should be to make the aliens feel as alien as possible. One way to acheive this is by alien voices.

Also. Aren't we free to use whatever voices we want in this megamod?

You do realize the game specifically mentions the universal translator (when you first meet the Orz), right?

So what? You don't think there can be different universal translators? Some might even be able to get the pitch to some degree from the aliens.

To a degree, it does.
But I don't expect the translator to make the alien sound like a dog.
Or bubblish because the other speaker is submerged in a liquid.

I still expect the universal translator's output for me to be in a way that is intended for maximum comprehensibility by my Human ears.

If you were traveling in outer space, or really trying to communicate with Chinese people, sure. But, as I have said tons of times, this isn't a simulator, but a game. And in a game, such as this one, the objective is to give the players a maximum sense of "Chinese" when they encounter a Chinese person. A universal translator that maximizes comprehensibility reduces the sense of "Chinese" when talking to a Chinese person. This is boring.

Then make it better.

Do what people like me and Soul Reaver do and go hands on.


So... Like the Shofixti?   :D

But the exact intention of how technology should work.

But then, I'm always switching off voice overs anyway. Too slow for my liking.
I prefer reading. On my speed.

I think this might be getting somewhat off-topic, but to add my two cents:

Firstly, the 'universal translator' thing is true, but at the same time is just a convenient artifice.  The aliens you meet have a variety of voices and effects, so obviously they don't all have to sound the same.

However, UQM is a heavily dialogue-driven game, and that dialogue ceases to be effective if it fails to convey emotion (or in some cases, lack thereof) and nuance, which is hard to do if you drown it all with post production sound effects.

While I agree the Mycon could sound different, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with how they sound either.  I do think it's wrong to actively make them sound 'evil'.  They aren't evil at all - no more than a malfunctioning machine can be evil.  They are just carrying out their programming, though it has suffered degradation over the centuries.

That said, it wouldn't be all that hard for you to take the existing audio and apply a bunch of filters to it if you wanted to make it sound more alien.  Or even to re-record the dialogue however you like - the Mycon don't have nearly as much dialogue as some of the other aliens.  I can give you some guidance on how to extract the files if you want to try that and Audacity is a free program you can use to edit the sounds.

By the way, the Chmmr sound a lot like robots/computers from early 50s-60s pulp sci-fi TV shows, which is very fitting and likely intentional since the entire game has a similar aesthetic (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJtf5-aPuk)

I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I don't think the Mycon are evil at all. In fact, I think they are much more benevolent than humans. What I meant is rather that they aren't given sufficient depth of voice to convey their power.

I have a dog. Dogs convey power to each other by depth/loudness of growling. Most mammals (including humans) are familiar with this system. If a dog has a very loud and deep growl, it will convey more power to other dogs and mammals, and they will respect the dog more. I want the Mycon to convey power in a similar fashion. The current voice of the Mycon doesn't convey sufficient power.


Ok. Well, I don't necessarily think it is a good idea to mimic technological inadequacies from the 50s-60s. We have better systems for making robotic voices today. Most of the kids playing UQM today, are not even going to be familiar with robotic voices from the 50s-60s. They are just going to think that the Chmmr doesn't sound very good compared to other robotic voices they have been exposed to in other games/movies/TV shows.

Its not about us having the technology to do something other then what sounded like in the 60s and 50s. Its that the artwork in the game has that esthetic Therefor the voices were made to match.  They are suppose to smack of *Danger Danger. Will robenson!".  If i have one complaint of the new syreen voice is that im not sure if that directoin was given when making it as it was in the origional 3do one. But thats a nit pick. Watch a bit of the old star treck and you will see what i mean.

I think you guys are suffering from  the rosy retrospection bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection):

(http://orig09.deviantart.net/6a5d/f/2014/044/a/2/look_through_rose_colored_glasses_by_christian3400-d768xsn.jpg)

I love lots of things from the past, and I really don't think we should dismiss off everything from the past. But why stick to old things that we can make a lot better today?

The Chmmr is supposed to be an alien species, which is supposed to be a fusion between a technological and a crystalline lifeform. It is not supposed to be some idea of an alien species from the 60s. With a more modern and realistic robotic voice, the Chmmr might come more to life. People playing the game might feel more like they are actually communicating with a such a species. I think this is much more important than satisfying some rosy retrospection bias.

Unlike most people here, I didnt grow up with star control.   Im 30 years too young to remember the 60s. And i had a mac growing up.   I assure you, i am not affected by such bias.  I just recognize the obvious evidence in front of my face that the 50s/60s esthetic is littered throughout the game.  Obviously the star treck influence is strong.  Look at the artwork in the cutsceene slides compared to a 50s ad. Look at the star control officer uniforms.  Look at the very design of the syreen and their ships.  It even includes the 50s idea of an alien as one of the races.  These arnt accidents.

Sure. Everything is influenced from other things in the past. But that doesn't necessarily mean that our main objective should be to make it like that. Rather, we have inherent difficulties with coming up with new and original stuff, so we are prone to base our structures on previous structures. This does however not necessarily mean that it should be a goal in itself.

If you are going to modify a work of art.  You better at least match the intention... Or at least understand it

I don't necessarily agree. I think maybe you rather should focus upon optimizing the experience.

How can you optimize an experiance if you have no idea what the experience should be.  It would be like that woman who thought she could restore the jesus picture and failed

Well, you might for example make an educated guess regarding what a hybrid crystalline/technological lifeform would sound like. It certainly wouldn't sound a lot like a humanoid.

I wasn't able to make a Chmmr voice I liked yet, but I like this Mycon voice somewhat better, although I think it can be made even better:

https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3 (https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3)

That would be neat for a serious toned Ur-Quan Masters reboot.

I think you miss the point. Realisim was never a goal of SC2.  So why should things suddenly be real?  Real is not the same as "an optimised experiance" An optimised experience is one that understnds the origional intent and makes it the best it can be.

I'm really sad that the voice work for Star Control 2 made Zanthius so distressed that he had to derail this thread with a rant about how he wants the alien characters to have a barely intelligible scary robot voice in this humorous pulp sci-fi game.

What does everyone else think?  Are the voices in my mod so terrible that you'd rather recommend to others to play it with the original versions despite the questline holes and missing dialogue, or just voiceless?  Have I really wasted my time?

Nah, Zanthius just wants a dark & gritty UQM reboot.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. I think it is great that your are fixing questline holes and missing dialogue. I just felt like commenting on these things, since this was a thread about voices, and since the Chmmr and Mycon voices have annoyed me for a very long time.

Absolutely not.  I wouldn't play the game without your hard work. As you say, the game is unplayable without it. :)

Wow, two whole pages since I last posted in this thread...

But they mention them several times. I think it was consistently pronounced as five syllables?

Yes, it's internally consistent in the old Melnorme dialogue.
But while it's different in the new dialogue, the new dialogue completely replaces the old, and is also internally consistent.

I'd have had to do it differently if other aliens mentioned them too, but luckily they don't.

I don't necessarily just want to make the voices darker. It is more about that when I am talking to an alien in UQM, I want to get the feeling that I am actually talking to that alien. With several of the current voices I do not get this feeling. Especially with the Mycon, Kohr-Ah, Chmmr, and Orz.

I played SC2 many times before the voices came, and I was very disappointed when the voices came, since many of them didn't feel like they belonged to the aliens.

The Chmmr are benevolent. Why a dark voice there? *
The Mycon are nuts, as their programming limits have failed.
The Orz are just that. Orz. Nothing sinister about them. They're like a child not comprehending the limits of a new toy.
The Kohr-Ah are only sinister, because you're standing on the wrong side of the communication screen. They are very factual, and patiently explain to you why they cannot allow any other sentient species to exist besides Ur-Quan. There is nothing sinister about their goal, for them. It's purely logical to decide this way. An extreme decision, but they would likely even agree if you confronted them that you find the decision extreme. Alas you could never argue with them, that variety is actually the best defense, because then the chances of finding naturally immune beings which can help you is much higher than in a monoculture galaxy. (I doubt that if they would find another Dnyarri planet, that they'd be better prepared and would succeed in fighting off the controlling beasts.)


(we can discuss that as much as you want, and I know this is provocative, but that was always how I felt about them, and why I find sinister voices would just lead to biases which may not be present. The game was so alluring for me because the point of the other side could be made, and I could see how they can see themselves as doing the right, not a sinister, thing.)


(*actually, I always found the Chmmr character to be the most depth-lacking character in SCII. They're new, I know, but the only interest they show is defeating the Sa-Matra. There's NOTHING else about them.)

I didn't say to make the Chmmr darker. I said to make it more robotic/crystalline.


I disagree. Humans just aren't clever enough to understand them, since they are not part of Juffo-Wup:



Well, well....


Many of the large predators on Earth communicate with dark growling. That is how they communicate their power to other animals. I am not saying that a 10 meter large predator necessarily is evil. Just that it feels natural for such a creature to have a much darker voice.


Well, well... I don't necessarily think they are evil, just very alien. They are after all inter-dimensional creatures. Maybe this voice fits them a little bit better, although I am sure a creative genius would be able to come up with a much cool alien voice:

https://clyp.it/qzmcueho (https://clyp.it/qzmcueho)

Woodpeckers are also fiercly territorial, and communicate through using drums, often using metallic drums, as their pitch carries further...

there are more examples, but again, transferring Earth standards on aliens will not do.

Certainly seems better for the voices to be earth-biased, than to be human-biased, which seems to be the case now.

Also, the depth and amplitude of a voice doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Earth standards. The size of your vocal cords and lungs determine the depth and amplitude of your voice. Larger creatures have larger vocal cords and larger lungs, so they can produce deeper voices at higher amplitudes.  To think that a 10 meter large predator like the Kohr-Ah sounds like a human is not only extremely human-biased, it is also not much in accordance with our knowledge about the physics of vibrating membranes.

I am not saying that my proposal for the Kohr-Ah is perfect, but I do think it is less human-biased: https://clyp.it/ae0n0gms (https://clyp.it/ae0n0gms)


Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the Mycon evolved beyond their original programming by the Precursors to rather be more developed now?

For example, the Mycon might not be overly impressed by the voice assigned to them by the Precursors. They seem to like this voice better: https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3 (https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3)

Because screw anyone who doesn't play with subtitles enabled.  ;D

It's definitely an interesting texture but my first thought is, "Does fungus get laryngitis?"

I kid, I kid...

You ever play Mass Effect?
You could add the reverse reverb voice effect of the Hanar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqfPZcDpJ9E&t=46s) to it and clear up the raspiness a tad to make it more intelligible.
That reverse reverb would go great with the Mycon in general.

By the way, about the extra logic for the Syreen dialogue, will it also be enabled if no voice packs are installed/enabled? Because, if I understand correctly, all the other missing dialogue was already included if you didn't install the voice packs, so I think it should be the same with this.

The old PC version logic was not enabled at all.

it was in a

#ifdef NEVER

#endif

Block.

https://sourceforge.net/p/sc2/uqm/ci/master/tree/sc2/src/uqm/comm/syreen/syreenc.c#l794

So you enabled it if this voice pack is installed? But couldn't you also enable it if no voice pack is installed? Assuming of course that the missing dialog is in fact present in the core content package.

I could, yes.

Would have to edit the base content to match but it could be done.