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Author Topic: Melee Planet Problems  (Read 4882 times)
Spurk
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Melee Planet Problems
« on: August 30, 2003, 05:42:04 am »

Let me first say how grateful I am to all those involved in bringing Ur-Quan Masters to the masses. It's better than opiate.

I've been playing a lot of melee recently and I've run into something that annoys me, namely the planet. It's annoying for me to be zoomed all the way in taking shots at the opponent and all of a sudden my speed and direction change and I find myself crashing into the planet. Or alternatively, if I'm in an Earthling Cruser and want to get some speed, I'd like to know where the planet is and it's very annoying (and sometimes costly) to have to fly around the map looking for it.

What I'd like is some sort of planet indicator. I don't know if that should be a little melee map with a dot representing the planet, you, and your opponent, or if there should be a small arrow on the corner of the screen pointing out the direction of the planet (and, preferably, the proximity as well) or what.

Anyway, I don't know if this curses anyone else much, but I've had one too many times of running into the planet because I didn't know it was there, and one too many times of not finding it because I wasn't looking in the right spot. It also annoys me the way the computer seems to know where the planet is regardless. A recent battle confused me when the computer's Kor-Ah started flying away at an angle from my Utwig until I noticed my Utwig being pulled into the planet. If the computer knows where the planet is, then I want to know too, darnit.

Does anyone else feel this way?
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Paxtez
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2003, 08:11:02 am »

It has been suggested a few times, and personally I think it would be a good idea.  No idea if it would ever be added to the UQM.
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2003, 08:53:48 am »

Ha ha. I remember complaining about this ever since Star Control I. I just shyed away frm skirmishes and just stuck with a relatively safe hit-n-run tactic (so I'd keep zooming out to see where the planet was)

A nice "proximity" alert might be nice. (such as a flashing crew meter when nearing another object, intense flashes for dangerous collisions.. but that sounds rather awkward)

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Slylendro
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2003, 06:28:35 pm »

i think it's a good idea

make a planet indicator like in Timewarp
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought
such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea.
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2003, 07:55:57 pm »

Quote
Let me first say how grateful I am to all those involved in bringing Ur-Quan Masters to the masses. It's better than opiate.

Gentle blobbies, please calm yourselves. We act solely from largesse. Rewards are unnecessary.  Smiley

Quote
I've been playing a lot of melee recently and I've run into something that annoys me, namely the planet.


I've also been playing a lot of melee recently, and I've run into something that annoys me, namely the Ilwrath ship. It's annoying for me to be taking shots at the opponent and miss because it was out of range or between firing angles, but I couldn't see it. Or alternatively, if I'm in an Earthling Cruser and want to hit the opposing Ilwrath with a missile, I'd like to know where the ship is and it's very annoying (and sometimes costly) to have to fly around the map looking for it.

What I'd like is some sort of cloaked ship indicator. I don't know if that should be a little melee map with a dot representing the ship, you, and your opponent, or if there should be a small arrow on the corner of the screen pointing out the direction of the ship (and, preferably, the proximity as well) or what.

Anyway, I don't know if this curses anyone else much, but I've had one too many times of getting killed by the Ilwrath because I didn't know it was there, and one too many times of not finding it because I wasn't looking in the right spot. It also annoys me the way the computer seems to know where the Ilwrath is regardless. A recent battle confused me when the computer's Kohr-Ah started firing from halfway across the map and scoring direct hits even though I was cloaked. If the computer knows where the Ilwrath is, then I want to know too, darnit.

(Note to the irony-impaired: I actually think both are a bad idea.  If the computer has an "unfair" advantage or two, that's all the more reason to play human opponents Tongue )
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Spurk
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2003, 10:33:17 pm »

Quote

I've also been playing a lot of melee recently, and I've run into something that annoys me, namely the Ilwrath ship.

While I appreciate your humor, I still find it necessary to point out that the point of the Ilwrath is to be somewhat unknown in position. The planet, by contrast, is a large visible object with significant gravity that would show up even on Tanaka's damaged sensors.

But oh well, the problem annoys me enough to mention it on these boards, but not enough to stop playing or try to learn the code to insert planet detecting code myself. I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way I did.
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Nic.
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2003, 11:37:46 pm »

I've had more than my fair share of games where I've wondered if I accidentally installed "Precursor Planet Attractors" or somesuch on my ship, and it is quite frustrating; but I happen to be of the mindset that knowing where the planet is, and being able to mentally track its location (and hence, avoid it) while you're playing, is what seperates the good players from the rest of us mortals.  Adding a planet locator would take some of the skill (and IMO, some of the fun) out of the melee.

Just my $0.02 USD.  I'm sure many will disagree.

Somewhat on-topic: who else thinks that the "deep space" encounters in the full game should be planet-free?  If so, would you then, if you had your way, attempt to compensate for this by giving the battlefield extra asteroids?  Just a thought..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2003, 11:38:11 pm by Nic. » Logged
Captain Smith
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2003, 02:45:26 am »

I guess the thinking on the planet depends on the person and experience.  I'm largely OK with the planet and can handle it.  Part of what you need to learn young padawans is that you need to learn how each of the ships control.  If the controls change, you know you're near the planet and can take actions.

Of course, the asteroids are what really annoy me and many an opponent has won a battle against me because of asteroidal intervention.
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Lukipela
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2003, 04:06:18 pm »

I agree with Nic on this, not knowing is more fun.

As for deep space encounters... It is certainly a good point. What are the chances of running into a planet in that large empty void EVERY time you meet an enemy ship? Possibly more asteroids could be added to make it trickier. Being without a planet is complicated though, it leaves you unable to do all those lovely gravity whips. Perhaps you could have 'planetoids' instead of planets? Some sort of  large asteroid, big enough to exert a certain gravitic force, but in no way as powerful as a 'real' planet.
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umgahbob
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2003, 12:44:36 am »

Those black holes would suck... seriously.  Tongue

Anyway, I agree with Nic as well. I think a planet indicator would take some of the fun out of the game. TimeWarp has a planet indicator, and it does make it too easy to dodge the planet.
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2003, 04:22:26 am »

how about you know... ASKING fred or paul?
for those who say an indicator will take the fun out of the game,
just make a switch so you can turn it on\off

« Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 04:22:46 am by Slylendro » Logged

It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought
such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea.
Nic.
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2003, 05:18:18 am »

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how about you know... ASKING fred or paul?

For what?  I don't think anything we do requires their prior blessing..

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for those who say an indicator will take the fun out of the game, just make a switch so you can turn it on\off

Anyone who wants to is more than free to code one up and submit it to the project via Bugzilla.  The real trick in my opinion is making the indicator "look good" as well as "work correctly"; something that Timewarp's planet indicator still hasn't quite gotten right (theirs gets full points for accuracy, none for aesthetics, at least in my book) so I think anyone who wants to tackle this one has their work cut out for them.
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Captain Smith
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2003, 12:47:09 pm »

Interesting fact too that kind of makes me like the planets that I just figured out (and use in last ditch situations):

If you are VUX and you limpet the ships enough to remove any kind of engine capability the ship eventually floats towards the planet and perishes...of course you could always use your repulsor beam and help matters along.  Grin
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Spurk
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2003, 07:53:16 pm »

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If you are VUX and you limpet the ships enough to remove any kind of engine capability the ship eventually floats towards the planet and perishes...of course you could always use your repulsor beam and help matters along.  Grin

That worked a lot better in Star Control I. In SC1 the planet's gravity was stronger and so when a planet got caught in its pull, it didn't escape. In sc2/uqm, the ship will often crash into the planet, but bounce back and out of its pull.
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PakoPako
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Re: Melee Planet Problems
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2003, 10:53:54 am »

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I agree with Nic on this, not knowing is more fun.

Or it forces you to select alternate methods of attack.
Meh, an option to have it would be nice, but it's also possible to learn to live with it. (especially since a lot of my Arilou tactics revolve around people not knowing where it is *snorksnorksnork*)

Quote
In SC1 the planet's gravity was stronger and so when a planet got caught in its pull, it didn't escape. In sc2/uqm, the ship will often crash into the planet, but bounce back and out of its pull.

I believe in SC2 there are also signs of strong gravity.
Earthlings Cruisers and Chenjesu Broodhomes have significant difficulty escaping a planet if they wandered in, as opposed to crash, get caught, and repusled at 4x their initial speed.

I don't suppose anyone remembers ASTEROIDS? Specifically their sequel, MAELSTROM. The control was similar to Star Control: overhead control of a ship confined in a wrapped screen. They had random, ship-sized black holes appear in higher levels the game.
These black holes would emit a strong attraction to anyone within half the screen or so toward it, allowing the ship to whip past it, almost out of control or get sucked into it and die.

Granted, it's just an alternative idea to deep-space planets, it does sound like it would really suck to have one in the middle of a deep-space melee. Random death is never looked on too highly. It, at the very least, looks out of place. Like a random meteor storm or precursor power-up drifting by. Embarrassed

Although this is off topic, I'd really sooner rather see a massive melee mode {3+ players} appear later on. Think of the epic battles one could orchestrate amongst friends. Things like the Fortress Square would change melee completely. :drools:
I know this isn't on anyone's mind right now, as there'd have to be ways to 'paint' enemies and keep tabs on allies and such, but it's a nice dream to keep in mind.

To paraphrase the Ilwrath, maybe "real soon". Grin

-=PakoPako=-
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 11:01:10 am by pakopako » Logged

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