|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes! (Read 16828 times)
|
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
 Offline
Gender: 
Posts: 3874
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
|
I know they do but, I don't know why they dislike the US.
They don't like U.S. POLICY. The news loves to glomp the unusual people who are so confused as to personally dislike us.
The USA saved them kinda in the war of 1812 (The British might have attacked the french when they were done with us).
Let's check out some history here...
The war of 1812 was substantially started because the British were boarding ships at sea and claiming Americans as British citizens, which rendered them to be eligible to draft into the British navy.
The Brits really needed the manpower because...
Napoleon was taking over Europe.
1812 was the year he attacked Moscow (he lost, hence the 1812 overture being a Russian celebratory piece, not a French one).
In 1812, France was not in need of rescue. At the time, it was the most powerful empire in history.
Not to mention that the USA helped save them in WWI. Then in WWII, USA saved French, English and many other countries from Hitler
in WWI, the Entente would have beaten the allies sooner or later. It just would have resulted in a lot more death without the Americans giving the support they did.
in WWII, our role was much more substantial. But we didn't join the war in 1939, when Germany completely took over France. We waited two more years, while the Luftwaffe was gradually wiping out London. When did we actually join? We waited until we were attacked by the Japanese.
So what do they have to complain about when it comes to the USA?
Why don't you try listening to what their complaints are instead of declaring them invalid on the basis of events which took place 55+ years ago?
Here is a challenge -- find five distinct criticisms of the United States from Europeans. Explain them to us. Once you have clearly understood them, THEN you can begin refuting them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 3874
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
|
Let's see... is France an ally of the US today? YES.
But... but... they didn't attack Iraq with us! They said we were wrong to do that!
Look, just about everyone outside the U.S. thought attacking Iraq was a bad idea. The French had an obligation AS OUR ALLIES to speak their mind and tell us when they think we're wrong.
If we ignore that advice, even if they are in general our allies, we cannot reasonably expect them to throw troops and lives at a project they consider to be wrong and stupid.
As for the differences between the French perception of America and Britain:
First, it isn't an accident that it's called the 'American-led coalition in Iraq'. If Britain had wanted to go and we didn't, they would not have gone. If we wanted to go and they didn't, we would have gone.
Second, Bush's rhetoric harkens back to his days as a cheerleader. Meanwhile, Blair's rhetoric sounded more like attempts to lay out an argument. If you have not already chosen to agree with W, he is terribly unconvincing. So, the French might be getting the impression that Blair is at least thinking about the problems, while W made his choice long ago.
But once again, I'm not the French; ask them yourself!
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 13, 2004, 07:56:16 pm by Death_999 »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FalconMWC
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1059
Avatar Courtesy of Slyrendro
|
Good explanation - I just need to ad one thing.
I am not referring to the invaion of Iraq. That in many peoples minds was a mistake. Consider we are not finding WOMD as well as chemcal and bio weapons which Bush said we would find - I leaves the resons for the invasion iffy. No doubt about that - And you are right, any truthful ally who does not agree with the USA should speak is mind truthfully.
But I am talking about before the invasion of Iraq - from what read and hear,there was still a lot of friction going on. Why? - I don't think that they disagreed with the US rules/regs then.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 3874
We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
|
Well, the debate over whether to invade Iraq WAS before the invasion of Iraq. Before we were talking about it, friction was much less.
Of course, they weren't a big fan of the axis of evil, the with us or against us, and so forth that issued from our head of state. So simplistic and un-refined, so un-French. How quaitly manichaean, except he's in charge of the most powerful country in the world.
So I guess there could have been some hostility. Perhaps it had to do with Kyoto and his brand of globablization, etc.. Once again, I'm not them. And of course they are almost certainly not homogeneous in their reasons.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lukipela
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 3620
The Ancient One
|
And once more D_999 beats me to the point, and far more eloquently than I could have done it as well.
On a side note, does anyone better versed in histroy than me know anything about the Soviets of WW2? I know they recieved help from the US, but I'm not quite sure how much, a signiificant amount or just symbolic?
The reason to bring it up is that the Soviets did turn the course of the war against Germany as well. Stalingrad, and other less known similar battles forced to Germans to fall back.
Of course, without the US we might well have ended up speaking russian instead, so it may well be a moot point.
Also, thanks D_999. I tend to forget every now and then that the US isn't as filled with idiots as our media tries to make it out as. Especially since so many odf the US cirtizens I run into on the Net, or in life come off as popmpous jerks. It's people like you, a_s_b and Nic; calm, rational and intelligent folks that renew my faith in mankind.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 05:33:55 pm by Lukipela »
|
Logged
|
What's up doc?
|
|
|
|
|
Lukipela
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 3620
The Ancient One
|
Nic's account didn't get deleted by accident, he deleted it himself. He is gone, and will be sorely missed.
I know you're a kid Falcon, and don't worry, I'm not trying to pass judgement on you. Actually, I rather like you, and I think you have potential for a lot of things. That's why it's good that you're here, where folks like D_999 can give you another point of view, and perhaps explain thigns you are wonderign about, just like he is now.
In my mind, that's one of the more important things with the whole internet experience. To be able to discuss with people you would never otherwise meet. To be given new insights into other places and cultures, into other ways of being and living. That's what it's all about, really.
EDIT: Just wanted to underline this:
Second, Bush's rhetoric harkens back to his days as a cheerleader. Meanwhile, Blair's rhetoric sounded more like attempts to lay out an argument. If you have not already chosen to agree with W, he is terribly unconvincing. So, the French might be getting the impression that Blair is at least thinking about the problems, while W made his choice long ago.
As someone who is neither english nor american, I have watched speeches held by both Blair and Bush. And D_999 is defiently right here. Blair holds speeches. He is a great orator, especially seems he makes you feel that he believes everything he says. Wether or not this is true, his arguments come across very well, and can stop even avid peace fundamentalists in their tracks for a while. In a way, he is remniscent of Mannerheim ,the man who led Finalnd during WW2, he comes across with the same force of personality.
Bush on the other hand, rants. He use long, overly complex sentences, and the same charisma just isn't there. His arguments are only for people who believe in him. He does not give a good impression at all.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 07:16:32 pm by Lukipela »
|
Logged
|
What's up doc?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FalconMWC
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1059
Avatar Courtesy of Slyrendro
|
How many "things" like this happened. Because, maybe the ice cream man was having a bad day and need to "let it out". And - How can they make a half decent pizza without it! (Pepperoni)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
zixyer
Zebranky food
Offline
Posts: 22
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
|
Having a bad day isn't an excuse for that degree of assholeary.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FalconMWC
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 1059
Avatar Courtesy of Slyrendro
|
People in America or England do stuff like that! - Though not as many times. Like in USA I was trying to buy something, I got my purchase and headed to the cash register. I was the only one in the shop besides him. He was looking at his watch and when I started handing hime my purchase (which was 3 things) he started on them. Then his watch beeped and said that the store had closed. So I could not buy them. He then kicked me out of the store.
Point? Well - There are people who just try to annoy you all over the world. Now whether or not there is more in france is debatible.
O - Bioslayer. Maybe he did that because you were a american?
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 05:42:45 pm by FalconMWC »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
|
|
|
|
|
- Well maybe I will be there someday (am am only 15 so I have time)! :-/