The argument you are making can be applied to just about anything

Enjoying too much sports can lead to being over competitive
Enjoying too much paintball might lead to violent behavior
Enjoying too much alcohol can lead to additcion

However
Moderate sports interest can lead to good sportsmanship
Moderate paintball play can lead to good leadership and problem solving skills
Moderate Alcohol can actually have medical advantages
Even basic instinctual behaviors like eating can be bad if you eat too often.........


Anything can be bad if its excessive and anything can be good in moderation.
Reading Fantasy books based in the past or the present can stimulate creativity, and imagination, which can lead to future innovation. But over stimulation can have negative effects.

We’ve not threatened or interfered with this or any other fan community nor do we plan to.

I do not reply often, but felt I needed to here. A long time ago I was super critical of Stardock.  After the news of Ghosts I started watching everything and have to say I was slowly becoming more of a fan of Stardock. In fact as much as a month ago I was actually excited to buy Origins.

When I was reading this email chain 1 particular part stuck out.

"I'm going to have to ask that you or one of the
other members with administrative access to the UQM project site to sign
the trademark license no later than Friday, August 3."

"We are very interested in
seeing the UQM project continue forward and want to avoid seeing it being
drawn into this dispute."

This particular wording reminds of a Mafia movie lol. DO what we want, when we want. I would hate for something bad to happen to you. At the very least its a scare tactic which is just as bad.
As Elestan put it, "Brad came in with a stick" is exactly how I saw it. Brad has commented several times how he sometimes lets his emotions alter his statements.  A CEO of a major company who cant show self restraint on a friggin internet forum isnt exactly trustworthy in my opinion.

I was intending on purchasing Origins. I laughed at the idea that this lawsuit would deter anyone from purchasing the first star control game in decades. I thought fans would be excited no matter what was being said or done in court. Here we are a week after the release, and that thought appears to have been false.  It wasnt  the lawsuit with Paul & Fred that made me decide not to purchase Origins, it wasnt comments on this forum from fans or admins that made me decide not to buy Origins. It was the comments made directly by Brad Wardell in this forum, in his emails, and even on his own own forums.  I would venture to guess that in the end Brads public displays will cost Stardock more sales than Paul & Fred ever could have.


Finally I do not work for Paul and Freds PR firm as Brad has so often accused people of doing with low comment totals.
Im a regular fan in Michigan, nobody special. Id be happy to prove that  at any time

This is an overly simplistic view, BUT it seems like P&F want to call Ghosts a "Starcontrol Sequel" (I dropped the true part out because maybe they can play nice now) and Stardock wanst to use SC2 aliens in there game which takes place in a different universe that exists within an even larger multiverse. Its seems to me like there is a compromise here somewhere. In the same way that Sony owns Spiderman, but is apart of the larger MCU. It seems to me that if BOTH sides cared about what the players wanted we could have a great game from stardock that includes beloved races from SC2 and opens the door to a larger story, also a sequel from P&F that finally continues the story we all loved. MAYBE if both sides are making enough money  they can eventually collaborate on a game that brings them both together.  From a purely business perspective I feel like both sides have more to gain from working together than they do from battling each other.

I have a question (its to anyone but really its to Frogboy)
Does the fact that its more than 1 race play any factor in the copyright laws? For example if someone handed me an image of Stardocks Arilou I probably would not recognize it as being Arilou alone, BUT I wonder if it was an image of Stardocks re-imagining of an Arilou, Chenjesu, and a Druuge standing next to eachother would the 3 of them together (even if all 3 are as different as the Arilou image is) be enough to trigger the realization of who they are?  Does that even matter? Sort of like an image of a superhero in a red cape by himself may not lead me to see him as Superman, but stand him next to a woman with gold bracelets, and a guy with scales and suddenly you realize that its Superman.

I also have a 2nd question for the forum. Am in the ONLY one who thinks the litigation may lead to something positive? Before the announcement of Ghosts we were getting a Stardock game based loosely on Star Control. The history and lore were barely going to be mentioned if it was alluded to at all. Meanwhile Paul and Fred weren't doing anything. This litigation has pissed off Stardock to the point not only do they want to reference the lore but they want to use the actual alien names. Because of the lawsuit, Origins and any future developments will be more attached to Star Control now than they were intended to be. IF Fred and Paul ALSO get to make thier game, than we will have 2 actual Star Control Games when a year ago I wasn't sure Origins was even going to count as one.

It would be great if the whole thing were just called off.
P&F get to make Ghosts using a license so they can call it "Star Control", Origins can do whatever the hell it wants without interference from P&F, the fans collaborate to recreate UQM in Origins, happy times for all.

Dare to dream

Fair enough, Elestan can discuss it. It doesn't mean that I can't discuss how Elestan doesn't have any basis in knowledge or facts for his conclusory statements.

Elestan doesn't actually know the relevant law at issue (it takes years of practicing in this field to have a decent grasp of the subject) and doesn't actually know the complete body of facts (at this point, no party has access to all the facts - much less a non-party to the dispute).

Frogboy, you, Elestan himself, and im sure many many others have pretty much made that clear

In my opinion, it is unfortunate that Elestan's statements are being given any weight by any person.

Who cares if someone "gives them weight"  nobody here has any impact on the outcome of the case. Its all just talk. I also don't think anyone here is so impacted by his statements that they suddenly wont buy Origins if they had originally intended to buy it...... I know I wont, in fact the more Frogboy talks about Origins the more excited I am about it.

I'd have no issue if Elestan discussed what is clearly his opinion on what he'd like to happen or should happen. My quibble is that Elestan makes statements that are conclusive as to the legal outcome of specific issues in dispute with just enough legal terminology thrown into his posts to make the reader think Elestan knows what he is talking about.

Its exactly what you just said CLEARLY his opinion. When it is CLEARLY an opinion (and it is pretty clear) I can tolerate a little conclusiveness to his statements.
With that said Im sure Frogboy is a little irritated with the non stop back and forth, but either way I dont think Elestans contributions to the the discussion are being taken as matter of factly by the people here as you think they are

If you cannot. You should STOP "acting" like you are some form of attorney. You are nothing but a troll throwing out garbage.

Frogboy said you have been on his forum for 11 years. Have you not been able to figure out what this type of outlet is used for?
engaging into a discussion about law while not being a lawyer is what public forums are generally used for. Similarly to talk radio people will talk about sports teams without actually being a professional athlete. They will talk about politics without being a politician, or  talk about cooking without being a chef. I wont go on but the parenting forums are mind numbing LOL. Certain forms of media like discussion forums are acceptable outlets for opinion and potentially false conjecture. Its implied that the poster may not have the knowledge or qualifications to offer advice, legal or otherwise. Users should be and usually are aware of this (with some exceptions of highly moderated forums with qualified employees being the only people responding) Not only is Elestans posts par for the course in this form of media, they are fairly expected. By definition your post demanding a different behavior is more of a troll job than anything Elestan has posted.

But beyond that, I tend to look dimly on new people who only seem to inject negativity into a community.  In other words, it's not their newness I object to, it's their conduct and affect on the community's culture.

Eventually, this dispute will end one way or the other.  I haven't decided if I will want to stay here or not.  It really depends on what kind of community UQM wants to have I guess.

If it makes a difference I used to be unfairly critical of you and Origins years ago when it was first announced. As worried as I am about not getting a direct SC2 sequel, Ive also come around on Stardock and Origins. I am excited for your new game. Your just the type of person it takes 4 years to get used to ha ha ha

Someone who recently joins a community, any community and only focuses on one topic and every post is designed to twist the facts as much as possible in order to create a misleading narrative, then I think it's fair to suggest their motives are suspect.

You need to be better than this if you want to engage with people on a forum.
There hasn't been much to talk about until recently, so many people like myself who haven't had anything to say are coming out of the woodwork to chime in on the topic that we are interested in. If I were you I would be very careful about accusations like that one. They dont really add to the discussion , BUT they can be very insulting to members, admins, and more importantly for you potential customers. One could argue that your causing damage to your own product with comments like this. Damage that you intend to hold Fred and Paul accountable for.

Honestly I respect your willingness to engage here, BUT I also think continued engagement might end up causing more trouble for you than its worth.  

LOL But what do I know im not Elestan ha ha ha

WOW! is this not the most pedantic argument in Forum history?

Can we get this discussion B.O.T. or will that acronym offend a robot some place? SHEESH!

2. Recognize the damage they have caused and the confusion they have caused and compensate us for that.  We've lost months of marketing time and good will because of the confusion they created in the market (you yourself saw that guy's Reddit post, and yea, that's devastating to their case).  And I'm not even getting into the public circus of the lawsuit itself.  It will take market experts to determine how much in sales this has caused but I would guess probably around 5% at least.  

I can only speak for myself on this topic. BUT I was unfairly critical of the route Stardock was taking (I.E. the multiverse) it wasnt until reading about this legal dispute that I actually read what the storyline was going to be for Origins. I in fact am now interested in the game when I was previously un-intrested..... ALSO as the argument continues and Frogboy keeps engaging with fans I feel Stardock may have actually GAINED support. There is a certain truth to all publicity is good publicity.

4. Cease associating any future games with Star Control.  That means no calling their game a sequel to it and it also means they need to come up with a different game title because Ghosts is already too associated with it.  I don't think think many people would object to them picking a different title.

I think this one is a bit unfair to fans as I think any settlement should have some level of reality to it. The game Paul and Fred ultimately make IS a sequel to SC2. I think anyone who has played SC2 will know what they mean if they said sequel to UrQuan Masters, simply to avoid using the trademarked word StarControl. BUT if your suggesting they cant even say that,  I think it would hurt the marketability of the game. I can understand why you may want them to stop calling it the "TRUE" sequel implying that your game is NOT a true cannon game. I think there could be some level of compromise with this particular demand

I have been super critical about Origins not being a true sequel. Recently I have been reading more about their ideas about the multiverse. I have to say it peaked  my curiosity. Previously I stated I just wanted to see the true sequel we have been waiting for. BUT I will admit I find myself more and more interested in what Stardock is producing. That just makes me more upset by all this, because now I want BOTH games. Anything less will be a disappointment. Furthermore if only 1 game gets made, ill have to be pissed at the producers of that game for ruining the other game..... Id rather re-live my parents divorce than keep reading about this. My parents were more cordial to each other.

October 9th 2017 was a GREAT day. (The best day since I finally figured out the 3DO word I couldnt quite understand was Procyon) Us fans not only had the rebooted game that had hyped for such a LONG time possibly getting a release date, BUT we ALSO had the true sequel we had been waiting for. Now today March 20th 2018 I couldnt be more depressed. Reading about the legal escalation im realizing that at the end of the day the fans are going to be the biggest losers in all of this. We were better off just fantasizing about a sequel than we are having it dangled in front of our faces. Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves.

You could always not immediately jump to the negative whenever he answers.

The level of irritation with this entire thing is making it tough to be logical. I was mildly excited when Origins was announced. It wasnt the true sequel I wanted BUT it was something and maybe it was a step towards it. Than Ghosts was announced, and suddenly there was all this excitement and hype. Not more than 2 months ago there was TWO Star Control games on the horizon, NOW fans are left wondering if there will be any future at all.

Frogboy takes the brunt of the anger because he puts himself out there. I know that engaging with fans can be a good thing, but he has had a knack for rubbing some people the wrong way, myself included.  I hope when this is all over Paul and Fred can make the game they want, ORRRRR that Stardock will make a sequel if Paul and Fred are unable or unwilling too.

If Stardock really wants to make me happy they will buy the rights to Xenosaga and finish that story too. LOL