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Topic: Question about the Chmmr (Read 9900 times)
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AnonomouSpathi
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Spathi? What spathi? You're imagining, hunam.
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In all probability, the ilwrath would've noticed the whole 'hey, look, they're aren't any chenjesu or mrmnhrmn on this starbase!'. They do, afterall, seem to be quite capable of sensing you when you fly in.
But lets assume they went to the starbase, and found it deserted. What can they do? It's not like they know how to get through a slaveshield, so going down there isn't happening. Blowing up an abandoned starbase isn't going to impress anyone. So, they could go and tell the ur-quan. But if that happens, the ur-quan might go and look around, and have no very not nice things to say about how the ilwrath have been handling their duties. The whole 'we were off murdering birdies instead of guarding these starbases like you told us to' likely won't go over to well. So why disturb the status quo?
As for the ur-quan themselves - well, even if they knew, they aren't going to drop everything and go blow up the planet. If anything, the ur-quan show clearly that everything else is second priority to the doctrinal wars. The thraddash attack, and instead of going to the thraddash homeworld, which is practically next door, they just shoot any of them who interfere. None of the thralls seem to have any supervision whatsoever. Heck, even when a human shows up, outside the slave shield in direct violation of the oath of fealty, in a precursor battleship no less, often with a fleet of support vessels, and then begins to blow up every 'quan he find, they STILL don't take time off to go check on the humans. Heck, they don't move even if the human has a dynarri on the ship, which is like the ur-quan equivalent of satan himself.
To be blunt, if repeated, vicious attacks by a human commanding a fleet of ships built by their own slaves, on board a precursor ship outfitted for combat, and carrying the greatest evil the universe has ever known isn't enough to make the ur-quan take a day off, an abandoned starbase probably ain't gonna make their to do list.
Quick edit:
Just got to remember, it's a question of priorities. If you've ever spoke with a kzer-za after the doctrinal wars end, you know that they really, really don't want to see every race in the universe slaughtered. Letting the chmmr merge and break the shield would be a failure of their place as great stewards of the universe. Letting every race get slaughtered by the kohr-ah because they lost the war would be a much, much greater failure. Risking a smaller failure to focus on preventing the greatest failure possible isn't such bad tactical thinking.
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« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 07:47:07 am by AnonomouSpathi »
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JSB
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Third term in the slave agreement was that the enslaved race is not allowed to have spaceships. The Ilwrath captain that enters Sol once you've investigated the moonbase says that this is 'in direct violation of the Oath of Fealty', I think.
They were busy with the Doctrinal Conflict (which also might mean they did not check the starbase regularly).
They probably negletted the mainteinance of all starbases, judging by the condition of Earth's, and there's nothing to suggest that they would have bothered to check on them otherwise (on a second thought, did they maintain the Syreen starbase? That is near enought to them that they could have done that, as opposed to the Earthling and Chenjesu/Mrhrwhatever starbases that were on the other side of the quadrand).
The Ur-Quan would unlikely care that some race went from a starbase to their planet. That doesn't necessarily mean they can come out again.
Not necessarily, but if I were the Ur-Quan, I'd check to make sure. The slave shields were supposed to be unpenetratable without Ur-Quan level tech (then again, the Spathi managed to slave shield themselves, so...).
I feel that points 1 and 4 are valid, and that the Ur-Quan most likely didn't know about the sun device.
I find myself agreeing also with AnonomouSpathi's points.
Also, I haven't talked to the Chmmr myself (got bored of the normal game mode before getting to that point, and I know most of the plot anyways since I've done a lot of reading in the forums), but did they indeed know of the Doctrinal Conflict?
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« Last Edit: December 02, 2003, 04:17:23 pm by JSB »
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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Well, the Spathi are clearly smart enough to duplicate a slave shield, because they DO duplicate one.
Arguing to the contrary is like saying, "There is no conceivable power source strong enough that it could power the Death Star's superlaser, therefore the Death Star's superlaser can't fire." despite that we see such a thing happen in the movie (note, someone I know in a different forum made this argument).
As far as space ships and the slave shield agreement:
Suppose it was just being off-planet that was a violation. Not having a space ship.
It does seem that the Ur-Quan confiscated the syreen ships, but confiscating the military hardware is not exactly the same as saying you aren't allowed to have vehicles capable of traversing space... as long as you don't actually use them to traverse space.
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JonoPorter
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Don't mess with the US.
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IT does seem that slave shielded races are not allowed to have ships except for maybe small shuttles ( Landers ) that cant go from planet to planet. otherwise earths starbase would not have needed radioactives.
Now here is a few other possible plot holes.
If they are not allowed to have ships why are the star bases able to make them?
and why can earths starbase be able to make ships when the syreens apparently cant?
and why didnt the earths starbase make a ship to go get the radioactives themselves?
and why would anyone be willing to join into alliance with a group named the empire of BioSlayer?
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Culture20
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As for the ur-quan themselves - well, even if they knew, they aren't going to drop everything and go blow up the planet. If anything, the ur-quan show clearly that everything else is second priority to the doctrinal wars. The thraddash attack, and instead of going to the thraddash homeworld, which is practically next door, they just shoot any of them who interfere. None of the thralls seem to have any supervision whatsoever. Heck, even when a human shows up, outside the slave shield in direct violation of the oath of fealty, in a precursor battleship no less, often with a fleet of support vessels, and then begins to blow up every 'quan he find, they STILL don't take time off to go check on the humans. Heck, they don't move even if the human has a dynarri on the ship, which is like the ur-quan equivalent of satan himself.
To be blunt, if repeated, vicious attacks by a human commanding a fleet of ships built by their own slaves, on board a precursor ship outfitted for combat, and carrying the greatest evil the universe has ever known isn't enough to make the ur-quan take a day off, an abandoned starbase probably ain't gonna make their to do list.
That explains why the Ur-Quan don't notice or care, but it's not the most important issue. Unless the Ur-Quan told the Chenjesu that they should remain on the planet "because our genocidal bretheren are coming, and we won't be able to watch you for about 24 years.", then they should have expected the Ur-Quan to make regular checkups.
That reminds me: the 2nd Doctrinal war must have started sometime between 3 and 8 years before the start of SC2 (the Earth station had been getting regular resupplies until 8 years ago). That means that the Chenjesu somehow fooled the Ur-Quan for at least 12 years before the Kohr-Ah showed up. Anyone willing to make an SC2 timeline so we can sort things like this out?
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Spurk
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and why can earths starbase be able to make ships when the syreens apparently cant?
Well, first off, the Earth starbase is the center of operations for your empire, and all allies send their captains there, not the Gaia starbase. Having all your allies send their captains to every friendly starbase you discover could cause them to spread their captains thin. Hence their inability to build non-Syreen ships.
Second, the Syreens may not have the crew to recrew your ship (and even if they do, their crew may be too much of a ... distraction). Hence their conceivable inability to recrew you.
Third, the Syreens have presumably been as neglected as Earth's starbase and may not have the resources to produce fuel or upgrades for your ship (or to build any of their ships) anyway. And since you don't offload minerals to them, they can't do much for you.
It would be neat though, if you could offload minerals at their base and then have them refuel you, upgrade your ship, or build Penetrators.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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No, the real reason only the earth starbase can build stuff is because you brought only one set of precursor fabrication tech with you from Vela.
Remember the beginning of the game where Hayes takes a couple-week break to incorporate the precursor tech into the starbase?
Yeah, now you remember.
But you should still be able to refuel (though not recrew) at Betelgeuse.
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JonoPorter
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I think i know how the chmmr knew they would be safe for the amount of years they needed.
They spoke the words.
and the ur-quan answered
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Culture20
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Thraddash Flower Child
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Bioslayer wins a gold star! The more I read through the Chmmr dialog on PNF, the more I think that's correct. Unfortunately, they don't tell you to say the words like the Pkunk and Melnorme do, but the Chmmr do know about the Kohr-Ah (possibly even if you haven't met the Kohr-Ah yet). So, they knew the Kohr-Ah were coming, but didn't know that it would be so soon. They deduced that the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za would stay in the area for a while, but would eventually continue on their Path of Now and Forever, leaving the Chenjesu and MmrnMhrm to do whatever they pleased.
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Defender
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what intrests me, is that the hybrid race had to be planned out, before they went under the shield. if i remember correctly, commander hayes says he has no way to contact the earths surface. so what ever plans the m-bots and crystal dudes made, had to have been planned out before they got shielded. maybe they thought of this as as a backup plan, in case we lost. wich we did. so when do you think they came to the conclusion that combining races, would benefit the stagnet m-bots, and also unleash the avatar, to match in battle, the ur-quan? makes me wonder why they felt it neccesary to keep us humans out of the loop. what else are they hiding?
parinoid thoughts by:
~DEFIANT
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« Last Edit: December 04, 2003, 07:24:25 am by DEFIANT »
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Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
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Deep Jiffa Owns j00!
Really? Umm Maybe every races' oath of fealty is different, and the Ur-Quan were willing to let the Syreen have a Spacestation just for fun, but it didn't have to do any refueling or repairing of hierarchy ships. More likely: It can, but Earth is a better strategic point to amass a force. Beatlgeuse is a little too close to the Ur-Quan sphere.