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Orz Brain
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2003, 05:44:29 am »

Quote
The only way the Orz *smelled* the Androsynth was because the Androsynth opened a DF portal.  
On the surface of their own homeworld. No other way for the Orz to even DETECT this phase of reality.


Hmmmm. So the Androsynth find a precursor artifact that could do most anything from making lethal viruses to exploding to opening portals to other dimensions that are inhabited by fish like aliens that like to eat Androsynth for breakfast and decide to test it on the surface their home world? Smart!

Also I was always under the impression that planets generally orbited around a star. However the portal, which is just a tear in space, would not. So any portal created on a planets surface would only stay there a few seconds. Unless of course the Orz moved the portal with the planet. Which just brings me back to my other theory:

If the Orz could only enter *heavy space* via a single dimensionally fatigued area / portal on the Androsynth home world and the Androsynth attempted to destroy anything coming through (under the impression that it was an invasion force) and the Orz (as it said) could not stay together much longer in *pretty space* it could have considered it a life or death matter and resorted to lethal force.

Also I was under the impression that the Androsynth were interested in DF to make a faster starship drive. Which means their the portal would have been created somewhere out in space. You know like in front of a starship?

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The Orz attack planets when they *smell* other races. They can't just go looking around for someone to jump, sneak up on em and whack em. They're kinda like guided missiles: they'll blow the hell out of stuff, but you need to point them first. The Androsynth unwittingly turned on a homing beacon as it were, so, they fell to the Orz via Dimentional-Fatigue-Driven Planetary Assault.


(1) Androsynth ARE human or very close to humans. Which means the Orz would have killed the humans to.
(2) The Orz repeatedly state in conversation that they can smell you, i.e.:
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I am *expanding!* It is so much *squishy* to *smell* you!


AND

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Uh... hi there. Nice to see you again... I think.
That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
but it is really *fingers*.
Maybe you do not even *smell*? That is sad.
*Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*.


(3) When you ally with the Orz a large group of them go to your starbase:
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We have been invaded by an alien race calling themselves the `Orz', though so far the invasion is a friendly one.
The fishlike creatures have been stomping around the base in their robotic walking exoskeletons
which look like combat vac-suits, if you ask me.
Based on the summary reports I've seen on their `Nemesis' ship design, I have but a single comment:
I like it!
I'd say we have quite a nasty little surprise in store for the Ur-Quan the next time you tangle with them.


Are you saying that even though they are in close proximity to humans and mingling freely with them that they still can't smell them?

Quote
Also: Interstellar wars leaves bits of exploded ships scattered about, perhaps in orbit or those that have fallen to the surface. Do you find any debris in space, or any ship debris on the surface? No.


Really? So what do you think actually DID happened to the Androsynth fleet? The Orz just pulled them? But wait, I would have thought they would just have pulled the Androsynth from inside the ships.

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The Ur-Quan don't even know about the Orz, and to counter the argument I can already hear coming,  
"How do YOU know the Ur-Quan don't know about the Orz?"  
They haven't tried to enslave them yet. The Kohr-Ah simply stumble upon them and annihilate them (yay!) when the Cleansing starts. If they DID have their fleet, the 'Quans would certainly know about it, and if the Androsynth ran into them in space somewhere, they'd tell their masters.


I see. Consider this: the only time you see an Ur-Quan outside of their warzone is when ONE ship comes to investigate Unnervalt. When the Yehat have a civil war do they come and restore order? No. When the Utwig and Suppox go home with vastly reduced fleets do they go and enslave them? No. When the Earth starbase runs out of fuel do they come and resupply them? No. When the Androsynth cease communication due to being wiped out do they come investigate? Guess not or they would know about the Orz. And your telling me that when they receive a report of an alien race that can destroy dreadnoughts like tissue paper they are going to lose their war with the Kohr-Ah to go and try to enslave them? I don't think so.

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And for God's sake, its AndrosYnth, there's no I in it. Nothing I hate worse than arguing with someone that can't spell.  
Oh, as for making sense: I do. You don't. This isn't a hypothetical thing, what happened to the Androsynth. Its just unknown where they went.


I am eternally grateful for pointing out that extraordinary pertinent thing. I wish to apologize from the bottom of my heart for any distress this may have caused you.

Also I dislike arguing with someone who is apparently incapable of following something to it's logical conclusion.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2003, 01:18:54 pm »

Okay, my suggestions to make it more complicated:

The Orz are living in another dimension, and they were not able to *smell* this one.
They are not alone in their dimension, there could be some dangerous animals (maybe parasites) living there, which are also able to *slide*. When the Androsynth opened that DF-portal, these animals came and spread like a disease throughout the Androsynth. When the Orz found out what happened, they *pulled* the Synths to protect this reality from the evil ones. They do not whish you to become aware of what happened as that means to become visible (*smellalbe*) to the parasites.
But since their own dimesion seems rather full, they do not return, partly to ensure that noone will reopen a portal.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2003, 05:03:00 pm »

Seems like a nice theory that makes the orz look like the good guys. Ofcourse it can explain why they left in sc3 but it doesn't explain why they attacked you [and why the Heralds and the eternal one came( or maybe they are from the same dimention where the eternal ones/the Heralds are]).

I think that they attacked you in sc3(related to this theory only) because of what happened to the universe. Portals appears out of no where and maybe they were afraid that you will find one ( after all you have the ONLY ship who can get there until the universe will be balanced again) and then another races will discover it after you.

But ofcourse it is just a theory, maybe the theory of Necro is the correct one. But then again, all are right. If not why we are still talking about it?

P.S what happened to the dancing avatar krulle?  Wink
« Last Edit: September 12, 2003, 05:06:57 pm by Deep_Jiffa » Logged

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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2003, 05:35:56 pm »

Dancing Avatar?
I tried several other Icons (from different Webpages). At first, they showed correctly, but when i came back after an hier or so, the icon did not reload. That's why I'm a bunny again. At least the Spathi are still afraid of me....
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2003, 07:03:16 pm »

Quote
Hmmmm. So the Androsynth find a precursor artifact that could do most anything from making lethal viruses to exploding to opening portals to other dimensions that are inhabited by fish like aliens that like to eat Androsynth for breakfast and decide to test it on the surface their home world? Smart!


They didn't have a clue as to the potential side effects of the Artifact's power. Here, maybe this will help: You're an Androsynth, sick of his vessel's slow normal form. Upon planetfall on a routine search mission, you find an artifact wrought by the Precursors. Naturally, you'd take it home. Your Xenotechs research it, and find out that it can make rips in the fabric of space. Logcial conclusion: Rips in space = Teleportation = Faster transportation for the Guardians.
Making viruses? Exploding? What the hell are you talking about?

Quote
Also I was always under the impression that planets generally orbited around a star. However the portal, which is just a tear in space, would not. So any portal created on a planets surface would only stay there a few seconds. Unless of course the Orz moved the portal with the planet.

Yes they do. Yes it is. They probably did. Hmm, if you think about it, if the Androsynth tore a hole in space, it'd keep tearing as the planet moved and as long as the DF device was on, wouldn't it? That'd make it big enough for those uglies to stick their heads through.

Quote
If the Orz could only enter *heavy space* via a single dimensionally fatigued area / portal on the Androsynth home world and the Androsynth attempted to destroy anything coming through (under the impression that it was an invasion force) and the Orz (as it said) could not stay together much longer in *pretty space* it could have considered it a life or death matter and resorted to lethal force.


How do you kill something you can't hit? They were "poltergeists" when they came through the portal, this is why the computer searches were so frantically looking for ghosts, wights, etc. I also really doubt that the Orz were going to be friendly if they came through without incident (which is most likely what they did.)

Quote
Also I was under the impression that the Androsynth were interested in DF to make a faster starship drive. Which means their the portal would have been created somewhere out in space. You know like in front of a starship?


Hypothetical situation: It's the year 1942. The German Army comes out with a prototype weapon/mode of transportation, the first of it's kind. They call it a V-1 "rocket". Are you going to, without further research and/or testing, slap the first rocket ever built in the world on your back and go for a fly? Didn't think so. The Androsynth would have wanted to do more research before they messed around with DF and ships. I note a lack of starbase (deserted or not) around Eta Vulpeculae, so I don't think they were trying it out in space quite yet, though I bet they were going to eventually.

Quote
(1) Androsynth ARE human or very close to humans. Which means the Orz would have killed the humans to.
(2) The Orz repeatedly state in conversation that they can smell you, i.e.:  


1. The Androsynth race are clones. Smell one, smell 'em all. Humans, who have genetic diversity, on the other hand, don't all smell alike.
2. I know. The Orz, as I've stated before, are bastards, but they're not stupid. If you saw a ship six times larger than two of yours put together and a fleet following it, are you going to blatantly attack it? It's like in SC3 with the Supox. They probably jumped them while they were in the Bubble, blew them apart w/ Marines, then dragged the Blade to Muhlifain, their Kessari *pretty space* base of ops. They're just waiting to kill you, I.E. the end of SC3.

Quote
Really? So what do you think actually DID happened to the Androsynth fleet? The Orz just pulled them? But wait, I would have thought they would just have pulled the Androsynth from inside the ships.

I really don't know where the Androsynth fleet went. Couple of things could've happened.
1: The Orz *pulled* the Androsynth from everywhere, including their ships, and left them to drift off somewhere in space. Which I find odd, since you never find any Guardians floating around.
2: The Orz *pull* the Androsynth, then note that some of their technology could be of use, such as the Guardian's dualform. They take the ships afterward and research them themselves.
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.

Quote
Consider this: the only time you see an Ur-Quan outside of their warzone is when ONE ship comes to investigate Unnervalt. When the Yehat have a civil war do they come and restore order? No. When the Utwig and Suppox go home with vastly reduced fleets do they go and enslave them? No. When the Earth starbase runs out of fuel do they come and resupply them? No. When the Androsynth cease communication due to being wiped out do they come investigate? Guess not or they would know about the Orz. And your telling me that when they receive a report of an alien race that can destroy dreadnoughts like tissue paper they are going to lose their war with the Kohr-Ah to go and try to enslave them? I don't think so.


True, only in Unzervalt do you see one. When you spark the Yehat rebellion, the Kzer-Za are just a bit busy with their Doctrinal Conflict. You'll note that the Androsynth opened their portal and got *pulled* within the past five years, according to Xenotech Killgore in the lander quotes. The Doctrinal Conflict starts as the game starts, meaning the Ur-Quan would've had time to come and assist the Androsynth. As for "destroying Dreadnoughts like tissue paper", the Androsynth wouldn't know that. Their Guardians are more than a match for the Nemesis.

Quote
I am eternally grateful for pointing out that extraordinary pertinent thing. I wish to apologize from the bottom of my heart for any distress this may have caused you.

Also I dislike arguing with someone who is apparently incapable of following something to it's logical conclusion.


1: It wasn't pertinent, it was just pissing me off.
2: Explain the logic of your logic. I'm following the way the game goes. As I stated before, this isn't a hypothetical situation; it's what happened. Whether or not the game follows logic, I don't know. All I know is I'm following the way the game goes.

BTW: This is a really good argument, and I haven't had one of those in a long time. So, seriously: Thanks! Smiley
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2003, 07:19:42 pm »

This is my own personal view on DF and the way it works, so take it however you'd like.

Picture space being a thick piece of cloth, and a ship being a needle. Space as we know it is a smooth and ordered thing. Pushing a needle through one end of fabric to the other is like traveling through space.

B_______________________________________________      A
  --------------------------------------------<=====================
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pushing through something like such would take a bit of time. DF, as I see it, would "fold" space, allowing the ships to move much faster from point to point.

Now, instead of pushing an I through an I, think of it as pushing an I through an S (I tried to draw this, no avail). It's the same amount of space, but folded as it were, to make travel easier.

This is just my concept of DF. If someone else has one, I'd love to see what it is! Smiley
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2003, 09:47:19 pm »

Quote
The Orz are living in another dimension, and they were not able to *smell* this one.
They are not alone in their dimension, there could be some dangerous entities (maybe parasites) living there, which are also able to *slide*. When the Androsynth opened that DF-portal, these entities came and spread like a disease throughout the Androsynth. When the Orz found out what happened, they *pulled* the Synths to protect this reality from the evil ones. They do not whish you to become aware of what happened as that means to become visible (*smellalbe*) to the parasites.
But since their own dimesion seems rather full, and they are having trouble keeping togeather there, they do not return, partly to ensure that no one will reopen a portal.


Darn good idea! Wish I could have thought of it. Grin OK this is my new official theory. Allow me to expand it a little:
Quote
Quote: "HE DID A LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE ANDROSYNTH'S COMPUTER BEFORE WE STOPPED HIM, AND I GUESS HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF IN THE PROCESS. HE'S CUT UP PRETTY BADLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STRANGE, HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT HIM, IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS EVEN MORE CUTS THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND BOY, IS HE SCREAMING! "

The scientest fellow on the planet was obviously being killed by one of the seminvisible ghost/energy things that did in the androsinth. I don't see what that has to do with the orz.
Seems to me the reason the Orz attack you if you ask to many questions about the Androsinth is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.
So why is it that everyone thinks the Orz are evil?


OK now were talking!

Quote
They didn't have a clue as to the potential side effects of the Artifact's power. Here, maybe this will help: You're an Androsynth, sick of his vessel's slow normal form. Upon planetfall on a routine search mission, you find an artifact wrought by the Precursors. Naturally, you'd take it home. Your Xenotechs research it, and find out that it can make rips in the fabric of space. Logcial conclusion: Rips in space = Teleportation = Faster transportation for the Guardians.  
Making viruses? Exploding? What the hell are you talking about?


What I am saying is that if I found an alien artifact that might do most anything and could be extremely dangerous I wouldn't take it home with me. I'd test it on a starbase or a ship or an uninhabited planet or a moonbase. I would not take it home to my most important population center until I compleatly understood it. And I would think the Androsynth would be at least this smart.

Quote
Yes they do. Yes it is. They probably did. Hmm, if you think about it, if the Androsynth tore a hole in space, it'd keep tearing as the planet moved and as long as the DF device was on, wouldn't it? That'd make it big enough for those uglies to stick their heads through.
How do you kill something you can't hit? They were "poltergeists" when they came through the portal, this is why the computer searches were so frantically looking for ghosts, wights, etc. I also really doubt that the Orz were going to be friendly if they came through without incident (which is most likely what they did.


You have a point. But how do you know that the Orz was ghostly when it first came through? That may just have been it's attack form.

Quote
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.


Then wouldn't they have also signald the Ur-Quan?

Quote
2: The Orz *pull* the Androsynth, then note that some of their technology could be of use, such as the Guardian's dualform. They take the ships afterward and research them themselves.
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.


Makes sense. Also accounts for where a starbase might have gone. But I dought the whole Androsynth fleet would have gone home and LANDED.

Quote
1. The Androsynth race are clones. Smell one, smell 'em all. Humans, who have genetic diversity, on the other hand, don't all smell alike.
2. I know. The Orz, as I've stated before, are bastards, but they're not stupid. If you saw a ship six times larger than two of yours put together and a fleet following it, are you going to blatantly attack it? It's like in SC3 with the Supox. They probably jumped them while they were in the Bubble, blew them apart w/ Marines, then dragged the Blade to Muhlifain, their Kessari *pretty space* base of ops. They're just waiting to kill you, I.E. the end of SC3.


Good idea. I never thought of it that way. Still after rubing elbows with the 2000+ crew of the starbase I figure they could work out a general *smell* for humans. Or they could have just killed everyone on the starbase with marines.


Quote
True, only in Unzervalt do you see one. When you spark the Yehat rebellion, the Kzer-Za are just a bit busy with their Doctrinal Conflict. You'll note that the Androsynth opened their portal and got *pulled* within the past five years, according to Xenotech Killgore in the lander quotes. The Doctrinal Conflict starts as the game starts, meaning the Ur-Quan would've had time to come and assist the Androsynth. As for "destroying Dreadnoughts like tissue paper", the Androsynth wouldn't know that. Their Guardians are more than a match for the Nemesis.


So your saying that when the Synth went off the air / sent a distress call the Ur-Quan did not come investigate? When the Androsynth went off the air wouldn't the 'Quans have thought something funny was happening. You know, like a slave rebelion?

Quote
This is my own personal view on DF and the way it works, so take it however you'd like.

Picture space being a thick piece of cloth, and a ship being a needle. Space as we know it is a smooth and ordered thing. Pushing a needle through one end of fabric to the other is like traveling through space.

B_______________________________________________ A
  --------------------------------------------<=====================
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------

Pushing through something like such would take a bit of time. DF, as I see it, would "fold" space, allowing the ships to move much faster from point to point.

Now, instead of pushing an I through an I, think of it as pushing an I through an S (I tried to draw this, no avail). It's the same amount of space, but folded as it were, to make travel easier.

This is just my concept of DF. If someone else has one, I'd love to see what it is!


Thats hyperspace. I figure DF is more like punching a hole in space to another universe.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2003, 11:09:00 pm »

Quote
What I am saying is that if I found an alien artifact that might do most anything and could be extremely dangerous I wouldn't take it home with me. I'd test it on a starbase or a ship or an uninhabited planet or a moonbase. I would not take it home to my most important population center until I compleatly understood it. And I would think the Androsynth would be at least this smart.


Yes, the Androsynth are smart, but one has to remember: The only planet that the 'synth had managed to colonize was Eta Vulpeculae II. They discovered something that they probably figured would give them some sort of edge. I mean, they'd see it and say, "It's Precursor! It's got to be good, right?....right?" I know that in SC1, whenever I found a Precursor artifact I'd dance for joy. They were probably so exuberant that they brought the darn thing straight home. Remember, Androsynth are modeled after humans, and we can collectively do some dumb things from time to time...this one just cost them dearly.

Quote
You have a point. But how do you know that the Orz was ghostly when it first came through? That may just have been it's attack form.


Were the Orz *light reflections* when they came through the portal, there would have been frantic searches on the Androsynth computers for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." rather than "Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc."

Quote
Then wouldn't they have also signaled the Ur-Quan?

Yes, and I forgot to mention it. Thanks.

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Makes sense. Also accounts for where a starbase might have gone. But I dought the whole Androsynth fleet would have gone home and LANDED.

Hey, if my homeworld was under attack and I was flying the best my race had to offer for combat capabilities, I'd come flying like a bat out of hell to help. Something that goes against my prior statement about no noticed wrecks of Guardians on the surface: Perhaps, the Guardians on return to home, were so zealous to land and assist that some crashed into each other during reentry and flamed into the cities, also causing a bit of destruction. Guess that might look like orbital bombardment, but I too doubt that the entire fleet would've gotten into the ship bunkers safe and sound.

Quote
Good idea. I never thought of it that way. Still after rubing elbows with the 2000+ crew of the starbase I figure they could work out a general *smell* for humans. Or they could have just killed everyone on the starbase with marines.


1: Remember: it's the year 2550. There will be humans with very diverse cultural backgrounds, males and females smell different I'd bet (remember, Androsynth were only males[neuters, really]), there'd be people with genetic enhancements, cybernetic parts, and I'd also wager that Espers smell VERY different.
2: To quote the Lk, "All creatures can be expected to betray others when it meets their needs." Basically, the Orz see no reason to betray us yet. They'd rather sniff around this side of reality a little while longer and look for a race that is easier prey than one with a huge Precursor vessel (it wound up being the Supox.).

Quote
So your saying that when the Synth went off the air / sent a distress call the Ur-Quan did not come investigate? When the Androsynth went off the air wouldn't the 'Quans have thought something funny was happening. You know, like a slave rebelion?

From http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc1/andrtech.shtml:
Quote
Androsynth "animosity" towards Earthlings is well-documented; the clones' wellspring of emotion has fueled 77 years of hostility. They adhere to Ur-Quan discipline gladly, as the Hierarchy's warmongering sates the Androsynth's lust for revenge.


They wouldn't want to revolt. They LIKED the Kzer-Za, because their doctrines fit theirs nearly to a T. It just shows that the Ur-Quan's are bastards as well. I mean, they never came to refuel the Earth Starbase, so they either simply ignored the Androsynth or figured they could handle themselves.

Quote
Thats hyperspace. I figure DF is more like punching a hole in space to another universe.


I'm sorry, I totally excluded one part of my theory, so yes, that one looks pretty dumb.

I failed to mention  the aspect and idea of it all is three dimentional, and quite hard to describe on here unless I could do some CAD drawings and slap em on here. Hmmm...ah.
Think of the fabric of space as four-dimentional, and the *depth* of the 3-D depth carries on forever, but not in the same *space*. The concept of the fabric goes forever, but there are layers to it. Picture, if you will, the universe as a TON of straight lines grouped tightly together. The lines horizontal with ours would be the same reality, but different parts of our reality. The lines above or below would be different realities, all with their own types of Hyperspace, etc. Shifting into hyperspace would be like turning left or right, you'd stay on the same plane of existence. When you shift dimentions, you head up or down and head into quasispace (*above*) or into *heavy* space (*below*). Sorry if it's a little cryptic (a drawing would make it better), but it's how I see alternate realities coexisting together. I have no idea what would be *left* or *right* of our Material Plane, but I'm a wanderluster so I'd LOVE to find out. Hmm...*switches majors to Alternative Physics with a minor in Philosophy*
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2003, 01:15:20 am »

Quote
Were the Orz *light reflections* when they came through the portal, there would have been frantic searches on the Androsynth computers for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." rather than "Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc."


"Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc." aren't the only searches. There is also a search for THE `MOSQUITO MANGE' which sounds a good deal like an attempt to figure out what one of the Orz best fit * words* meant. Of coarse there would be no need to search for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." because they could ask the Orz those questions and I gathered from the game that no other race of that varity had been encountered. Once the Orz went hostile and turned ghostly though they would natuarlly try to figure out what was going on.


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They wouldn't want to revolt. They LIKED the Kzer-Za, because their doctrines fit theirs nearly to a T. It just shows that the Ur-Quan's are bastards as well. I mean, they never came to refuel the Earth Starbase, so they either simply ignored the Androsynth or figured they could handle themselves.


I see. So you now agree that if they encountered the Orz they may have reported it back to the Ur-Quan / sent a distress call and the 'Quans did nothing? Furthermore the lander team says within the last 5 years. They do not say 5 years ago. So it could have been only 6 months or a year ago and so while the Ur-Quan were having their war. Also while there may be some spot in the game that says the Doctrinal War starts right at the begining of the game, I do not remember it and would appreciate if you would point out where it says this.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2003, 03:58:49 am »

Sorry to jump into the discussion at htis late stage, but I'd like to make one point about the doctrinal war.

From the Commanders comment : "The Ur-Quan were supposed to resupply this base at regular, five year intervals but we haven't received anything in almost eight years!"

One can deduce that the Doctrinal war has been going on for at least 3 years. The Quans run a lean and efficent operation. They keep their slaves in line, and they keep an eye on them. Otherwise the whole idea of an slave empire is a bit of a shamble.

So the Doctrinal wars do definetly start before the game starts. However, they could have started any time after the last resupply operation, so that gives us a timespan of 8-3 years before the game starts.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2003, 06:02:53 am »

Not necessarily. Perhaps they had intercepted radio transmissions from the Kohr-Ah, and were merely getting their forces ready for battle. Just a theory...
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2003, 06:41:39 am »

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The Quans run a lean and efficent operation. They keep their slaves in line, and they keep an eye on them. Otherwise the whole idea of an slave empire is a bit of a shamble.

Assuming your reasoning is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it), does that mean the Kzer-Za have been leaving ships behind to tend to their other slave races? In other words, are all the races that have been enslaved or enthralled half-way around the galaxy still being cared for?

If they're not, then any race that was slave-shielded made a poor choice. You should be a thrall so that way when the Quan leave, you're free to do whatever.

If they are, then that would seem to weaken the Kzer-Za nearly as much as the Shofixti's blaze of glory. The Kohr-Ah have no reason to leave any ships behind and so you'd think they'd be superior regardless of the Shofixti. And what's to guarantee that the distant thralls don't overthrow the few Ur-Quans sticking around?

Just something I'm wondering.
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2003, 03:43:25 pm »

Okay. Personally, I think it goes like this.

1. Androsynth find Precursor/whatever DF device.

2. They take it back to their homeworld, and probably thinking 'If anything bad happens we can contain it' they activate it.

3. Orz 'Ghosts' begin to appear, Androsynth begin searching for various things. (Ghosts, Wights, Wraiths etc.) Orz begin to *Smell* the Synth

4. The Androsynth send out a distress call to their ships.

5. Searchs intensify.

6. Orz begin to *pull* the synth.

7. Guardians land on planet, crews are *pulled* by the Orz.

?- Orz *pull* Guardians?

8. Androsynth begin to go mad with their searches. Orz begin to *Pull* more rapidly.

9. Androsynth are finally all *pulled* by the Orz.

10. Orz control Vulpuculae systems.

____
Now for some conjecture on my part.

Orz only seem to attack when they  *smell* enough. Maybe Orz think like this.

Small *Smells* - ignore
Medium *Smells* - watch
Large *Smells* - threaten
Extreme *Smells* -ATTACK!

Now, perhaps Humankind is a small *smell* and when any race opens a DF Portal they become 'Large' and when they begin to act hostile they go 'extreme' and the Orz *Pull* them.

Now, perhaps Orz don't see like that...

as we know small dimensional fatigue spots (SC III) attract Orz. Maybe DF spots, or portals or whatever act like beacons which the Orz investigate. And, if the Orz feel threatened or whatever they attack.


Perhaps it could be entirely different. I don't know...
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #73 on: September 13, 2003, 04:28:24 pm »

The Mosquito Mange has nothing to do with Orz best-fits, as far as I can tell. According to my research, Mosquito Mange, also known as graviconcentrates, is an area of abnormally high gravity on a planet surface. Imagine what it would be like if one of those spots happened to appear right below someone? One word. Squish!

The Orz first began *smell* this *level* when the Androsynth started to make *slippery places*. They may not have necessarily come through the DF portals the Synth made, rather when they became aware of this dimension/*time*/*space*/*level*, they started poking *fingers* through to have a look. Since they've already told us that what we see of them is not the totality of the Orz, it makes sense to assume that those ghosts were the Orz themselves, though not quite as "here" as they are when Zelnick encounters them.

Whatever the Synth saw of the Orz *fingers* was either chunks of the Orz; like an eye, a fin, or something like that; or more likely, a somewhat transparent variant of the Orz, or an aforementioned chunk. In either case, the Synths had every reason to freak out.

The whole idea that the Ur-Quan slave empire somehow manages to spread across half of a galaxy and remains intact is a bothersome one. I can't help but wonder how the hell the Kzer-Za have kept thier slaves in check (if at all)?

Also, on the topic of the length of the Doctrinal Conflict:

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Well what about the Ur-Quan? What are they up to?

Soon after the Ur-Quan defeated the Yehat and imprisoned the Syreen in Betelgeuse
their siblings arrived to initiate the Doctrinal Conflict.
This battle continues as we speak.

So, they've been at this for approximately 20 years? Seems a bit long, but considering this is a ritual battle for an important artifact, it might be logical. Then again, I can't help but wonder how the Zoq-Fot-Pik could keep themselves hidden away for so long.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2003, 04:33:47 pm by sageallen » Logged
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Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2003, 05:55:33 pm »

What are the Synth's personality like?

It may have something to do with being *pulled* or why they activated the portal on their homeworld.

If anyone's played MoO 3 the Antarans activated the first dimensional portal as far away from their empire as possible. And then a bit further.

Cause, if the Synth had a personality like "We don't need no stinkin security" then, it's pretty obvious why they activated it on their homeworld.

Personally, I think they thought if they couldn't handle what happened to Kzer-Za could...
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