The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: certainliquids on March 03, 2020, 05:55:05 pm



Title: What, what is going on??!
Post by: certainliquids on March 03, 2020, 05:55:05 pm
Hello there!!

I am a new member but I have played ur-quan for years.
I have only just found out about this- any any other- ur-quan community.


I have played this game only ever with the base stuff, except with some different music maybe. I saw the ur-quanHD a while ago and disagreed with
(click to show/hide)
parts of it. The mega mod, however,  I did like the look of but anything that did not get modded by it was then instead used by the HD ver.  I have some burning questions here, can anyone help?

TL;DR I am a long time fan and only just found that other people exist. I have questions xd

  • For said "megamod" is there a way to have it but for anything that is not  modded to be the vanilla and not be the HD mod?
  • Can I buy the steam starcontroll 1/2 and still use all mods and stuff on those games?
  • How can I help right now? I love and have loved this game so much
  • When using any mods do I need to start a new save?
  • When it comes to the next game, can someone explain? I have seen the post that they have made on the legal stuff but I dont see a solid conclusion.

Sorry for my ignorance,


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Serosis on March 04, 2020, 03:03:30 am
MegaMod maintainer here.

1. If I am understanding your question correctly you can make MegaMod look and play exactly like normal UQM. In fact it comes like this by default and you have to turn all the extra stuff on yourself.
Except for a few things that I've had trouble with making an option for.

2. Mods for UQM are not compatible with Star Control 2 on either Steam or GOG.

3. Any suggestions, ideas, and bug reports always help.

4. Depends on what version of UQM your save is from. If it's from plain UQM or the HD-mod they will work in MegaMod. If it's from Star Control 2 on Steam/GOG then they will not.

5. Paul & Fred, the creators of Star Control 1 & 2, are under legal obligation to be quiet about the sequel to UQM for 2 years from the date of the settlement.

I hope that helps.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: certainliquids on March 04, 2020, 03:30:43 am
Yah thanks, got my answers.

On a different note, has there been any talk about the games sexist attributes and if they were gonna amend this in future games?
its the only flaw that bugs me to such an extent about uqm


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Serosis on March 04, 2020, 03:50:28 am
In the original game?

Probably not.

In the sequel, possibly.
But we don't have enough information currently to hazard a proper guess.

Star Control 2 / UQM are a product of the time they were made.
It would take a lot of work to undo the sexism... Especially with the Syreen.

Would need graphic artists, voice talent, writers, and C programmers that knew the code inside and out to make it halfway decent without stepping all over the story/lore.

But that would only work for UQM and the mods based off UQM. The games up on Steam/GOG can't be modded in that way at all.

EDIT:

Also, I was mistaken about your first question. There are some mod options on by default in the current release of the MegaMod.
This will not be the case in the next release. It will ship to look as vanilla as possible and the players can turn on options as they so desire.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: certainliquids on March 04, 2020, 04:33:40 am
Yeah sadly i know we cant fix the past- tis why we learn from it.
Will just hope for the best in the future. Thanks for filling me up to date  8)


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Schizoid on March 06, 2020, 10:53:56 am
On a different note, has there been any talk about the games sexist attributes and if they were gonna amend this in future games?
its the only flaw that bugs me to such an extent about uqm

Oh, god... Leave at least UQM alone. Everything is beautiful there as it is. Just as beautiful were the relations of our mothers and fathers. Enjoy the modern sterile world without any flirting, taste and beautiful images and leave the classics alone.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Death 999 on March 06, 2020, 02:19:01 pm
Well, it depends what you're thinking of. Changing text isn't hard if you don't mind breaking the voice acting.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Kwayne on March 11, 2020, 09:42:23 am
Why would a fan of UQM change any attribute of UQM, or even assist to such an effort?

We're not talking much about the 'sexism' in UQM, because we can understand the distinction between our entertainment and our personal politics. If anything fans of UQM have to preserve it from the vandalism and subversion of people who can't.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: darklord42 on March 12, 2020, 01:04:48 pm
Why would a fan of UQM change any attribute of UQM, or even assist to such an effort?

We're not talking much about the 'sexism' in UQM, because we can understand the distinction between our entertainment and our personal politics. If anything fans of UQM have to preserve it from the vandalism and subversion of people who can't.

I'm with you. Also I find the whitewashing of history far more offensive. We can't learn from the past if we don't have one from which to grow. It's not like uqm is malicious or was intended to say that women should be this way.  It innocently emulated the science fiction world, particularly hollywood, that proceed it.  Which is certianly open to conversation, but who are we to say that this didn't exist?


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Krulle on March 12, 2020, 03:24:13 pm
At least it was so over the top, that it was easily recognisable as "rubbish".

Dangit, I've been trying to find that placeholder syreen comscreen image from Project 6014 (??) to paste into this conversation.
I'm giving up on that.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: CelticMinstrel on March 13, 2020, 12:49:41 am
Oh, god... Leave at least UQM alone. Everything is beautiful there as it is. Just as beautiful were the relations of our mothers and fathers. Enjoy the modern sterile world without any flirting, taste and beautiful images and leave the classics alone.
I could make all sorts of observations about the in(s)anity of your comments here, but… I don't think anyone's gonna be modding UQM to remove the sexism. A full-fledged remake however, with an all-new engine and graphics and voices and stuff, would be a whole other story.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Kwayne on March 13, 2020, 10:18:24 am
Modders aside, It's much more likely that P&F would bend the knee and force some dumb, woke empowerment story into the Syreen part of Star Control lore, or undo the influence of golden age pulp sci-fi aesthetics and un-sexualize a race of space succubi. If and when that happens, remind me to quote Talana to them:

"In case you were wondering about me... don't worry. I'm doing fine!
In fact, I just talked with the designers and they have assured me
that the sequel will be all about me! Isn't that great!
They said they wanted to move away from the warrior mythos
and expand more into the healer cycle.
This may be my big chance!
The only thing I'm not sure about is the new costume they want me to wear.
They said this one would be REALLY revealing."


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Schizoid on March 13, 2020, 01:36:18 pm
Oh, god... Leave at least UQM alone. Everything is beautiful there as it is. Just as beautiful were the relations of our mothers and fathers. Enjoy the modern sterile world without any flirting, taste and beautiful images and leave the classics alone.
I could make all sorts of observations about the in(s)anity of your comments here, but… I don't think anyone's gonna be modding UQM to remove the sexism. A full-fledged remake however, with an all-new engine and graphics and voices and stuff, would be a whole other story.
Thanks for that, otherwise I already started to worry. #sarcasm

Obviously, no one will do this. My comment was a cry of the soul about the situation in the world as a whole, when some begin to have complaints even to such things as UQM. Although some of the nuances of my message could be lost when translating into English.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: CelticMinstrel on March 13, 2020, 07:20:05 pm
…what the heck? Forget I ever said anything. There's something fundamentally wrong with both of your viewpoints that I can't be bothered to grapple with.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Kwayne on March 16, 2020, 11:11:04 am
Nah, you're just rude and condescending for no good reason.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: CelticMinstrel on March 19, 2020, 04:15:13 am
Well, you were the first one to say something rude and dumb and condescending, but anyway...


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Kwayne on March 19, 2020, 08:32:29 am
I believe I've said no such thing. Can you elaborate as to why you think so?


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Death 999 on March 19, 2020, 04:45:41 pm
Quite. I was considering mod action on this (https://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7784.msg80781#msg80781), but nothing else in thread.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Talonious on April 21, 2020, 06:43:57 pm
The Syreen outfit is a little over the top. The game even hangs a lampshade on that fact by Talana noting if asked that it's functional...and that she might be willing to show you why it's so functional, knife included.

One way I try to think about it is that the Syreen as a race are nearly extinct due to the devastation of their home world and it's probably required them to make some cultural adjustments as a result to increase the species population. Another thing to consider is that, if you can get past the costume, the Syreen are portrayed as total bad***es in the game. They absolutely eviscerate the Mycon for instance.

There's a fine line between fan-service and blatant sexism and where that line is drawn is YMMV by person.

Part of it is also that the entire galaxy is effectively a "world of hats" tvtrope. You could just as easily call the Shofixti racist representations of the Japanese. Or consider the Druuge to be a snarky take on ultra-capitalists as another example on one end of the spectrum whereas the Pkunk are clearly stoner hippies on the other side of the spectrum.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: PRH on April 22, 2020, 11:20:07 am
One way I try to think about it is that the Syreen as a race are nearly extinct due to the devastation of their home world and it's probably required them to make some cultural adjustments as a result to increase the species population.

The dialogue also implied that the Syreen have never gotten as sexually hung-up as the Earthlings did, so they didn't even have many nudity taboos in the first place (if any at all).

Another thing to consider is that, if you can get past the costume, the Syreen are portrayed as total bad***es in the game. They absolutely eviscerate the Mycon for instance.

Absolutely. Both Hayes and Talana mention that there were many Earthlings that did react to the Syreen like a stereotypical horny male would, and then found out that there was much more to the Syreen than shallow fanservice. ;)

There's a fine line between fan-service and blatant sexism and where that line is drawn is YMMV by person.

Again, I agree. Though, in defense of UQM, it parodies the sexist tropes rather than playing them straight - unlike, say, Star Trek TOS. And there is one thing UQM really excelled at, and that was giving all aliens - the Syreen included - real character.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Krulle on April 22, 2020, 02:52:00 pm
One also needs to remember that the Syreen have, due to the destruction of their homeworld, and basically most survivors being part of the female space force which had just been set up (guessing to celebrate, they sent all members of female space force up at the same time), the few females have to compete for the few men.

Although this argument fails now, a generation later, as the new births should provide 50/50 again.
But it may leave a culture influence, like advertising your goods, which doesn't leave as quick as the percentage of males replenishes.

But then, that's speculation., as it's nowhere hinted at in-game.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Death 999 on April 27, 2020, 02:20:04 pm
If many reproduced artifically with each other rather than involving men, there could still be a population imbalance.


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Kwayne on April 28, 2020, 10:25:12 am
I generally prefer non-answers to questions addressing superficialities, unless it's a sensitive topic (like beauty is to VUX) with the potential of affecting the events of the adventure.

It's never good to explain things like Syreen attire beyond need. It's a tried and proven way to dispel magic from worldbuilding, and I'm not sure if Star Control would benefit from that. I'm perfectly fine with the answer that they just like it that way, perhaps even deliberately avoiding an all encompassing, tedious detailing of historic and cultural evolution. In practice, while developing a sequel to UQM, I feel a good answer might read like "Damn, son, this breastplate is the product of thousands of years of Syreen military tradition. How rude of you to question that!" ... or something like that. Then you're free to make further theories as to what kind of military tradition the Syreen captain is talking about. (I presume it's something where the psychic abilities of the Syreen factor in greatly, even without amplifying technology. Imagine medieval warfare with battle hypnosis involving the uncovered breast as a visual catalyst ... or don't. It doesn't matter really.)


Title: Re: What, what is going on??!
Post by: Tiberian on May 09, 2020, 08:47:50 am
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