I don't understand this strange fixation some of you guys seem to have with removing comedy from the game.

Comedy that isn't funny isn't comedy. It's just some words being spoken or read.

Furthermore, the comedic elements of the StarControl universe are very clearly directed. They're centered around some races and circumstances, while others are very serious.

In a voice-less StarControl 2, the Utwig are well outside of these comedic elements, very much like the Ur-Quan, Chmmr, and several others. They very clearly aren't the Thraddash, Spathi, Umgah, Druuge, etc.

Imagine if the Chmmr spoke with a cowardly voice (it's funny, right? They're hiding under a slave shield, get it?), and the damage it would do to their character.

who, I assume, know more about how their creation was "initially designed" than people hanging around on some Web forum

Two words: George Lucas.

Some people make good things by accident. Or later have revisionings of something that was just fine to begin with, and turn it into something weaker.

The point is this: a thing should be judged on its own merits, not the deification of those who created it.

But that's the whole joke.

It's only a joke if its funny. And, quite frankly, it isn't.

Furthermore, I would point out that the game, StarControl 2 was designed, built, shipped, and purchased by many well before any alleged jokes based on voice acting. The voice acting version should not fundamentally alter the ideas created by the non-voice acted version.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

To check this out, burn the Torch afterburner in a straight line for a while, then apply normal thrust. You will find that, unexpectedly, the Torch doesn't lose speed (until you turn slightly).

I always wondered what it was that caused that. It's funny how it was a performance optimization.

It might make an interesting patch to "restore" those optimizations to their unoptimized forms. Though the real question for that is how much it would fundamentally alter the SC physics model.

UQM uses Newtonian physics, but caps the maximum speed.

This statement, when translated to mathematics, is:

V₁ = MAX(V_max, (A_thrust * t + V₀) );

However, playing the game does not entirely bear this out. If this were the case, then if your velocity is over V_max, and you press thrust at all, then your velocity will immediately drop to V_max (or less, depending on where you're thrusting). However, if you play the game, you discover that it takes continued thrusting to go from a super-V_max velocity to a sub-V_max velocity. Make a gravity whip with the Umgah (high acceleration, low max-speed), and you will see how long it takes for it to slow down back to V_max if you thrust in the direction of motion.

I could be convinced that this is how it works when the current speed is below V_max. But not when it is above it.

I'm aware of all of that. I'm asking about the specific mechanism that governs thrust-based acceleration.

In regular physics, if you have acceleration X over time duration Y, you know that the velocity you get is X*Y + Z, where Z is the initial velocity. But in SC physics, acceleration is somehow based on both the current speed (or the ratio of the speed relative to the maximum thrust speed) and the applied acceleration. What exactly is the nature of that relationship, and what are the equations that govern it.

Honestly?

If you guys are serious about improving the AI in the game, then you need to make it easier for people to do the work.

What you need is a single mod that you don't need grand C++ experience in order to get in there and adjust. And the best way I can think of to do that is to invoke a scripting language. My recommendation would be Lua.

The idea would be that the code would call a Lua script for each frame, and the Lua script would be able to ask questions (where is the ship, are there any space objects in this region of space, how fast am I going, etc) of the game and give their own ship commands (turn, fire, etc). The way I'd design it is such that there could be a single Lua script for every matchup, but if a script for a particular matchup isn't found, then the game goes to the standard ship script, and if that isn't found, it goes to a generic one that can work for all ships (but shouldn't work very well).

Lua as a language is a lot more fogiving than C++, and because it's executed at runtime, you can even change scripts in the middle of battle without needing to recompile them. This makes it much faster in terms of development of a good AI, since you don't have to stop the program, make your change, recompile, run, start Super Melee, select the fleets, and start the battle. The biggest difficulty is going to be creating a good script interface. That is, exposing appropriate script functions so that it can ask useful questions (is there a space object that will hit me if I keep going, can I dodge it in time to avoid the damage, etc). Once you work out a decent list of questions (and the best way to do it is to get a bare-bones script working, and then try to make a good AI. When you start needing to test things that there is no API function for, write one), you're pretty much ready to go.

Really you don't need all 625 different pairs in the end. Ship-based generic ones can handle a lot of the variation, but there are going to be certain encounters for certain ships that will require a hand-tuned approach.

I have a pretty good understanding of how actual physics works, and I know a lot about how to implement it in a computer simulation. But there is a question that has boggled my mind for some time, and I'd rather not have to run through UQM's codebase to find it.

How do they make it so that the player's acceleration stops at the ships maximum velocity? See, I know enough to know it isn't a simple matter of simply capping the ship's max velocity; otherwise, gravity whips wouldn't work. And we all know that accelerating once past max velocity will accelerate the ship back towards that velocity, which likewise goes against physics.

So does anyone know what bizarre equations governs StarControl-style physics? I know it's mostly Newtonian, but I just can't seem to figure out how they governed the ship's acceleration.

About how we should do this - perhaps a text-only would be good TEMPORARILY until we find out another solution.

Exactly. It's like being told that a building's support is fractured and having a bunch of building engineer's arguing for years about what the best way is to reinforce it. In the meantime, the support is still fractured, and the building is still in danger of collapsing.

Put in a quick temporary reinforcement to keep the building standing while you decide on how to do the real fix.

As for the real fix, as far as I'm concerned, dialog-less text is just fine. Sure, it won't be as nice as having voice dialog, but it won't sound as weird as various other solutions. It's better to hear nothing than to hear something bad/inconsistent.

[not reasonable]

I find myself perplexed by this entire discussion.

UQM has a False Knowledge Pathology in it; it is not reasonable to expect a player to be able to complete the game. That doesn't mean that one can't; it merely means that a reasonable game designer should not expect the player to.

Put simply, your game is broken. It's not much better than putting the key to a locked door behind the locked door.

So, all these notions of, "We're trying to emulate the 3DO version," etc are really just nonsense. Gameplay is king, and the gameplay itself is broken.

One line of unspoken dialog. It's infinitely better to let a player think that the game is missing a dialog file than for the player to not be able to play the game.

You could argue against this being a False Knowledge Pathology. But that's the only reasonable argument against doing whatever it takes to fix the problem. If you believe it is a game-breaking problem, then it needs to be fixed.

I don't think a Yehat would work very well in a fleet situation. The thing about fleets is that they're going to be focusing on one guy a lot. So, if a Yehat flies into a mixed-Hierarchy formation and drops its shields for even a moment, it dies instantly.

Looked at from purely a pseudo-SC1 perspective, I'm seeing the Hierarchy mopping up the Alliance in fleet battles.

The Dreadnaught has pretty good range on its main gun. This lets it actually hit something on the other side of the formation. The Mycon's brutal range means that it can just sit behind a line of Dreadnaughts and fire to their heart's content.

Just imagine a Mycon swooping in and getting off a few shots, then retreating under cover fire from a Dreadnaught. Normally, you kill Podships by preventing a retreat, but few are the ships that can go head-to-head with a Dreadnaught. Which gives the Podship the chance to recover from the damage. Or, just have a couple Dreadnaughts standing between the enemy fleet and a couple Podships. They can hold the line, while the Mycon offer long-range fire support.

I see the Thraddash (who technically aren't in SC1, but they could have been) and the Spathi taking on "sudden death" roles. That is, you're busy dealing with a pair of Dreadnaughts, you're trying to retreat, but oh look, there's 3 butt missiles or a wall of fire in your path. And that fire's pretty nasty, especially if several of your fleet gets hit with it. They can also perform "cavalry raids", where they slide into a formation and wreak havok, then quickly slide out.

The Umgah would be very useful in such a tactic, once the battle is enjoined. I can see them sitting at the back of a formation, then while the enemy is distracted (perhaps with a Podship run, as described above), one of them zips in and annihilates something. Sure, it may not have the fuel to zip back out again, but somehow I don't think the Kzer-Za care.

The Androsynth could be useful there to, especially with their speed. And the great thing about the Androsynth is that, not only does it has the speed and maneuverability to avoid lots of fire, but it commands respect. Your fleet can't ignore a comet coming at you; they have to try to kill it. Which gives the main Hierarchy fleet a chance to close range. And if they do ignore it, they may lose a ship. Lose-lose.

The VUX becomes close-range fire support. It's slow, but they can sit pretty close to the Dreadnaughts and deal with "minor" problems like Syreen.

The Ilwrath (even if you can still guesstimate their location) are death. Anytime a ship is distracted (by, say, an Androsynth), the enemy can simply walk up on them and incinerate them.

The Chenjesu has "pretty good" range, which could theoretically allow them to run away and bomb from afar. But there's too many enemies to make this anything more than a stalemate. DOGI are rendered useless by the number of separate guns that can attack them. This forces them to have to go toe-to-toe with the Dreadnaught, and that's not good when there's other ships nearby. One thing the Chenjesu might be able to do is kill VUX, this making a possible hole for something else.

Mmrnhrm... I don't think they can work very well. The fast form can't react fast enough, and the slow form is vulnerable from long-ranged fire. In fleet battles, conditions change constantly, so being able to react to something is vital. These guys would probably be Thraddash fodder. At best, a pest.

Earthling Cruisers actually would be pretty strong, as long-range fire support. The main problem is that if they target something fast, the missile can easily be guided into something unpleasant. Plus, if they drift too far from their fleet, fast Hierarchy intercepters (Thraddash, Spathi, Umgah) can swarm and murder them.

A Syreen would be OK in such a battle. They'd serve a role similar to that of the VUX: close range fire support. It'd be more dangerous for the Syreen, though, as they'd need to closely approach the enemy ship to start pulling crew as well as gunning them down. And VUX's (not to mention Thraddash, Androsynths, etc) are going to be nearby waiting to kill them.

The Shofixti would be fearful if it weren't for the fact that the Hierarchy has lots of long-ranged guns in their fleet. You might get through by sending two or three, but only one or two would make it. The Arilou's problem is that it can't control it's Quasispace jump destination, so it's as likely to be in a dangerous spot as a harmless one.

Once you go SC2, things look way better for the Alliance. The Chmmr destroys most of the Hierarchy tactics. The fact that a fleet involving Chmmr can just run away, trackter in "appropriate" targets (Podships first) and deal with the Hierarchy fleet one at a time makes them a priority target. And this means that the Hierarchy basically has to charge the Alliance fleet, which is something that fleet can prepare for.

Once the Yehat isn't public enemy #1, and once the formations break into a grand melee, the Yehat basically has its pick of who it wants to kill. And having firesupport (and marine support) from Orz ships don't hurt either, though marines are slightly limited by the fact that there are more guns in the enemy fleet to shoot them down. But once the fleet closes and breaks formation, it's basically find your targets wherever you want. The Orz should never be the primary attacker (that's why the Alliance has two shielded ships), but they should be the ones on cleanup.

And the Utwig is the death of all things. Because there are other ships out there, they are able to refuel at will! (and heaven help you if there's more than one Utwig...) Need extra fuel? Ask the nice Chmmr to burn you with its laser for a second. The Ur-Quan single-fighter trick just doesn't work at this point. And since you're not going to be attacked by a DOGI, the only thing you have to fear are limpets. And you can murder VUX's at your leisure, or have those be the first targets for your Chmmr allies.

And, of course, there's the Pkunk. Incredible speed, firepower, and a mildly decent chance of coming back to life. This is what you use to stop those Thraddash, Spathi, and so forth. Or, just send them on distraction/suicide missions against the Hierarchy fleet. They can dance around lots of shots and they're too dangerous for the Hierarchy to ignore.

What are the legalities that stand around UQM and the whole UQM/StarControl universe? I understand that the following is true, so please correct me if I am wrong:

1: The game title StarControl is still privately owned, and therefore it cannot be used without the permission of whatever entity owns that name. However, the phrase Star Control, as used in UQM the game for the army of the old Alliance of Free Stars, can still legally be used by that game.

2: The source code and data for the 3DO version of the game formerly known as StarControl 2 has been released under the GPL. This license, effectively, means that any codebase that uses any code from UQM must fully release the source code to the public, even if that codebase were used to build a project that was being sold.

So, given the above, here are my questions:

A: Does the GPL extend to the game data of UQM as well, such that attempting to use that data in another project (possibly in the SC/UQM universe) is not possible without releasing the source code? Even if no source code from UQM is used in that project?

B: Is it possible to use the UQM setting and universe for another game and sell this game legally without having to pay various licensing fees? Was the copyright to the setting of UQM included in the UQM GPL release, or is that still the property of the original developers?

C: If the SC/UQM universe is part of the UQM GPL release, does that also mean that use of this universe's material would have to adhere to the source code release statute of the GPL?

Don't worry, you only need 3 devices to finish the game:
Sun device: can be obtained after Mycon is dead.
Talking pet: can be retrivied after Umgah is dead.
Utwig bomb: can be taken after Utwig is dead.

[spoilers]



I'm not sure, but won't that require a race that you practically can't win? After the Utwig die, you have to:

1: Fetch the Bomb. You could be in Utwig space waiting for them to die, but you still need to get the bomb.

2: Go to Procyon. That's literally across the map from Utwig space. Meanwhile the Kohr-Ah are making their way to Sol.

3: Go from Earth to Delta Crateris. Also a long trek, while the Kohr-Ah are getting closer to Earth.

4: Destroy the Sa-Matra.

Is it even possible to out run the Kohr-Ah for 1.5 times the diagonal length of the sector? I know that Kohr-Ah space doesn't move that fast, but it isn't slow either.

They're deeply passionate, tragic antiheroes.

The Kzer-Za are not antiheroes. At one point in their past, they could have helped resurrect a Sentient Milieu; they chose the Path of Now and Forever instead. And they have been following that path ever sense.

More importantly, they found the Sa-Matra. With it, they were able to subjugate the Kohr-Ah fleet. However, instead of destroying them, or forcing them to abide by the Path of Now and Forever, they let them go. They let the Kohr-Ah go to perpetrate their Eternal Doctrin upon half the galaxy.

If the Kzer-Za really wanted the Kohr-Ah stopped, they would have stopped them themselves.

They do, in the end, become desperate -- they're very aware that the Kohr-Ah are quite probably stronger than they are, and that the slaves they've taken under their wing have everything to lose if they don't win the Doctrinal Conflict.

How desperate can they possibly be? If they really wanted to win the war, they could have just deployed the Sa-Matra. Screw the "rules"; if they wanted to win, if they truly cared about other species, then they would have done so.

I would say that the Umgah are far more evil than the Kzer-Za, or even the Kohr-Ah. The Kzer-Za, at the very least, have some justification for their actions, and have even saved species from self-annihilation before. The Kohr-Ah believe in reincarnation, so killing isn't so terrible a thing to them. Also, the Ur-Quan don't screw with you; they tell you what they are from day 1.

The Umgah are just jerks. They exploit other races, not to preserve their species like the Ur-Quan, but merely for their own enjoyment. They don't have any kind of morality; they just do whatever amuses them.

The Thraddash aren't evil. They believe in basic evolution: survival of the fittest. While most of the conflict results in the death of the loser, it is aluded to that the vanquished are not always killed in conflicts.

As for the Dnyarri,  we know is what they did: they enslaved a large portion of the galaxy via thought control, corrupted the Ur-Quan at a generic level, and utterly wiped out a number of species. That makes them pretty evil, given the lengths that they were willing to go to in order to gain and ensure power. I consider them to be kind of like Umgah with mind control and a more serious attitude.

The talking pet in the game, however, has every right to want to hurt the Ur-Quan. They brutalized their species, stripping away their sentience and reducing them to mere translation units.

BTW, SlaveShields are, in the really long run, a death sentence. Sooner or later, the nearby star will go Nova, crack the shield, and kill everyone on the planet. Also, what about species that have been so long in space that one world cannot sustain their population? Half of their population would starve in short order.

Also, it's possible the Ur-Quan are complete assholes and just slave shield a race after they're no longer useful in the immediate area. Wouldn't that be funny?

It would, also, be very much unlike the Ur-Quan. Observe:

Human. We Ur-Quan never lie. NEVER!
It is a weakness to lie and, as you have noticed, the Ur-Quan are not weak!

Completely without guile or subterfuge, by choice. So, why would the Kzer-Za say that they are going to permit a race to have some limited access to space as a Battle Thrall if they're just going to turn around and Slave Shield them later? That would be a lie, and the Ur-Quan (presumably both the Kzer-Za and the Kohr-Ah, since the Kohr-Ah have no need to) do not lie.

You all should stop letting your nostalgia get the better of you. It's funny how much time can cloud memories.

Actually, that's something I noticed about a few of the songs too. It isn't so much that they are short, but they just kind of end.

When a normal piece of music ends, you have a pretty good idea that it was wrapping up. But, when, say, the VUX remix ends, it almost sounds like somebody tore out the last few pages of sheet music. And, since it doesn't loop properly, the sudden end is kind of jarring. It makes the piece sound short even though it isn't.

You think so? Being forced to kill your friends and then in order to free yourself having a device implanted in your brain which would cause a continuous near-lethal pain? Their only goal is to remove any chance of that happening ever again. They may have gone a bit over the top, but they're not doing what they do for their own amusement.
So what I'd expect to hear in a theme is not evil, but

It is kind of a matter of perspective, but, regardless of how they justify their actions, they have become evil. A race of soul-less conqueres that have little respect for other lifeforms.

The Kzer-Za's idea of compassion is very different from that of most other species. Allowing a race to survive as a battle thrall or fallow species is their idea of compassion. To them, this is merely the "respectful" method of ensuring the survival of the Ur-Quan species. To everyone that they have subjugated, this is evil.

In any case, I think the most important thing that the Kzer-Za's music needs to convey is that sense of "Oh Crap!" that you get when you first get to Earth and encounter the probe. The Kzer-Za are the first species that the captain encounters, and that encounter needs to make the player fear. The music needs to pull this off.

As to the specifics of Kzer-Za music, remember that the Kzer-Za are neither subtle nor dubious. They are exactly what they say that they are. When you meet a Kzer-Za, you know that you have just encountered one of the most powerful and relentless beings in the galaxy, and you'd better be packing some huge weaponry if you expect to get out alive.