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Author Topic: Eeeevil!  (Read 10951 times)
Gill_Bates
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2003, 06:09:10 pm »

I would like to add a few quotes from one of the other games that was also a breakthrough of it's time.


"Stand Aside Evil, Heros Coming Through."

and

"Evil meet sword, Sword, meet Eeeeevil!"

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Chrispy
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2003, 08:13:27 pm »

yes, actions would show how evil people are.
Since the genaral actions of the ur-quan race is to enslave other races, then they must be evil. The kohr-ra are evil as they kill people. Races like the VUX, and the mycon are hard to say, because they may be following the ur-quan out of fear. The Ilwrath are evil, and that is plain to anyone that talks to them. They may be following their religion, but they still kill because of that, and speaking to them, they seem to enjoy it.
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neo_b
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2003, 08:55:48 pm »

I sorta meant more on the line that actions are evil, and not that particular races were inherently evil...  I mean, does that mean the original predatory Ur-quan, before Dnyarri tinkering have always been evil?

btw, doesn't it depend on who's point of view?  To use the incredibly stupid Star Wars Ben Kenobi cop-out (paraphrase) "anything's true from a certain point of view".


Dang, and I forgot most of my Austin Power's quotes from Dr. Eeeevil...  Tongue
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Chrispy
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2003, 11:16:58 pm »

well then i should have said that these races are overall evil, during the timeframe of starcon 2. Afterwards, they may all appologise and be nice Cheesy
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Gill_Bates
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2003, 01:39:58 am »

This reminds me of the time I suggested a story for the sequel of SC2 happening in the time of the first war with the hirarchy where a human renegade would trade with the androsynth and the replies I got were that the human race would not trade with the synths as they were at war with them.
The point is (and was then) that we are dealing with individuals.
Like Zex who is different from the other VUX , you cannot define the entire race with one sentence.
The human race, likewise, isn't defined as a race of people who behave like the american stereotype for normality.
There can be good Kohr Ah and evil Chenjesu, it's all a matter of view point and opinion.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2003, 04:00:58 am »

Yep. One of the most complicated races is the ariloo. I can never tell what their up to
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2003, 04:02:20 am »

The american stereotype? Anyway, going back to the Synths, I think the main point we made against the smugglers idea was that the Earthlings had no Hyperspace capability until the Chenjesu arrived. and after that they were at war, so anything that could fly would be used by the military. There would probably be a state of emergency declared, with martial law and whatnot. Any "Millenium Falcon" type of ship capable of making it to the synth territory and back would probably not be in the hands of an independent contractor such as ourselves. Beisdes, who'd build it?

Also, the Synth have always struck me as a very... coherent race. I might be totally off here, but I think the synth more than any other race are quite alike. Effective, sleek and unemotional. There is no discord. Only unity. Join us. Resistance is futile.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2003, 04:36:46 am »

Quote

"Stand Aside Evil, Heros Coming Through."

and

"Evil meet sword, Sword, meet Eeeeevil!"



If I remember correctly, it was from baldur's gate II right? Minsc says it... YES, now I remember this minsc and the super-space giant hamster. Good game.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2003, 06:08:20 am »

Maybe the 'synth were sort of like an anti-Kohr-ah... instead of killing everything else to be safe, they're trying to avoid anything else.
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Yehat_Sympathizer
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2003, 06:37:33 am »

Not entirely relevant to this thread, but I'd like to bring to your attention the thread ATTN Fred: Groombridge dialog.

It involves the director's cut(!!!!) of SC2, and everybody is more than welcome to reply to it, after reading meep-eeps very enlightening comments on the subject.

and by the way, I think the Kohr Ah are the coolest in terms of lines, but the Druuge are definitely evil

terribly sorry for the intrusion, but your help is needed...
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Gill_Bates
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2003, 06:54:04 am »

Luk, you missed my point. The point was about treating each race as one individual with definite characteristics.
Maybe it's a flaw with the game itself  - the lack of characters defining each race in different ways.
The american stereotype part meant that the prospects of good and evil are too rigidly set: it's "us" against "them".
The "good americans" vs. "evil russians" or "evil terrorists" or whatever.
The one who meddles in the affairs of everyone in order to create a more just world must be according to this the "good guy" and those who oppose him are naturally the "bad guys".
This type of definition is often associated with the american mindset (as viewed in movies and other culture setting media). This is not meant to insult the american people but to show they have strong opinions about what is good and what is "evil", either in life or in this game.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2003, 04:45:05 pm »

Actually, my point was that it does not matter if there are individuals in the human race that would be ready to trade with the Synths, or synths rready and eager to barter with humans, as long as neither side had the opportunity to do so. It's like saying I'd make a great world ruler. While this is definetly true, it really doesn't matter one iota, as I have no chance of becoming supreme ruler.

As for the point of different individuals in different races, I do agree with that as I stated earlier.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2003, 03:48:10 am »

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You cant label things "good" and "evil"

When you start labeling things good and evil, you sound like George W. Bush. The lowest IQ president of the US ever. And thats not an exaggeration. He has an IQ of 89


False 'facts' are a pet peeve of mine: this is a hoax  see http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/lovenstein.html

With regard to what various peaple have  said about black and white viewpoints:
First, some things are evil, even if not everyone involved was.  For example, the vast majority of Germans were and are good people,  Nazi Germany as an institution was evil.  Or take the Russian army in the cold war.  The enlisted men were all drafted and had to do what they were told, many of the officers were simply serving their country.  The effect, the forceful subjegation of Eastern Europe and of the Russian people, was evil.    Brutal tyrrants may be loving husbands and fathers, even Hitler was good with children, but this changes nothing.  Moral relativisim taken to extremes is an intellectual quagmire, you get bogged down, unable to do anything,  because you have declared yourself incapable of making unbiased judgements.   Sometimes generalizations are more accurate than a more detailed analysis because a body of individuals can be better or more evil than the sum of its members.
On the other hand, too much perspective is obviously a problem. For a long time people looked at the bible and said that pyramid workers must have been slaves, but actual excavation shows that they were highly skilled and well paid
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 03:49:10 am by Captain_Nemo » Logged
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2003, 07:22:42 am »

All of this discussion on which race is noblwe really depends on where you are viewing it from. Try looking from the stance of the Ilwrath, for example. Killing is the way that they please their gods, and therefore, they kill in order to 'save themselves' or some such. As we live in a society that sees killing as the highest evil (one of the highest evils, whatever, I do not want to get into a discussion of what is more 'evil' than killing), we see this as evil.

The Kohr-Ah are killing for self-preservation, as they see it. They think that they will be enslaved again if they don't wipe out every other sentient life form.

And, of course, the Druuge. They enslave and kill for their own personal gain, a business standpoint, here. They are just capitalists, very greedy capitalists. Couldn't you say that everyone who is forced to work to feed themselves or their families, are also enslaved, yet with more privileges than the 'traditional' slave?

The Thraddash fight just for the sake of fighting, is that evil, too?

Just some points to think about.
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Re: Eeeevil!
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2003, 01:36:31 pm »

Quote
Interesting point coming up now. How does the Druuge society keep itself alive? If you keep tossing your working force, you won't have anyone left to breed and such. Perhaps special breeding harems? "Hey dad." "Who are you?" "I'm your 42nd son."

Simple enough.
Breeding chambers (though they never told themselves of how fast they breed/mature) and Slave Trade.

You work and work and work. You're only feeding the furnace if you are fighting. And I'd asume there's a pecking order in business, from mongul to worker to bottom-fodder.

Is it those on the lowest working tier, those who just fail miserably once, or are there people specified "log/slaves"? Or all of the above. After all, in desperate times, "log/slaves" can become useful in menial tasks.

But, as a slightly earlier post said, it's all on perspective. Look at how the Melnorme view Earthling "altruism".

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