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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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1  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: SC2 Questions on: June 28, 2003, 04:42:03 am
I beat it the first time, but i spent an enourmous amount of time going through it that first time. I went EVERYWHERE, did everything!

I didn't discover the arilou for the longest time, I was sooooo excited when I realized I didn't have to fuel up 3-4 tanks to fly across the map anymore Smiley
2  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: About the Commander telling u about the Urquan on: June 28, 2003, 04:34:43 am
Perhaps there were some precursor artifacts around earth, including under the ice in antartica.

Otherwise, it seems logical that the Ur-Quan would destroy any old buildings to crush the human will to resist... increasing their obedience to their new masters. Annighilating culture so that a new slave culture emerges.
3  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: THE YEHAT HAS YOU! on: June 07, 2003, 12:09:14 am
No no no, you fry Mycon in butter. Really big clam!
4  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: June 04, 2003, 12:02:31 am
No, you don't understand.

The force of gravity is governed by the equation:

Fg = G x M1 X M2 / r^2

As radius becomes extremly large Fg = 0.

Gravity may be infinite in the entire Universe (assuming the Universe is infinite and stars are infinite) but at ANY SINGLE POINT the gravitational forces are finite.

You can only be affected by gravitational forces from relatively small finite values of radius, ie the distance between the 2 objects exerting gravitional forces.

The same goes for brightness, the light from stars at ANY SINGLE POINT only exists for relatively small finite values of the distance betwen the objects.
5  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: June 03, 2003, 09:26:29 am
I think the Syreen would be just fine the way they are dressed (knife included).
6  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: June 03, 2003, 05:23:09 am
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Considering the finite vs. infinite debate, I once read a rather simple way of proving that the universe is not infinite:

Why is the night sky dark?

There are stars in the sky. The brightness of an object is divided by four when the distance to it is doubled. However, when the radius of a sphere is doubled, its surface area is quadrupled. Imagine the surface of the sphere is the night sky, and the radius is infinity. Therefore, if we have an infinite universe with an infinite number of light-emitting stellar bodies, the brightness if the night sky should be constant and even.



Sorry to re-touch on the infinity talk for those bored of it, but this is flawed reasoning. As is the suggestion about an infinite number of stars creating infinite graviational forces in the Universe.

The reason is that distances are also infinite. As the distance tends to infinity the "brightness" from our perspective equals 0.

Those who posted on this last page are correct, there is no way to prove the size of the Universe.
7  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 31, 2003, 12:30:00 am
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But The_Ultimate_Evil, the limit of science is the observable;  you can't just say there might be an infinite number of galaxies and then base your scientific theories on that assumption.


Thats the whole point though, we can't observe the end or the start of something infinite.

I never said the Universe wasn't finite, I merely was arguing that you can't prove the Universe isn't infinite.

Even if the Universe is finite, our distant descendants will be the only ones to know.
8  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 31, 2003, 12:16:30 am
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I know. Please, calm down.

Note that the expansion of the universe is a matter that is LOCAL not universal.

Every region of the universe, regardless of size, is getting bigger. This includes all finite regions within space.

It does not include (as you keep resoundingly pointing out) that the amount of space itself is getting bigger, as that is infinite.
Nor are we using more of it.

However, it IS expanding. Since you are all comfortable with the idea of infinity * 2 = infinity, the idea that an infinite number can grow without becoming at all bigger should be very comfortable for you.



I know, i was addressing this to people who keep re-uttering that the Universe has to be finite based on the fact that our local "universe" is expanding. Just trying to clear up math rules on infinity since they keep getting abused.
9  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 31, 2003, 12:14:54 am
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Our galaxies are the finite figures in the infinite space. As the infinite balloon of our universe expands, the galaxies are stretched more and more. Their internal gravity pulls them back together somewhat, but even so we can see galaxies that have been stretched by the expansion of the universe to the extent where they can no longer hold themselves together and will fall apart.


See my above post.

If the number of galaxes are also infinite (something we cannot measure) then it does not matter. You have to stop thinking as though the Universe may be finite.

You cannot prove that the Universe is finite, by "thinking" along the line of reasoning of finite math and applying that to the case of if the Universe is infinite.
10  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 31, 2003, 12:08:49 am
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But infinity+1 = infinity.
Therefore infinity + 1 is not greater then infinty.
Therefore the universe is not expanding.


Infinity + 1 = Infinity
Infinity + Infinty = Infinity
Infinty^infinity = Infinity

These are all true mathematical expressions.

INFINITY IS NOT A FINITE NUMBER. YOU CANNOT QUANITFY IT. FINITE RULES DO NOT APPLY TO INFINITY.
11  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Mycon madness on: May 31, 2003, 12:04:06 am
Bah just use the earthling against the Vux. When i originally played this game way back when I hated collecting minerals. I just used my earthling and destroyed several hundred Vux ships then returned home with all those resources Smiley
12  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 31, 2003, 12:01:13 am
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Imagine a balloon that is infinitely wide. Someone blows on the balloon so it's twice as wide.  You can't measure how big it is (it's infinite!) but you can measure how the surface of the balloon changed -- everything on the balloon is now twice as far apart.


No you can't measure how the surface changed, the surface is also infinitely large, the surface NEVER ends, You cannot see the start of that surface nor can you see the end. It is impossible to judge how the shape of an infinite object changes.



And yes, infinity can mean a number that never ends.

Consider a number divded by infinity, we figure this out by taking the limit of ,say 10/x, as x tends to infinity. We keep making x bigger, and bigger, and bigger.

That answer never reaches 0! We have to keep making x bigger, and bigger, and bigger, as 10/x then gets closer, and closer and closer to 0.

This process never ends, infinity goes on forever and CANNOT be measured in any way (unless we're dealing with some expression that we can simplify). This has nothing to do with physics (which i only studied up to "phys 101") but has to do with mathematics that i work with every day.

The difference is that we KNOW that infinity never ends, it is completly unquantifiable, therefore 10 divided by infinity must equal 0.

The reason is to take this paradox (something which Newton addressed when he originally published differential calculus). Imagine you are walking towards your friend, you keep cutting the distance between you in half.

First you are 10 metres apart, then 5, then 2.5, etc... How can you ever touch your friend if the distances keep getting infinetly smaller? Because infinity goes on forever, thats why. At infinity, the distance equals 0.
13  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 30, 2003, 10:21:18 am
PS

Because the Universe is expanding (based on what we know) does NOT prove that the Universe is finite, not even the slightest bit.

Thats the whole definition of infinte you see, you keep writing numbers down for eternity. We see our little corner is expanding, whoop de do. That infinity number keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

"The universe is expanding" is an independant observation from this dicussion.
14  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 30, 2003, 10:19:07 am
Actually I think the only thing we can say for certain is that it is impossible for us to know the size of the Universe...for a long time yet.

IF the Universe is finite, we only know about one grain of sand in an entire ocean of sand. Sure we have our little theories, because we have to theorize about something based on the little available evidence (scientific method), but I would be shocked if our theories stand the test of time.
15  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: How was the real universe created? on: May 27, 2003, 11:59:01 am
Our section of the Universe may be finite, but how do you know an infinite distance away from us there is another "section" of the Universe with another set of a finite number of atoms.

Sorry, but the Universe is still infinite no matter how you spin it.

Also, even if that weren't true that there is only one "section" of the Universe and a definitively finite number of building materials available...

The big bang theory states that eventually the Universe stops expanding and begins contracting, all mass gets sucked into one single small space, all atoms are there where a new big bang occurs and starts the process all over again.

Hence infinite time creates the same results.
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