The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

It's fair that the Arilou don't give a crap about the Androsynth, seeing as how they're just an invention that backfired (with many flaws no doubt), but what's wrong with the Syreen? Shouldn't they be just as valuable to the Arilou as us humans?

And shouldn't the VUX despise Syreen just as badly as Humans, and Androsynth for that matter, and rant about how ugly they are?

The VUX *do* hate the Syreen, I think. It just doesn't really come up. That or the Syreen are somehow empathic (shades of SC3?) or something, and the VUX buy into it (they're not the swiftest people in the galaxy).

The VUX probably don't hate the Androsynth for several reasons. First, they're Hierarchy members, willing to fight against the Humans, Syreen, and other disgusting beasts. As long as you don't look at them too often you should be fine. Second, they're not "real." I imagine there are certain biological functions the VUX find distasteful that the Androsynth just don't/didn't do. Third, the Ur-Quan would slap them around if they didn't behave.

I also seem to recall that the VUX actually tells you that you're just as ugly as the androsynth, so they do dislike the Synths... They're just afraid of the Quans... They may well hate synths, but they fear the Quans...

Also, I think there is a simple reason for the Syreen not interesting the Arilou... Instincts. i seem to recall that the Syreen tell you that they evolved in a completely different way culturally, with the farmers gaining control rather than the hunters, which gave them a much more peacful histtory. SO they wouldn't necessarily have the same set of killer instincts that we do. And the Arilou do seem fascinated by instincts.... They don't have any ya'll know...

We can reproduce, and we're not purple.  

I would imagine the VUX think Androsynth and Syreen are just as ugly as Humans.  Unless they like Blue skin more...

I also haven't seen it mentioned yet, but y'all are forgetting about the highly publicized "incident" between the VUX and Humans.  The one where the VUX hear a human captain insult their appearance.

The Arilou might just like the humans more because well, the player is a human and its creepier for them to only have an interest so much in the humans/player.

I don't think the incident has been mentioned because the VUX pretty much say it didn't matter.  All that talk about an insult was really just an excuse so they could kill you and stop looking at you.

And I figure the arilou aren't interested cause they aren't working on the synth or the syreen.  Aren't that many arilou around to begin with, and guiding the development of a culture is likely a pretty big task.  Might not be up to doing it on two, and they just chose us.

Actually!

the reason for the Arilou having special interest in Humans is intentionally left unexplained. TFB's idea was to leave them mysterious, where they might eventually come out as either evil or with otherwise immoral cause. They don't explain it (TFB), but they hint, in one of the fan-chat protocols, that the Arilou might have some 'higher purpose' for us.

In other words, they might be as nice as they are to us for their own selfish reasons yet to be discovered (SC3?)..

I seem to recall being a hint somewhere that the Syreen may have been transplanted Earthlings... (or maybe I'm watching too much Stargate... whatever.)  If this is true the Syreen might be the control group in whatever experimenth te Arilou are conducting.

dude! are there Syreen in Stagate? I shall definetly have to look closer....

I don't know if ErekLich saw it in the old TW forums, but in a similar discussion there an idea was brought up that the Human and Syreen are the same race, and one group was transferred to the another planet. The Humans had experiments done to them, while the Syreen are a control group.
When you think about it, maybe both groups had experiments done to them, but the Syreen project failed, the Human project didn't... yet...
Maybe there are more almost-Human races out there, other experiments and projects of the Arilou.

As for the Synth, we don't know if the Arilou didn't care for them at all, but after all the changes we made to our "children" maybe we ruined what the Arilou find interesting in our race.
Also, the Synth can only reproduce by cloning themselves, which mean that they don't evolve unless they'll mess with their genes, so they might again ruin anything the Arilou would try to do.


Another interesting possibility that just occurred to me- what if it's not just Humans that the Arilou are interested in, but earth as well. Our planet might be some kind of "slippery place" or just a big Arilou device, and one thing the Syreen and Synth definitely have different then Humans is that they don't live on earth.
To support this, I don't remember that the Arilou showed any real interest in the earthling colony on Vega. All they care about are the Humans on earth, and the things that effect them.

Hmmm... I sem to recall an Arilou saying something about having visited Unzervalt "much more recently(than earth)"... So they do keep a presence there as well...It's an interesting iea about earth though, they were very pleased to see it slaveshielded. Maybe it was the planet they were thinking of....

Actually, in another thread I posted an indirect connection between humans, Arilou, and Syreen. It's one of those things that might just be a coincidence or might not mean anything, but something about the idea appeals to me.

Commander Hayes:
I like to think I'm not a bigoted person, Captain, especially when it comes to allies but there is just something about those Arilou that gives me the creeps.
Talana:
The Arilou, those creepy little weasels, just plain bugged out -- vanished...
No other race refers to the Arilou as being creepy. I think it must be some kind of instinct, perhaps another phenomenon that occurs in the game: genetic memory. Some races can directly remember their genetic memories (Mycon, Ur-Quan, Dnyarri) but in some others it only manifests on an emotional level.

I don't think the Arilou are very interested in the Syreen... anymore. This doesn't mean they didn't do some experimenting in the past though.

It's a long shot, sure, but I like the idea anyway. =)

Well, that seems to be a bit thin a parallell for me. i mean, most races in the Quadrant find the Traddash obnoxious. And most people found the Chenjesu wise. And ehy, everyone thinks that the Spathi are cowards! And so on and on...

That doesn't necessarily mena that there is a strong connection between the races....

Also, keep in mind that whatever Talana says, what we hear is translated to the closest best fit... So it might be that her word has subtle differences that the translator can't figure out.

Also, creepy can mean several things, no? Whereas the commander seems to mean creepy as in omnious somehow, maybe talana means creepy more in the way a stalekr is creepy? )Ok, long stretch, but still)

guys cant you see the obvious?
its because they are trying to create a female Arilou and they dont like the color blue!

see the whole thing is that the arilou are all males and guess what happend to all the females. they contracted a strange virus which turned them into fish like things. and the Arilou word for female is orz.
i just explained why there is some much hostility between them.
oh yea and the orz tryed to turn the androsyth into male fish like things.

BioSlayer: There's so many things wrong with that theory it's not even funny, but it's good that you're thinking outside of the box. So then why do Orz starship commanders have such deep voices when they so *GO*? And why is one of the Orz commanders named *Boy* and another with the somewhat masculine title of *Loner*?

have you never heard of a women with a deep voice. maybe its something to do with the fact that they are fish. have you ever heard a real talking fish then how do you know that their voices arnt deep?
as for the name boy, ever heard of tomy boy? or maybe its a cross dressor.

also you are comparing them too humans you know not every race has the male as the dominate species.

the things you listed as wrong are so minor have anything that can put a gaping hole in my theory?

The sheer ridiculousness of your theory is a gaping hole in itself. I'm not wasting any more time on it. It doesn't even have anything to do with Arilou/Syreen/Earthling connections.

I have to admit, it did get a lot of giggles out of me though.

Anyways, I just imagine that humans *are* directly genetically linked to the Arilou, whereas the similarity of the Syreen are examples of a cosmic coincidence of incredible proportions. Talana's dialogue when you first encounter her seems to suggest just that very idea; it's a strong coincidence that was probably helped (slightly) along by Eden and Earth's almost identical mass/climate/atmosphere/etc. And yes, I am aware that even the most minute factors in an enviroment can create tremendous changes over time. Or even cancel each other out for that matter.

There are creatures in Earth's ecosystem that are genetically different, but the are very similar in nature and appearance and have a similar niche in their environment. Syreen and Humans I believe *did* evolve independently, and the similarity of their genetics as is, is incredibly coincidental, but I do think it's still a coincidence. There are still some slightly notable differences in genetic composition, after all. Such as blue skin and glowing green eyes.... (Note that even similar or near-identical phenotypes can still conceal strongly differing genotypes.)

*ponders the similarities of the VUX to the Spathi in the meantime* Both of them have one eye, both of them are mollusks (one's a clam, the other's a squid) and they're both green. They are both considered ugly by human standards ("ewww, you guys are all gross with those gooey eyeballs and stuff. Ick!") and they both use tentacle-like appendages to operate their controls.

Alright, so they're not -that- similar. But they are an example of completely independent species' evolution taking steps in similar directions.

(Btw, I don't suppose anyone has picked up on my fascination with genetics by now, have they? :P)

The Spathi and VUX might look similar, but Humans and Syreen can reproduce and create a Hybrid!
If you can call it a Hybrid at all.. After all according to science if two creatures can have fertile offspring then they're of the same species.
Sure the skin and eye color is different, but hey - we have those on earth already! White people, black people, yellow people and they all have different eye colors. The fact it, the genetic difference between the Humans and Syreen is VERY small.

Now when it comes to the Arilou, we don't know if we're genetically close to them or not. All we know is that they look a bit like us, with two eyes, one head and all that. But half the Galaxy looks like that in SC2....


So it might be a coincidence that Human and Syreen have the same DNA, it's even possible in the real world, but that chances are SOOOOOOOOO small, that it's more likely that the Ur-quan are responsible for it somehow :)

First of all :  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Welcome back BioSlayer! That is actually a funny theory, which had me smiling quite broadly. It's quite good as well. Although there is no way in hell you'l ever prove it, and there are a few things talking against it (such as the consensus on the fact that the Orz is actually one single entity from another dimension, rather than a group of beings, mutated females or not), but nevertheless, it's a good theory. Might be worth pondering for a bit.

I agree with UAF, the fact that Humans and Syreen can crossbreed is very suspect, it does imply some sort of interaction in the past... But how did you get the Quan mixed up into that?

I just said that the chances that it happened naturally are SOOOO slime that I'll believe someone who'll blame the Ur-quan for that before I'll believe it's a coincidence.

Hehe... in honour of the strangest theory I have ever heard, I have come up with my own that is just as strange.   ;D

The Orz are bisexual.  Yep, you heard me.  That's why their voice is so high when you talk to them on their bridge, but their "GO, GO" voices are so masculine.  They just can't make up their minds.

If you couldn't guess, I'm mocking the fact that BioSlayer has changed the very nature of this topic into something widely different, so for the sake of sanity, let me bring it back to its original purpose.  The humans seem more ambitious and outgoing than the Syreen.  The Arilou seem to respect this very "child-like", "curious" behaviour because it intrigues a race as wise as them.  The spontenaity (sp?) of human beings seems a lot less predictable than that of the Syreen, appealing to the curious nature of the Arilou and their scheming ways.   8)

(emphesis mine)

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

You probably mean 'hermaphroditic' as in having both genders.

It does have something to do with Arilou/Syreen/Earthling connection, they dont like the color blue.

but it realy could do with something about the fact that the syreen are telepathic.

there is no way in hell that you can disprove my theory that the arilou want OUR women.  ;D


^ment as a joke not a sexist additude^

I blame the VUX
yep the syreen are a failed attempt to change us to be less ugly they were going for green but they ran out of yellow and they got blue.

To return to the real topic of this thread:

They are sneaky little bastards and noone will ever understand their motivation until we become dense enough to go visit their planet and find it full with beautiful, blue Syreen females - knife included!

That's what I'd do if I were an Arilalilou...

Actually, 'bisexual' has two meanings. One, having some kind of ability to be both genders, either through automatic sex change, like some frogs (and thus the Velociraptors in Jurassic Park), or functional hermaphroditism (like worms). The other is the one with which I'm sure we're all familiar.

I imagine the Syreen race was also a bit more advanced than the human race, the former having reached space a bit sooner than the latter. (I could be wrong.)

Humans are so... primitive. So crude, so instinctive.
That's what fascinates the Arilou the most.

A bunch of bloody monkeys we are, sitting on our asses in their own personal zoo, doing tricks to entertain them.

I might be wrong, but I think the Syreen space cities didn't have Hyperspace ability when the Alliance first met them.
So the Syreen weren't much more advanced then the Humans.

That's right I think, there was some mention about them towing them through VUX space. But woyuldn't it have taken forever to make any of those trips in TrueSpace? That doesn't make sense, they must have had some HS capability?

IIRC, they were just trying to get SOMEWHERE, and they had been on the move for a long time (before the start of the war). So, they didn't count on having to be under attack...

Also, it could be a classic case of "Let's ignore the vastness of interstellar distances" like they do in The Empire Strikes Back, where Han takes them to Bespin from Hoth -- at sublight speeds. Of course, this would have the positive side-effect of giving Luke plenty of time to train with Yoda, since they'd be on the move for a year or more... On the other hand, I doubt that the Rebels really counted on taking a year to regroup at the rendezvous point.

Repost from the "This has been bugging me for YEARS !" thread:
I never thought about this, I always assumed that the grandchildren were Talana's genetic grandchildren, but that doesn't have to be true;  Talana and the Captain may have adopted children, or maybe they adopted some Androsynth (found after SC2), and these Androsynth adopted some human children.  Anyone know if there is dialog regarding genetic compatabilities between Syreen and human (beyond mere physical compatabilities that we know already exist)?

Yes there is. I'm pretty sure Talana mention it.
But the PonF are down at the moment, so I can't quote the text.

on a mature side.
|- the reason the arilou favor us is that our genitic code is closer to theirs then the syreens. they could be genitcaly altering us to be guinie pigs for drug testing or something like that.
|- could be that they acidently alterd us and are trying to correct this mistake.
|- maybe they are changing us to be a "super speicies" that when finish will be wise inteligent and still inicent and near indestuctible oh wait that is what the chmmr are.
|- its a fad that has yet to pass
|- we are their version of a ant farm
|- we are the first intelgent speicies they met so they been messing with us first.
|- my before mentioned theory.

Well, that's the best I could find, from Talana's conversation logs:

"Our bodies are very similar, Captain. Ha! ha! Except for... certain parts...I mean
What I am trying to say is that our SPECIES are almost identical
almost too close a match to be just a coincidence."

"Earth is the only world we know of whose variety and richness of life even comes close to Syra.
Again, like so many other things about our two species, our worlds were very much the same
at least before you began encasing yours in concrete and plastic."

And one regarding Syreen tech:
"For the next seventy five years, our people wandered at sub-light speed through the stars
looking for a new home."


BTW BioSlayer, what makes you think the Arilou are genetically similar to Humans? There are tones of Humanoid races out there, and the Arilou don't look that much like us.

(OFFTOPIC)just a question. UAF, are you an israeli? i'm not sure but that nick sounds familiar to an oldie' israeli i saw a few years ago

BioSlayer has an SC3 icon, I'd say that probably shows why he thinks the Arilou are genetically similar to Earthlings. In SC3, the Arilou reveal that they care about Earthlings 'cause they need our DNA to fix their own which is deteriorating somehow.

Yes Slylendro, I am Israeli

the arilou like humans
because i guess the humans in there dimension long ago
before the arilou had space travel the human helped them
and because of that the arilou help othe humans in othe
dimensions
that will make a good story
as for why they did not like the syreen i will think of it later

Arilou said something about changing our *smell* to hide us from THE ULTIMATE EVIL FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION (not exactly the quote but I'm to lazy to look for it).
My theory is that the Arilou are trying to make us completely invisible to the Orz and then they'll use us as an inter-dimensional version of Sa-Matra in the Orz-Arilou war.

Why wont they also use Syreen? Well, Arilou said that ignorance is our best armour, and as everyone knows humanity has more then enough ignorance in stock. Unlike the Syreen wich are intelligent and reasonable.

the arilou just changed the humans color smell
the ultimate evil they did not bother the humans
and that was the spath
and about THE ULTIMATE EVIL its another race from another star system far far far far far far far far far...............................................................................................................................................far far.....................................................far far.....................................far away
some one is out to get the spath :o

*tries to say this in the most diplomatic way possible*

Erm... captainkirk person...
Your posts read like they were written by an 8 year old (I was going to say 10 year old but even the Orz make more sense).

Could you please try to use proper capitalization and punctuation and spelling in your writing?

And if you're going to state an idea... could you use complete or at least *semi-complete* sentences?

I mean, even a broken up sentence like, "I think it was the Arilou. They do that kind of thing. Kidnap earthlings."
Is a million times more readable than...



And I just want to make sure you also know I am not in any way telling you what actual material or subject matter you choose to post or not to post. (and believe me I have some criticism on that matter as well)

And the Primat is back, with full force!

Back to the topic, maybe it's just a question of convenience? After all, one of the Arilou holes in QS open close to earth. The syreen were on the move for a while, and before that, they were in a region that (and this may be rememebring completely incorrectly on my side) wasn't as close, and maybe not as isolated as the humans?

As demonstrated by the Skiff special ability, the Arilou can get to QS and back when and where they want.
No slaveshield is going to stop these guys, and every place is just next... hole. ;)

True, just attempting to breatghe something new into this...  ;) Maybe they don't like jumping? It makes them queasy to do it too often?

I just figure that the simplest explanation (Occam's Razor?) is that the Syreen have special perks that Earthlings don't. Psychic abilities, and other unknowns.

That makes them less pure. Less crude. More complicated.
The Arilou would like to dissect a computer without any add-ons attached. No sound card, no DVD-drive, no network card, no zip disk drive, nothing. Just the happy old motherboard and processor, snip snip, doodly doo.

The Arilou, after all, do say that they admire how pure Earthlings are, how unspoiled.

It's easier to take apart and tinker with something that doesn't have these unnecessary extra components hard-wired into it. Sure, these extra components might be handy someday. But what about right now, when you're trying to tinker with the motherboard itself and find a way to make it impervious to unfriendly moisture/Orz. Better not to bother with having to unweld all them pesky add-ons.

hmm... maybe the idea was that the syreen were too great a risk because if only one of them found out, then the others would begin to smell too, because of the telepathy? So it would require far more vigilance... As it stood, the arilou didn't need to worry too much about humans as a whole when that lieutenant locked himself up in the room with the androsynth computer.