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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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1  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod on: May 04, 2012, 05:13:37 pm
I think it depends on how much of a threat Lurg and co. end up being. The Alliance isn't in the best shape after fighting two wars in recent memory and if their borders are immediately pounded by superior numbers, they could not only have much bigger problems to deal with, but they could find that this area you're in is now the heart of new Lurg space. So sending ships to search for you may be incredibly problematic and, while you're a super great guy and all, diverting a massive fleet to break through their numbers and go to a planet that is probably heavily defended in and of itself is not a very good strategic move as it's a high risk, low reward scenario that leaves their defenses weakened. Thus, while the Alliance is diverting ships to this attack, the Lurg could be making serious inroads into Alliance territory.

But regardless, you could always add a plot point that makes it seem more likely that you died - The Lurg could collect some of the space debris from your ship and dump it somewhere else as a decoy, they could tow the Precursor ship out of there and force you to work on it elsewhere so when the Alliance sends ships to look for you all they find is the debris of your ship, etc.
2  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Project 6014 – Ur-Quan Masters mod on: May 03, 2012, 06:52:56 am
I can't wait to find out how Zelnick gets out alive!  Arilou jumping in and saving them?  Orz pulling them *below* (caring for the humans more than the Shofixti)?  Or maybe...

Personally, I'd love to see him not get out of it... at least not right away. Instead, the Lurg could capture him and force him to use his expertise to help them get that Precursor ship operational. After years of imprisonment and forced capitulation the badly damaged ship is finally operational and ready to be launched against the Alliance, but the good captain had been secretly planning for this day and manages to commandeer and escape on the ship. He returns to the people who thought him dead (including a certain love interest) and just in time because the war is already fully under way and it has not been going well.

Anyway, that's just my own fantasy scenario. It would allow for the recreation of the fish out of water aspect of Star Control II as the captain catches up with everything that has happened during his imprisonment and it would allow you, as the player to skip the early stages of the war and instead jump right into the action.
3  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: A Modest Proposal on: July 05, 2004, 06:01:19 am
Personally I think the new players should just start off as standard (weak cyborg) and work their way up like the rest of us. I worked very hard since a young child to master SCI melee and even with the 7 hierarchy ships I can defeat the entire alliance fleet (Arilou included) with 2 or 3 ships to spare (i usually have 4 to 5 alliance ships against the hierarchy though ). So the Arilou isn't as hard as you think, especially when you consider that there are SCII ships like the Chmmr that can destroy them in seconds. To me the Arilou is the hardest ship out there and the others you mentioned are much easier but to be perfectly honest I would like a harder Arilou AI. I do so much better with the ship than the computer does at it's best. If you play enough you can guess it's movements and know how to counter them. They're obvious things like aiming your weapon at it to keep at bay (which was already pointed out) and I hate that they don't use the planet to their benefit. To me that's their strongest weapon. A favorite tactic of mine used to be to camp out by a planet, wait for the enemy to come after me, and as they're passing (assuming they're smart enough not to crash) jump out and blast them before blinking away.

Heck if you work hard enough even an Ilwrath can defeat them but it is such a pain. In SCI there was a mission in campaign mode where it informed you that they had discovered that certain ships were better at certain other ships. Basically they expected you to use the Ilwrath against the Arilou and another hierarchy ship against an alliance one. Well let me tell you anyone who thinks the Ilwrath has more of an advantage against the Arilou than the Umgah are sadly mistaken but it's possible to do with some work. The joy of Star Control, to me, was mastering each ship and being the best I could be with each, even trying silly things like defeating a Yehat with a Mycon (which I did, thank you very much - it's a lot of luck and depends on you getting a gravity whip and having a good hour or so to waste lol). *shrugs* Maybe it's just me but being able to actually beat that ship which is so hard you're trying to convince people to tone it down is a lot of fun - goals = good.  Smiley
4  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Conversation with subtitles on: December 30, 2002, 03:51:40 am

And all I did was tell you that I feel differently than him about that.  You didn't think I was talking about you, did you?  Smiley

Well the thing about that is that if he didn't think he could do it, it probably won't be done and I figured you understood that, so you probably misunderstood me for having that idea myself. Ah but whatever. As long as I'm not the only one who can understand my twisted way of viewing the world I'm happy.  Grin
5  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Conversation with subtitles on: December 30, 2002, 01:24:35 am
I feel quite the opposite.  I figure someone will eventually volunteer to do lip-syncing!
Really, I think by allowing you to press a key to skip to the next line and recording the timestamp, you could sync pretty good, probably near perfect.
And we could probably get pretty good results without any timestamp info by making sure the subtitles pass at the appropriate rate so that they end at the same time as the speech.

Speaking of voice/caption syncing problems, has anyone seen Starfox Adventures?  With some of the unimportant NPC's, they just play the voice and let you advance the caption manually with the A button. (Surprisingly, it's still lip-synced)  And in some of the cutscenes, the captions and voice are way off in timing and often don't quite say the same thing.

So at least it will be better than that.

What is there to disagree about? All I did is tell you what a mod said, not give my personal opnion on the situation.
6  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Conversation with subtitles on: December 29, 2002, 12:11:38 pm
A mod said awhile ago, that he doubts they'd ever get the two to match up prefectly. But, I'm pretty sure they'll be able to do much better then how it is now.
7  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: A horrifying SC2 story! on: December 29, 2002, 12:00:45 pm
ebay is a SC fan's salvation.
I found a good condition SC 1+2 combo with everything a while ago for cheap. (got my dad addicted to ebay too, go me)

Why do you keep bringing old threads back up?
8  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: What question about SC do you most want answer on: December 29, 2002, 11:57:34 am
Does TFB endorse the Accolade SC3 plot?
We've never really heard from them as far as THEIR opinions on SC3. (Paul, Fred, that's your cue! Answer, dammit!)

All they said, so far, about that was that it wasn't what they had in mind.


Fight the Mycon for about 12 rounds of the traveling ship will get the *everything story*, except for who "the creator" is...

And my question: How exactly does your Dynarri know the weaknesses of the Sa-Matra so it can tell you how to attack it?

Well that wasn't my question, it was an answer to someone elses. And what that had to do with the Umgah saying that the Mycon were created by someone is beyond me (they don't tell you that if you keep fighting them).

As for your question, the Dynarri know that because they found the Sa-Matra and the Ur-Quan took control over it after the slave-revolt.
9  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 13, 2002, 03:02:40 pm
Yeah ZeroArmy, that's kind of what I meant yesterday when I said:

Speculation on them being in other dimesions, just as likely.

Oh sorry, I must've read past that.

Oh, and about the excessive quoting.  Sorry about that.  I think it's obvious I love to analyze things to death (why else would I be on a forum?),  I mean, after all, I am the guy who had made an attempt at an Orz dictionary 8 years ago.


heh, don't feel bad I'm the king of quotes. Wink But, anyway, at least you don't quote things incorrectly (remember the Ultron thing?).  Grin


Yep, seems that *nggn* aren't the Orz. You have me convinced. Smiley

Happy days and jubilation! My endless ranting and re-reading things, from the game, finally payed off!   Wink

I think that Taalo didn't *slide* to Orz's dimension but something else. When Orz arrived to truespace they found about Taalo.

Oh ok, I wasn't sure exactly what you meant before. Anyway, it makes sense, but I still don't get that what they mean by *time tricks.* It seems as though it would mean that the Taalo did something to them at one point or another and since the Taalo aren't in True-space anymore, it would have to mean that it happened in another dimension. Then again the Orz aren't known for making complete sense, so who knows.  :-/
10  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 13, 2002, 12:02:18 pm
Ah the conversation turned to alien speech.  :-/ I always hated talking about it as it seemed that some get too sucked into it for my taste (ie: the translater does so and so therefor it should've put a better world in the place of *smell*). To me it's less of a translater and more of a script, it doesn't have to make complete sense (as long as it explains the game well enough, like it does, it's fine by me). Anyway, that said, I'm not even going to bother trying to respond, but I do have something new regarding "easy places" PsiPhi....

I was talking to the Arilou again and I realized something new. They said that there is only one naturally accuring portal from "hyperspace to quasi-space." So I was thinking that maybe there were 9 other, natural portals, which are based in different dimensions and that those are the Arilou's easy places. Ah well. I doubt we'll ever fully understand what an easy place is (besides that one time the Arilou never bring it up again).  :-/
11  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 12, 2002, 02:12:46 pm

I always took "easy place" to mean a natural occurence of interdimensional fatigue, that being the Quasi-space portal that appears for 3 days starting on the 17th of each month.

See that's what I was thinking, but the Arilou said that there is only one natural occuring portal to Quasi-space, while they said that there were 10 total "easy places."

Frankly, I think the Nggn are like that little pixie the Pkunk says sits on your shoulder and makes funny faces at him ... it's just something quirky added to the game to enhance the fact that these are aliens to which you are speaking.

lol. Call me crazy, but I like the idea of the *Nnngn* being pixies.  Grin

Nggn are not Orz.  The Arilou's attitude towards Nggn is quite jovial and relaxed.  Hell, he releases them after he catches them, like it is some kind of game.  Maybe its the Arilou version of Frungy.  I don't know.  I'm not going to kill myself trying to read into something that was mentioned once as an obvious joke.  By contrast, the Arilou attitude towards Orz is quite cautious and unfriendly.

It's funny you say that because, while editing my post above yours, I was thinking that it maybe the Arilou's version of Frungy. And probably wasn't thought out in detail, like Frungy probably wasn't.

If you make that connection, then you may as well start making outlandish connections like the Ultron is just a hyperwave receiver/converter and someone like the Umgah are behind some other farcical prank to mislead the Utwig culture.  Or that the Spathi Evil Ones are really just the last of the ZoqFotPik's Zebranky, that were transported by the Umgah to Spathiwa for a few laughs.  Actually, I'd believe THAT before I'd ever believe that the Orz are the Nggn, simply because they grunt "Nnnngggaaahhhh" whenever they are mad.But if you choose to believe that, well, I've got a real good deal for you on this powerful artifact called the Trident of Wimbli.


Aww, how cute, you're turning into a ranting maniac, just like me. Wink
12  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 12, 2002, 01:28:41 pm

Arilou talking about *Nggn* are flying around in hyperspace. They don't reveal you much, because it's arilou policy to protect humans from too much information. After you reach their homeworld, they decide to tell you more.

Well that could be so, but it seems to be that the hyperspace Arilou aren't trying to hold anymore information then those at their homeworld (according to the base commander they didn't give us any information before because we were too busy fighting to ask). And even if they were trying to why wouldn't they simply tell us about the Orz so we could avoid them? I mean it's one thing to not tell us about creatures from another dimension, that way we won't even try to find them, but it's another thing when someone, who the Arilou think might harm us, enter our space.

EDIT: Ok I opened up a old saved game (one before I ever talked to the Arilou) and flew up to their space. After asking "I am confused about our relationship. Please elaborate" several times, (this is to the hyperspace Arilou) they said this...

"You know, we never revealed where in the galaxy one could find our homeworld. There was a good reason. We are not from your space, or your... *time*. Some of your more broad thinkers refer to such realms as other dimensions. Though trivialized, this is a suitable metaphor for your intellect.
Perhaps you know of the Orz. Like us, they are dimensional travellers but that is where our similarity ends. Do not trust the Orz, my Human Captain. They are dangerous. But as to your question... our relationship. To call our interaction with your kind an experiment would be much too simple and impersonal. Let us just say that we have a vested interest in your... development. You are one of our... extended family, just as other sentients in other dimensions have their extended families. We are proud of you as you would be of your children, and some day well, I have said too much already."

Notice the part that I bolded. The Arilou have no problem calling the Orz by their name there, (which means your idea as to why is voided) so why would they call them the *Nnngn* later?

Orz weren't in *heavy space* 22k years ago, so they must have slid to taalo's new dimension, and met them there.

Did you read what I said? I was saying that the Taalo entered the Orz's dimension themselves (in a post before I explained why I thought the Taalo could enter quasi-space when they met the Milieu). There was no way the Orz could've dragged the Taalo into their dimension 22 thousand years ago. For one they'd have to be friends with the Taalo to save them from the Ur-Quan (the Orz only make alliances when it suits them) and they'd have to KNOW about this space (remember they didn't even know it exsisted until the Androsynth's experements).
13  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 12, 2002, 11:01:19 am
Ah another day went by and so did the discussion (PsiPhi knows what I mean Wink ). Anyway, I have a few extra points to add...

1. For those of you who think the Orz and *Nggn* are one in the same can you explain to me why the Arilou would say that they were trying to catch the *Nggn* and then tell us not to trust the Orz? Is it just me or does it seem a little silly for them to call the Orz two different things?

2. Does anyone know what exactly an *easy place* is? I went to the Arilou, to check to see what they said about the *Nggn,* again, and after asking why they are in this area of space, they said that this is an *easy place.* Then if you ask why they are in this *easy place* they say it's to catch *Nggn.* So, I figured instead of arguing about the *Nggn* and Orz thing we could try and figure out what it is because if it's just referring to the Arilou's sphere of influence then they can't be the Orz.

3. And for three we move on to the Taalo. The conversation was shut down by what Paul and Fred said so I thought it best to explain why I think they're alive (it seemed people were still finding it hard believe it).

Ok well let's pretend Fred and Paul didn't say the Taalo were alive. Now, before this statement, it was believed, by most, that the Taalo weren't alive even though the Orz brought them up in conversation. This was of course because the Orz talk in present tense. But, the thing is that even if the Orz can't understand time, and all this *sliding* and playing *time tricks* on them may have happened 22 thousand years ago, doesn't it stand to reason that they're still alive now? After all, everyone was saying that they agreed with what the Orz said, but they didn't think they could understand time. So, anyway, by what the Orz said, the Taalo escaped the Ur-Quan attack and *slide* into another dimension. Then, (the following is my view on what happened) being that the Taalo were more advanced then the Chenjesu and were able to annoy the Orz by playing *tricks* on them (they must've been much stronger then the Orz) they should've easily been able to survive 20 thousand more years.
14  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 11, 2002, 04:57:43 pm
First, I just want to say that I'm a little upset that I missed out on this topic for so long.

Next, to ZeroArmy, you are without a doubt the most prolific writer on this forum.  That's not a criticism, just an observation, because I see you every where and you are all over this forum.

I knew someone would bring this up sooner or later. Not too long ago I realized I had over 50 posts and so I looked around and I saw that I had more then anyone else. After which, I decided to try and cut back, but there are some topics which I can't help but reply to. *Sigh* I've never ever had the most posts in a forum before, but I guess that SC is a more important topic, to me, then I thought it was.  :-/

What is killing me is that earlier you made a few points that I was going to argue against, like the Chmmr being the "rocks awakened" and the "Utwig bomb" destroyed the Sa-Matra, not the Ultron, but others beat me to it.

Well I said the Taalo were the rocks awakened, but it was really the Chmmr (it says shinny rocks are awaked my an explosion of light) and yeah I made a mistake with a Ultron (again sorry if I confused anyone). When I used to make replies in forums, which was a long time ago, I never replied so much so I guess I'm not used to it. Anyway, I know how you feel. I'm normally only on at night, since I work during the day, and so I find a lot of topics replied to with the things I wanted to say.

Anyway, I totally agree with you about keeping SCIII out of this topic field.  There are other topics that are specifically intended for discussions of that game.

Thank you for that (people were getting on my nerves).

While I'm on the topic of races from the Sentient Milieu.  We are told that the Yuli and Drall (and Taalo) were destroyed by the mind controlled Ur-Quan and that the Foz were slave shielded by the Kzer-Za, which means they could still exist, somewhere.  The Kohr-Ah cleansed the Yuptar, but the Mael-Num escaped after they used THE WORDS and the Kzer-Za showed up in time and provided a distraction for them.
Now, my point is ... is there any one out there that DOES NOT believe that the Melnorme ARE the old Mael-num race that escaped?!  Am I wrong, but were the Mael-num described to have one large eye? ... not that that's unique given the Spathi and VUX.
  Ah, I should take my own advice and discuss this somewhere else (that is if it doesn't already exist as a topic).

Yeah I think everyone thinks that the Mael-Num and the Melnorme are one in the same. Fred and Paul spent the entire game hinting that they were and, personally, I doubt they'd do all that as a sick joke to trick you. But then who knows.  Wink

All these explanations I have read seemed too contrived OR based too much on SCIII, which like I have said earlier, I am completely ignoring in this topic.
  Don't get me wrong, your ideas are interesting, but a lot have serious flaws in them.  You should admit when you are making a lot of speculation (like ZeroArmy admitting "this one is a little out there").
  All this arguing back and forth about what the Orz real intent seems to me like arguing over what God likes in his tea, that is if he even drinks tea, or even drinks, or even exists at all.  You can not prove it to me one way or the other through any thing other that pure speculation.  And that's no proof at all.

I completely agree. A few theories are one thing, but when you find someone saying you're wrong because their theory is better, you find yourself being forced to play the game, gather proof, and report back. It's become very time consuming. Tongue

I think I completely understand why ZeroArmy was getting so frustrated during the course of this topic, because reading through a lot of this, I felt the same way.  Not only because this topic should be free of SCIII discussion (I took it that this post was asked in terms of SC2 exclusively), but also because all this arguing over pure speculation is such nonsense.
  Doctuh_Jay, though your points are interesting, they have no place in this topic.  I think it would be best if you formed your own topic that specifically mentions that you'd like to discuss the overall plot of SC2 and SCIII combined, especially concerning the Orz and the Eternal1s.  Discussion of the Eternal1s is TOTALLY off topic here.
 The meanings of the Orz and Arilou in this discussion is concerning SC2, as if SCIII never existed ... so you must take all those ideas from SCIII and temporarily put them on hold.  You were backing up your arguments with plot from a story ZeroArmy and mage were ignoring for this topic.  And yet even after it was explained, you continued to bring it up.  Start a new topic and leave a message here that you invite people to discuss it there, if they are interested.

Well it wasn't really that they were talking about SCIII in general (although I do have issues with it so I tend to get annoyed when people act as if it's the holy grail). It was simply that it should be clear to anyone that the guy, who started this thread, wanted to talk about what TFB had in mind, yet the same couple of people kept explaining what SCIII said. Then they were told that we didn't want to know what SCIII said (like you explained above) and they kept it up. One of them even went so far as to say the Taalo weren't alive because of what was said in SCIII. Yet, just a few posts before, someone cut and pasted part of a chat log where Paul and Fred said they were really alive. After a few posts like that you feel like you want to rip your head off.  Angry

I enjoyed SCIII, probably more than most, in spite of its failings in linear plot development due to poor coding, but I explained this in a seperate topic labeled "Star Control 3".  I understand that it was not made by the original creators and in this they were not completely happy with the end product.

Since you brought up SCIII I want to clear something up for everyone who reads through this thread....I don't completely hate SCIII. The idea of the Eternal One's was nice, but they didn't back it up well enough and the ships were fun to play with, but they had no place in SCIII (the Crux probably could've beaten either of the Ur-Quan). In short, I think it's a fair game, but it doesn't deserve the name Star Control and I simply get a little annoyed when people treat the details from it as if they really happened. But, anyway, like you said, if people want to talk about it they should start a thread of their own.
15  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 11, 2002, 10:53:50 am
So many theories! Thank you everyone for posting! I started this thread with hope that more than three or so people would give input, but now there are so many replies... it's just so interesting to see everyone's take on this topic!

I hope this doesn't shift the overall topic, but I think this ties in to it:

Is it just me, or do the Orz seem rather juvenile and advanced in their conversations at the same time? I mean, they get VERY angry if you simply mention the Androsynth... their lingual "best fits" sometimes seem rather purposefully humorous ("*Jumping Peppers*!! It is *smiley* time!!")... hell, they even try to make jokes with you sometimes!

I sometimes get the impression (regarding the latter example) that the Orz are trying to "fit in" as a "typical" alien race that inhabits what they call *heavy space*. Obviously, they are not "typical" in most senses, as reflected by their complex language and how they only speak in present tense. But the Orz go out of their way to make an alliance with you, supply you with plenty of ship plans, and attempt to make casual jokes ("Yes, we do! Hello! I am only joke. It is funny enough! Don't forget to *enjoy the sauce*!!") with you to lighten the situation of their strangeness.

This is just my take on it... if you have any concurrences or differences, please post away!

I always used to think it was a side-effect of the hive-mind theory (like they weren't quite right). The Mycon are good example of this. But, anyway, I like your idea better...They could be like the Supox (in a small way) where they are trying to act as normal as possible so that they don't draw attention to themselves.

And I must ask two more questions, one of which I asked earlier with no answer, but it is okay if you're too focused on the primary issue to answer them. Here they are:

1) If the Orz are projections of a different-dimensioned being/entity/species, why did they/it choose the physical form of fish-like creatures that breathe from a liquid ethanol solution?

2) On a lighter and perhaprs sillier note, what do you think the meaning of *enjoy the sauce* is?

Thank you so much everyone for contributing!

You always have the most interesting questions.  Cheesy Anyway, as to question 1 I have two possible theories. The first is that they breathe that in their home dimension and they had no choice but for their *fingers* to breate it in this one. And the second is that they have some sort of master plan and being able to breathe that will protect them from what they are going to do (this one is a little out there). After all, if they could decide what they would breate, in this dimension, why wouldn't it be something that was common? At least that way they could fit in/colonize more worlds without having to change the enviroment.

As for question 2. I have no idea, so I won't even try answering. Hopefully, someone will be able to though (I'd really like to know).
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