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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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1  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Parle vous Yehatizz?No? And how about VUXan? That neither? Ok, and how about... on: July 31, 2009, 07:41:10 am
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Joyous Lifting told me he changed it to nine hundred ninety-nine
the highest setting on the dial.

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In our long history, several of our people have tried to work with objects
constructing weapons and other tools from the carcasses of dead beasts
but eventually, whatever it was they were building got too heavy
and dragged them down to the Depths.

Hook a gas bladder up to a computer and voila.
2  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Stinger on: July 28, 2009, 05:17:01 pm
I tend to think the Korh-Ah must have had the territorial instinct bred out of them. They don't take slaves and there are obviously a full crew on their ships. Otherwise, as others pointed out, the Syreen song wouldn't work. You can capture their crew and take them back to the starbase and sell them. Or trade them for Druuge goods. That would indicate real life forms.

Gameplay > Realism. Anything dealing with crew, in the game, just doesn't correlate directly to canon. The mechanics of melee and the special abilities are quite a bit of fun as is. There is no need to try and force a correlation when it's much more likely just a gameplay feature to keep combat simple. Thus, anything carried over from combat would also need to be simplified in the story mode.

It could be possible that 'crew' includes both staff and the hull of a ship. Who knows, if you dump a bunch of psionics into a Kohr-Ah, it may just flail about, knocking off pieces of its ship that are good enough for a penetrator to utilize. In other situations, as crew leave a ship, they may just be taking pieces of it with them, only to let go of them as they float in space. Is there any canon that says that the number of crew that a syreen picks up is 1 to 1 with the real-live staff on the ship?

The Tobermoon arrives at Sol with full crew, even though the Captain of the ship died.
The 1900 staff limit can be broken without Shofixti.
3  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Stinger on: July 27, 2009, 11:48:17 pm
It's just game mechanics. The number of men on each ship doesn't directly correlate to the 'crew' value.


I mean, does it look like 6 shofixiti can fit in that thing?

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Maybe I'll even make the trip to your planet!
        I'd make a good starship captain, Captain!
        I'm pretty darn mean in a fight
        and there ain't nobody better than me
        with a thrusting stinger tongue attack!

Just a quote from the ZFP conversation, the Springy dude somewhat implies that Stingers have only a single captain and not  a triplet set.
4  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Stinger on: July 27, 2009, 10:35:51 am
Is the Maurader not manned by a single Kohr-Ah?
5  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for Ilwrath on: July 15, 2009, 02:28:26 am
Oh come on, you guys are all up in a hissy over nothing. All I did was say that the Jugger can beat every ship. Every ship has some way that CAN beat the Jugger, but the Jugger has no legitimate counter. It just doesn't lose consistently to anything, there is no solid jugger-killer. Excuse me for using an extreme statement like, "Utwig > All", but it's inherently vague- not really intended to attack anyone's sense of what is best. I went with defending it mostly for fun, to see what kind of match-ups people profess, but honestly, provoking shiver's rudeness (well, he more or less volunteered) was the more interesting aspect of the conversation. I've had years of experience playing this game person to person-- the Jugger is just the most solid ship out there. Of course it can be beat, of course it can lose, but there isn't anything that really takes it on consistently. A fresh Jugger vs a fresh anything else is never an easy fight. Just thinking in odds- even the holy blazer can't cut it that consistently. Most of my statements were exaggerations to begin with, though that doesn't mean to imply the extremeties of absolutes. "Pwn" and ">" signs should never be taken seriously... The idea behind it, that the Jugger is a more than comparable ship to any other ship out there, isn't illegitimate in the least. I can't think of another ship that can beat every other ship AND beat MOST every other ship with incredible consistency and unmatched longevity. So if I'm wrong-- What ships beat it consistently? What ships make a Jugger the equivalent to cannon fodder? I'd sincerely like to know.

The intruder vs jugger match-up I can't recall very well, but I do remember that the range, turning radius, and speed of a jugger, coupled with an orbital, is plenty to avoid limpets and kill and intruder. You can pulse the intruder's primary in the opening sneak attack to prevent gains on the Jugger's batt or you can hit it with a couple limpets (or both ofc), but the manueverability of the intruder is still going to allow a limpeted jugger to find an LOF, especially if the Jugger can hit max throttle and cruise before getting hit with the limpets. If early limpeting/batt drain doesn't happen, a Jugger can bide his time in an orbital where the intruder has no advantage. I see the Jugger limping away or losing if hit by enough limpets, but I don't know about calling it a 'good' match-up. I'd be happy to have this explained to me.

The cruiser vs avatar match-up was a freak of nature and a fluke, I just said that it happened, not that it could be reproduced with any degree of consistency. A response to the Mauler vs Jugger. It involved a very tight and very careful orbital...

I haven't played SC melee in around 15 years, I'm not really keen on getting back into it as an adult. Though a part of me would find pleasure in the nostalgia, I couldn't make enough time for it to take it seriously. I'm certain that in a relatively short period of time I would make a challenging opponent, sadly it isn't something that interests me enough.
6  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Ur-Quan lost link on: July 12, 2009, 05:04:49 am
I think the main concern is that Ur-Quan just aren't social creatures and their scouting methods are solitary.

In the wilds of their homeworld, they probably had a breeding method something like.... man finds woman, jungle sex, then they never see each other again. After the momma gives birth, she leaves the eggs in the wild. Eggs hatch and the baby hatchlings all eat each other. Last caterpillar standing gets enough to make it to the next stage of their growth.

It's hard to say, but they do say that their scoutships are solitary, and Ur-Quan don't live forever, so it's just too far fetched for them to have some remote colony that the Dnyarri can't find out about (there would records and trade between colonies). There may be brown ur-quan artifacts all over the galaxy, but it'd be tough to make an argument for live brownies.

The best bet would be, against all sociopathic urge to kill each other, two ur-quan scouts meet in space and fall in love and live in a monogamous lifestyle. They seperate their young from eating each other at birth and somehow transcend their killer instinct to make the third offshoot, Plush-Quan. Over 20k years of isolation and a pastoral life, they develop a peaceful independent colony. Kzer-Za or Kohr-Ah find the colony and leave it be because it is Ur-Quan, and the doctrines are intended to protect ALL Ur-Quan (unless you are a part of the debate).

I don't see them having any kind of important plot device... except maybe some awesome history and perhaps some precursor artifacts on hand-- but they'd have an eye kept on them by contemporary Ur-Quan. Whether or not the doctrinal forces are keen on allowing them to move around or not is tough to determine.

It all hinges on them swallowing their urge to kill each other and NOT information the Ur-Quan command structure that they were forming a colony. It's kind of deceptive in a way, and the Ur-Quan never lies!

In a sequel, it's a pretty big stretch-- but it is fiction. The Thraddash had contemplative cultures, the Pkunk left the Yehat... there are several possible things going on. It'd be an interesting conversation-- they'd have a ton of good history.
7  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: sc2 slides on: July 11, 2009, 11:17:59 pm
oh, der- thanks.
8  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / sc2 slides on: July 11, 2009, 10:22:06 pm
Is there any place where the original sc2 slides can be viewed as image files in their original resolution? I'm assuming that the original image resolution from the DOS/3DO/UQM Port are all the same, so I figured I'd just look in the UQM source but I cannot seem to find where they may be. I've found a few on ultronomicon in the proper resolution, but I haven't been able to track down all of them. I have gotten the one I primarily wanted, but I just thought I'd ask if there was someplace where all the original images are stored or where they can be found in the source hierarchy.

Thanks
9  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for Ilwrath on: July 11, 2009, 10:12:31 pm
Shortly after the game was released (back in the day), it was the only game my family had on the family computer. My brother and I would play hypermelee for the next several years as the only form of gaming entertainment. I can't vouch for my skills now, but without lag/latency, the Utwig and Torch are the overall best ships. Typically the only reason why a Jugger would die was due to the key press limitations on old keyboards.

Quote from: spinsane
How so? An Utwig human player should essentially never lose crew or batt in any fight- they are clearly the best in good hands.

The shield is not god mode. There are many ways around it. Melnorme's EMP or VUX's limpets ignore it, for instance. The battery depletes quickly when its opponent has a long range, low damage weapon and faster engines. Among several other ships, Thraddash meets these criteria. You're assuming that perfect shield use is trivial, when it is not. I've beaten Utwig using Druuge against some very good Utwig players -- if perfect shielding were easy, they would have rolled right over me. Utwig is indeed one of the best ships in PVP, but it's ludicrous to declare that it beats everything.

EMP is just about the only way, and it's still not an easy fight for other reasons. Many 1-hitters fire off multiple shots per button press, and most don't have the range to make the hits count. Intruders don't beat Juggers even if you do hit them with a few limpets. I didn't mean to suggest that an Utwig will kill an infinite amount of ships, just that by and large it is clearly the best overall ship- if two fresh ships start and one of them is a Jugger, the Jugger shouldn't lose (even against Norme). Druuge vs Utwig win? Oookay... in a freak match I've killed a fresh chmmr with a fresh cruiser (my most memorable experience in SC- oh it was epic...), but that is by no means a precedence. IDEALLY a player doesn't lose anything, but even if they do, Jugger still wins.


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Torch is too fast/manueverable and it's primary has excellent range. The booster has the added bonus of blocking most attacks and zips across the screen faster than most ships can turn. And that pea-shooter is just OP-- it has enough range/rof to take on a Terminator and is also one of the more solid 30 point killers. Those space rhinos are scrappy in the right hands.

Oh Thraddash is definitely overpowered beyond belief, but how the hell do you kill a half-decent player's Kohr-Ah? If you can do that, you need to get in #uqm-arena like yesterday. I'd love to have another difficult opponent around. More likely, though, you have no experience to back up what you're saying. People who don't even play PVP shouldn't go around telling others how it works. There's enough misinformation about melee floating around as it is.

Maurader vs Torch is one of the tougher match-ups for the Torch, but it's range/speed is ample (IMO- if two gods were playing the game, the Torch would typically win). Torch isn't as universal as the Jugger and it's tougher to use, but that pea-shooter will win given enough persistence. Yes, Torch is a boring ship to fight against, but its match-ups aren't nearly as bad as the Eluder vs Terminator match-up.
10  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for Ilwrath on: July 11, 2009, 08:11:59 pm
How so? An Utwig human player should essentially never lose crew or batt in any fight- they are clearly the best in good hands.

Torch is too fast/manueverable and it's primary has excellent range. The booster has the added bonus of blocking most attacks and zips across the screen faster than most ships can turn. And that pea-shooter is just OP-- it has enough range/rof to take on a Terminator and is also one of the more solid 30 point killers. Those space rhinos are scrappy in the right hands.
11  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Announcing a New Map Poster... on: July 11, 2009, 07:46:16 am
It does look nice!- I was wondering, does anybody have the special edition white starmap? It's about twice the size of the original black one and is a little prettier.
12  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for Ilwrath on: July 11, 2009, 07:42:47 am
Orz are not fast enough and their rapid shots don't confuse the Slylandro enough. It works out poorly.
Yeah, I thought speed might be an issue.

Thraddash are fairly good against them though, I would suspect.

lol- thraddash are good against EVERYTHING. Except maybe utwig... then again Utwing is the best...

Thraddash wins against Utwig too, because the Utwig just doesn't shield against the afterburner most of the time. This also happens with Kohr-Ah FRIED.

That is one thing with the AI I really don't understand.

In PvP-- Thraddash and Utwig > all. There isn't really anything that either lose to with any degree of solidity. They just pwn everything. OFC- Utwig > all, Thraddash > everything but utwig. right...
13  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Tips for Ilwrath on: July 10, 2009, 06:15:48 pm
Orz are not fast enough and their rapid shots don't confuse the Slylandro enough. It works out poorly.
Yeah, I thought speed might be an issue.

Thraddash are fairly good against them though, I would suspect.

lol- thraddash are good against EVERYTHING. Except maybe utwig... then again Utwing is the best...
14  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Ur-Quan lost link on: July 10, 2009, 06:58:03 am
I don't think the Eternal Doctrine > Path of Now and Forever is really so black and white.

I think that they don't consider other races a threat for a very good reason. The Vindicator flying around only gets met with "oh we'll punish earth AFTER we're done with this little interracial spat...". What damage could the Vindicator honestly do? Any race that interferes is attacked by both Quans, and yet while they are fighting BOTH doctrines are on hold. The Kzer-Za don't have the local personnel to enforce enslavement (The battle of Delta Gorno is, according to the Chmmr, the primary reason why the Kzer-Za would lose the doctrinal conflict) and the Kohr-Ah aren't annihilating other races while they fight the conflict.

SC2 is a bunch of freak events and serendipity. The Kzer-Za may have predicted that the Chen/Mrn would seek a synthetic union, and that they may acquire the tech necessary to disable the shield, but they might've known all that would happen after the conflict was over. Their ships are designed to super-destruct on death to destroy their tech and pet. Neither Quan properly dealt with the Utwig *points finger at Primat*. Both Quan would've overlooked Unzervalt due to interference from the other--- That there was a SECOND precursor bomb in the quadrant, that there was a Sun Device that could accelerate the Process, that a Talking Pet was revived to Dnyarri status, and that there was a precursor vessel tough enough to get close enough to the Sa-Matra is all incredibly improbable.

The Chmmr were most likely setup around the doctrinal conflict preparing for a surprise attack after the Sa-Matra is destroyed. IMO- the Sa-Matra escort fleet gets wiped out in the blast. It is composed mostly of Kzer-Za, so that's a LOT of ships that the Kzer-Za have lost to precursor bombs... The Kohr-Ah fleet only really took minor damage from the Utwig/Thraddash/Supox and whatever amount of damage was sustained from the Kzer-Za (which wasn't enough to prevent them from wiping out everybody discluding the Chmmr-- suffice to say that the Chmmr are the camelback breakers). NAFS forces, primarily yehat/chmmr, make enough critical strikes to force the Quans to retreat beyond the Magellanic Clouds.

In all liklihood, the primary production facilities of the Quans are not local to the scope of SC2, so even though both of their combat fleets are forced to retreat (probably to Kzer-Za territory) they will be retreating to familiar terrain where it probably wouldn't be too difficult for them to recooperate their losses. In other words, the threat of the NAFS isn't THAT big a deal in the galactic context. Both Quans still have their respective "empires", the Kohr-Ah fleet may be seperated from their means of production, but that's not necessarily a disadvantage. Kzer-Za supposedly has many battle thralls that they can summon from afar, as well as local battle thralls whose confidence in the NAFS can be crushed (IE- if the Quans got close to Yehat space again, you can be damn sure that the usurper would fall and the old Queen would rise again as per their political engine).

Both doctrines are at fault, or rather, neither doctrine is at fault. The problem was that neither doctrine was being implemented while the conflict took place. The primary lesson that they learn is that doctrinal conflicts, at the scale they were performed, do not help propogate the Quans.

Would this lead to reconciliation? Postponement of conflicts? Reduction of the scale of the conflict? A new doctrine? A third doctrine and more conflict? Mutual peace with NAFS while conflict continues?

It is in the interest of the NAFS that the PoNaF beats the eternal doctrine (much better to fight the Kzer-Za as opposed to the Kohr-Ah or all Ur-Quan). The victor of the doctrinal conflict isn't canon, so it's impossible to say for certain whether or not the ED had time to win before the Sa-Matra was destroyed. This presents a few possible scenarios.

* PoNaF submits to ED- unified Ur-Quan destroys NAFS.
* PoNaF prepares for 3rd doctrinal conflict and the ED destroys the NAFS.
* PoNaF and ED put conflict on hold and destroy NAFS- ED most likely win conflict.
* Additional factional infighting allows NAFS to destroy the Quans.
* NAFS becomes battle thralls under a liberal interpretation of the PoNaF to provide the resources/personnel (but not ships, der) necessary for the PoNaF to defeat the ED. PoNaF doctrine becomes semantically relative....
* NAFS ceases fighting with the Ur-Quan so that the Quans may take their time to determine the doctrinal victor and the NAFS can go sneaky sneaky and convert Battle Thralls/stabilize their war engine to fight whomever wins the conflict.
* NAFS obliterates the Quans somehow and forces them to be peaceful.... or DIE!
* The Eternal Ones force everyone to be all hippie and find a solution to save all sentience in the galaxy! Yay! Then they go back to fighting.

Or any mix therein. Most likely the Quans just team-up and pwn the NAFS and then get to doctrinal conflicting later. I'm willing to bet they'd rather finish the second conflict with the ambient firelight reflecting throughout the shattered homeworld of the Chmmr. Alternatively the NAFS holds a stalemate long enough for The Captain to inspire revolutionary juices in distant Battle Thralls.
15  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Found some pretty cool fanart on: July 07, 2009, 07:06:25 pm
I really like that Talana...
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