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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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1  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 23, 2013, 05:56:53 pm
SHOFIXTI: Valuable allies, even if their sense of honor is a bit lacking (like with Spathi, they'd find every race except themselves to be like that)

Well, not the Yehat, and possibly not the Chenjesu.

Hmm, they may feel that the Yehat's abandonment of them at the end of the first war was a dishonor... or they may feel the opposite, knowing that the Yehat were obliged to follow the orders of their queen, no matter how they felt about them personally. I'm not sure which of these is more likely... though I'd say the first, perhaps.

Agreed about the Chenjesu.

I wonder what the Shofixti and Yehat would make of the Mmrnmhrm. Being sentient machines, they might not have a concept of honor, or many other emotions and values other Alliance races do. But at the same time, it's unlikely that they possess any malice or ambition either - if they'd lie, it would probably be only out of necessity.
2  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 23, 2013, 01:44:05 pm
An interesting question Smiley

I suppose there are a bunch of science fiction writers who speculated on how aliens would see us. Can't say I have, really Undecided

And in the Star Control setting... I don't have much of an idea, at least for some races. I can make a few guesses though.

So, the following races might see Earthlings as: (EDIT: Now I see that your question specified that it was another race playing the game from the perspective humans do in SC2. Thus what follows doesn't exactly answer that, but does give alien attitudes towards humans as they are or might be in standard SC2)

SPATHI: Ridiculously overconfident and fearless, to the point of recklessly charging into mortal danger on a regular basis (then again, Spathi would see everyone that way... especially the Shofixti).

VUX: Absolutely, almost indescribably, vomit-inducingly HIDEOUS!... of course. That's pretty much all that matters to the VUX... everything else is just an excuse to remove the ugly from the face of the universe.

SHOFIXTI: Valuable allies, even if their sense of honor is a bit lacking (like with Spathi, they'd find every race except themselves to be like that)

UTWIG: Why so cheerful? And too damn silly.

DRUUGE: 'Another bunch of boy-scouts? Eeeexcellent. What junk can we sell them today?'. And later: Humans have 'stolen' from the Crimson Corporation and have thus made themselves into competitors. Exterminate with extreme prejudice! (unless an outstanding deal with a good chance for high profit were offered, of course...)

ARILOU: 'Must guard our children!' (for whatever reason it is)

PKUNK: 'Dawww, another people whom we can unconditionally love!'

ILWRATH: 'Weak Prey Animals, Worthy Sacrifice!' sounds about right.

ORZ: *Playmates*? Grin

SUPOX: 'Hey, nice to meet a new race! They (Earthlings) seem decent enough. Let's learn more!'

SLYLANDRO: 'YES! New visitors! Awesome!' Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

SYREEN: 'Hey there Smiley' (and Kiss)

ANDROSYNTH: Angry, Angry, Sad, Angry. Also, Earthlings are inferior ancestors.

MYCON: Don't really care, except to find their homeworld and turn it (and the Earthlings themselves) into more Juffo-Wup.

KZER-ZA: Potentially dangerous in the future, plus dishonorable. Enslave as usual.

KOHR-AH: Potentially dangerous in the future, plus dishonorable. Annihilate as usual.

THRADDASH: They look weak! Attack anyway! ...*Thraddash lose*... Oops. So, they're stronger after all! 'Please tell us, how can we become as awesome as you?' *eager*

UMGAH: *trollface* *see Earthlings as just another prank target*

YEHAT: Either don't care for Earthlings (standard for royalists), or see them as good old allies (the revolutionaries). Either way, they might see humans as a bit too lacking in respect for authority.

CHMMR: Good allies, though a bit primitive. Should be gently guided to leave behind their more unsavory ways.

ZOQ-FOT-PIK: 'They seem nice enough. Will they help us? ... They did? Best friends forever!!!' Cheesy Grin

DNYARRI: Mere puppets. Mind control as usual.

MELNORME: Trade partners fighting the good fight.

SLYLANDRO PROBE: 'Must break target into component compounds.'

All in all, can't say I gave any 'hat' as such to humans here... these are merely attitudes, which is not the same. So yeah, it's difficult to answer what might be humanity's 'hat' Tongue
3  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 22, 2013, 05:26:41 pm
I think solving 'planet of hats' by adding: "some factions of said species disagree, but hide their true feelings out of necessity" is a bit cheap. I mean, there has to be a certain bias in who gets elected to be a star ship commander, and also to what the commander is allowed to say; there are filters in place that tend towards a certain result. Actually, one would expect that most races would behave the same way, simply due to the constraints a reasonable sort of diplomatic stance puts on them. Furthermore, not all species function the same way, the spathi can be extremely cowardly, but that's just because it jumps out to us. They would consider all humans to be exhibiting certain types of emotions and notice such things.

More examples: if you look at the kzer-za, it's not so much that they are all the same, but rather that they are simply explaining to you their official policy with regards to alien races. For the illwrath, only those devoted to the worship of the twin gods would ever find themselves in a position to be a commander. Some species do show individual differences, the pkunk are essentially a different faction within the yehat, some yehat tend to caring for shofixti, some yehat join you in the revolution, their queen has a sense of individualy, we know about clan warfare and so on. The mycon are all mind controlled, so they should act the same way. The VUX have admiral ZEX.

Hmm. Cheap? Can't say I agree Grin
Among the Ilwrath and others, sure, there can be such a selection for commanders. Doesn't mean that they pay so much attention to the 'correct-mindedness' of those who have lesser ranks Wink (regular grunts, for instance)
And yes, the constraints of diplomatic contact can mean that the members of alien races seem more uniform than they are. I don't see how that invalidates my ideas, though Tongue

Regarding the Pkunk, information on it is limited, but they seem like a whole different subrace (or even race) to the Yehat, rather than just a faction. The biological differences between them (as far as we can see) seem pretty significant.

ZEX and the Yehat queen are single persons, individuals. I was speaking about wider groups, not just lone unique exceptions. And I did mention the differences within the Yehat in the OP.

Finally, I'm not sure 'mind-controlled' is the right term to use for the Mycon. It seems more like that in each body they have a main personality, plus multiple others (its ancestors), which sometimes take over the body for a bit. So this mind-control/possession is hardly consistent.
4  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 19, 2013, 12:29:46 am
I'd say there's some support for that in canon, the Ilwrath at the homeworld imply there was some form of religious upheaval in their past (while adding yet another joke onto the heap Cheesy):

Quote
During The Dark Ages, Yes, We Were Confused By The Many Gods.
There Were Dozens Of Deities Ranging From Zith Of The Pelt
To Awk Of The Seds.
It Was Only Through The Careful Formation Of A Priestly Ruling Body
That The Ilwrath Were Able To Determine The True Gods Dogar And Kazon!
This New Priestly Cabal Revealed That We Must Discard All Other Gods
Be They Of Hearth Or Flowing Web.
Only The Priests Were Capable Of Interpreting The Will Of The Gods.
Their Order Refined Our Worship Until We Could Do No Better.
Specifically, All Heretics Were To Be Eaten,
And All Possessions Were To Be Delivered To The Holy Sites
Or The Priestly Dwellings.


That said, it doesn't seem to me that the Ilwrath should be taken all that seriously, since their main purpose really is to parody Always Chaotic Evil...  Tongue (I think the fact that they have room for a sensible backstory in a *parody* race is yet more evidence of TFB's writing genius.)
Yeah, I know they weren't meant to be serious Smiley
But as you said, I found room for such an interpretation nevertheless. Though I really can't say the same for some of the other 'joke races', as was mentioned in the OP.
5  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 18, 2013, 11:03:54 pm
Well, it's time for the Ilwrath part.

What we see in-game is a civilization of essentially card-carrying villains. They kill, maim, torture, eat babies & Pkunk eggs, and are absolutely gleeful about it. The Pkunk say the Ilwrath used to be much different, though considering who said claim is coming from, it should of course be taken with a grain of salt Tongue
Plus they say they are dedicated to being evil, which raises the nice little paradox you may remember ("If you find evil a positive value, wouldn't that actually by definition make it good from your perspective?")

Now, let's try to imagine a somewhat realistic society that works like that, more or less.

In short: it's a nightmare.

The fact that they'd consider what they used to think of as 'evil' to be good indeed seems like a confirmation that they had a thorough reversal of what constitutes commonly accepted values, and that it happened fairly recently (not in ancient history, at least).

A cult like that of Dogar & Kazon wouldn't have come to power peacefully. Their bloodthirstiness would ensure that. For this same reason as well as the total intolerance that comes with it, the D&K ideology doesn't seem particularly sustainable... ecologically or socially. The Ilwrath need conquest, otherwise they will consume themselves for lack of other enemies in an orgy of destruction. Designating a 'prey' foe and going off into a holy war against it serves as a cause which can actually unify the Ilwrath for a while... and stave off their self-destructive tendencies. This is a bit reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

Blind fanatism is, of course, very strong. As you might remember, in-game it's stated that there was an occasion when the Umgah pranked the Ilwrath by impersonating their Twin Gods. When their priests dismissed the Umgah announcement as a hoax, the Ilwrath devoured their entire priest caste.

So, it would seem that rather than there being a stable and somewhat bureaucratized theocracy, the leadership is more fluid and prone to coups if whatever current regime isn't perceived to be radical and fundamentalist enough. Various D&K denominations and sects, each seeing itself as the only 'true' faith, fight for dominance and massacres of 'heretics' are common.
There must surely be inquisitions, kind of like the Spanish Inquisition was IRL, but even more brutal.

The way I imagine it, before the cult of Dogar and Kazon took over, there used to be a variety of other religions and worldviews, which were mostly fairly decent - especially when compared to the totalitarian insanity that is the D&K theocracy.

What may have brought  the D&K gang to power is a combination of terrorist threats against those in power (which, given the nature of this cult, would have been very effective), dissatisfaction with some existing ruling religions (the anti-social aspects of the D&K religion may have started as a revolt against overly strict dogma, and spiralled out of control from there), personality disorders among some (the D&K faith seems tailor made for a psychopath, doesn't it? Wink) and perhaps some crazy traditions. Also, the more sociopathic and unscrupulous Ilwrath may have jumped on the D&K bandwagon once it started becoming a significant threat, both for reasons of self-preservation and for material gain.

Finally, when the cult started gaining ground fast and toppling pre-existing institutions, regular people would join out of fear and pretend they were devout worshippers. Of course, in a cult that thrives on - and even demands - torture and killing, maintaining the mask without breaking down or even succumbing to insanity is easier said than done...

Obviously, by the time the opponents of D&K realized how bad things are and started properly uniting, it was too late. In a blaze of carnage, they were largely wiped out - with most of the remnants being weeded out by inquisitorial secret services.

Ilwrath people who think differently, don't really believe in Dogar & Kazon and are not raging killing machines do exist in the SC2 era, but they're by necessity very good at hiding. If they slip for even a moment, off they go to the torture chambers and a slow, painful death.
It would thus be very difficult to find such people, as they would only open up if they're certain nobody dangerous is watching (so, prisoners of war might actually come forward, but whether they'd be believed is another matter).
So, they generally know very few other Ilwrath who are like them (unless they're part of some secret commune). This constant masquerade and (effectively) isolation can't be good for their nerves.

It's also likely that, as previously mentioned, they had to kill and even torture possibly innocent people to stay alive. Thus the difference between them and actual D&K fanatics can get... blurred. They'd be faced with the question: is willing to be a monster for one's self-preservation really that much better than being a monster due to religion and/or fun?
There's a constant risk of breaking apart and becoming one of the insane psychos. Only those with the strongest will can persevere... and the cost is likely to be tremendous.


Well, there it is! What do you think? I hope it makes sense Smiley
6  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 18, 2013, 08:10:45 pm
I think my Peeru fanfic avoids the planet of hats problem as much as possible given the setting.
Nice! Sadly, I once started reading it, but then stopped for some reason. I really should get back to it some day...
7  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 18, 2013, 05:33:51 pm
So, time for some speculation fun! As promised, I'll start.

Some races I find hard to analyze, simply due to not being able to take them seriously. Spathi, Pkunk, Syreen and Zoq-Fot-Pik would be examples.
There are others who are just too uniform and, well, alien (Mycon, Chmmr, Orz); or not much info was given for them (Supox).

The two that I focused on are Ur-Quan (both subraces) and - perhaps surprisingly - Ilwrath.


First, the Kzer-Za.

The way I imagined it, they would be loosely divided into three groups (or 'parties' if you will, but there's no formal organization to it).

The largest one, to which say 70-75% of the Kzer-Za population would adhere to, is the 'conservative' group (not to be mixed with the real-world political persuasion, to immediately dispel that flamebait Wink). These are the greens we all know and love - galactic overlords who carry a really big stick and no carrot, and see their slave races as prisoners at best and cannon fodder at worst.

A smaller subset, about 10-15%, would be the 'pro-alien' lot. Make no mistake, they still believe that the 'Path of Now and Forever' is the right way to go... it's just that their interpretation of it is a bit different. They emphasize the 'protection of other races from themselves & external threats' part more, giving it serious thought, rather than just focusing on the 'security of the Ur-Quan' aspect. These are the Kzer-Za who, as captains, are likely to treat their alien slaves somewhat like actual crew, that is to say relatively 'humanely'... though they still won't exactly be chummy with them.
These Kzer-Za, as is typical, do consider alien races inferior - but see the Ur-Quan role in relation to them more as 'benevolent dictators to the misguided' than 'ruthless jailers of dangerous inmates for all eternity'.
So, it's not that they differ radically from the 'conservatives' in their worldview, as both share it on many points; rather, it's about what they emphasize and how they see themselves and aliens.

IIRC the Syreen mentioned an Ur-Quan called 'Master 9', who after accepting their surrender gave them the coordinates to their new homeworld, and was in general unusually helpful. This one might be a prominent member of the 'pro-alien' school of thought.


The final major group, also at 10-15%, would be those who would like the Kzer-Za to adopt the Kohr-Ah's 'Eternal Doctrine'. These are the types who would see alien life as just too dangerous to let live (especially after the shock that is the successful slave rebellion (the events of SC2), the neo-Dnyarri and losing the Sa-Matra). They would be in favor of reconciliation and unification with the Kohr-Ah.


There could also be a tiny minority (<1%) who think that both Doctrines are wrong and that the Ur-Quan should adopt a more friendly approach to aliens, like the one they had in the old Milieu days. The members of this group would have to be quiet though, as other Kzer-Za would not look upon them positively... quite the contrary in fact.

Of course, some Kzer-Za would be of the sadistic taskmaster kind... on whose starship it'd be a real bummer to be assigned to as a slave. These Kzer-Za would be either of the 'pro-ED' ("Slaves just want to kill us anyway, so we should use them as cannon fodder") or the 'conservative' group ("Slaves are inferior and expendable, thus it's acceptable to beat 'em up").


I'm not really comfortable with the idea of all green Ur-Quan being completely for the PoNaF, and all black ones being entirely ED. It might make sense that a small number of each valued their dissenting opinion more than 'subrace-loyalty', and joined those who followed their preferred doctrine even though that faction is strongly dominated by the other subrace. So you'd have a small number of blacks in the Kzer-Za fleet, and some greens among the Kohr-Ah.
Which could be interesting considering that the Dnyarri genetically engineered the subraces to excel at different tasks... so, there might be some tension regarding their roles (who does what). For instance, the greens were made to be better leaders, but if they featured prominently in positions of authority among the Kohr-Ah, the black Ur-Quan might be disgruntled, feeling that their small green minority holds too much power in proportion to their numbers, and/or that they have a superiority complex.
Adds a bit of variety and spice to the otherwise monolithic Kohr-ah, yes? Smiley

Similarly, there might be some issues with black Ur-Quan among the Kzer-Za. They were bred to be workers and soldiers (as in grunts, not commanders), so many green Kzer-Za would be unfavorable towards blacks going for more 'cerebral' professions (does this remind you of anything? Lips Sealed). Thus black Ur-Quan would face some obstacles when it comes to rising in the Kzer-Za hierarchy.


Regarding the Kohr-Ah themselves... they can have a similar setup to that of the Kzer-Za: most being classical Eternal Doctrine followers, but there being a subset of 15% or so who feel they might be going a bit too harshly on the aliens. At least prior to the events of SC2, they'd assert that the PoNaF looks successful and safe enough, so they can be a force pushing for closer relations with the Kzer-Za. After the destruction of the Sa-Matra, this worldview would come into a bit of a crisis Wink


The way I see it, both Ur-Quan collectives would tolerate difference in opinion in their own ranks, as long as it doesn't interfere with the application of their doctrines. So basically, as long as you support the troops and serve in the navy, there might be some venomous looks but you'll avoid the banhammer Grin


Btw. speaking of Masters and Lords... I'm thinking both would be Kzer-Za ranks, perhaps with Masters being higher than Lords? While the number that follows the title could be either merely their designation, or actual weight of authority (e.g. Lord 3 would be superior to Lord 999)?
Furthermore, the Masters could then have access to newer and better ships. For instance, the Lords could have vanilla UQM dreadnoughts, while Masters get the awesome Balance Mod ship (better main gun, much improved fighters, point defense and all!) Tongue Grin

Of course, it makes no sense that there would be only one class of ship for each race, but that's another matter. (and was necessary due to gameplay)


Well, I'll discuss the Ilwrath in my next post.

I hope you don't mind my rambling! Alas, this post reminded me of just how much my English vocabulary is limited. At several points I struggled to find the right word (and I don't think I succeeded in some cases), and my paragraphs sometimes seemed repetitive and monotonous due to over-using some word. So I hope the end result isn't too much of a chore and bore to read! Wink
8  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Challenge: Subvert the 'Planet of hats'! on: January 18, 2013, 02:16:39 pm
Hello again, everyone!

I've been away from this place for... 2 and a half years now. In other words, it's been a while. Cue "Who's this guy and what does he want?" Tongue

Nevertheless, during that time I did visit the community a few times (in lurker form) to see what's going on with some of the ongoing projects here. Looking forward to seeing some finished ones Smiley

But now, it's time for some business idle speculation! See, that's what nudged me to finally come here properly (that is, vocally Tongue)

Thing is, I've had an idea for a while now that's been bouncing in my mind. Not Star Control, mind you, but Fallout. A fanfic. Which I intend to start writing, once I finish a different project and find enough time. But that is not the topic today.

Closer to the topic at hand is that I had another idea. One that might make for a SC fanfic, though I don't think I'll ever write this one... I suppose it'll always remain just an idea until it fades from my memory Undecided

The story would be set in a period that got little mention as background info in the SC universe (given by the Melnorme). Specifically, the short interval between the liberation of the remaining Sentient Milieu races from the Dnyarri, and the enslavement or destruction of the non-Ur-Quan ones (Faz, Yuptar, Mael-Num).

I suppose it would start with the rebellion (from Kzer-Za's action onwards), and continue into the period following the victory. This is where the newly free races face the 'What now?' question. They were mind-controlled for what, 2500 years? That means they've basically forgotten what life used to be like before the Dnyarri (other than perhaps the Ur-Quan, if they indeed have some sort of genetic memory). The setting would be rather dark and bleak; for disorientation and lack of direction are not the only problems. I seem to remember some mention by the Melnorme of long-term mind control affecting individuals' mental health... and that would show in this story. There would be a lot of unstable people, and sanity would be 'in short supply', to borrow the phrase.

The protagonists would be a group of people (one at last for each race, though not necessarily all together at the same time) who broke free of the Dnyarri control by fighting together. They'd be on the main Milieu world which was mentioned by the Melnorme, and which presumably has multiple races living on it. As the story goes on, some of them might separate from the party, to go to their respective homeworlds or elsewhere.

As everyone struggles to survive in the new circumstances and come to terms with what happened, there would be hints of things to come. Like many of the Ur-Quan, both green and black, acting in an increasingly strange and distrustful manner towards other races (how the Ur-Quan 'companions' from the abovementioned group dealt with and what they thought of that might be an interesting point). Then, the Ur-Quan would pretty much all disappear, and rumors of them collectively gathering at some point in space would reach the others. Nobody would know what to make of this, until the Ur-Quan return and it's too late. (it is on these assemblies that the two infamous Doctrines would be composed and accepted)
The story would end with the Mael-Num (Melnorme) exodus, and the main characters having met their various ends: slave-shielded, dead, escaped and/or joined the Ur-Quan fleets (with misgivings).


But not even that is the topic today, though feel free to comment on it if you wish Wink
The reason I told you of my story idea is that it was the source that led to my thinking about the topic. But I've beat around the bush (is that the correct phrase?) enough, so without further ado, here's what this is all about.

TV Tropes describes a phenomenon known as 'Planet of Hats' (short definition here). Once you see what that trope refers to, I'm sure you'll easily recognize how applicable it is to SC2 (and Star Control in general). Just about every race - with the notable exception of Yehat, and even they don't show all that much variety - is pretty monolithical. Thinking about the Ur-Quan in regards to the story I laid out above got me thinking... what might individuals think about the general direction of their races, and what sort of dissenting opinions are there?

So, what I'd like now is for us to think of plausible differences/subdivisions of thought within the races of SC2. Those of you who have played Mass Effect (whose creators performed the greatest heist of SC ideas ever Tongue) have seen what it can be like to have fleshed-out races with significant internal differences... though in Mass Effect that was more individualized, while here I'm thinking of a more general picture (you'll see what I mean when I give my example in the next post, below this one).
9  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Professional off-shoot of Star Control on: June 21, 2010, 02:31:46 pm
So... another dead project? Undecided
10  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: engine on kohr-ah planet destroyer on: June 21, 2010, 12:48:58 pm
Why does this remind me of 2009. Star Trek movie? :S
This.
11  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Missing dialogue? on: June 17, 2010, 09:13:33 pm
Hmm, to me the Kzer-Za voice seemed too... forced. Attempting to sound evil, yet ending up somewhat silly instead.
On the other hand, the Kohr-Ah one was the one which, of all the UQM voices, sounds truly perfect.
12  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Most boring battle? on: June 06, 2010, 04:31:09 pm
Mmrnmhrm, for whoever is the other player (unless they have a really fast ship).
13  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: What makes Star Control II great? on: June 06, 2010, 04:29:56 pm
Other: All of the above. Yeah. Cool
14  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: working on a star control animation need feedback on my 3d models on: June 04, 2010, 05:00:24 pm
Well, I like all of them Smiley
15  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: You post the ship, I'll tell you why it sucks. on: May 30, 2010, 09:02:47 pm
And I agree with you. Many ships aren't designed for supermelee, they are plot-devices so you can solve the game (see: Chmmr)

This is something I've never understood. Whenever I try to fight anything with the Avatar, I almost always die, especially against Marauders. They're supposed to be good against the Ur Quan but I have yet to see any evidence of this.

Correction: they're supposed to be good against Ur-Quan Kzer-Za. The Chmmr had no idea the Kohr-Ah existed Wink
Indeed, think about it: the Avatar's ZapSats are excellent for picking off fighters launched by the Dreadnought. The Avatar is a powerful capital ship matching the Dreadnought (though that's also a weakness, as the X-form's mobility tends to be better suited for picking a Dreadnought apart from afar, and thus not sustain any damage). While it might sustain heavy damage in the process, the Avatar will almost always win in a dogfight between them.

Let's also keep in mind the other known craft Hierarchy races had...

The Avatar outperforms the Intruder (and its satellites render the VUX limpets completely harmless).
The Avenger and the Drone will be shot down before they can inflict any serious damage.
The Podship can do some damage, but the tractor beam stops it from keeping distance and gives it no time to resurrect crew.
The Discriminator is completely harmless.

In fact, the only vessel which poses a significant threat to it is the Androsynth Guardian (and the Dreadnought can inflict considerable damage, of course). But apart from these weaknesses, the Avatar is quite well suited to fighting any Hierarchy ship. Only the Discriminator and the Guardian in Blazer form possess a drive powerful enough to escape the tractor beam and the deadly laser which accompanies it.
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