The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Dillrat on June 22, 2003, 08:52:16 pm

Title: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Dillrat on June 22, 2003, 08:52:16 pm
Hello.. I have been watchign the progress of UQM since V 0.1 was released.  If i knew that i could have downloaded a playable version of the 3do version i would have stopped myself from buying the game and 3do :P

Anyways... I was curious how you fans of SC2 or UQM like SC3?  I never really bothered to play it (dont know why seeing how i loved SC2) but i heard it wasnt well received.  How would you guys rate the game and what were some of the strengths and weeknesses that this game had?  Did the story mesh well with the SC2 story?

Thanks for your input... figured id ask you guys here .. seems to be a nice community.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Death 999 on June 22, 2003, 11:42:59 pm
The average response around here is two stars out of five.
Some people liked it. Some thought it was OK and would not have been thought of badly if it hadn't been the sequel of the much better SC2; others (myself included) thought that it was a badly constructed waste of time, with few to no redeeming features.

Story: ho hum. None of the mystery of SC2 is present. Too much wrapped up, in all-too-simple (edit: and insultingly stupid) ways. Some things are terribly confusing. Like, the Ur-Quan are on your side! And you don't even need to go through an elaborate quest to get this to happen!

Game Balance: uuuuuugggggghhhh. INSANE. Say no more.

Game play: Boring. Go to planets, wait while they gather fuel. Wait wait wait, wait for ICOM to tell you what to do next. Never get into a situation where you are trapped -- there is always a way out (except in melee). Unless you run out of fuel, then you're DOOMED. Your ship is not customizable, and its crew must be entirely composed of Humans.
Map was confusing due to:
lack of constellations for grouping
lack of zoom
only an approximation of getting it to sit still
inability to fix two stars and let the map rotate around THEM
Most enemies can be brought onto your side without a fight. Others will fight you as a sort of challenge-at-the-gate.
Some ships are incorrectly programmed so that they do not do what they are supposed to do (the Vyro-Ingo shield does not block damage; the harika bolo missiles will hit its nose if you are flying fast enough backwards, etc)

Lastly, and most cripplingly, the game is built on an event engine in which it is very easy to get into a state in which nothing ever happens again. Like, early on, you're supposed to be told how to talk to the Daktaklakpak. For some reason or other, in my game, I was never told. I cannot win because I cannot talk to them.
There are a lot of places that similar things can occur. one time I had gathered the antimatter from the surface of all ten rainbow worlds in the area... and yet... I was repeatedly told to go and gather the antimatter from the rainbow worlds. I could go to each one and show you "look! a planet lander pod!"
Eh, whatever.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Dillrat on June 23, 2003, 12:49:45 am
TFB didnt design SC3 correct?  I think that if my SC info is up to date they sold the name and or rights to teh SC universe to accolade or another publisher.  Maybe that was teh downfall of the game then..

Thats too bad... i was scouting around for a copy of it just to toy around.... if its that buggy (giving you quests but no end to them even when you complete them) maybe i wont waste my time... Maybe ill just play SC2 again without my 3do guide .. bit of a challenge :(

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Death 999 on June 23, 2003, 02:04:23 am
Well, SOMETIMES the quests work... and sometimes they don't. The first time I played, I had no trouble getting the translation device.

Also, on my version, if you agreed to join the ploxis, the screen turned gray and displayed the message: "You join the Ploxis. Then you die." in a nondescript font in the upper left hand corner, and the program exited.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Shiver on June 23, 2003, 03:19:44 am
Dillrat, har har har. That's a great nickname there.

Anyway, don't pay more than 5 dollars for the game if you have to. It's somewhat entertaining but also an ugly stain on the Star Control name.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Chad on June 23, 2003, 06:42:50 am
TFB didnt design SC3 correct?  I think that if my SC info is up to date they sold the name and or rights to teh SC universe to accolade or another publisher.

Not going into too much detail, but I think it was more like TFB quit Accolade and left "Star Control" behind with them because they didn't own the rights... the publisher (Accolade) did.  When Accolade wanted another Star Control game (i.e. part 3) they went to another developer for it (Legend Ent).  I guess because TFB was working exclusively for Crystal Dynamics at the time... ?  Don't quote me on this of course....

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Mag on June 23, 2003, 09:46:36 am
Star control 3 was just very underwhelming i guess

I saved up and bought it as soon as it came out

it just wasn't as good

form what i can remember one of the things about it thatmade it not as good was that the warp bubble technology allowed you to jump from one star to the next instantly

that was kind of dumb since the exploration part of Star control 2 was one of the best things about it

but yeah it wasn't as good... and i have my original box for SC2 up on a shelf in my room, with lovely 5 1/4 inch disks, and the SC3 box is somewhere in a cupboard at my parents house.. where it shall most likely remain

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: NECRO-99 on June 23, 2003, 12:04:59 pm
The part of the SC3 I enjoy most is starting colonies. I'm such a wanderluster (as I've noted in previous posts) and its always a little rush to see if a specific solar system has anything good in it.
It lacked horribly in gameplay and plot yes, and the one thing I REALLY wanted to do that you couldn't in SC2 either: Planetary Bombardment. SC2/UQM: you cant because they have infinite ships.
SC3: you cant because...uh...because you CANT, damnit! First time I met the Ktang, I could've nuked their sorry carcasses to the moon. But wait, I suppose the "League of Sentiment Races" (har har har) wouldn't like that too much. They let you blow up enemy craft, but if you're jumped by a neutral (Vyro-Ingo) they complain because "you mercilessly attacked a sentient lifeform, you evil thing you!" This, and the League allows the Orz to pop holes in the Supox (it's SO OBVIOUS IT'S THEM!) but if you try ONE false move? Gone. Removed of command. Oh, don't lie to the Owa either, you lose if you do. :P The Arilou turn on you too, which pisses me off to no end. Bastards wanted us for genetic cattle...*growl*
That, and the Androsynth were never found. Only mentioned. Again. *sigh*

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Culture20 on June 24, 2003, 01:51:19 am
I know I've said this elsewhere on this board, but it bears repeating:
Some parts of SC3 were just as good as parts of SC2;  Dialog for some races (Spathi, notably) was blatantly identical to dialog from SC2.  Therefore, it was good dialog, but it wasn't original. ;)

In terms of meshing with the SC2 plot:  the biginning sequence of SC3 rewrote the ending sequence of SC2, so it doesn't mesh at all.  If you're familiar with 1980's toys/cartoons, the comparison between SC2 and SC3 might be analogous to the difference between Transformers and Go-Bots; one was a blatant attempt to feed off of the popularity of the other, but only one was a success.  Another possible analogy:  SC3 is more like a Spin-off than it is a Sequal.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Sentosa on June 24, 2003, 10:51:38 am
Well, 6+ years ago, after I finished SC2... I played SC3. I didn't know it was created by different people, and I didn't know much about what is a good game/story, and what is not-so-good one.

I played it and enjoyed it.

I even remembered I put Chmmr to sleep forever (or something) and it was game over for me. Ah it was fun.

If you got a little money (I'm sure it's not THAT expensive anymore), and need some entertainment... I suggest you try it anyway.

Of course, I prefer SC2, so if you haven't finished SC2, finish it first.

Play SC3 only if you have extra time or if you become extremely bored.

But it is true the story and ending are not that memorable compared to SC2's.

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on June 25, 2003, 04:11:42 am
The thing I hate most about SC3 is that half of the story is taken directly from SC2... well yeah I know it's a sequel but that's not what I mean... examples:
- You have put Mrnhnhmhn and Chenjesu back togather again
- The Utwig broke their Ultron (again)
- There's a doctrinal conflict between Kser-Za and Kohr-Ah (again, altough it doesn't make sense, the winner of the original Doctrinal War was going to take the Sa-Matra... but there is no Sa-Matra anymore!!! But actually I didn't pay much attention to this one. I remember that there was something about Dynarri taking control of some Ur-Quan (...again...) and making them think that they are Kohr-Ah(?!?!???).... Bah! If someone knows what was going on, then please explain...)

Or historical events.... Every time you ask about a historical event a character says something like "well YOU went there.... YOU did this.. and YOU did that"
Makes you feel like some Umgah have clonked you on the head causing amnesia.

Another thing is that you have to go totally by the script during dialogs. It was already mentioned. If you lie to the Owa - Game Over. Specially frustrating when you press spacebar several times (one time to many) to go by all the "blah blah blah" and then discover that spacebar in SC3 also confirms the selection of the thing you want to say, and that the Game Over Response was selected by default

And they spoiled the Creepy Arilou Plot. And please dont tell me that DNA harvesting is sooooooo bad. If Arilou would say something like "Hello Hunams! We need your DNA or we're gonna die. Please help us" then the hunams would just go and donate their DNA just like we donate blood today. The only thing that's bad is that they didn't ask, but that's not really a thing that would make me grab an AK-47 gun and fire at the closest Arilou yelling "Eat hot plasma death you treacherous Saucer Man From Mars!!!!"
.... They ruined it....

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: NECRO-99 on June 25, 2003, 11:33:31 am
   The other thing I failed to mention that is stupid as hell and poses a major plot hole: The Orz = Eternal One Summoning Device!? What the hell is that? They call the Heralds. Right.  
:P What a crock of crap!  :P

  The Orz, though quite unintelligible at times, have the tendency to babble about things, so you think they would've mentioned it here and there. I really didn't get why they turned on you anyway. Something to do with we wouldn't *slide* with them to *below* so they have to kill us now. Ugh. And no mention of the Androsynth. I mean, its like the great, concerned-for-all-beings League just ignores little details like the fact that an entire species is missing. Nothing big, y'know. I would wager that if Humans found the Androsynth in their Orz prison, the 'synth would probably be quite happy to see them. I know I would. Who knows what those evil Orz do to my poor bretheren? There's another point. The Orz said they were part way into our dimension. Is it me, or did they get uglier from SC2 to SC3? In 2 they were rather amusing looking, but 3 they took on a bit of a demonic shade. I'd hate to see what they look like fully. My poor Androsynth countrymen...

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Dwight_Trammel on June 25, 2003, 09:43:33 pm  
Check this link, there are some negative sides of the game. Personally, I think that sc3 sucks (I'm very big fan of sc2).

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Krogoth255 on June 26, 2003, 12:06:55 am
IHMO, prehaps the only redeeming part of plot of SC3 is one of the potental explaination of disapperance of Precousers and some of back story of races they were involued in, the real function of the Rainbow Worlds and lastly the enities (Elernal Ones) whom are responiblity for forced dissappearance of the Precousers devolueing themselves into lizard-cows

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Nic. on June 26, 2003, 01:19:25 am
And IMHO, their explanations were the worst part of the game.  (opinions, everyone's got at least one...  :) )

Mmrnmhrm?  Built by the Precursors.  Mycon?  Built by the Precursors.  It's as though they were used as deus ex machina for all the gooey backstory bits from SC2; and I remember thinking as I was playing that this was highly unimaginative from a plot perspective.  My opinion only lowered as the game progressed.

It also creates an enormous plot hole: If both races lived in a region of space presumably occupied by the Sentient Millieu (as evidenced by their proximity to old Taalo space), why were they not members?  They should have been sentient by the time the Millieu was at its heights, and they were obviously capable of space travel, even before they "ascended" (what with being terraforming biots and all)..

As for the Eternal Ones: so the way to win the game is to keep Cthulu from eating us all, but to do it in a manner that doesn't hurt anybody, and doesn't hurt Cthulu either?  Yawn.

It was said on these forums before; SC3 is best relegated to the same bin as "fan-fiction", it's a sub-par game whose plot often contradicts and almost completely wrecks the "Star Control Story." (Arilou as DNA farmers?!  The Hack SciFi Writers Guild just called, you've won their lifetime achievement award!)  Hopefully the Timewarp project can come up with an alternate plot continuation that does SC2/UQM some justice.

Non-sequitur:  Has the Timewarp project given any consideration to re-christening itself "UQM 2"??

Title: Re: Star Control 3 questions...
Post by: Diamon on June 29, 2003, 10:17:26 am
   Yes, the Precursor 'Solution' was interesting and unique for SC3.  The Owa were kind of spiffy too, visibly anyway.  The Doog were cool as far as a storyline and character type.  Their ship was mean too!  The planet lander thingy was awful.  The story was a bore.  The ending was very very so-so.  And I wanted to kill every single Daktaklakpak I could get my hands on, but NoooOOooo, I needed to *understand* them!  Gah.  The Arilou subplot was interesting but not very good, and I think the Orz section had some seriously fun potential (that they never followed up on; some day I still want to *slip* to the *pretty space* and *enjoy the sauce*!  Or even *smell* *many colors*...), but overall the story was a bore, with ICOM leading you around by the nose.  Nothing was sensible.  I felt little sense of connection to the characters.  

  When the Pkunk finally got 'gobbled up' by the Yehat in SC2, I was totally bummed, I loved those birds!  When the Ur-Quan went bad in SC3 I only regretted the loss of an otherwise useful planet.  I never did figure out what they were up to.  I won the game eventually, but only to have closure on it.  I didn't have all that much fun.  :(  It wasn't strictly *bad*, but I didn't much like it.

    Many thanks to all the marvellous folks who made the TFB SC2 port possible, I rather enjoyed playing it, and am sure I will enjoy it again in the future.  :)  There's so much fun to be had there!