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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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1  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: What a gyp! on: February 08, 2003, 03:59:17 pm
What, you didn't see the Mycon? YOu must haver timed it wrong. I saw a swarm of the podships enter the system and approach the lush fertile planet. After that, a couple of hundered Syreen appeared out of nowhere and ripped them to shreds! It was awesome, keep trying to see it!  Wink

Oh, that's just cruel.

Death_999, I know I tried to witness it the first time I played and was just as disappointed.
2  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Origin of Orz' word "Frumple" on: February 08, 2003, 03:55:11 pm
since this discussion has gone completely off onto a ZFP tangent, any guesses on which of them really is the Fot, and why?
3  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: February 08, 2003, 03:23:09 pm
Kizor - I just want to clarify that I was joking.  Yes, that was a bit of sarcasm, but I took no offense.  It's near impossible to convey here that I'm kidding around without me saying it explicitly.  When I said I smiled when I saw that people had taken the time to read through all these posts, I meant it.  I know you were complimenting me.  If you actually took the time to read through all these debates, that is a great compliment to every one who has contributed.
  The reason I said "But I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong (yes, Kizor, it's possible)", is that good debater or not, I have been convinced that other's ideas had more merit than mine.  So, although I was not offended by you saying it was madness to argue with me, I was concerned that you would think it futile to try.  It was just my sarcastic way of saying, "Don't give up.  I'll listen."

Matticus - I'm glad to see you posted your thoughts.

Concerning the humans not being the center of everything because the cruiser is a ship with limitations, and in SC1 they were low on the list, let's not delude ourselves that this continues on into SC2.  Yes, the Alliance lost.  Yes, the humans on Earth were slave-shielded.  But a human, you as captain, saved EVERYONE from total annihilation at the hands of the Kohr-Ah.  Yes, you could not have done it alone, single-handedly.  So many contributed to the cause through ships, crew, technology and information, but in the end, you as a human, along with the incredible ship you commanded were the focal point through which final victory was realized.  Aside from the commander and crew on the starbase and the people of Vela, humanity as a whole may have played a small role in contribution, but it was a human that blew up his treasured ship to make the total difference.  If that doesn't make humans important in the SC universe, then what does?
  I don't believe the Orz are interested in humans alone.  They not only mention that the are interested in the Taalo, but I recall they also approached the VUX, although they ended up *dancing* because the VUX constantly asked about the Androsynth.  The Orz are interested in our dimension and its species as a whole.  Why specifically?  I don't know and neither does any one else here.  We can all just speculate.  The Arilou on the other hand, are interested in humans specifically ... almost blindly.  They really don't seem to care about any of the other local species (other than rescuing the Dnyarii).  Whether they care about other species in other places ... again, pure speculation.  (Unless you count the Nggn)  Tongue

  Aside from the recent connection made with Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which I really only find sort of humorous to contemplate (a bunch of Space-Lennys ... LOOK-OUT Space-rabbits!), I feel that this thread may be exhausting itself in fresh ideas.  I see the same sort of posts showing up, asking the same questions, trying to squeeze information out of the same text, with little more than pure speculation.  Even some of the speculation is starting to sound repetitive.

I think wminsing may be right.  Even I'm overwhelmed at the size of this thread.

4  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: NEMT brought up something interesting... on: February 02, 2003, 03:09:02 pm
Despite the horrible things that the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za have done to people all across the globe, NEMT pointed out that almost ALL the races enslaved by the Ur-Quan were very happy with their status.  The Yehat, Ilwrath, and VUX were fighting all they wanted.  The Syreen are blissfully happy on their new planet.  The Mycon are hard to tell, although it seems they had plans to overthrow the Ur-Quan later.  The Androsynth and Shofixti are pretty much gone, so there's no knowing their opinion on the idea, and the Thraddash are very pleased to be battle thralls, despite their lack of action.

Seems like only the humans and the Chenjesu/Mmrnmhrm were upset about being enslaved.

Yes, that's all fine and good ... but let's not forget what happens if you DON'T take action.  Battle Thralls or Fallow Slaves ... the Kohr-Ah doesn't care.  Let's face it, you're doing all sentience a favor.  (Especially with the handling of the Dill-rats/Fat Obstreperous Jerks solution.)

5  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers on: February 02, 2003, 02:48:47 pm
After a month away I'm back and what better place to post than here.  I can't believe some one resurrected this discussion.  Once I saw it fall to page three, I thought it surely dead.  It's nice to see others noticed and still have questions, as we all do.

Kizor - thanks for inferring that I'm mad.  It really brought a smile to my face to see that people have really taken the time to read through ALL these pages of posts, as a lot of us did, even the really long ones, like mine tend to be.

Matticus - thanks for inferring that I'm insane.  I guess when you enjoy something so fully, it crosses over to obsession and yeah, you look crazy to other people.  The insane fanatic ... yeah, that's me.  Seeing that you admit yourself one, why hold back?  Submit your ideas, no matter how long or how crazy they sound.  That's the point of the forum ... sharing ideas.  If you make clear, valid points and back it up, I'll read it and I'm sure others will too.
  I put out my old ORZ dictionary on here and it got criticized and "corrected" and rightfully so.  People had insights I failed to realize.  Others saw obvious flaws I just missed.  But I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong (yes, Kizor, it's possible), and I'd love to see everything presented in a new light.
  For instance, Tom Schumm's long, yet informative explanation of the concepts in the book Flatland possibly relating to how the Orz view our space and we view them is brilliant.  I've never read the book myself, but I've had many math teachers refer to it, especially my multivariable calc. professor, that I was already familiar with the ideas in it.  It fits perfectly with the idea of how one entity from another dimensional could be seen as multiple instances at the same time.
  This is why I love this topic and I'm so excited to see it resurface.

  I was recently going through an old folder I had stashed away that contained various game maps and hints from years ago and I'm so excited because I found my old SC2 notes on mineral content of various star systems.  But the best part was finding the map I had started making of Hyperspace.  It's six pieces of graph paper carefully taped together.  The entire grid is done and all the quasi space openings are marked in red, but it's mostly unfinished.  I really only added the stars in the Pkunk to Yehat region of space and I drew some of the circles of influence.  It's not very useful, but like the dictionary, it's a nice memory to have of one of my favorite games.

  Mad?  Insane?  Nah.  I'm just a die-hard fan.

6  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: The Melnorme sounds like Half-Life's Gman... on: January 07, 2003, 03:24:46 am
Captain Smith - Yeah, I have a friend of mine who is a big FPS player and he tells me that this is a game that I especially would love.  The reason ... I need a storyline.  I gave up on most FPS because that's all they became - shooters - all action, no thinking.  I just get bored.  And I played through all 6 levels of Wolfenstein 3D back when it was new and I loved it, but it was new.  Doom was ok, but I just never got into it and from there, they just got progressively more action and less story until Q3A when id just said, "Forget story ... this is a multiplayer ladder game"  Hey, I know a lot of you out there LOVE these kinds of games, but for the most part, I get bored of them.  And yes, I've spent enough hours, red-eyed, cramped-hand, playing Duke 3D, Doom 2, Quake with friends over the net to know what it is that I enjoy.
  So, when it came to HalfLife, my friend told me, "This is a game you would love.  This single player game was made for you."  Yet, I still haven't picked up a copy and I know he's right based on all the things I've heard.  I played through Elite Force and loved it.  I own Return to Wolfenstein and I still have not opened it and that's another one he tells me I'd enjoy.  So, I'll get to it, eventually ... maybe buy that all-in-one package before they're all gone.
  FPSes typically were built for multiplay and that's just not where my interest lie.  I played CounterStrike with a few people at a LAN party and I found the terrorist/anti-terrorist game to be so amazingly dull.  Set the bomb ... stop them from setting the bomb ... over and over and over.  Snooze.  And I know how popular that game is.  I don't care.  I know what I like.  I like a game that takes time.  That takes more than just quickness of fingers and reflexes.  I like games that make you think, not just react.  Sure, the adrenaline rush that comes with multiplay games is like a drug, but after I walk away, I think, "What did I get out of that other than bleary eyes and jumpy nerves?"
  At heart, I am an adventure/RPG gamer and they just don't make too many of those any more (other than Interplay).  These games are slower paced and take time.  I like to think that SC2 fits into this realm.  It is an adventure.  You are role-playing.  You do improve yourself and your situation over time.  And it has that added element of action in the melee, and less so in the scouring for minerals.  And I love those parts, because they are just enough to keep things exciting, but not overwhelming as to dominate the game.  I think this is part of the brilliance of SC2.
  There's a little bit of everything in it for everyone.  Problem solving, a story line, exploration, character (in this case your ship) improving, action, adventure, humor, AND ... for me I can't argue this enough ... an ending!  I just like games that END.  I like to know that eventually, I can win, and I can be satisfied and yes, I can move on to something else.

  Any way, in the SC2 credits, it says the voice of the Melnorme trader was done by Larry Zee.  If any one who owns Half-Life can look it up in the credits, we could know for sure.

7  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for all newbies on: January 06, 2003, 02:52:41 pm
Ignore all Commons and Corrosives (Blue and Red minerals). They are a waste of cargo space.

I agree 100%

Valuable Green and Yellow planets of all sizes tend to be either Lithium (Forgot name?)

You meant Lanthanide ... filled with rare-earth (green).

Personally, I never leave a world unchecked (except for gas giants).  You never know what you might find.  For the most part, what you say is true, but you just never know.

Atmosphere: Is there one, and a deciding factor on the availability of life.

Weather: How many bolts of lightning per second. ;P

Temperature: Anything at 100 or above will cause hotspots.

Tectonics: 1 is minimal. 10 is like the Kobe Earthquake x 5

The other stuff isn't too important.

I disagree.  You should pay attention to gravity ... it directly affects fuel consumption for your lander.  Most of the information is based on Earth as a standard with values of 1.0.  In terms of weather, that's not true.  Worlds with a rating of 2 or lower for weather and/or tectonics will not have any lightning or earthquakes.  Also, I believe the scales for tectonics and weather are from 0-8.  I've never seen a world above 8 ... Shattered Worlds are all about tectonic instability and they are set at 8.

Although the Dill-rats are good for a few laughs, they are more trouble then you claim.  You really do need to get rid of them eventually, especially if you want to pick up the aqua helix without interference and get help from the Chmmr.

I really think you should be actively playing the game before you start dealing out the hints to any one new.  Too much of what you said is inaccurate.

zixyer - I think you meant Purple and not pink ... I've never seen a pink world.  Aside from that, I don't trust the complete accuracy of this in game hint.  Some red worlds are Ruby or Radioactive and these hold some of the most valuable minerals in the game.  Also, as ranmafan stated, some yellow worlds are Urea, which tend to be worthless (unless they have Bios).

I wrote extensively on all of this in a topic called "colors and mining".;action=display;num=1039125066#12

Check it out.  I noticed in there that I never had Purple (the letter "P") in the planet color list.  Either I didn't write down the mnemonic correctly or I just ignored it ... seriously, who here can distinguish Violet from Purple, especially in a game with a limited palette.  And since I found this "hint" to be generally unhelpful anyway, I didn't really care.

8  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: The Melnorme sounds like Half-Life's Gman... on: January 06, 2003, 02:11:54 pm
I feel so ashamed ... I'm one of those three you're talking about.

9  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Good Captain / Ship Names on: January 06, 2003, 02:00:34 pm
When my friend and I played back in 94, we named our ship the Phoenix.  Not only was it symbolic of rebirth after destruction, but we just loved the sound of the name.  It seems fitting that the ship ended up going out in a blaze of glory.

10  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Map data on: December 23, 2002, 07:54:29 pm
Regardless of whether its pseudorandomly generated off the same seed or not, it is the exact same galaxy quadrant every time.
I never knew there was a strategy guide for SC2, so I just kept my own log book (which I can no longer find) when I first played the game.  This made playing the game a LOT easier the second time since I knew exactly what I would find at many of the star systems.
Therefore, your helper should work.  I don't see why you cannot build one.

11  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Star Control copyright on: December 23, 2002, 11:27:30 am
 Shocked  Oh Geez paulsid ... don't give them horrible ideas!  Especially not ones posted on an open forum such as this one!  For the sake of all who love this UQM world, censor yourself soon, please.

  You do have a point though in your last sentence, but for that very same reason, please don't suggest ideas like THAT.

scary thoughts ...

12  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Escaping from combat on: December 23, 2002, 11:21:02 am
Ok, I change my vote ... Dave's suggestion is far superior to my previous one (especially since he used the word/idea "grok" in a sentence ... extra bonus points).

13  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: ilwrath at Chmirr and Mrrrmmm home on: December 23, 2002, 11:17:57 am
Nice try Dave.   Grin
(Benefit of the doubt ... ok)

14  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Other great old games on: December 23, 2002, 11:12:55 am
I know Scott.  It seems that most people do.  A text parser allows for a wider range of possibilities which has its advantages and disadvantages over a pure GUI/mouse clickable interface.  I guess my biggest trouble with it is that I have never been a very good typist, which I admit is a very lame excuse.  I have played through all five Quest for Glory games, taking one character through it all at least twice and I've done this using the remake of QFG1 and then the original.  Although there are some fun extra things you can type into the parser version, I found the mouse-clickable version easier to play through, even once I knew all the secrets to finishing the game.  From what I understand, QFG2 is supposed to be the favorite of all among fans because of the depth of the story and the many different paths you can take.  I found it to be really hard to play and in many ways annoying.  I was shocked to find that people preferred it since it was the one I seemed to dread playing the most.  With time, I've come to enjoy the game, but I cannot forget the difficulty it always gave me.

15  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Escaping from combat on: December 22, 2002, 10:08:54 pm
Yeah, I have a suggestion but you're not going to like it.

Don't play on a laptop.  (at least until the key jammer is implemented )

I told you you wouldn't like it.   Tongue

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