Hmm, good point... maybe the Slylandro would be killed too.

Um... let's go with "no"?

But only once you have the cloaking device, which (presumably) would be hard to find. It could even be deep within Ur-Quan space, meaning you need to risk encountering the Ur-Quan in order to find it at all.

And there are really three separate possibilities for the cloak. It could hide you only in a star system, or it could hide you only in HyperSpace, or it could hide you in both. I think perhaps the first would be best.

(Of course there's also the possibility of a cloak in combat, but I don't think I would like that as much. I don't like the Ilwrath's cloak because it's almost impossible to tell which direction I'm facing while using it.)

The computer is better with timing, though. If the computer is controlling it, it will shield at just the right moment (usually) to avoid taking damage. You're probably right about it not shielding against the F.R.I.E.D. – I haven't noticed that – but it generally does a better job avoiding damage from the primary weaponry.

And yes, it does work in this theme. Yay!

Why?

The Utwig is hard to handle effectively. I think it usually does a better job when controlled by the computer.


And using Spathi would be annoyingly slow.

Reading this thread from the beginning, I found several things to respond to, but seem to have forgotten most of them. Oh well...

The Mycon seem more technology advanced, which probably means stronger hyperspace broadcasts.

I'm not convinced the Mycon use hyperwave broadcasts at all....

the demise of Earth would have ensured that the Arilou would stay out of the conflict.

I don't think the Arilou would allow this to happen so easily.

About the arilou - they are outside the timeline , so *when* they discover Humans destroyed , they would *rewind* time and warn humans and whoever they see fit maybe even   before the Kohr-Ah fleet reaches this quadrant .

I'm pretty sure the Arilou are not able to do that.

Now... the Burvixese are the first race in the sector to be exterminated. Consider the state of the sector at that time.

• The Utwig and the Supox are much the same as in SC2, except that the Utwig still have a functional Ultron.
• The Druuge are back in their sphere of influence, probably with their hyperwave casters still silenced.
• The Mycon are in their area of space. I don't know if they use hyperwave signals for communication.
• The Syreen are, depending on the exact timeframe, either still on Syra or just heading out from Syra in their habitat fleet.
• The VUX, Yehat, and Shofixti are much as in SC1&2.
• The Androsynth are still around, as in SC1, and the Orz are unaware of this area of space. I have no idea if the Taalo could do anything; probably not though.
• If humans have space flight, they have only just attained it. (I mean space flight capable of travelling between planets in a reasonable time, not the Apollo mission.)
• The Ilwrath probably don't even have space flight capability. If I recall correctly, the Ur-Quan were responsible for giving them space flight.
• The Chenjesu are in the Procyon(?) area, and the Mmrnmhrm are just "north" of them.
• The Pkunk, Thraddash, Umgah, and Spathi are much as in SC2.
• The Arilou are watching from afar.
• The Melnorme are probably in the sector, since they knew about the Druuge's deal with the Utwig.
• The Zoq-Fot-Pik are much as in SC2, but it's possible they aren't yet capable of space flight. If not, they would have no colonies.
• Did I miss anyone?

The Kohr-Ah would march upon the Utwig first. The Utwig would fall, but not without putting a significant dent in the Kohr-Ah forces. Their ships are superior to the Marauders, and they also have a Precursor bomb which could do major damage (though I don't think it would wipe out a third of the Kohr-Ah fleet as it did at Delta Gorno – detonating it normally would presumably be less effective than detonating it on the edge of a star). Once the Utwig have fallen, the Supox would fall soon after.

But wait – the Utwig have the Ultron. Might it not be possible that the Ultron will instruct them to send scouts to other races in the sector? Or possibly send some ships away where they will be safe in the event of a Kohr-Ah victory? Or maybe even both. Suppose the Utwig contact the Chenjesu, the Yehat, the Androsynth, and possibly the VUX. This gives a chance for the Alliance to form before the Kohr-Ah are even aware of it. If they're smart, they'll wait for the Kohr-Ah rather than going to meet them across the galaxy in Utwig space.

So, once the Supox have fallen, it's hard to say who will be next. There are two possibilities as I see it: either they go toward the Thraddash, stopping off at the Zoq-Fot-Pik if they find them, and then move on to the Umgah. (The Slylandro will remain undetected since I'm pretty sure they haven't yet purchased their Probe, and that's the only thing that would draw the Kohr-Ah's attention to them.) OR, they will exterminate the Druuge and then move on to the Mycon. I'll call them Scenario A and Scenario B, respectively.

In Scenario A, they come rushing through Umgah space only to come up against the Chenjesu forces, backed by the Mmrnmhrm and the Yehat and possibly even the Utwig scouts. The Androsynth may also join, but I doubt the VUX or the Spathi will. They will take significant losses, but the Chenjesu will eventually be defeated. At this point, they'll wipe out the Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, and Ilwrath homeworlds, while the Yehat retreat to defend their own area of space, probably accompanied by Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm stragglers and maybe even by humans and Androsynth.

I think the Spathi will probably survive. Some people have pointed out that they'll probably hide and be exterminated, but I think it's more likely that they'll simply flee their homeworld to escape the Kohr-Ah. If they go back towards Arcturus, there's a chance the Kohr-Ah will never even know they existed. And with the exception of the Pkunk, their ships are the fastest in the sector, so they wouldn't have a problem evading the Kohr-Ah if they were discovered.

If the humans have joined, the next battle would probably be at Earth. The Arilou would be helpful here, but defeat is inevitable. The Kohr-Ah would probably take significant losses again from both the remaining Chenjesu and from the human nukes, but when it's clear there's no way to win I think the Arilou would spirit away the humans right under their noses, possibly to Unzervalt, so that when the Kohr-Ah finally arrive at Earth they find it abandoned. Then the remaining forces would retreat to Delta Gorno. They would probably have some time to get organized while the Kohr-Ah turn against the VUX, suffering still more losses against ZEX's superior tactics. However, despite this, the VUX would fall fairly quickly, and then the Kohr-Ah would suffer the greatest losses yet when Delta Gorno goes supernova. Then the Yehat, also greatly reduced by the war, would make a last stand at their homeworld. Once they are defeated, the Kohr-Ah would make short work of the remaining races: Mycon, Syreen, and Druuge. Oh, and the Androsynth as well. Then the Kohr-Ah would go on to initiate the Doctrinal Conflict, and with the losses they've suffered at the hands of the Alliance they would lose.

Oh, wait, I forgot the Pkunk. Let's suppose they join the Yehat in their last stand, and are defeated and destroyed along with them. So, the surviving races are: Arilou, humans, Spathi, and possibly some Utwig and Supox stragglers. The humans only survive due to the Arilou's help, and even so they are probably decimated. The Spathi survive due to their cowardice. Perhaps once the Kohr-Ah have moved on the Spathi and humans will both return to their homeworlds. Oh, and it's up in the air whether the Zoq-Fot-Pik survive. Probably not though.

In Scenario B, they come rushing through Mycon space, also destroying the Syreen in passing, and clash with the VUX. (Remember they have already suffered significant losses against the Utwig.) ZEX's tactics are quite effective, but in the end the VUX fall. I think they would turn to the Yehat next, rather than the Androsynth. The Yehat would be backed by the Chenjesu, Shofixti, Mmrnmhrm, possibly Umgah, possibly humans, and possibly Pkunk. The presence or absence of Umgah is irrelevant; they're pretty much useless. In this scenario, I think the Yehat would be destroyed before the Shofixti's last stand at Delta Gorno, destroying a third of the Kohr-Ah fleet. The Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm would retreat to Earth with any Yehat stragglers, and the Arilou would appear. They would hold off the Kohr-Ah for a little while, long enough for the Arilou to spirit away a good chunk of Earth's population. Then the survivors (primarily Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm, with possibly a few Yehat or humans left, and maybe some Pkunk) would retreat to Chenjesu space, and eventually be defeated (though not without significant losses to the Kohr-Ah). Once the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm are gone, the Ilwrath would be destroyed, followed by the Umgah and the Androsynth. The Androsynth would probably resist fairly well, but only delaying the inevitable. Then all that's left is the Thraddash and, if they find them, the Zoq-Fot-Pik. So the end result is the same: humans survive due to Arilou intervention, Spathi survive due to cowardice, and a few Utwig may survive due to foresight. And again the Kohr-Ah will lost the Doctrinal conflict.




So. While the details may differ, I think there are two things that are almost certain if the Kohr-Ah had arrived before the Kzer-Za. The first is that the human race will survive. The second is that the Kohr-Ah will lose the Doctrinal Conflict due to the losses they have taken from the races in this sector.[/list]

Hmm, thanks. I've changed my theme.

Well, I've had a number of thoughts on Slylandro. Since they're totally mechanical, it seems to make more sense for them to be able to recruit more crew on a mine, rather than a colony.

But so are the Mmrnmhrm, and they recruit at a colony. Though the Slylandro may be exceptional enough for this apparent discrepancy to make sense. The Mmrnmhrm may be mechanical, but their ships can carry crew of other races. I'm not sure the same is true about the Probes.

Because in SC2 they're only a destructive force, I don't think I'd let them colonize, mine, or fortify planets.

This makes sense.

But because they use their destructiveness to replicate, I think I'd also make it so that when they destroy an enemy's colony, mine, or fortification, a new probe is created. (I've also considered making that the case for any battle they emerge victorious from, but I'm not as sure about that idea.)

This makes sense too.

Also, the Probe should be a neutral ship, in that either side could have one... since they are after all sold by the Melnorme.

I have an unfounded suspicion that adding the SC2 ships would unbalance the strategic game so they might be restricted to the melee game.

Well, since each scenario specifies exactly which ships can be built, I don't think that would be a problem. If you add them, you still won't be able to use them in the original scenarios, only in new ones.

But my suggestion is quite different from the Ilwrath cloak. The Ilwrath cloak is a combat ability, but my idea was more of a stealth thing. You could sneak all around a star system without the ships ever seeing you (unless you attack one).

No. the Jugger is better. It's difficult, but possible to destroy either a Dreadnought or a Marauder without taking any damage.

And the Avatar is still pretty good. It can destroy a Dreadnought pretty quickly, though not without taking damage itself (and possible losing one or more ZapSats)

Yeah, you're probably right...

And those ideas for SC2 ships are kind of interesting.

Um... I was thinking more about abilities for the remaining SC1 races, since that's what UAF was talking about...

A special ability to each ship will also be great (right now the only "spcial abilities" are the Arilou's ability to pass fortifications and the Ur-quan's ability to singlehandedly destroy them, IIRC).

Well, at least that means that both sides have a ship with a special ability.

But, what special abilities would you give each of the other ships?