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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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1006  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Chmmr Reproduction on: January 07, 2003, 07:00:56 pm
That's a nice subplot idea for a possible sequel. For example, the player meets a Chenjesu or Mmrnmhrm patrol which was sent on a long-range mission before the Process started and got stranded somehow, and never manged to return to Procyon...
Remember that the Starbase at Procyon was empty and that the servants who were supposed to run the base somehow slid through the shield to join the process...
1007  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: SPOILER: Doctrinal Poker Night on: January 07, 2003, 04:29:30 pm
They only won the first time because they used the SaMatra.  Well, at least they used the SaMatra, I never heard that they would have lost without it, but on the other hand, the battle was allegedly pretty close even with it.

Afterwards the factions set out across the galaxy, enslaving and extinctifying.
Yes, the Kohr-Ah were winning the war, when the Kzer-Za by chance found the Sa-Matra. They used the Sa-Matra to defeat the Kohr-Ah.
After the Kzer-Za won they were not sure, if their way was the right one, so they send their brothers one way of the galaxy, and went the other way. He who needs more strength to go his way of enslaving/annihilating uses more recources on his way to the other side of the galaxy, were they both will meet. So they met here (the Kzer-Za came from the upepr left side of the map, enslaving the Thraddash, Umgah and Spathi, the Kohr-Ah came from the right side, annihilating the Burvixese and bareley scratching past the Druuge territory).
The first doctrinal war was after the revolt against the Dnyarri, so now this is the second doctrinal war. The winner will get a big trophy (translated into ur-quan: Sa-Matra) and the looser will stand aside and let the other go.

They have both completed a 360 degree circuit when SC2 begins.  We know its 360 and not 180 because their old friends, the Chenjesu, are right were they left them.  But at the same time this is only the 2nd doctrinal war, not the third one.
The Chenjesu first learned of the arrival of the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za shortly before the hierarchy-alliance-war. They tell you so when you use the caster to talk to them at Procyon. They tell you of the danger the Ur-Quan propose to this quadrant and that they need the help of earth (told to you by Cmdr. Hayes)

Uh, not exactly right, remember the Mael-Num were the ones who said the "Hold blabla bla" thing?  Pretty much it's accepted, even the great ones state the Mael-Num were/are the Melnorme.  We don't find their homeworlds or anything in the game (or for that matter the Ur-Quan homeworlds), so all those events must have happened on the other side of the universe.  If I recall, SC2 is the first game where the Kohr-Ah appear.  SC1 was about the war of the alliance against the hierarchy.  As far as the old Sentient Milieu goes, we only know of the Taalo homeworld in this area of the galaxy...
That's right! But that implies, that the Ur-Quan were a much larger race by that time (they annihilated the Taalo, and they were on the other side of the galaxy as well, when they revolted the Dnyarri. And the Ur-Quan were fighting all other sentient-milieu races as well, enslaving and annihilating them, if they've survived the Dnyarri. Either they were scattered across the universe, no more than a few hundred ships per quadrant, or they were a lot more of them.

BTW: why doesn't their spheres of influence get smaller and smaller by the time they fight each other?? They must have some rules to prevent each other from destroying each other.

So what did they do on the other side of the universe?  The first Doctrinal War of course!  The Ur-Quan arrived from the top of the map and the Kohr-Ah arrived from the bottom side...
Then the Kohr-Ah would have destroyed the Yehat, VUX and Orz, not the Burvixese on the right side of the map (they passed the Druuge near enough, alas they didn't hit there).

CU, Krulle
1008  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Good Captain / Ship Names on: January 07, 2003, 02:41:58 pm
My first favourite one was:

Cptn:  Slavemstr BigB
Ship:  Dominator
Alliance:  Empire of Slavemstr BigB

And all races still allied with me (okay, the Spathi and the Thraddash were quite willing slaves, but who cares 'bout them anyway?).

And during the game i stayed quite harsh and dominating.

I just wanted to see, if races like the Pkunk, Shofixti, Yehat,... still were friendly towards me or if it would become more difficult to complete the game. I would have liked to see any difference.
1009  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: The Blade, of course! on: December 20, 2002, 01:10:45 pm

One word: slingshot.
Huh Never had any problems with that.
Awesome computers were absolutely no problem with the Blade, but Humans. After a while they stop chasing you, then it becomes mroe difficult to stay at the rigth distance to take the ZapStats out.
1010  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Slylandro Probe on: December 19, 2002, 03:16:50 pm
Yes, you still receive the 500 RU. But the Probes will stop to replicate, therefor you won't get much more money! Sad
1011  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Your LEAST favorite ship on: December 18, 2002, 05:02:23 pm
Speaking of match-ups, has anyone beaten a Utwig with a Chmmr?
Yes (awesome computer).
It does take more time than taking an Avatar with a Blade apart, it even won't work w/o loosing crew. First job is to take his battery down. So never ever use the laser on the Utwig until his batts are drained. Use it to shoot near the Utwig. Make him trigger his shield. Wait. Turn and shoot left or right of him. Wait until he stopped triggering and redo. By the time he has lost his shields, you've lost at least half your crew and (most probably) one or two of your ZapStats. Now your task will be to chase him. and get him down. for good. BTW, it's easier to win against an Utwig after having lost your sattelites against an Kohr-Ah (these Zap-stats accidentically fill his battery, great Sad)
1012  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Thraddash Issues (spoiler) on: December 18, 2002, 04:28:14 pm
Standard protocol though is that the contents of your ship and fleet can be scanned and identified upon an initial contact by what you encounter.  After all how do the Chmmr or Druuge know what you have, and how do the Traddash know you are the one who took it when you send them off to fight the Kohr-Ah and they leave the Aqua Helix planet unguarded?
Even the Melnorme scan you and your computer. They must be very advanced to just scan the computer and find out about new rainbow coordinates. But they never pull me off (strange, isn't it? After finding the new location in the database, i wouldn't give a credit to Cptn. Zelnick for telling me what i already know. I'd just state, that we (the Melnorme) have found that one ourselves).
And the Aqua Helix planet isn't left unguarded. Just a small distress call before engaging the fight and the rest of the Thraddash should know, who has stolen that Helix.

But they are stupid, Yes. Just the invention of that afterburner. Great story. Laughed my ass of. My friend who accompanies my playing of the UQM nearly swallowed his cigarette. Just made it more fun. And how they made a hero of that mechanic. Just a big one.!
1013  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Orz - Dnyarri on: December 18, 2002, 02:40:33 pm
Also, reading this quote reminded me of long forgotten confusion:

Taalo are in *heavy space* and next what?  They spread to *Pretty Space* because Dnyarri are chasing them.  Now Dnyarri are sleeping, so Orz can *chase* them.
Hmm, Orz does know the difference between now and then, but his language does not have a past tense. But his language does differ for single beings and mutiple beings (Dnyarri are, Orz is). He uses the singular only for himself.

Am I the only one who thought that the Orz are referring to the Dnyarri, not the Taalo here?  Perhaps the Dnyarri, with all of their psychic powers, could be used as a weapon against the psychic Arilou...
Good point. I've thought of Orz chasing the Dnyarri, but never thought of a reason why.

But i do not believe that he meant chasing the Dnyarri, because Orz couldn't even *smell* this *space*. But the Dnyarri were here, in this dimension. And the Taalo spread into *pretty space*.

Another interesting point: Orz didn't see the Talking pets, he saw the Dnyarri sleeping. He knew about the Dnyarri chasing the Taalo, he knew the Dnyarri are sleeping (remember the Umgah-talking pet talking about his dreams during the several years of subconsciousness?), although he (Orz) wasn't in this dimension and knew nothing about it.
Did the Taalo tell him?
Or are dreams part of another dimension, one in which Orz lives. And he is becoming a living nightmare? HELP!

EDIT: I've just started the Poltergeistalarm! But i know the game, therefor i won't start searching for describtions about being haunted. I'll just dissolve one day. Revenge me, if you still can....
1014  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Chenjesu - society on: December 18, 2002, 02:00:18 pm
Actually, if they were able to constantly send/receive hyperwave transmissions, what indication we actually have that the Chmmrwhatevers are even individuals?
That's been one of my questions....

The Chenjesu are individuals, the human Starbase commander guy who's name escapes me at the moment talks about a Chenjesu scientist who was trying to study the Taalo, but couldn't because the Androsynth got in the way. If they were more of a hive mind (like the Xchaggers or something), I wouldn't think they'd know a specific Chenjesu who was studying the Taalo, [...]
Hayes was his name. But you have got a point here. The Chenjesu are individuals. But they seem to be capable of talking for any other Chenjesu using their transmitters/receivers.

I would assume since it is part of their natural biology (as it were) to receive (and perhaps send) hyperwave transmissions that they would be capable of blocking or willing transmissions to and from when they want to... to a certain degree.
Yes, but even that would give me a headache. Just as if your neighbor haves a party. You can make the noise seem less loud, but you can still hear it. After a while you just get a headache.

We are the Chmmr.  Resistance is futile.  You will be assimilated.  Grin
But the Chenjesu never accepted the formal title of being the leaders of the Alliance of free worlds. And since i do not have a hyperwave transmitter, i'm quite certain, that i am immune to their assimilation. And you could easily give the Chenjesu a bad headache. Imagine using that strong Burvixese Hyperwavecaster (or any other of the Druuge commercial beacon casters) on the Chenjesu homeworld. That should sound to them as if you're standing in front of a chemistry-plant and it suddenly explodes some feet behind you. Ouch!

* They are ALIEN.  Not just "oh, well, of course, they're not human", but really, really alien.  They aren't even carbon-based life, but silicon and germanium crystals.  They absorb light and ambient minerals for food.  They have natural hyperwave casters.  Creatures like these would have mindsets unlike any a human could have, and thus their political systems would be equally strange.
So their needs are different. But they have still some needs! (see below)

* Their biology (if that's even the proper word) is such that they don't have many of the needs humans do.  They don't need food in the way we do.  They likely don't need shelter, since their planet doesn't have much weather, and they're large crystals.  Clothing is right out.  And as for companionship of their fellows, they can all send and receive hyperwave to each other, so loneliness isn't a problem.
i agree on these needs.

Politics, with humans, is about addressing the basic needs we all have.  Since Chenjesu don't even HAVE those needs, they may not need politics the way we do.  (Of course, they may have other needs, which we would be incapable of fully understanding.)
Their basic needs are: light, clean environment (crystal can't grow w/o problems in polluted arreas), enough minerals to absorb. I think, the best places on their world are quite crowded. And the oldest beings must be the biggest ones (a crystal only gets destroyed by physical damage). Apparently, they can live for a very, very, very long time. Another need (maybe not), could be the making of children. Normaly, a crystal starts growing from a very small cmicocrystal. But that one could be absorbed by a larger Chenjesu as well, before becoming big enough to have own thoughts. Cannibalism, just to grow bigger.

Another thing: Due to their crystalline structure, their thinking must be very fast. But crystals are surely not fast in moving something. For successful figthts in their avatars, they must either be connected to the ship by some sort of direct interface or they must be very good in anticipating what the opponent does next.

Wow...speculating on the psychology of an alien race in a game forum.  What a great game, to inspire such thoughts in its fans!    Cheesy
Well, talking about alien "society" Grin, sounds cool to me Cool.
That's what i like about SC2: There are even more races for philosophical studies. And all races seem quite logical too me. Some are very extreme (like the Druuge, Chenjesu) and some are quite near our understanding (Shofixti, Yehat, Pkunk, Umgah, Utwig, ...)
1015  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Chenjesu - society on: December 17, 2002, 04:09:15 pm
The Chenjesu have natural hyperwavereceivers. Thinking of a radio which is always on, but noone sending on that frequency, i think iwould have a bad headyche all over my life if i were a chenjesu...  Sad

Do they have natural transmitters as well?
Then they would never be alone.... Even imprisonment to seperate someone from the rest of his gang cannot really separate him. Therefore the Chenjesu must have a culture either
- where the police can (and does) destroy the receiver/sender of a criminal (equals torture)
- idealistic (equals communist) society, where there are no criminals.

Either way not near our human society.

I rather expect them to have the idealistic society. Otherwise we made a mistake by allying with them during the war.

1016  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Chenjesu on: December 17, 2002, 04:02:53 pm
But the Chenjesu preferred travelling for the bringing of messages. Hyperwave transmissions could always be intercepted.

But that brings me to another point. (See new thread about Chenjesu...)
1017  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / The Blade, of course! on: December 17, 2002, 03:01:58 pm
My favourite one is the Supox Blade.
Needs patience and a little practice!
But getting the practice is easy against the Avatar,
because you will only fly backwards and correct your line
of flight in a few cases, to hit the right spot for taking
out the Zapstats.

1. Make the Avatar follow you
2. Fly backwards
3. Shoot Zapstats first (at least 1 of 3 will hit the
   zapstat if you shoot it at the point where the
   satelite passes the Avatar)
4. Use only full battery-loads (reload when empty)
5. After taking out at least 2 of the satelites, you can
  proceed the kill the sitting avatar.

Your engine is strong enough to fight the tractor beam
while flying backwards.

I only take damage from crashing the planet or by
forgetting to keep pressing the reverse shift.
The blade was the first ship, in which i won against
a human-controlled avatar without losing any crew.
Against the ai, it is the same.


My spitfire, i will plant thy seeds and keep your nutricious dirt always well watered!
1018  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Open questions. FRUNGY! on: December 17, 2002, 02:40:02 pm
Actually, I have to agree with Krulle on the spirit of this, but Krulle, you missed out on one area with SO much potential.  A story taking place during the thousands of years of the Sentient Milieu, BEFORE the discovery of the Dnyarri.  There is such much room for originality here.  Who were the Yuli, Drall, Taalo, Mael-Num, Foz, Yuptar and brown Ur-Quan?  If anything, I think a story told from the perspective of the brown Ur-Quan would be ingenius.  Imagine, playing as a member of the race with SUCH a complex future, back when they were basically where the humans are in SC+SC2.
Yeah, you are right about that! Put it on the list of possible prequels.
Another one forgotten is the run of the Precursors running away from whatever they were trying to avoid.

I don't think they need to make umpteen billion games just to answer one little question per game.
I actually think that things like Frungy ought to remain unanswered.
It's like in Calvin and Hobbes, whenever they talk about the "noodle incident".  There are no details, and I think that's awesome.  Things like Frungy would lose their magic if they were explained away.  I like far better the guessing and questioning.
Even I believe, nobody will be able to answer frungy. It's like 42 in the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy (for me). Yesterday I answered all questions with "FRUNGY!" Man, that was fun, to see all these faces!  Grin   The people just don't know what to ask...
The list was meant as a collection of open ends. Not all answers need to be given, but each game with answers will arise even more questions. Whis to bet on that?
1019  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: December 16, 2002, 08:24:05 pm
Through reasonable collective discussion, we can come togehter to agree that both our points can fit into the meanings.  This is just part of the brilliance of this game.  It always leaves you guessing and dying for more.  There is always things you don't get to understand, but are driven mad trying.  Paul and Fred definitely captured this and used it to make all these people completely addicted to their story.
Whew, just started thinking of all the possibilities. Even several new "original" StarCons won't answer our questions. Following ideas are sequel/prequel worthy, just to answer us some questions:

 The Syreen voyage
 The Ur-Quan slave revolt
 The Taalo hide
 The Mael-Num hide'run
 The Druuge treaching the Burvixese
 a kind of a civilization-style game with the Zoq-Fot-Piq vs. Zebranky
 The Adaption of the Shofixti by the Yehat
 The development of the symbiotic relation between the Supox and the Utwig

 The Orz *Everything* *Story*
 The plan of the Arilou
 The findings of the Mark II
 The Mycon story (could also be a prequel)
 The Umgah story (are they products of their own ancestors, tampering with the genes of others in their race? Do the live in brains and move "normal" bipedal beigns by touching certain nerves?
 The Shofixti/Yehat/Pkunk Threesome
 The Melnorme long range plan
 The Voyage to the Galactic core, to find out about the Rainbow-Planets
 Trapping the *NGNN*

Okay, some are going to be just time-killers like Solitaire (only more addictive), but
TFB, I think you've got more work than you have accounted for. So get starting! PLEASE![/i][/u]   Roll Eyes

As for the Taalo, make no mistake. I've never said that they are now part of the Orz or are even willing to go through this *party* experience.  If any thing, it seems that they are completely uninsterested and trying to avoid the Orz.
That fits my feelings of the Orz-Taalo-Story also best.

Thank you Krulle for sharing your points and backing them with plausible data.  I only try to do the same.  I think through calm, reasonable discussion, we can learn more by fleshing out our points in a constructive manner.
That's what discussions are for.

Good evening everybody!
1020  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / *Party* on: December 13, 2002, 05:05:48 pm
maybe *Alliance* is a modifier, that means something like "with other people".
Thank you ErikLich. Makes it easier for me to support my view of *things*.

This raises a question though; why the opposing meanings between the two?  *party* by itself in your opinion would seem to mean a definite fight between the Orz and whoever they were talking to.  Ex: We're going to have a *party* with so and so.  *Alliance party*, though, would have to be towards someone else, since the Orz join your side.  Granted, they seem to invade your star base, but they don't cause any harm; they seem like they're just looking at all the pretty buttons, and they do give you their ship designs.

Ship designs: We cannot use them when Orz leaves us. That's one of the most important basics in SC2. You have the designs but no officers to fly the ship.
*party* - *alliance party*: war - warcomrades. It isn't the opposite, but it ain't the same thing.It's the same, but then it is not.
BTW: The fight between Orz and the one he's been talking to is the *dance*.
Orz on starbase watching pretty buttons: They prepare to take the starbase apart??? Mind you, this is just another theory! And the starbase is constructed by the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za but doesn't need any Ur-Quan to be run. Therefor Orz might be interested in copying the design to run one himself, or to understand it before running this one after your assimilation.
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