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31  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Immigration on: November 06, 2017, 08:38:36 pm
I agree with Death999, it infringe on freedom of movement.
You would have to split it up to countries and not call it municipality.
I am in the opinion that there should be as many countries as possible for as many groups of people who get along together.
I think a country with too many groups or Demographics who don't get along together is not really healthy.
Sometimes it's better to just separate people who get along fine together(with the separation being a country not segregation) into their own country.

Are we going to make everyone get along together under one big country? Or is it better to separate groups of interest into separate countries who are both strong and independent and both respect each other?

Do you really think everyone on the planet can get along under the exact same terms? Or maybe different people need different conditions or terms to live by?
32  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Accidental digression on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 08:17:46 pm
"Easily verifiable", I don't think most important things are easily verifiable.
You wouldn't listen that the dangerous terror funding opposition in Saudia Arabia actually donated millions to Obama?
The rigging of the DNC primaries is "shurgged off" as a non issue, and that Bernie took the money eventhough he knew it was rigged.

The left winger fail to accept there are bad things going on on their side. They tend to shrug it off as unimportant, although many of the things left wing politicians od will get the average joe a lifeterm in prison.
Also the "Seth rich assasination" conspiracy theory might actually be true.
How can you trust everything said in the media when they have been caught up lying many times and the numbers just don't add up?
But some people swear everything in the MSM is the moderate common sense "verifiable" truth, yet any talk about corruption by Hillary and Obama is just lies and impossible.
33  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Accidental digression on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 06:48:55 pm
Sure, but you talked about toxic ideologies.
There is no specific toxic ideology in the West.
And even if you talk to radical Muslims or Nazis they will try to rationalize how they are not racist or hate women.
That's why I think it's wrong to target certain ideologies and attack people for those.

It's like there is almost 0% chance for you to find someone on trial who is 100% honest and admits that he have done something wrong and he should get the full punishment he deserves.

And you are correct. People can be racist or backwater inside their head, but only if they act upon it, it's what makes the difference.
I don't see how you can categorize ideas as toxic, I think it's really the individual who is toxic, rarely the ideas themselves.
34  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Accidental digression on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 06:00:39 pm
By the way, there is always the claim that "Religion is dangerous, it brings violence, it's bad..."
Well the last shooter in the US was a left wing atheist.
So include Atheism into the dangerous ideologies.
35  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Accidental digression on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 05:11:15 pm
Well, nowadays you see left wingers more likely to ban right wing ideas/guests in university/people on twitter/people on the media.
The fact that the left throw so much slander, and accept no possibility of discussing different opinions only serve the right wingers.

In most free countries when you tell people "You are not allowed to listen to them." Or you tell people what they shouldn't do, people are automatically intrigued by it.
If you try to hide "bad ideas" long enough, they will take root in underground or alternative places and draw people there.
The fact that the left controls the mainstream narrative is bad for itself, because it puts the right on the "rebel" "underground" place.

Maybe those politicians have no choice, because a true honest discussion would reveal their ideas are empty. And even if they are not, that is the impression they are giving to most people.
36  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Accidental digresson on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 04:16:42 pm
"Just not absolutely indiscriminate diversity of opinion"

Death999 said it.

Anyway, the radical right wing don't need to ban the left wing ideas. The left wing don't understand that any violence or banning of right wing really play into their hands.
Antifa even helped the Nazi party in the 30s to gain popularity because once they went on the street as vigilanty the Nazis could used that politically to say "Look, there is chaos in the streets, we need to fix this".
37  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Accidental digresson on left-right on: November 06, 2017, 03:07:12 pm
The left likes to tell you what is your opinion and then attack it.
They call you a racist then attack you for being a racist.
So that is the dangers about "Punch a Nazi"(which is acceptable among the left).
While punching a Nazi might sound like a good thing to do, the problem is who decides who is a Nazi, and so you get a force to band or use violence against people you deem racist/have bad thoughts and opinions.
So that is the trouble, once you regulate ideas, it's easy to label someone as having bad ideas and banning him and not even let him talk.

If you don't allow any idea out, even the most racist ones, you are likely to end not allowing the moderate ideas as well.
38  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 09:57:58 pm
https://www.pri.org/stories/2013-05-25/western-iqs-drop-14-points-last-century-study-says

I saw the counter argument is the Flynn effect, but that includes the entire world. The IQ in the entire world might be rising, but it's getting lower in the West.
39  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 09:47:44 pm
There is a regression in the West though, but 3rd world countries do have more literate people.
40  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 09:37:42 pm
It's more like... babies who don't have proper conditions don't fulfill their potential, but they are born with this potential.
But I think a 2 years old infant already have a very defined unique personality.
Think that the child brains starts to develop before it's even born.
But yea, if a child is being abused in his first 2 years of life, he will develop very poorly.

There is a regression in literacy and intelligence in the last 200 years though.
The reason is that natural selection based on looks might converge to a lower(yet still higher than without it) IQ.
200 years ago your chances of survival and bringing children were very dependent on your intelligence.
Now you don't really need to be very intelligent to survive and have children. It's more random or based on physical attraction.

Again, you need to think about it as a game theory.
In a game theory, certain conditions lead to certain results.
Does the world we live today makes the "kind people" "win"?
If the conditions are good, few kind people can turn into the majority.
If the conditions are bad, even a society with mostly kind people will regress into a less kind society.

You need the right conditions.
There isn't a very big reward for being intelligent or kind nowadays.
If a kind person is surrounded with a lot of nasty people, he might turn himself into a nasty person as well.

So that starting point is that most people are selfish, nasty and opportunist.
How can you make the kind people manifest?
41  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 08:12:39 pm
Ahh, this actually make some sense.
Though World government is the one most prone to corruption and tyranny of the majority.

Yea, basically I agree people SHOULD behave better. I am not sure it has hope though.
It's also a matter of game theory.

While some people are evil, some people are altruistic but most are opportunistic.
So the opportunistic would go with whatever benefits them, whether it's the right or bad thing to do.
I am not sure if this kind of behaviour is acquired or you are born with.
Some people would like to say children are like a blank slate, but it's not true.
Children are born with different personalities and abilities, this might prove "educating people" will never actually work.

For instance, there is now DNA diet. Which is fitting the diet according to your DNA. If your DNA can determine which diet is best for you, why can't your DNA determine other cognitive things?

So, I agree most people are opportunistic and not very kind. I am just not sure any amount of ideology or effort can easily solve this though.
42  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 04:56:31 pm
The "one Democracy" thing.
43  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 04:52:52 pm
Yes, but the lines case is a geometric problem, while arguing something non mathematical isn't as straight forward.
We don't really have tools to measure the toxicity of "ideologies" and even if we do, what if they would measure that open borders and things you are for are also toxic?

Edit: Also people have different taste. Like some people like different kind of foods, they might like also different kinds of ideas.
People are born different, almost no two people are identical(unless we are talking about identical twins and even then they have differences).
44  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 01:53:29 pm
If cognitive bias is inherent to Human biology then you cannot do much about it. Your approach wouldnt work.
45  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Cognitive Biases on: November 05, 2017, 12:37:10 pm
What is your concern with "toxic ideologies". You are the one trying to prove you can tell other people's ideologoy and thoughts are wrong and toxic and yours are right and noble. You are the one encoyraging overeach and control.
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