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Author Topic: Webcomics  (Read 12929 times)
Michael Martin
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2004, 11:41:24 am »

Mark Shallow's other comics are fun, too.  I've read Adventurers! for quite some time.
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Death 999
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2004, 06:54:25 pm »

Sage: You need to go find the elemental crystals.

Ardam: ok, so we get the four crystals of earth, air...

Sage: four? Those aren't the elements. You need to get the crystals of Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, Beryllium, Boron, Carbon...
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guesst
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2004, 06:12:32 pm »

Quote
Even though I mentioned it already, and it has been mentioned by others as well, I'd like to make plug Sluggy Freelance once more. It is the single greatest comic on the net. And the current storyline is absolutely insane...


I can't stand SF's artwork. If I can't look at it I can't read it. It may be the best written piece of crud on the interweb, but I just can't read it.
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Death 999
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2004, 07:06:24 pm »

If you're looking at the first few weeks, then yeah. He used to be incredibly meticulous before he started, then he realized it was taking two weeks to do a panel. So he intentionally let everything slip to the level where he basically wasn't worrying about the art; he was worrying about the jokes and the story.

Then once he got that down he began to ratched up the art level a bit, though it's still clearly cartoony.

But if you think that's anywhere close to the worst art on the web, you have been leading an exceptionally sheltered existence. Try going to sluggy.keenspace.com instead. OW.
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Lukipela
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2004, 09:29:38 pm »

And if you looka at the newer SF comics, you'd be amazed. They are absolutely gorgeous.
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 04:38:32 pm »

mine are:

Sluggy Freelance (best story line here! Although i wonder what will become of the DOP, or Overlord Bun-Bun)
Calvin and Hobbes
Garfield
Foxtrot
Ziggy

stopped reading the rest regularly, due to missing time.

Enjoy!
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Lukipela
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2004, 11:23:23 pm »

Quote


I can't stand SF's artwork. If I can't look at it I can't read it. It may be the best written piece of crud on the interweb, but I just can't read it.



Quote
Oh lordy...I just about died when I saw this... Sluggy Freelance delivers.



"It's Habanero, your favorite."
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Pnqr Sauce Beer
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2004, 11:17:47 pm »

Yeah, i remember that one, i liked it!

(Like all these "traditional" christmas gifts).

Care for a beer?

I have a crate of german beer here, take a bottle and sit down...

(For thos of you who need to ask: It is Rothaus Tannenzäpfle)
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Orz Brain
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2004, 06:06:03 pm »

The Orz wish to say that Sluggy Freelance is a very *happy camper*!
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2004, 08:33:24 pm »

Okay, give me a link to the Sluggy freelance you're reading, because the one I've been trying it out now for a week (and reading some of the archives) I gotta say, I just don't get it. It does not interest me in the least. I'm really trying, guys. Is there more than one Sluggy out there, because the one I'm reading is not webcomic gold.
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Death 999
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2004, 11:25:53 pm »

www.sluggy.com
not
sluggy.keenspace.com

The beginning is not extremely good. For one thing, it was early in the era of webcomics, so what was expected had yet to be defined. Look at the early stuff at www.goats.com and you'll see what I mean.
Also as I said earlier, to begin with, the art was intentionally made with low quality so the artist would not obsess (his earlier work had been meticulous... and way too time consuming).

What do you look for in a webcomic? What IS webcomic gold?
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guesst
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2004, 08:19:59 pm »

Quote
www.sluggy.com
not
sluggy.keenspace.com

The beginning is not extremely good. For one thing, it was early in the era of webcomics, so what was expected had yet to be defined. Look at the early stuff at www.goats.com and you'll see what I mean.
Also as I said earlier, to begin with, the art was intentionally made with low quality so the artist would not obsess (his earlier work had been meticulous... and way too time consuming).

What do you look for in a webcomic? What IS webcomic gold?


Well heck. I just made a long post with links to all my favorate web comics and accidently click on one of the links I was looking up in my favorates and wiped it all out.

Lemme start again.

But different this time.

Web Comic Gold are the web comics that win in every department. They need to
  • An effort in the art work. Set your frame up so that it's easy to see what's going on. If two characters are talking, close up on them. If one is talking, head and shoulders shot. Save the long shots for action. Sluggy's problem is that every frame is a long shot which gives an overall "busy" look to a entirely too small format. They either need to simplify the artwork to clean up the frames, do less long shots, or make the frames bigger.
  • Update every time they say they will, prompt and on time. I don't care that you have a cold or that your mother just died. If you don't update when you say you will, that is a major violation of my trust. This may be a free thing, but believe it or not, regular updaters get more long term visitors which turns into more fans which turns into more swag sold at the online store.
  • Each comic should have a self contained gag. Inside jokes are okay, and while long time readers may laugh at the subtle nuances of a running gag, if you don't hit someone on the head with something at the same time (or some other simple little gag), you'll just annoy the newbs, who in turn won't stick around and who, in turn, won't become fans.


Well, that's about it. Sluggy, one out of three. PVP, three out of three. Penny-Arcade, three out of three. Sam and Fuzzy, three out of three.

I gotta go, but I may say more on this later.
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Death 999
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2004, 12:29:59 am »

Quote
An effort in the art work. Set your frame up so that it's easy to see what's going on. If two characters are talking, close up on them. If one is talking, head and shoulders shot. Save the long shots for action. Sluggy's problem is that every frame is a long shot which gives an overall "busy" look to a entirely too small format. They either need to simplify the artwork to clean up the frames, do less long shots, or make the frames bigger.


THAT's your art issue???
Huh
Sure, the four-or-so panel format is a restriction. he tends not to change scope. But I don't get where this too-busy issue is coming from, unless both you're looking at the very early comics only, where backgrounds ended up being more prominent (especially http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=970827 and http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=971001), or an artistic purist who would probably disapprove of the very comics you said were gold.

Quote
Update every time they say they will, prompt and on time. I don't care that you have a cold or that your mother just died. If you don't update when you say you will, that is a major violation of my trust. This may be a free thing, but believe it or not, regular updaters get more long term visitors which turns into more fans which turns into more swag sold at the online store.


I presume this is the "one out of three" that you say Sluggy has.

Quote
Each comic should have a self contained gag. Inside jokes are okay, and while long time readers may laugh at the subtle nuances of a running gag, if you don't hit someone on the head with something at the same time (or some other simple little gag), you'll just annoy the newbs, who in turn won't stick around and who, in turn, won't become fans.


This is a bizarre constraint. Seriously. There is a medium, of serial cartoons distributed by web site. This is called 'webcomic'.
Not every comic needs to be a daily gag comic. Take, for example, the newspaper. Think of For Better or for Worse, or Funky Winkerbean, let alone Prince Valiant, or Mary Worth or Apartment 4-G or Mark Trail. Heck, even Calvin and Hobbes sometimes got quite serious and very unfunny, and in the dailies frequently required familiarity with the situation that could only have been earned by reading the previous days' strips.

On the web, this problem is solved by the ARCHIVES. If someone recommends a strip to me I never bother reading the present strip, I start from the beginning, read until I lose interest or I come to the end, and then stop. Having every day make sense out of context is completely irrelevant.
Furthermore, there is a "New Viewers click here to view the Sluggy Viewer Guide!" link prominently placed above the comic.

Sluggy at its best -- Gwynn turned around -- made NO SENSE to a noob. So what? if it hadn't done that, it would not have been a great comic.

Sometimes people link straight to a strip, but it invariably is one chosen to make sense out of context. If it doesn't, it's the poster's fault, not the comic's.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2004, 12:32:02 am by Death_999 » Logged
FalconMWC
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2004, 07:56:54 pm »

Should you not just link to the beginning strip and let the noobie read from there?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2004, 07:57:10 pm by FalconMWC » Logged
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Re: Webcomics
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2004, 06:57:56 pm »

Quote
THAT's your art issue???
Huh


There's more to it than that. What was above was a knee jerk reaction due to time constraints. But that's a part of it.

Some webcomics have 2 people working on them. An artist who's concern is making the comic pretty, a big plus for the newbs, and a writer, important for keeping people around. Sluggy only has a writer who would benifit from an artist's help, in my opinion.

Quote
(Concerning timely updates)I presume this is the "one out of three" that you say Sluggy has.


And don't get me wrong, it's a big, big one. Sluggy's done well so far not to appeal to the newbs, and yet still keep chugging.


[/quote](Concerning "a gag in every comic") This is a bizarre constraint. Seriously. There is a medium, of serial cartoons distributed by web site. This is called 'webcomic'.
Not every comic needs to be a daily gag comic. Take, for example, the newspaper. Think of For Better or for Worse, or Funky Winkerbean, let alone Prince Valiant, or Mary Worth or Apartment 4-G or Mark Trail. Heck, even Calvin and Hobbes sometimes got quite serious and very unfunny, and in the dailies frequently required familiarity with the situation that could only have been earned by reading the previous days' strips.[/quote]

So, your justification is that for a webcomic it's okay to be one part comic, three parts soap opera? It's still a comic. The syndicated comics you mentioned I for the most part don't frequent. I view them as dross. For Better or for Worse, for me, is an on again, off again sort of relationship. When they get all sappy, I kinda gloss over them until they go back to being "better" more than "worse." Calvin and Hobbes got sappy once in a while, but it eventually became a "Awww" moment, and they kept a gag in every strip. Even with a long running story line, there was something to giggle about without reading the back story.

Quote
On the web, this problem is solved by the ARCHIVES.


Yeah, I thought I mentioned that. I tried to do the archives thing, which gave me my deep criticism of the artwork, and I had a hard time "getting" the gags. So that didn't help Sluggy's case much.

But as I said, I'm trying diligently not to dislike Sluggy. I mean, you all can't be wrong at once, right? And I have to admit that I don't hate it now. Still, not web comic gold IMHO, but not deplorable any more.

My whole issue, and this is the end of what I'll say on Sluggy, is that it fails entirely to attract newbs, which in my mind is a bad thing. Abviously Sluggy has compensated for this and has been managing the webcomic thing for a long time, so dispite my argument, they must be doing something right, even if I don't "get" it.
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