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December 06, 2021, 10:11:56 am
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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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46  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 23, 2018, 01:36:14 am
Perhaps you'd like to call China and tell them they have no idea what they're doing.

Even if they listened to me, what are they supposed to do? They need to continue to export to the US to fuel their own "fake" economic growth.

I don't think you saw the point. Who are you to suggest that you know more about what's best for the country than the country itself?
47  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 11:43:37 pm
So what? If I take a huge loan from my bank, and use lots of money every month on feeding poor people, it doesn't necessarily matter to the bank what I am using the money on, if it makes me incapable of paying back.
And how is that relevant to the fact that despite your claims that the U.S. and China have continued to trade year after year after year after year? It's been the case for decades that the U.S. uses lots of money to feed poor people.

In the current trade relationship between the US and China, China is basically just giving money to the US. There is no way in hell the US is ever going to pay China back all of the trade deficit.
Perhaps you'd like to call China and tell them they have no idea what they're doing.
48  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 11:19:12 pm
Your country cannot be trusted mostly because your healthcare system and military complex are consuming way too much of your budget, and there is little prospect for decreasing how much those sectors are consuming.
I think you're referring to Ragonomics which predates the current U.S. presidency. While it doesn't seem to be the most rational, it doesn't seem ineffective either given that the U.S. and China have continued to trade for years after those policies were adopted. A lot of technology tends to enter society as a result of military spending, like robotics, instant coffee, auto parts, a lot of communication/networking technology like html tags and GPS and radars, drones, etc. It's not all the U.S. or China, a lot of armed forces eventually end up doing this.
49  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 11:09:24 pm
So do you have data that suggests the world is experiencing hyperinflation? Because I live in a city with hundreds of thousands of people and I haven't seen prices go up very much.

The world isn't experiencing hyperinflation right now. It is in a bubble of false beliefs. Once the Chinese realize that they can't trust you anymore, that bubble will break.

I don't know who you think "you" entails exactly because I never negotiated a trade deal with any world leader, but any country is free to loan from any other, the U.S. and China were never obligated to enter into an agreement. Whether or not they trust each other politically is clear, but economically they have a long history of trade and they both do whatever they can to make sure they don't go bankrupt. I don't see any strong indication that will change even under the current U.S. presidency because Trump doesn't have all the power and Xi will likely be a leader for life to enforce the previous history once the situation settles down.  
50  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 10:54:03 pm
Sure, but what makes you think that people or corporations are acting in their own long-term best interest? People and corporations are stupid. Humans have lots of cognitive biases and are horrible at long-term thinking. You might be able to think a few years into the future. Not much more.
I agree, not everyone will make rational decisions. At the same time, this discussion only proves that people are capable of making rational decisions and seeing beyond bad ones, which means so are most other people. It's not really anything to do with intelligence, people are 99% the same, it's more to do with access to information.

Well, I didn't say inflation, I said hyperinflation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
So do you have data that suggests the world is experiencing hyperinflation? Because I live in a city with hundreds of thousands of people and I haven't seen prices go up very much.

Maybe, but if whatever you are giving to China is worth less than whatever China is giving to you, you will get a trade deficit,
Which is completely fine when the other party plans on paying it back, and both China and the U.S. have that trust which is why they keep doing it every single year after year after year after year. Apple takes out millions of dollars in loans annually, but are they bankrupt? No, they pay it back, so it doesn't matter that they keep taking out millions in loans on an annual basis because they can expect to pay it back.
51  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 10:17:00 pm
The industries don't necessarily need to be devalued,
Except that supply and demand is literally the entire basis for your argument that lower taxes will attract more corporations and those same exact mechanics show that a flooded industry must necessarily be devalued. What you're failing to consider is that this back and forth isn't perpetual, there are physical constraints that would prevent it from running amok and that's why companies settle on an intermediate solution at economic equilibrium, you can't take something that isn't there and frankly it's just irrational for corporations to expect they can. It's not in a corporation's best interest for civilization to collapse, they want people to attain a higher human capital who they can then hire, they want people to be able to buy their products and they want a legal force that can protect them from getting ransacked in anarchy that they don't have to waste money on themselves.

But of course, the entire global economic system is going to collapse sooner or later, probably because of the US dollar going into hyperinflation.
Inflation is always a natural consequence of countries experiencing economic growth, on its own it isn't an indication of anything wrong.

But then the Chinese economy will also collapse since they are mainly exporting to the U.S. And of course EU isn't safe either. The entire world is interconnected today.
Different countries specialize in different industries which is why they trade, they want it that way specifically because it's more rational for all parties involved than every country trying to do every single little thing itself.
52  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 10:03:14 pm
Countries aren't just going to get take corporate abuse lying down, they're the ones who actually control the resources companies need to make any money in the first place and have actual armed forces that can be deployed.

So what? Lots of your government officials are "owned" by corporations.

So aside from the fact that you keep changing the subject to avoid the logical holes I point out in your rhetoic and aside from the fact that corrupt individuals can be either voted out of office in a democracy or dismissed/executed in a dictatorship, let's say that you're right that all companies automatically want to move to any country that has the lowest taxes and that they would have zero negative consequences as a result. If that actually happens, then that country now becomes flooded in every industry which devalues all those industries in that country, which then gives the corporations an incentive to move back to their original countries.
53  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 09:52:22 pm
You really think your countries are winning against the multinational corporations? I think the sharks are eating your countries for dinner.
And what exactly makes you think corporations have that kind of power when Google temporarily lost its own domain name due to a single policy that says they're obligated to renew it? Countries aren't just going to take corporate abuse lying down, they're the ones who actually control the resources companies need to make any money in the first place and have actual armed forces that can be deployed.
54  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / General UQM Discussion / Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion on: July 22, 2018, 08:59:41 pm
Paul and Fred are being sued personally. This lawsuit could cost them essentially their entire life's work, both their intellectual property, and their finances. The lawsuit could easily cost more than a million dollars. So even if they're millionaires, that's half of what they've been able to make in their life.

It's not even relevant to the lawsuit. It's just Stardock throwing stuff in, hoping to color the judge and the jury's perception of who Paul and Fred are: frauds who didn't make anything and have now launched a gofundme to swindle more people out of money they don't want to earn.

Anyone paying any amount of attention would see those attacks and draw more conclusions about Stardock for making them. But I wonder if an average gamer with no context would look at that and buy Stardock's narrative.

Some average gamers have only played Stardock's games and not the original SC games that included Fred and Paul's copyrighted content. That doesn't have much bearing on the actual case itself other than that maybe possibly Stardock can somehow back their claims Fred and Paul have been intentionally deceiving the public which just seems like grasping at straws when so many different random opinions are clearly involved, especially when Stardock itself has been far more effective in its marketing of this issue. What Stardock's claims surely do though is draw attention to Stardock's game and gets them pre-sales, so I do definitely see an economic incentive for Stardock to make intentionally dramatized claims.
55  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 08:43:41 pm
Okay, but there are huge multinational corporations today, and if different countries have different levels of taxes for corporations, don't you think multinational corporations will have a tendency to migrate to the countries with the lowest taxes?

It's definitely "an" incentive, but it's not the only incentive and not for every industry. A company doesn't actually need to move to a whole other part of the planet just to get a tax break, they can filter through shell corporations to the Caiman islands. I think your point is that "if they're just going to shortcut the system, why fight them?" and the answer is because they can still be prosecuted for the money they think they've loopholed and there are policies many countries as a whole can enforce to mitigate that damage.
Money is just a facade, it's an illusion we agree to for the sake of conveniently deciding how to allocate resources, there still are physical limits to how many resources need to be allocated to actually sustain the civilization people want, you can't just keep perpetually lowering taxes more and more and expect nothing to go wrong, and obviously different countries recognize that. Different countries happen to specialize in particular industries, so China specializes in production, so they make production labor cheap. The United States specializes in media, so they make lots of songs and movies and games for a higher quality than what other countries could make, so the same rhetoric of outsourcing doesn't automatically apply to everything.
56  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 08:36:07 pm
And I'm not disputing that that's true. However, that's still not to say that a particular state can't elect to make an irrational decision based on inaccurate claims anyway.

Your claim is that it is more rational for dense populations to be more communistic, while it is more rational for less dense populations to be capitalistic?

My claim is that with a particular model of rational decision making, that I can make an argument that mathematically disputes one of your claims. That doesn't mean there aren't other variables though.

For instance, what if the choice isn't between 90% and 10%, but instead it's between 20% and 0.00001% with 10 people versus 100,000 people? Well, in that particular instance, it's more rational for the society to choose the flat 20%. The overall point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't expect every country to conform to a single assumption about what's "best" for them (a dispute that has lead to genocide across the planet), because what's best will always vary on a case by case basis. I would say communist countries are as wrong to impose their system as capitalist countries are to impose their other system.
57  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 08:27:53 pm
I'm sure you know that the bulk of the population of Russia lives in the Western portion.

So what? Some parts of the United States are also much more densely populated than other parts.

And I'm not disputing that that's true. However, that's still not to say that a particular state can't elect to make an irrational decision based on inaccurate claims anyway.
58  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 08:25:59 pm
So like I also said, many European countries have collectively adopted a more progressive attitude than the United States which only has 33 pop/km, like for instance how European countries tend to have universal healthcare.

What about Russia, which only has 8.3 People per km2. If communism had any correlation with population density, wouldn't you expect Russia to have been super capitalistic?

So like I'm saying for the third time now, to have any accurate assessment as to whether your presumption is right or wrong, we would at the least have to look at what landmass the population is actually relevant to, because simply dividing population by surface area doesn't consider the fact that some parts of a country are completely uninhabited or uninhabitable, and that's not to mentioned the dynamics of each country's different ecosystem that supports a higher or lower population cap. I'm sure you know that the bulk of the population of Russia lives in the Western portion.
59  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 08:14:14 pm
So you see that Germany and Italy have the highest population densities in Europe.

Maybe it is a bit difficult to see from the map, but Italy and Germany are not the countries with the highest population density in Europe.  Netherlands, Belgium, and the United Kingdom have a higher population density.

CountryPeople per km2
Netherlands 416
Belgium355
United Kingdom255
Germany229
Italy200

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

I do get different numbers from different sources

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281322/population-density-in-the-united-kingdom-uk-by-country/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density

But I would likely trust wikipedia over just a commercial source, so I would anticipate that order is currently more accurate. However, there is still the timeline to consider, as the genocide didn't primary take place in the United Kingdom, and, can you extrapolate its economic stance based on formerly having many fewer people which other sources seem to support
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/population-density-people-per-sq-km-wb-data.html
So like I also said, many European countries have collectively adopted a more progressive attitude than the United States, and  the U.S.  only has 33 pop/km, like for instance how European countries tend to have universal healthcare.
I think formally assessing the issue would require actually looking at the relevant land mass of the countries, not simply dividing the population by the surface area as wiki does, because obviously there aren't many people living in the middle of a lake or a desert. Different countries also have more or less resources available too, so they can just as easily adopt a different rhetoric based on the offset times at which they approach their respective population caps. The Netherlands for instance has access to the North sea whereas the Baltic sea faces marine ecosystem failure from overfishing. But the fact that information like that hasn't been formally assessed could just then be grounds to say that no one should be making definite statements like ours in the first place.

60  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release / Starbase Café / Re: Why we should not strive for complete economic equality on: July 22, 2018, 06:48:07 pm
Many European countries have almost the same population density as China, while Japan and India actually have a much higher population density than China. None of those countries are communistic

So you see that Germany and Italy have the highest population densities in Europe. Did you forget who the Axis powers were? Their economy was really bad when the rise of communism happened. They currently aren't very communist post WW-II, but even despite being forced to give that up, they have a much more progressive attitude than the U.S. although Italy is comparatively more corrupt. Also India, unlike the majority of China (mostly Hong Kong), was directly occupied by British forces. So India could have still originally been interested in being communist, but as with Germany and Italy was forced to give that up and India isn't exactly in the best shape today. China as a single country also has over a billion people to support and the bulk of those people aren't equally distributed over China's desert or the Tibetan plateau contrary to what the map may suggest, unlike any of the European countries.
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