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Author Topic: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!  (Read 13588 times)
Death 999
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2004, 07:36:34 pm »

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I know they do but, I don't know why they dislike the US.


They don't like U.S. POLICY. The news loves to glomp the unusual people who are so confused as to personally dislike us.

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The USA saved them kinda in the war of 1812 (The British might have attacked the french when they were done with us).


Let's check out some history here...
The war of 1812 was substantially started because the British were boarding ships at sea and claiming Americans as British citizens, which rendered them to be eligible to draft into the British navy.
The Brits really needed the manpower because...
Napoleon was taking over Europe.
1812 was the year he attacked Moscow (he lost, hence the 1812 overture being a Russian celebratory piece, not a French one).
In 1812, France was not in need of rescue. At the time, it was the most powerful empire in history.

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Not to mention that the USA helped save them in WWI. Then in WWII, USA saved French, English and many other countries from Hitler


in WWI, the Entente would have beaten the allies sooner or later. It just would have resulted in a lot more death without the Americans giving the support they did.

in WWII, our role was much more substantial. But we didn't join the war in 1939, when Germany completely took over France. We waited two more years, while the Luftwaffe was gradually wiping out London. When did we actually join? We waited until we were attacked by the Japanese.

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So what do they have to complain about when it comes to the USA?


Why don't you try listening to what their complaints are instead of declaring them invalid on the basis of events which took place 55+ years ago?

Here is a challenge -- find five distinct criticisms of the United States from Europeans. Explain them to us. Once you have clearly understood them, THEN you can begin refuting them.
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FalconMWC
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2004, 07:37:39 pm »

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I'm starting to see the downside of having a offtopic forum in this thread. How do you explain what people don't want to hear. I'm in a hurry now, but I'll be back later with some fun and interesting facts about the US, mighty saviour of the world, and the evil villain France. I realise that I may be wasting my time trying to work this through to you, but I am going to do my best to try.


Hold on a sec. I am not proclaiming the USA to be saviour of the world. (at least I don't think I am) Heck - If it weren't for France there would be no USA period. Britain would have crushed the USA in the revolutionary war if France would not have helped out. What I am trying to say is that after all the two countries have been through it is a shame that we are not "better allies". The USA and France have saved each other 3 times total. That is what I call "friendship" on BOTH sides. Now what I want to know is were that "friendship broke off. Because oboviusly the USA and the French are not not he best of terms.

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Especially since I feel there might be some hope for Falcon yet.

Glad to hear it!


EDIT: Regarding D_999's message. Then why does England like us and the French don't. But the French are more friendly with England than us.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2004, 07:44:04 pm by FalconMWC » Logged
Death 999
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2004, 07:48:55 pm »

Let's see... is France an ally of the US today? YES.

But... but... they didn't attack Iraq with us! They said we were wrong to do that!

Look, just about everyone outside the U.S. thought attacking Iraq was a bad idea. The French had an obligation AS OUR ALLIES to speak their mind and tell us when they think we're wrong.
If we ignore that advice, even if they are in general our allies, we cannot reasonably expect them to throw troops and lives at a project they consider to be wrong and stupid.

As for the differences between the French perception of America and Britain:
First, it isn't an accident that it's called the 'American-led coalition in Iraq'. If Britain had wanted to go and we didn't, they would not have gone. If we wanted to go and they didn't, we would have gone.
Second, Bush's rhetoric harkens back to his days as a cheerleader. Meanwhile, Blair's rhetoric sounded more like attempts to lay out an argument. If you have not already chosen to agree with W, he is terribly unconvincing. So, the French might be getting the impression that Blair is at least thinking about the problems, while W made his choice long ago.

But once again, I'm not the French; ask them yourself!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2004, 07:56:16 pm by Death_999 » Logged
FalconMWC
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2004, 08:01:41 pm »

Good explanation - I just need to ad one thing.

I am not referring to the invaion of Iraq. That in many peoples minds was a mistake. Consider we are not finding WOMD as well as chemcal and bio weapons which Bush said we would find - I leaves the resons for the invasion iffy. No doubt about that - And you are right, any truthful ally who does not agree with the USA should speak is mind truthfully.  


But I am talking about before the invasion of Iraq - from what read and hear,there was still a lot of friction going on. Why? - I don't think that they disagreed with the US rules/regs  then.  
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Death 999
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2004, 09:59:52 pm »

Well, the debate over whether to invade Iraq WAS before the invasion of Iraq. Before we were talking about it, friction was much less.

Of course, they weren't a big fan of the axis of evil, the with us or against us, and so forth that issued from our head of state. So simplistic and un-refined, so un-French. How quaitly manichaean, except he's in charge of the most powerful country in the world.

So I guess there could have been some hostility. Perhaps it had to do with Kyoto and his brand of globablization, etc.. Once again, I'm not them. And of course they are almost certainly not homogeneous in their reasons.
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2004, 05:20:32 pm »

Americans seem to have a general dis-like of French. Perhaps it's the bad name french canadians give the European French. Maybe it's because of their roll in WWII or maybe just because the French kiss better, have better wine and really cool bread.
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2004, 05:32:34 pm »

And once more D_999 beats me to the point, and far more eloquently than I could have done it as well.

On a side note, does anyone better versed in histroy than me know anything about the Soviets of WW2? I know they recieved help from the US, but I'm not quite sure how much, a signiificant amount or just symbolic?

The reason to bring it up is that the Soviets did turn the course of the war against Germany as well. Stalingrad, and other less known similar battles forced to Germans to fall back.

Of course, without the US we might well have ended up speaking russian instead, so it may well be a moot point.

Also, thanks D_999. I tend to forget every now and then that the US isn't as filled with idiots as our media tries to make it out as. Especially since so many odf the US cirtizens I run into on the Net, or in life come off as popmpous jerks. It's people like you, a_s_b and Nic; calm, rational and intelligent folks that renew my faith in mankind.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 05:33:55 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2004, 05:43:58 pm »

Quote

Also, thanks D_999. I tend to forget every now and then that the US isn't as filled with idiots as our media tries to make it out as. Especially since so many odf the US cirtizens I run into on the Net, or in life come off as popmpous jerks. It's people like you, a_s_b and Nic; calm, rational and intelligent folks that renew my faith in mankind.


...and folks unlike me!  Wink - Well maybe I will be there someday (am am only 15 so I have time)!   :-/


EDIT: Speaking of nic, I think his account got deleted. He is not in the top 15 posters, or by letter either.  
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 05:50:48 pm by FalconMWC » Logged
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2004, 05:58:59 pm »

Nic's account didn't get deleted by accident, he deleted it himself. He is gone, and will be sorely missed.

I know you're a kid Falcon, and don't worry, I'm not trying to pass judgement on you. Actually, I rather like you, and I think you have potential for a lot of things. That's why it's good that you're here, where folks like D_999 can give you another point of view, and perhaps explain thigns you are wonderign about, just like he is now.

In my mind, that's one of the more important things with the whole internet experience. To be able to discuss with people you would never otherwise meet. To be given new insights into other places and cultures, into other ways of being and living. That's what it's all about, really.

EDIT: Just wanted to underline this:

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Second, Bush's rhetoric harkens back to his days as a cheerleader. Meanwhile, Blair's rhetoric sounded more like attempts to lay out an argument. If you have not already chosen to agree with W, he is terribly unconvincing. So, the French might be getting the impression that Blair is at least thinking about the problems, while W made his choice long ago.


As someone who is neither english nor american, I have watched speeches held by both Blair and Bush. And D_999 is defiently right here. Blair holds speeches. He is a great orator, especially seems he makes you feel that he believes everything he says. Wether or not this is true, his arguments come across very well, and can stop even avid peace fundamentalists in their tracks for a while. In a way, he is remniscent of Mannerheim ,the man who led Finalnd during WW2, he comes across with the same force of personality.

Bush on the other hand, rants. He use long, overly complex sentences, and the same charisma just isn't there. His arguments are only for people who believe in him. He does not give a good impression at all.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 07:16:32 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2004, 10:37:52 pm »

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Have you been to France?

Yes and not only their words were full of hatred so were their actions.

The rest of Europe was a lot friendlier but I did not get that welcoming feeling expect in the Netherlands and in Switzerland. Also Switzerland had some of the best tap water in Europe. But I still like Colorado’s tap water better. I also like free refills in America. But the spicy salami pizza in Europe was really good. Since pepperoni does not exist there.
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2004, 11:08:28 pm »

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Yes and not only their words were full of hatred so were their actions.


Elaborate. What did they do, what did you do, what had you done before that, what had they done before that, and so on. Did they fire weapons at you or try to kill you?

Also, no pepperoni? How is that possible?
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2004, 03:23:21 am »

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Elaborate. What did they do, what did you do, what had you done before that, what had they done before that, and so on. Did they fire weapons at you or try to kill you?

It started to rain and we decided to go to a ice cream pallor to seek cover. After we paid for the ice-cream the owner pulled back the overhanging roof thing. Apparently they like our money but hate us. There are other incidents but I don’t feel up to describing them all.

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Also, no pepperoni? How is that possible?

If you ask for pepperoni you get a lot of peppers.

what realy got me was having to pay for road side restrooms. that to me was Bizarre.

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Americans seem to have a general dis-like of French. Perhaps it's the bad name french canadians give the European French. Maybe it's because of their roll in WWII or maybe just because the French kiss better, have better wine and really cool bread.

YES you hit on the nail!
America is jealous of French bread and we can NEVER forgive them of making bread better then ours!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 03:32:20 am by BioSlayer » Logged

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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2004, 03:28:03 am »

How many "things" like this happened. Because, maybe the ice cream man was having a bad day and need to "let it out".  And - How can they make a half decent pizza without it! (Pepperoni)
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2004, 01:53:05 pm »

Having a bad day isn't an excuse for that degree of assholeary.
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Re: 'Al-Qaeda' Got nukes!
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2004, 05:42:15 pm »

People in America or England do stuff like that! - Though not as many times. Like in USA I was trying to buy something, I got my purchase and headed to the cash register.  I was the only one in the shop besides him. He was looking at his watch and when I started handing hime my purchase (which was 3 things) he started on them. Then his watch beeped and said that the store had closed. So I could not buy them. He then kicked me out of the store.

Point? Well - There are people who just try to annoy you all over the world. Now whether or not there is more in france is debatible.

O - Bioslayer. Maybe he did that because you were a american?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2004, 05:42:45 pm by FalconMWC » Logged
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