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Author Topic: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship  (Read 63961 times)
Spurk
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2003, 08:03:58 am »

Quote
Well, I'm getting tried of typing maybe, I'll contiune in another time.

Argh. Continue now! I have yet to be effective with an Utwig versus the Slylandro. Tell me how you beat it. The slylandro spins around me faster than I can keep up and its fire is haphazard enough to run my shields down.
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2003, 09:07:36 am »

Yes but he do it close. If you have good reflexes you will destroy it easily. The probe is fast, but not enough to dodge bullets from close distance.
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2003, 11:24:02 am »

Heh heh, my favourite would be the Spathi. It will sometimes be a loooong battle, but I've beaten Dreadnoughts with it.

Basically the only strategy:

RUNRUNRUNRUNRUNFIREFIREFIRERUNRUNRUNRUN... and so on and so forth. Cheesy
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2003, 10:17:16 pm »

i find that the spathi is best aganst ships like the ur-quan and kohr-ah.what u have to do it sorta weev in and out and fire missiles at the right time. U can beat almost anything slower than u like this (orz, druuge)
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2003, 09:02:00 am »

Before I begin, I must wax melancholy for a moment:

NECRO-99: Blazer mode can be outrun by at least FIVE ships. You said three, and listed four. Ahead of the Druuge at full recoil speed, there's the fastest ship in the game: Umgah in full reverse.
The Torch, on full afterburners, is also pretty fast.

SPURK: The Utwig can turn and flank down a Probe. But the Probe has a good chance of closing in and doing at least some damage.

And here's something I need to get off my chest.
I compiled a Speed Team for the PC SC2, and I find that while similar, the UQM speed rating is a little different.

Fastest Ships:
1. Umgah (Reverse)
2. Druuge (Recoil)
3. Thraddash (Afterburn)
4. Pkunk
5. Andro (Comet), Slylando
6. TransFormer (Y-Form)
7. Spathi
8. Arilou, ZoqFot, Supox
9. Syreen, Utwig
10. ORZ, Shofixti

And now, my personal favorite: the SPATHI ELUDER.
I like it not only because it can keep up with the rest of the best (Guardian/Blazer, Terminator, Jugger, Blade, Fury, X-form...) but because people have written about the rest of the best. Roll Eyes

(+) Large crew, front and rear firing, good range, speedy
(¬) Slow battery regeneration, low damage
(those two combined kills any "threat factor" Spathi may have)

VS Dreadnought
All great tactics involve running away. This is no different. You have to lull the enemy, computer or human, to chase you and rain BUTTs all day. If they stay still and try to pillbox, the Spathi is maneuverable enough to get past a swarm of fighters by either shooting them with the main weapon or letting them crash into things and fire inbetween the Dreadnaught's slow turns. The range of their Fusion blast is equal to that of your BUTT, but because your BUTTs are homing, feel free to keep your distance. It'll be even easier if they try to chase you.

VS Podship
The Eluder is fast enough to sometimes make the Mycon run into their own Plasma. The Mycon user will most likely use a gravity whip to their advantage, but if you can get to him before he reaches the planet, the Eluder's BUTT missiles can still hit them as you fly out of the range of their plasma. If not, predict when the Mycon will pass by and give'em a taste of the main weapon. If the Podship is trying to stay away and regenerate crew, don't wait. Charge in. If it insists on running, you should still be able to nick it with your main gun. Normally, it will try to slow down and shoot at you, but the Podship only gets 2 shots at best. A good Spathi pilot can weave past the first bolt while it's still small, empty it's main gun into the Podship, and run away when he fires the 2nd. If you wish, you can also try to keep the screen at maximum zoom if the Podship is trying to go for another slingshot, hoping he blindsides into the planet.

VS Discriminator
A classic mirror match. Humans and computers won't chase each other successfully (the BUTT isn't fast enough to hit another Eluder) and ironically may end up playing chicken.  Grin
The CPU in all versions seems stupid enough to use BUTTs more than its main weapon during high-speed manuevers and runs into them a lot.

VS Guardian
Abso-Poso-Tivo-FREAKIN'-Lutely Lovely.
Try to get them to chase you and fire BUTTs at MAXIMUM RANGE.  Against a Human that don't want to chase you, I suggest using the main gun. One or two bullets might get through the field. By far, the hardest part isn't getting past the bubble-field, but avoiding the Comet form. If it turns into a comet, just turn & burn hoping asteroids or a planet will get inbetween. You NEED to use the grav-whip to attain enough speed to even MATCH the speed of a Comet-form. If you get out of this fight alive, consider yourself lucky not have bumped into an Asteroid during the slingshot. And don't even think that once the Blazer runs out of fuel you can get a lick in. It'll regenerate and CRUSH you in seconds. The Comet form is as fast as a Slylandro in UQM.
Ah. And a bug I found when playing with a dummy human. It may have been the key combination I had, the fact that I had a twitchy joystick plugged in as an alternative control, but whenever I had the Mauler shoot & furnace, the Androsynth would turn into a comet for a split-second, using 3 units of fuel, then revert even if it had a full battery.

VS Intruder
At the start, just look to RUN AWAY. Once you get out of its proximity hyperwarp, the VUX is Swiss Cheese. While limpets have good range, and the VUX may wish to slingshot itself to get a wider spread, the Spathi is quick enough to dode and fire a BUTT salvo intercept.

VS Avenger
I dislike fighting the new UQM Ilwrath AIs with an Eluder. You are forced to get in close and try to "aim" with the main weapon as BUTTs will not track. The main gun isn't so bad either as its fast enough to strafe well. If an Ilwrath is trying to dog you down, fire a BUTT near its face. A CPU might de-cloak for a second and allow BUTTs to home in. A Human might not know exactly where they are and risk taking the hit.

VS Drone
BUTT missiles can sometimes wind up going around their anti-matter cone, but always BEWARE not to face the rear of a Drone. It can almost teleport next to you (that Reverse is the fastest form of movement in the game outside an actual teleport) and eat a chunk of crew.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VS Broodhome
A pretty hard match. A Broodhome can try and pillbox you by launching DOGIs to keep you away and out of fuel, and using it's INSANE range & shards to hit you. Against a passive opponent, you have to weave past the DOGIs, rush in while they're still turning, and strafe them with either weapon on the pass. Against a more aggressive player who slingshots while shooting, it can seem pretty hectic with all the shards and DOGIs in space. It's unlikely that they'll get a clean hit against you, though and, hopefully, the Broodhome has difficulty telling where the planet is. Beware though, the shards still hurt and you need to find a way to get close to use your weapons. Due to the large crew complement of the Chenjesu, try to remain patient as you chip away with BUTTs and bullets.

VS Terminator
Im-FREAKIN'-possible.
A good Yehat character can hold its fire until it gets a lock-on, conserving energy to use the shield. Try to see if the Terminator is going for a strafe, or just chasing you. If it's chasing you, you can TRY to launch a slow series of BUTTs and hope that it's battery is drained enough for one to connect. If you're feel lucky, fire off a BUTT to the side, psyching the opponent to use his shield early, then a long burst of your main weapon. If it looks like the Yehat is looking for the planet going for a strafe, stay the hell away. If you can anticipate when the Yehat will slingshot, you might be able to fire a spray and get in a bullet or two. But always beware of entering a dogfight. The spray the Yehat has is too concentrated, and it has enough energy to abosrb all your shots, regenerate, and fire off a few rounds before you regain your fuel. Best you can do is stay away, and hope you do them in with enough lucky shots and planet collisions.
Oh, and the UQM CPU cheats! It can initially turn on the shield for only 1 Battery unit. You can still psyche it out into using it's shield early though, but it's still insanely hard to get a hit in.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll have to test out the rest in UQM later, but nothing seems terribly tough for the Eluder except perhaps the Transform, Penetrator, and Nemesis.

-=PakoPako=-
« Last Edit: September 07, 2003, 09:04:24 am by pakopako » Logged

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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2003, 09:47:30 am »

'll write up a VUX strategy list for yall.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a VUX that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

Key tactic for limpeting against any of the "easy limpet targets" I mention is to always run away and make them chase you.

Ur-Quan: You have no chance of winning this one, the best thing you can do if this ship warps in as a VUX is to get as many limpets on him as you can before you go down.

Orz: Almost no chance of winning this one.  If you can get a few limpets on him and get back towards him to blast him before the marines finish you off you might get a win, but usually the best you can do here is get a few limpets on the Orz.

Chmmr: Limpet-proof and you can't run away from him - all you can do is go in at an angle where his laser is not and blast away until you go down.

Mycon: Very nasty to fight.  You can usually stand off and blow away the plasma balls until you can find the planet to do a gravity whip to get some limpets on the Mycon so it can't run away from you.  Then you do the stand-off thing with the plasma balls until you get close.  The best thing for you is if he uses his crew regeneration special near you, otherwise you will get hit at least once or twice with plasma, but it is possible to win against this one.

Androsynth: The comet form is nasty and the bubbles aren't much better.  And even worse for you the limpets don't effect the comet form.  Basic thing you can do is try to graze him with shots as he flies by you and avoid the bubbles.  Very long fight, at least until Andy comets right into you.

Earthling: Punishing fight, but winnable.  You will likely get hit a few times with nukes.  First thing you do is find the planet and get a gravity whip.  While on the gravity whip, limpet away.  He'll PD some of them, but some will stick to him
(good news for you in both counts).  Get near him and laser away - limpet every once in a while to make him draw his power down in using the PD on the limpets.

Ilwrath: Good luck.  Usually I like to gravity whip and fling limpets in his general direction.  If one gets close he fires
and the others seek onto him.  Then since the Ilwrath will fire pointing towards you when uncloaked, you have to be a real
careful pilot and guess one of his wingtips and shoot away once you get enough limpets onto him.  He'll hurt you some, but you'll hurt him more.  Hint: the Ilwrath's always in the corner the opposite of you.

Chenjesu: Chenjesu by itself - easy fight.  Chenjesu with DOGIs - nasty fight.  Basically you see what your enemy is in this fight that makes it nasty - the DOGIs.  Gravity whip to get limpets into the Chenjesu - even he can outrun you.  Then your next job is quite tricky - get rid of the DOGIs while staying close enough to limpet the main ship (he fires and drains his battery so he can't create any more DOGIs - usually he has 2 or 3 out by the time I'm ready to get to the main ship) - what I do is get next to the Chenjesu and fire a limpet as I turn and thrust towards the ship - I end up going in a circle and the Chenjesu usually wipes out the DOGIs itself.  Once all the DOGIs are gone, keep sending a limpet every couple of seconds to keep the Chenjesu's power drained and then when you have full power, laser it.  Nasty fight.

VUX: Reflexes and observation.  Whichever one gets the drop wins, and even the winner loses by getting limpets to deal with for the next fight.

Arilou: Hard fight, basically limpet-proof - he teleports before they can hit.  Launch a limpet to keep him away from your
backside, but mainly stay towards the front and laser (he will teleport likely).  Repeat and win.

Shofixti: You can get limpets on this guy if you work hard enough.  The problem is that glory device of his, since you can't laser him without getting in range of it.  You can win with a full complement after he uses it, but if not, consider your ship gone.  Lose a ship or win at a cost with this guy.

Mmrnmhrm: Hard fight, but basically winnable.  Wierd quirk here is that the X and Y form are both independent of each other when it comes to limpets, so you will have to limpet in both forms.  Limpet and slow down the Y-form first or he'll pick you to death with the missiles.  Gravity whip and limpet as he flies by a few times to slow him down - then figure out a way to get behind him.  Stay away though as he will change to the X-form turn rather fast and blow you away.  Try to keep limpeting the ship, and a few will catch his X-form to slow him down that way.  Then charge up and blow him away.

Slylandro: hard fight to deal with for the speed.  Limpet to keep him away for most part - gravity whip helps.  You can
either get limpets on him (very hard but possible) and slow it down or fire out a limpet and turn a direction and laser as he
flies by.  Pillboxing is your best friend on this one.

Pkunk: hard fight, same as the Slylandro basically, but harder to get limpets on.  The pillboxing technique with the limpets (fire one limpet, track and fire) works the best to get a win here.  I would even question the wisdom of trying to limpet the Pkunk down because when a re-generation happens, the limpets disappear, making all of your work a waste.

Kohr-Ah: difficult but very winnable.  Run in between the firing angles as you limpet away and get a few on him.  Then the
hardest part of the fight - you have to get behind him - the blades travel faster than you can so you can't avoid them.  Once you get behind him, you have two threats, blades and the corona.  The tracking speed of the blades is actually fast enough to threaten you so you have to move and lead the blades away from you.  Limpet occasionally to make him use his corona and then blast away when you get enough energy (be watchful of those blades though).

Druuge: Easy fight, if you don't get in the sights of that cannon - he's a sharpshooter that rarely misses.  Hard and nasty fight, because often he does.  Stay away from the firing angles of the cannon, fire your limpets, some will hit - this makes him drift and unable to right himself...have him drift by you into range and laser him.

Supox: easy fight - get limpets on him and he's done, always run away when you limpet.  The limpets will also keep him away from firing on you for most part.

Umgah: easy fight - get limpets on him and avoid when he zips in...then pilot in a circle around his anti-matter field and
laser away.

Spathi: easy fight - get limpets on him and he's done, always run away when you limpet.  Harder though because he's a threat from 360 degrees - keep out of range, charge up, fly in and nail him.

Utwig: easy fight, as long as you can get enough limpets before he gets to full speed - if he gets in range of you with his guns you're done.  Fly around him and limpet until you get on his backside, let him discharge his shield (he uses 2 points of energy to shield and only gets back 1 if you tap him with your laser, if your human enemy doesnt let the shield go all the way like the computer does) and then discharge your laser into him.

Syreen: easy fight, get limpets on the ship and it's done.  Main problem you have is the siren call, when you go into range to blow it away, but the only annoyance you'll have is picking up your crew after this ship dies.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Zebranky food.  Get limpets on him, fly in, blast away.

Yehat: a little bit harder fight than the last few.  Very easy to limpet down, but you have to get through that shield of his
to hurt him, and he's only really lets it down when he fires.  True stalemate here almost.  Usually I charge up, drift around
to his front, and fire away when he decides to fire.  Hurts half of my crew in the end, but the Yehat goes down.  If you have
a small complement of VUX on your ship, have your crew say their last rites because you're losing a ship unless you can get him to drift into the planet repeatedly.

Thraddash: wait for him to come to you, then limpet and laser away.  Cannon fodder to most all species and the VUX is no
exception.

Melnorme: easy to limpet, harder if he hits you with the confusion ray or charges a ball up to red.  In that case stay out of range and limpet and it will eventually let it go.  Fly in, avoid his gun and fire away.  Easy fight overall.
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2003, 05:36:28 pm »

Pakopako the cpu doesn't cheat. I can do it myself but I am not a computer so I can't do it forever. Shield cost 3 units. The yehat regenerate 2 units. 3-2=1 The yehat shield isn't like the jugger ship. If you hold the special move key it will keep draining the battery for no use. A good pilot can use it like a computer does by pressing the special move key again in the split sec the shield turns off. Against 3-2=1. Ok pako?
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2003, 12:29:11 am »

Quote
Ilwrath: Good luck.  Usually I like to gravity whip and fling limpets in his general direction.  If one gets close he fires
and the others seek onto him.  Then since the Ilwrath will fire pointing towards you when uncloaked, you have to be a real
careful pilot and guess one of his wingtips and shoot away once you get enough limpets onto him.  He'll hurt you some, but you'll hurt him more.  Hint: the Ilwrath's always in the corner the opposite of you.


Actually there's always room for improvement (any suggestions on better tips for battles, bring them on).  

I played against the Ilwrath a whole lot more just now and figured out a way to beat them that brings the fight down to "easy".  You do the gravity whip and limpet (they always come out the front straight ahead when the Ilwrath is cloaked).  Basically you treat it like sonar and just blanket an area and where you see them stop or he uncloaks to fire is where he is at.  Get enough limpets on him he won't be able to move much from that spot, so the cloak becomes useless to him - he ain't moving far from the spot he's in.  Charge up, come in close and fire a limpet so you know his position.  Inevitably the Ilwrath will try to fire on you, but you circle around and get a clear shot on it's side.

Worst news for the VUX against the Ilwrath is the proximity warp on this one oddly enough.  Won 5 battles in a row rather easily on this one after I figured this tactic out compared to about 3-4 out of 5 on the other tactic I posted.  Please keep the ship tactics coming!
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2003, 10:22:59 pm »

Pako: Relax about the ships I mentioned that can outrun Blazer. I know that I forgot to change three to four, I'll fix that, but with the Umgah and Thraddash, I've never given them the chance to use their speed powers, they just die too damn fast.  Tongue (Usually noted, the Thraddash will 'burner charge you with their little pea-shooter, in which case you turn direction and bubble. They fly right through.)
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About the Zapsats
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2003, 01:27:05 pm »

Taken from the source:

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SattPtr->hit_points = 10;

Now you know.
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About people like sage, nic and many more
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2003, 05:21:50 pm »

You always have to know everything don't you?

(unless it is about nic's wife. She is always right and he is wrong) Grin
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Re: About the Zapsats
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2003, 05:47:43 pm »

Quote
SattPtr->hit_points = 10;

Thanks, Sage.
It always felt like more hit_points the satelites have...
So i suppose, they have indefinite fire-power?
Seems okay regarding they must have a generator of their own.

Greetings,
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2003, 06:11:22 pm »

I like the Broodhome. Excellent at long range and pretty good up close.

It only has two real problems:
Not being able to run away from ships with powerful short range weapons due to its slow acceleration and turning speeds
Small fast ships getting in close behind, again due to its slow turning speed, although shards can normally take care of them.
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Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2003, 09:57:51 pm »

Quote
I like the Broodhome.[...]It only has two real problems:
Not being able to run away from ships with powerful short range weapons due to its slow acceleration and turning speeds
Small fast ships getting in close behind, again due to its slow turning speed, although shards can normally take care of them.

A third problem is if I do a rapid burst of shells, the energy recharge time is noticeably slow.

I remember playing SC1 one time where I found all the Precursor enhancements for my Chenjesu. Extra crew, Extra thrusters, Extra turning jets, extra dynamo, extra fuel. I was literally unstoppable.
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More strategy
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2003, 03:45:21 pm »

Mycon Strategy Guide
====================
I'll write up a Mycon strategy list for yall.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Mycon that has full crew, in terms of win
possibility.

Key tactic here is the gravity whip - you will need to do this lots.  As well, as long as you watch yourself, you can run
from a ship and fire - the plasma ball goes around your ship and back.  If you time it right, the opponent needs good
reaction time, and the computer won't have it.  Also be sure to use your crew regen when you have the time.


Ur-Quan: Hard fight.  You need to stay away from the fighters, which is possible.  Don't stay away from them you're done.  But as long as you can send 4 balls into the ship, you can win.

Orz: Easy fight.  Use the running trick, get them to chase you, launch two balls and he's done.

Chmmr: Nasty fight.  Best thing to do is launch two balls, and try to circle if you survive and see if you can send more
plasma balls into him and charge up.  About a 5% chance of winning this one on awesome computer, but it's possible.

Mycon: Basically a skill fight (he with the most skillz wins), but easy enough to win against the computer.  Gravwhip when you get the first chance, block your opponents plasma if you know it will hit.   You'll get ample chance to use your crew regen in this fight.  Set it up so when you get close to send plasma so it will hit the other Mycon.

Earthling: See Mycon description.  This fight is similar - gravwhip, let loose plasma when close.

Ilwrath: Hard fight.  The Ilwrath can go faster than you, and there's no real trick to be able to reliably hit it.  Either
gravwhip and let loose when it decides to fire (you bounce away so he can't hurt you much), or line up close in a line
(Ilwrath is on the opposite side of the screen, draw a line).

Chenjesu: Easy to moderate fight.  Run away and turn, staying in between the firing angles, hold down the fire button until he goes away.  If you can get a grav whip and stay away from the ship, that will help.  The main thing is to keep the DOGIs off of you or you will have a big problem with this one.

VUX: Easy fight, let loose plasma when he comes in close, or if you are fortunate enough to be far away, just keep your
distance and launch away.

Arilou: Hard fight.  I use the running technique and be careful.  Sometimes the AI tries to shoot the plasma to dissipate it and pays the price.  If the Arilou gets close to you you're done.

Shofixti: Easy fight, use the running trick and he'll catch his death.

Mmrnmhrm: Easy to moderate fight.  Gravwhip and time your shots so they run into him.  Use your crew regen as necessary.  Basically you're fighting the Y-form on this one.

Slylandro: hard fight to deal with for the speed but possible.  Usually I either gravwhip lots or use the running trick - but
with the speed it's very easy for this one to burn you.  Only let one plasma ball loose at a time on this one to keep him off
your back just in case.

Pkunk: See Slylandro - same pretty much applies.

Kohr-Ah: difficult but very winnable.  Keep in his firing angles and away from him, and fire one ball at a time to make him
use his corona.  If you can fire two balls and know they'll both have a chance to hit, go for it though.  About a 50% win
rate for me right now on this one - probably #4 on the most difficult list next to the Arilou, Pkunk, and Slylandro.

Druuge: Easy fight.  Stay back out of his sights and let him try to follow you.  Launch plasma 2 at a time and he'll go down.

Supox: Easy fight.  Use the running trick and he'll catch plasma.

Umgah: Easy fight.  Wait for him to zip and come to you (stay moving though).  Fire your plasma close enough to you so you know they'll track when he stops to try to fry you with his anti-matter cone.

Spathi: Easy fight.  Use the running trick.  Hint: watch for when he starts to turn around and then continue chasing you -
this is the best time to send some plasma in the coward's lives.

Utwig: Hard to impossible fight.  You have to discharge the shields.  What I do to make it possible is make Utwig chase me at full speed and then I time it so a plasma ball goes behind him.  He discharges his shield trying to stop it.  The timing needs to be precise to make it work though.  If you make it work and stay away from his gun, all it takes is launching plasma into it at will.

Syreen: Easy fight - use the running trick.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Zebranky food.  Use the running trick.

Yehat: Hard to Impossible.  What I do here is make sure I charge up fully and then go to a full stop...when he comes in and fires, I thrust slightly forward and let two plasma balls loose.  If you time it right, the Yehat blows up and you lose half your crew.  If not, you just lost a ship.

Thraddash: wait for him to come to you, and launch plasma at point blank range.

Melnorme: Easy fight, just stay away from his gun and launch plasma at will.
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