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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: UQM fork  (Read 13954 times)
Deep-Jiffa
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2003, 12:31:57 pm »

I have changed my post endlessly. Read it now. Final version unless ill find more bugs...
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2003, 12:41:34 pm »

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Well if anyone saw my thread "ships from best to worst" I change the orz nemesis rate to first!!!!!! The marine troopers there move faster than thraddash with full speed!!!!!!! And the nemesis itself too!!! LoL, ok the sa-matra goes back to first, damn those fire balls are quick!!!!!!!! And the dyniarii looks like chineese dude!!! Thanx for making this great mod!!!! Hours to laugh!!!
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Paxtez
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2003, 03:32:46 pm »

You really should make this from the current cvs tree, for zip file support and such...
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2003, 10:36:45 pm »

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the part that becomes incredibly boring after a while: the lander subgame / mining stuff. I think one way to improve it would be to introduce several new classes of life forms
An addition that would fit right in to this would be Starflight style trading.  Different races with various race/planet specialty goods as well as more common goods and trade routes that you could come up with on your own or buy information on, etc.
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Death 999
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2003, 08:49:04 pm »

For moderating the high speeds of ships, you might want to have engines only give full acceleration when they haven't been used for a while -- while you thrust, a timer is counting up. While you are not thrusting, it counts down. If the timer exceeds some value, then the effectiveness of your thrust diminishes somewhat.

That way, pkunk can be very evasive -- sudden high acceleration and all that -- but only if they haven't been pedal-to-the-metal the whole time.

Just an idea...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2003, 08:49:27 pm by Death_999 » Logged
Deep-Jiffa
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2003, 08:51:26 pm »

Death what he did there is hopeless... Just play it and start laughing  Grin Grin Grin
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Death 999
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2003, 09:09:35 pm »

Well, I have seen fully inertial games work before. However, they typically had low long-term accelerations. This would help with that. On the other hand, they also had high weapons ranges, which Star Control does not, in general.
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Brent Dill
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2003, 01:52:21 am »

Grr. Forum's not letting me log in.

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Death what he did there is hopeless... Just play it and start laughing


You know, I can accept that you didn't like what I've got so far. Fine. But please stop being an ass about it.
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Death 999
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2003, 02:53:37 am »

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You know, I can accept that you didn't like what I've got so far. Fine. But please stop being an ass about it.


Well, he does have the point that the ships were meticulously balanced towards the physics they started in. Coercing them into any relativistic system (i.e. Galileian relativity) really eliminates an assymmetry and parameter on which they had relied for game balance.
SOME solution needs to be made, and it will have to be fairly drastic.

I do agree that the objections have been phrased rather abrasively.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 03:02:45 am by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2003, 07:49:22 am »

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Well, he does have the point that the ships were meticulously balanced towards the physics they started in. Coercing them into any relativistic system (i.e. Galileian relativity) really eliminates an assymmetry and parameter on which they had relied for game balance.
SOME solution needs to be made, and it will have to be fairly drastic.


I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I started this thread. I hope that anyone interested in this project will continue to provide feedback as I continue to develop the gameplay, so the final product will be something agreeable to all parties. I WANT to keep playbalance, and your idea of having thrusters 'overheat' after a certain duration at full throttle is an excellent idea, and one I had not thought of. I'll try implementing it tonight.

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I do agree that the objections have been phrased rather abrasively.


That's the entirety of my problem, here. I have zero problem with constructive criticism; I merely request that it be civil, and actually constructive.
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thechortler
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2003, 11:20:59 am »

I'm surprised no one else has said this--I support Brent's physics modifications 100%.  They'd be freaking sweet!  At last fast ships have a REAL advantage, that is, a cumulative delta-V increase over slower ones.  No longer can an Ur-Quan use a pincer move with fighters!  The projectile bit--THANK YOU.  No single element of SC1 and 2 annoys me more.  The stuff about no plants and no asteroids in deep space is, in a word, brilliant, simply because there's literally nothing out there.  Of all the things SC2 does well, capturing the vastness and emptiness of space is definitely not one of them.  I'm not so sure about his other ideas, namely multiple ships on screen at once (if implemented correctly it'd be a whole new game, but it'd be a bitch to pull off), but Brent, go with your original physics ideas.  They'll completely overhaul the game into something much better.
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Talhydras
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2003, 12:06:34 pm »

I agree with Death. Constructive Criticism = Good. Abrasiveness and assishness = *frumple*. Modding a game and balancing it is VERY hard work and is VERY time consuming. Until you try, do not bitch.

Physics Suggestions: A speedometer, with red/yellow values indicating dangerous speed? Perchance when you reach the end of the map, instead of wrapping around you can orbit the map? that way nobody is cornered? being cornered would sucka. Maybe when you reach the edge you can keep flying and have the option to either orbit or hyperjump out of battle, having left the planet's gravwell?

Earthling Cruiser missiles oughta have a huge range, same with all tracking projectiles. Recommend range increases in general to compensate for speed increase. Playtesting to ensue, perchance? I've done a little bit of tweaking, and the Yehat railguns will need increased bullet speed and bullet range, or else you'll never hit anything. Probably that is true for most other ships with rapid fire projectiles as well. Collisions, for ships that ram like the ZFP and the Shofixti, will also be tough at higher speeds.

The suggestion to have acceleration be available in bursts seems good, too. I am totally behind ye, Brent! Good luck, mate.
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Deep-Jiffa
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2003, 12:08:44 pm »

Ok, I'll try to relax... But you have to understand me. Seeing the chmmr flying with ultra speed and his satelites trying to catch up with him is a little bit funny  Grin

By the way, I have only checked the melee part because the game crashes one minute after I start any type of game. Some of your ideas are brilliant but you MUST change the melee horror you did.
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2003, 04:51:48 pm »

Ooohhh my.. you'll have a lot of work to do with this. It's not just the way the ships act now, it's the way their weapons act.

- For some strange reason Ilwrath's flame and Pkunk's bullets are getting some extra speed from the ship which gives them greater range when firing at the dircetion they're going. I guess that's easy to deal with cause other ships (Ur-Quan, Yehat, Utwig) are ok with great speeds so all you have to do is see how it's done with them.

- The Chmmr zapsats should be bound to the ship like Kohr-Ah's F.R.I.E.D flame, or maybe they need better acceleration, or maybe you didn't disable their speed limit.

- Mycon's plasmoids which can accelerate to looney speeds make the podship invincible, but the Earthling cruiser's nukes dont accelerate so they wont be able to reach the enemy ship and are likely to kill the crusier.

- Ditto Orz's marines and Quan's fighters.

And there's one thing that unbalances the game like hell:
Arilou and Slylandro. They don't accelerate. Arilou has two modes: moving and standing still, while Slylandro is just moving. This means they can only go at one speed. They were the fastest now they are the slowest.

The overheating thruster is a good idea but it wont help with mentioned problems. All it would do is make the accelerating bit slower. Besides Pkunk's and Ilwarth's bullets act looney even at low speeds. And I dont know what are you going to do with Mycon's plasmoids...

Well, I wish you good luck anyway.
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Re: UQM fork
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2003, 09:18:48 pm »

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- For some strange reason Ilwrath's flame and Pkunk's bullets are getting some extra speed from the ship which gives them greater range when firing at the dircetion they're going. I guess that's easy to deal with cause other ships (Ur-Quan, Yehat, Utwig) are ok with great speeds so all you have to do is see how it's done with them.


... it's called inertia. Galileian relativity. This is how it SHOULD act... Also, I think the Thraddash will be a lot more powerful in this version, because they can fling their fire all over the place.

Quote
And I dont know what are you going to do with Mycon's plasmoids...


How about have missiles only have a certain amount of delta-v on board, and make them prefer to use it to track (lateral acceleration, with (acceleration)•(displacement to target) == 0) rather than simply accelerate toward the target...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2003, 09:19:36 pm by Death_999 » Logged
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