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Author Topic: Injection 1 : M:bots  (Read 5420 times)
Lukipela
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Injection 1 : M:bots
« on: November 10, 2003, 09:59:30 pm »

Ok, I'm going to give this place an injection if nothing else, to stop people from complaining that it's dying rather than simply sleeping. This will be achieved through the creation of a few new topics, all more or less connected to the SC universe. I expect every member of this Forum to post in my new and shiny forums. If you do not, then I will hunt you down with my shiny Synth ship and bubble you. Some of these topics have been discussed before on this board, howver, some may not have been. anyone who feels that i'm simply resurrecting a dead topic is free to say so, but this is for new people as well as old, and we haven't all been here since the beginning you know : Now then, on to the topics:

The M:bots and their reproduction ability.

Why? Why couldn't the M:bots repair their Mother Ark? Are mechanical lifeforms really that much more complex? if man could create Androsynth, shouldn't the M:bots have been able to repair, or rebuild their Command Centre? Your thoughts on mechanic lifeforms and construction, software versus hardware and suchlike will be greatly appreciated.
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Deep-Jiffa
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2003, 10:15:38 pm »

Because the damage was so small and the mother ark is so gentle that only a microscopic race could fix it.(hmm I wonder who...)And after all, m:bots are computers and they don't "know" how to reproduce themself because they don't need to! Who knew that the mother ark will be damage and the precurser won't be around to fix it? Ah yes the eternal1.
And btw: sorry if I got you so mad Tongue
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Lukipela
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2003, 10:19:57 pm »

Mad? not mad, just energic. But I disagree. The are not merely computers, they are supposed to be sentient mechanical being, like AI kind of thing. If a human can think abstractly enough to invent the idea of artificial reconstruction, then wouldn't a mechanical mind do the same, only faster? Or are you saying that you feel that a mechanical mind wiould be faster, yet more limited than a human mind?

As for too small, that's just a matter of constructing smaller things. Given time, we may be able to construct nanobots. I see no reason why it should be different for the M:bots...
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2003, 10:20:20 pm »

IMO, the Mmrnmhrm couldn't repair the Mother Ark because it wasn't their job. The Daktaklakpak were created for this purpose, but when the Precursors didn't come around to check up on them, they suffered bit decay in their programming, so thus gained sentience and decided to do what they did. The Mmrnmhrm were colonists I think, like Commander Hayes said.
Funny that the Chmmr wouldn't mention anything about the Daks...oh well.
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2003, 10:30:11 pm »

Assuming SC3 as canon, it might stand to reason that the Mmrnmhrm might not have even been aware of the Dak's prescence. Then again I don't see why not, since both were supposed to have been created by the same Mother Ark. Being left without a purpose (and perhaps even incomplete programming) would leave this a possibility though.
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Lukipela
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2003, 11:02:06 pm »

So are you saying the M:bots weren't sentient then? That only the Dacs were sentient, and then only because of bit decay? wouldn't true Artificial Intelligence mean that the M:bots were able to think outside the box? And if they were just machines, how could they make a decision to merge with the Chenjesu? That surely wasn't in their programming... And why would the chenjesu choose to merge with mere machines?
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Deep-Jiffa
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2003, 11:40:40 pm »

They are just like the androsynth, how the hell they couldn't reproduce themself, only to clone? Because it is "outside" the box, they need to learn it, and we don't know how well they will learn about a manner they don't need to worry about?
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2003, 12:17:09 am »

I think Deep_Jiffa is on to something here... unlike organic beings like humans which have instincts that drive us to procreate, M:Bots don't.  Therefore, any repair or reproductive capacities would have to be 'learned', which could take a long period of time.  Also, they might have decided there was no need to reproduce according to their original programming, at least until they met other sentient lifeforms and began to see some benefits of reproduction.  It also may depend on what the robots were made out of; there might have been some raw materials which were not readily available in their sphere of influence (a lack of M-Rocks?).
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Lukipela
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2003, 12:20:48 am »

Interswting point. Being constructed beings the M:bots would not have instincts as such. But after the mother ark failed, surely they would see the need, and divert as much time as possible to coming up with an alternative?

Another question to ponder, how could the M:bots "die" Except for in battle? Surely, if they have electronic brains they'd be able to transfer their conciousness into a new place? Or simply copy themselves? Or would that mayhap be too traumatising for their minds?
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2003, 12:56:03 am »

Maybe not traumatic, but you'd then have the Mycon-Deep Children problem come up, where the differing programs would almost compete against each other.  In effect, it'd perpetuate and guarantee bit decay.  

Also, why would the M:Bots see the need?  If they already accomplished whatever mission they were programmed to do, and if there was no threat to them or their existence (at the time) why would they bother, especially if they won't die?  Remember that, with them being machines, they might not necessarily have that overriding drive to live, much less reproduce, and thus death might have meant nothing to them, especially if it didn't affect their 'mission', whatever that might have been.
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2003, 12:58:10 am »

i forgot can someone remind me what the mother-ark really is? obviously it's what created the Mmrnmhrm but is that just a refer to the Precursors.. its been a while since i played the game

if so, both Mycon and Mmrnmhrm are sentient beings created by the Precursors in cause of one biological and one mechanic?

but i'm still not sure about the motherark i know the commander explaines about it somewhere but can someone give a full info about the motherark?

-sly
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2003, 01:00:01 am »

Note that biological reproduction is simplified immensely by the principle of self-similarity. Our components (cells) are largely the same from organ to organ, with a few alterations here and there. Thus we can build cells and then differentiate them later on.

A machine which has little in common with itself on the micro-level from region to region has potential to be MUCH more complicated.
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Lukipela
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2003, 01:11:36 am »

D_999 : Yes, but does that really matter? After all, the only thing they would need to reproduce accurately is the brain. The rest of the stuff can be built to different versions, or whatever they feel like, seeing as they aren't as dependant as we are on not bleeding to death or suffocating. And even if the brain was immensly complicated, might not the different parts of the brain be produced separetly and then put together?

Oatworm: Another interesting point. Perhaps they wouldn't have that need. But is that something that comes with biological life only? I would imagine that any sentient being feels the need to live. And furthermore, we don't know if they had finished what they were meant to do, or if they were failing to do it. And even if they didn't feel the need to procreate, I'd assume that they'd have backups of themselves hidden away in case they were destroyed. Then, it would simply be a case of manufacturing a new body...
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2003, 01:33:53 am »

1) Mmrnmhrm may have a brain which is difficult to analyze. For example, if they use q-bits (information using quantum superposition) in processing, any attempt to debug the process will interfere with the result -- perhaps fatally!
In that case, even if they can reproduce a brain, they may not know a boot sequence, because that was stored in the Mother Ark.

2) It could very well be that though the M:bots are capable of seeing what their current configuration is, they are incapable of devising a method of getting raw materials into that configuration.

M:bots are machines, and they are sentient, but this does not mean that they can instantly solve all mechanical problems. It merely needs to be really difficult.

Also, note that reverse-engineering has the potential to be much much harder than engineering. Building an M:bot given an M:bot is probably much harder than the original task of building some device which fits the technical specifications for an M:bot. For one thing, you are never quite sure that you have it exactly right.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 01:34:15 am by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: Injection 1 : M:bots
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2003, 07:00:41 am »

Or we could just take the lazy, non-thinking solution and say the mother ark was beyond repair.  Grin
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